First Custom Build...Need some advice....

F

Fried One

n00b
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
25
Hi Guys,
My first post on this forum. I'm in the process of my first water cooling build. Been using AIO coolers for many years now. I am stuck on what size hard tubing to go with. What is the recommended best pipe size.
I will need 2 fittings per component. For now I will just be running a CPU block. GPU block will come later. So 6x rigid compression fittings. I'll probably throw in 2 or 3 - 90 degree fittings.
What do you guys recommend for coolant. Looking for a white under UV lighting. Do I need distilled water with UV dye and a UV light. Not too clear on that aspect yet. I also like Mayhem's blue color. I have read that some dyes separate over time.
What are your recommendations on radiator fans. I was looking at EK-Vardar EVO 140ER Black (500-2000 rpm) or Corsair's static pressure fans.
I guess for now I need to decide on pipe size so I can order the Bits Power fittings.
Thank you guys, any suggestions will be great.
So far my parts are:
Case: Corsair 750D
CPU Block: EK Velocity Copper + Plexi - Intel
Rad: EK Coolstream PE 360 Triple 120
Pump/ Res : EK Quantum Kinetic TBE 200 D5 RGB
 
I cant speak to hard tubing, as I am still using soft tubing, because it is so much more convenient to deal with, I already have all the fittings, and I haven't had time to figure out the bending process and all that, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the same thing applies to hard tubes as does to soft ones.

Within reason, tube size does not matter much at all. There was a sticky in this forum for years (but I cant find it now) where a member did comprehensive flow testing with a variety of different tube sizes and found no significant difference between them.

I would buy what is more convenient to work with for you, what parts you can get at the best price (tubes and fittings) and what you find aesthetically pleasing, because the diameter just isn't all that relevant. Any of the common ones will perform just fine.

I run tubing with 3/8" ID and it works just fine. 1/2" and 5/8" used to also be popular in soft tubes. Not much if any performance difference between them.

These days the measurements seem to have shifted to mm. 3/8" is 9.5mm, 1/2" is 12.7mm and 5/8" is 15.9mm.

So, I'd argue anything between 9mm and 16mm ID will be just fine from a performance perspective.

I have no idea which sizes are easier to find parts for, or to bend and work with, as I have not tried yet.
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
I cant speak to hard tubing, as I am still using soft tubing, because it is so much more convenient to deal with, I already have all the fittings, and I haven't had time to figure out the bending process and all that, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the same thing applies to hard tubes as does to soft ones.

Within reason, tube size does not matter much at all. There was a sticky in this forum for years (but I cant find it now) where a member did comprehensive flow testing with a variety of different tube sizes and found no significant difference between them.

I would buy what is more convenient to work with for you, what parts you can get at the best price (tubes and fittings) and what you find aesthetically pleasing, because the diameter just isn't all that relevant. Any off the common ones will perform just fine.

I run tubing with 3/8" ID and it works just fine. 1/2" and 5/8" used to also be popular in soft tubes. Not much if any performance difference between them.

These days the measurements seem to have shifted to mm. 3/8" is 9.5mm, 1/2" is 12.7mm and 5/8" is 15.9mm.

So, I'd argue anything between 9mm and 16mm ID will be just fine from a performance perspective.

I have no idea which sizes are easier to find parts for, or to bend and work with, as I have not tried yet.
Click to expand...

Zarathustra,
Thanks for your response. First build is exciting and a little daunting. So far I purchased my main components which shipped today. I know soft tubing will be so much more easy to do and purchase for but hard tube looks so much more sexy. I am willing to give it a go.
So whatever size piping the fitting size remains 1/4'' that will marry the fittings on my components. The other end can be whatever piping size I choose.
I am hoping to hear from someone who has had experience with say both 13mm and 16mm OD piping so I can get their perspective on how it is to work with either.
I am coming to realize that pipe size is an individual preference but it still does not help me make a decision on something I have never worked with before.
I was wanting to buy a kit form EK but the performance kit was not available here in Canada and I did not want the Classic kits. Definitely costing a lot more but
I so far chose good components. Next decision will be fans.
 
Fried One said:
Zarathustra,
Thanks for your response. First build is exciting and a little daunting. So far I purchased my main components which shipped today. I know soft tubing will be so much more easy to do and purchase for but hard tube looks so much more sexy. I am willing to give it a go.
So whatever size piping the fitting size remains 1/4'' that will marry the fittings on my components. The other end can be whatever piping size I choose.
I am hoping to hear from someone who has had experience with say both 13mm and 16mm OD piping so I can get their perspective on how it is to work with either.
I am coming to realize that pipe size is an individual preference but it still does not help me make a decision on something I have never worked with before.
I was wanting to buy a kit form EK but the performance kit was not available here in Canada and I did not want the Classic kits. Definitely costing a lot more but
I so far chose good components. Next decision will be fans.
Click to expand...


Yep. You got it. Either way, you are still going to be dealing with G1/4" thread on the fittings, as that has become the standard size for everything PC water cooling. What differs is the size of tubing that attaches to the other side of the fitting.

As mentioned before I can't really tell you anything about working with hard tubes, but if in your build you have any other questions, please feel free to reach out.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yep. You got it. Either way, you are still going to be dealing with G1/4" thread on the fittings, as that has become the standard size for everything PC water cooling. What differs is the size of tubing that attaches to the other side of the fitting.

As mentioned before I can't really tell you anything about working with hard tubes, but if in your build you have any other questions, please feel free to reach out.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bud.
Cheers.
 
With hard tubing It is just about looks. I prefer 14mm od, and feel like that is the sweet spot. 12 and 16mm Are more common with more fitting options. If you have the patience order fittings last. You will save alot of money if you put parts in the case, plan out the loop and order accordingly. Bitspower fittings re the most expensive.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
With hard tubing It is just about looks. I prefer 14mm od, and feel like that is the sweet spot. 12 and 16mm Are more common with more fitting options. If you have the patience order fittings last. You will save a lot of money if you put parts in the case, plan out the loop and order accordingly. Bitspower fittings re the most expensive.
Click to expand...
Hi Smoked,
That is such good advice. I am having a hard time to be honest. I know Bitspower is very pricey but I have been admiring other builds who have used these fittings. There is a company in Australia, Singularity Computers that only uses Bitspower. His builds are fantastic. I have been shopping for Bitspower 14mm fittings and I believe
I must have chosen more fittings than I really need. What if I am proficient at bending PTEG. I would have spent money on fittings not used. The store here does not accept returns on purchases. I have the small Milwaukee band saw and was wondering if I can use it to cut PETG hard tubing. The blade is a fine metal blade. Now that
I am putting the fittings on hold I'm going to shop for radiator fans.
Thanks for the tip.
Cheers.
 
Bitspower are great fittings, just pricey. For example, you will likely need 2 90 degree rotaries and a rotary valve for the drain. Your already at 60 dollars with bitspower. Just be careful. PETG is very easy to cut, you could even use scissors. You are doing it the right way with a small bandsaw, you will get great results.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
Bitspower are great fittings, just pricey. For example, you will likely need 2 90 degree rotaries and a rotary valve for the drain. Your already at 60 dollars with bitspower. Just be careful. PETG is very easy to cut, you could even use scissors. You are doing it the right way with a small bandsaw, you will get great results.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bud. Looking at purchasing other components for my build. Ordered components is to be delivered today. From there I will have a better idea how to run the loop.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
Bitspower are great fittings, just pricey. For example, you will likely need 2 90 degree rotaries and a rotary valve for the drain. Your already at 60 dollars with bitspower. Just be careful. PETG is very easy to cut, you could even use scissors. You are doing it the right way with a small bandsaw, you will get great results.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Bitspower are the most trusted fitting brand. You pay a premium for them though.

Other traditional brands like XSPC, EK, etc. are usually OK too (I had some XSPC bends leak on me, but it might hvae been my fault for running them too hot, it is unclear)

Some people are comfortable running with these modern Chinese fitting brands like Barrow and Monsoon. I am not one of them. The mere thought of it scares me. Besides, what an unfortunate brand name for water cooling fittings Monsoon is. I do not want a Monsoon in my case :p
 
3/8" tubing is the minimum you want to use. There was no meaningful impact on flow rate from 3/8" to 1/2" ID, but there was an impact on flow rate going down to 1/4" ID (tests I found years ago but no longer have the links to). Thicker wall tubing can make tighter bends than thin wall, but doesn't matter with hard tubing.

I used UV blue tubing with UV cold cathode lights, looked nice in the darkness. Nowadays I would assume you would use UV LED strips. I generally don't like using dyes but that's my personal preference. Many people use dyes without issues, but there are certain brands that have more issues than others.
 
Tsumi said:
3/8" tubing is the minimum you want to use. There was no meaningful impact on flow rate from 3/8" to 1/2" ID, but there was an impact on flow rate going down to 1/4" ID (tests I found years ago but no longer have the links to). Thicker wall tubing can make tighter bends than thin wall, but doesn't matter with hard tubing.

I used UV blue tubing with UV cold cathode lights, looked nice in the darkness. Nowadays I would assume you would use UV LED strips. I generally don't like using dyes but that's my personal preference. Many people use dyes without issues, but there are certain brands that have more issues than others.
Click to expand...

I've never even seen 1/4" tubing mentioned in water cooling circles! That must have been early on before 3/8" ID became the recognized standard smallest tubing you want to use.

As far as coolants and dyes go, there are a wide array of strongly held beliefs here that can easily result in flame wars, but I will give you my two cents based on my research and my opinion as an engineer, just understand that there is nowhere near consensus on these things

1.) Most coolants are based on distilled water with additives. There are three things you want in a good coolant. Antimicrobial additives to avoid bacterial or fungal growth, surfactants, to reduce the surface tension of the water, and allow better cooling (think Water Wetter) and anti-corrosion compounds to reduce the risk of corrosion in your loop.

2.) Generally the most effective (and suggested by WATERCOOL-Jakob, the forums Watercool rep) are glycol based solutions, as both ethylene and propylene glycol can serve all three of those functions in the right concentration. Some glycol formulations don't get along well with hard PET tubing though, so do your research before mixing anything yourself. Prepared watercooling coolants with glycol (either premix, or concentrates provided you dilute them correctly per instructions) should be fine though.

3.) You can mix your own coolant. People used to do this in the early days a lot more than they do now. They start with a distilled water base, add something to prevent growth, and maybe add surfactants and other things, or just leave it at that. Preformulated coolants are usually better these days though, as they have undergone thorough testing in the exact mixes they are sold, and are thus lower risk. There are many out there, but one of the easiest to get a hold of is EK's Cryofuel brand. It comes in a number of different colors, and has been running flawlessly in my loops for years. Its available in either 100ml concentrate (just mix with 900ml of distilled water to take a liter of coolant) or 1L premixed bottles.

4.) If you decide to mix in your own dyes, do your research carefully. Many dyes WILL STAIN the components of your loop. Particularly red ones for some reason. Never ever never under any circumstance what so ever use food coloring. It is mostly sugar and will do nasty things to your loop.

5.) Avoid opaque, shimmery, or fluids with anything in them you can't see through. As a rule they need microparticles in order to achieve these effects, and they easily get gummed up on the microchannels in your blocks causing reduced performance and flow. Generally these types of coolants have warnings on the bottle that they are for "show purposes only" but not always. Even when the coolant maker (mayhems, EK, etc.) say it is perfectly OK, I wouldn't trust them. It's just not a risk that is worth taking.

6.) Do not mix coolants. You never know how the various chemicals in different mixes are going to react with eachother, either immediately or long term.

7.) Here is the most controversial thing I will say in this post. Use of copper Ion additives (like PT Nuke and copies of it) as well as silver kill coils in distilled water to prevent growth is very popular. It was the best way to go in the early days. I generally recommend against this. Having dissimilar metal ions flying through your loop is a risk when it comes to corrosion and degradation of loop components over time. It is in all likelihood very slight and very slow, but it is better not to risk it, especially if you use nickel plated blocks. It should be fine if the nickel plating is well done, and uniformly nice and thick, but if there is even a small defect, thin spot or scratch, use of silver in your loop can exacerbate it. That and metal ions (copper or silver) will make distilled water which is naturally non-conductive more conductive. It is the ions in the water that cause the conductivity. Now granted, Ions like these will be picked up from blocks and other metal components over time anyway, which is why coolants get more conductive over time, and one of the reasons why regular (annual?) coolant drains, flushes and replacements are usually recommended, but why make it worse than it already is? In the unlikely event of a leak, I want my coolant as non-conductive as possible!

Speaking of dissimilar metals, you are aware to not mix metals in your loop right? They have have anodic indices really close to eachother or there will be corrosion over time. Look at the Wikipedia page for Galvanic Corrosion. I would make sure all metals in your loop are within 0.15V of each other, per the Anodic Index table in this article. That is the recommended engineering guideline for "harsh, wet environments".
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
Agreed.

Bitspower are the most trusted fitting brand. You pay a premium for them though.

Other traditional brands like XSPC, EK, etc. are usually OK too (I had some XSPC bends leak on me, but it might hvae been my fault for running them too hot, it is unclear)

Some people are comfortable running with these modern Chinese fitting brands like Barrow and Monsoon. I am not one of them. The mere thought of it scares me. Besides, what an unfortunate brand name for water cooling fittings Monsoon is. I do not want a Monsoon in my case :p
Click to expand...
I can only speak to what I have actually used. I have used bitspower extensively, primochill revolver series and barrows newest line of easy fit hardline fittings. All three of these brands I have found to be of high quality and can find no difference in build quality between bitspower's and barrow's rotaries. I ordered a bytsky right angle fitting by mistake and the threads were off, so I will not order from that particular company. I dont disagree that there can be some buildup with opaque fluids, but I do think it gets a bit exagerated these days. It all depends on your personal use case. I have used EK opaque white in a system for over 2 years and the cpu block looks fine, tubes arent stained etc. I am currently using mayhem purple, the build is up on the watercooled sticky, we will see how that goes. Opaque looks good, so what if it staines the tubes, is anyone reusing tubes? I get that you may want to change color or your worried about a plexi block, i get it, but it looks damned good in many cases. I would say if you are pushing a system hard and really heating the water day after day then go clear.
 
Last edited:
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Zarathustra[H] said:
I've never even seen 1/4" I tubing mentioned in water cooling circles! That must have been early on before 3/8" ID became the recognized standard smallest tubing you want to use.

As far as coolants and dyes go, there are a wide array of strongly held beliefs here that can easily result in flame wars, but I will give you my two cents based on my research and my opinion as an engineer, just understand that there is nowhere near consensus on these things

1.) Most coolants are based on distilled water with additives. There are three things you want in a good coolant. Antimicrobial additives to avoid bacterial or fungal growth, surfactants, to reduce the surface tension of the water, and allow better cooling (think Water Wetter) and anti-corrosion compounds to reduce the risk of corrosion in your loop.

2.) Generally the most effective (and suggested by WATERCOOL-Jakob, the forums Watercool rep) are glycol based solutions, as both ethylene and propylene glycol can serve all three of those functions in the right concentration. Some glycol formulations don't get along well with hard PET tubing though, so do your research before mixing anything yourself. Prepared watercooling coolants with glycol (either premix, or concentrates provided you dilute them correctly per instructions) should be fine though.

3.) You can mix your own coolant. People used to do this in the early days a lot more than they do now. They start with a distilled water base, add something to prevent growth, and maybe add surfactants and other things, or just leave it at that. Preformulated coolants are usually better these days though, as they have undergone thorough testing in the exact mixes they are sold, and are thus lower risk. There are many out there, but one of the easiest to get a hold of is EK's Cryofuel brand. It comes in a number of different colors, and has been running flawlessly in my loops for years. Its available in either 100ml concentrate (just mix with 900ml of distilled water to take a liter of coolant) or 1L premixed bottles.

4.) If you decide to mix in your own dyes, do your research carefully. Many dyes WILL STAIN the components of your loop. Particularly red ones for some reason. Never ever never under any circumstance what so ever use food coloring. It is mostly sugar and will do nasty things to your loop.

5.) Avoid opaque, shimmery, or fluids with anything in them you can't see through. As a rule they need microparticles in order to achieve these effects, and they easily get gummed up on the microchannels in your blocks causing reduced performance and flow. Generally these types of coolants have warnings on the bottle that they are for "show purposes only" but not always. Even when the coolant maker (mayhems, EK, etc.) say it is perfectly OK, I wouldn't trust them. It's just not a risk that is worth taking.

6.) Do not mix coolants. You never know how the various chemicals in different mixes are going to react with eachother, either immediately or long term.

7.) Here is the most controversial thing I will say in this post. Use of copper Ion additives (like PT Nuke and copies of it) as well as silver kill coils in distilled water to prevent growth is very popular. It was the best way to go in the early days. I generally recommend against this. Having dissimilar metal ions flying through your loop is a risk when it comes to corrosion and degradation of loop components over time. It is in all likelihood very slight and very slow, but it is better not to risk it, especially if you use nickel plated blocks. It should be fine if the nickel plating is well done, and uniformly nice and thick, but if there is even a small defect, thin spot or scratch, use of copper or silver in your loop can exacerbate it. That and metal ions will make distilled water which is naturally non-conductive more conductive. It is the ions in the water that cause the conductivity. Now granted, Ions like these will be picked up from blocks and other metal components over time anyway, which is why coolants get more conductive over time, and one of th ereasons why regular (annual?) coolant drains, flushes and replacements are usually recommended, but why make it worse than it already is? In the unlikely event of a leak, I want my coolant as non-conductive as possible!

Speaking of dissimilar metals, you are aware to not mix metals in your loop right? They have have anodic indeces really close to eachother or there will be corrosion over time. Look at the Wikipedia page for Galvanic Corrosion. I would make sure all metals in your loop are within 0.15V of each other, per the Anodic Index table in this article. That is the recomme3nded engineering guideline for "harsh, wet environments".
Click to expand...

Thank you for this detailed post. Lots of really good information that i will definitely pay attention to. My order was delayed for delivery till Monday. Guess I will just keep on planning out my remaining parts. Stay well,
Cheers.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
Fried One, looking at your parts list you will need one of these https://www.amazon.com/EKWB-EK-UNI-Bracket-120mm-Vertical/dp/B015ONJZ12 to mount that pump/res. I do not think it is included. Also, just for fun, check out this guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1J-4O7J2oMhmn1aSVwCpQ/videos singularity does great stuff but I really like this guy.
Click to expand...

Hey Smoked,
I totally overlooked the bracket. I was under the impression that the bracket with the rubber insert that fits around the res can be mounted to the backplate of the case. Will check it out. The bracket you mentioned is if you wanted to mount the pump/res on case floor. I will need to clarify this. Awesome link ...thanks will check him out.
Do you have any experience with Bitspower tubing...I ordered some lengths of Bitspower None Chamfer Crystal Link Tube OD 14mm ,but also came across Bitspower None Chamfer PETG Link Tube OD14mm 1000mm. I am not sure what the difference is other than the link tubing being $2 more than the Crystal. I'm now not sure which to get.
Thanks man.
 
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Fried One said:
Hey Smoked,
I totally overlooked the bracket. I was under the impression that the bracket with the rubber insert that fits around the res can be mounted to the backplate of the case. Will check it out. The bracket you mentioned is if you wanted to mount the pump/res on case floor. I will need to clarify this. Awesome link ...thanks will check him out.
Do you have any experience with Bitspower tubing...I ordered some lengths of Bitspower None Chamfer Crystal Link Tube OD 14mm ,but also came across Bitspower None Chamfer PETG Link Tube OD14mm 1000mm. I am not sure what the difference is other than the link tubing being $2 more than the Crystal. I'm now not sure which to get.
Thanks man.
Click to expand...

It does look like this mounting clip is included.

1587776467128.png


I'm trying to decide if I think that one clip at the bottom is sufficient to hold it. Probably is.
 
Fried One said:
Hey Smoked,
I totally overlooked the bracket. I was under the impression that the bracket with the rubber insert that fits around the res can be mounted to the backplate of the case. Will check it out. The bracket you mentioned is if you wanted to mount the pump/res on case floor. I will need to clarify this. Awesome link ...thanks will check him out.
Do you have any experience with Bitspower tubing...I ordered some lengths of Bitspower None Chamfer Crystal Link Tube OD 14mm ,but also came across Bitspower None Chamfer PETG Link Tube OD14mm 1000mm. I am not sure what the difference is other than the link tubing being $2 more than the Crystal. I'm now not sure which to get.
Thanks man.
Click to expand...
The bracket will give you the option to mount on the radiator or floor, or even come off the radiator vertically or any 120mm fan mount point. That included plastic clip doesn't offer much versatility. You could also just get this https://www.amazon.com/EKWB-EK-UNI-Pump-Bracket-120mm/dp/B015ONJYFO The link I gave before is a high price, your in Australia, I know, but I would consider this reasonable https://www.performance-pcs.com/wat...120mm-fan-vertical-ek-uni-pumpbk-120vert.html
Get the best deal on PETG, any brand is fine. Its all the same it is gonna be nice and clear and once you have your coolant in it it will look great.
 
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Smoked Brisket said:
That included clip will not mount to a 120mm fan or rad, you need one of the seperate brackets.
Click to expand...

Fair. I've never mounted a pump or reservoir to a fan. I've always drilled my own holes in the case.

As I funnily enough just mentioned in another thread:

I am Zarathustra, maker of holes!
 
Nothing wrong with drilling holes, I think that you should not be afraid to do it. The problem is with hardline tubing clearance is always an issue so you need to have mounting systems that give you a little space to work with. Being able to orientate the reservoir any way you want is invaluable. I know you have the dual pump setup on the bottom of your case. The tube res he has is meant to be mounted on a radiator or radiator fan. EK is not the only company to not include proper mounting hardware, just look at those heatkiller aluminum tube reservoirs, they are very misleading. Aqua Computer, alphacool, and Singularity all provide good mounting equipment in their curent combos, with singularity being the most expensive. I would be curios to know if singularity products are cheaper in Australia. What is curious is that the EK-Quantum Volume FLT 240 D-RGB d5 combo is cheaper than the combo he purchased and comes with a more robust mounting system.
 
I will be mounting this pump /res to my case frame. I picked up some acrylic today. Going to make a power supply shroud to cover floor of case. Also going to make a back board where the pump is going to mounted. Going to give it a shot. I received my order today of CPU block, rrad , pump res combo and some other items as well.
Guess I'm in it now. Kind excited to get going.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
The bracket will give you the option to mount on the radiator or floor, or even come off the radiator vertically or any 120mm fan mount point. That included plastic clip doesn't offer much versatility. You could also just get this https://www.amazon.com/EKWB-EK-UNI-Pump-Bracket-120mm/dp/B015ONJYFO The link I gave before is a high price, your in Australia, I know, but I would consider this reasonable https://www.performance-pcs.com/wat...120mm-fan-vertical-ek-uni-pumpbk-120vert.html
Get the best deal on PETG, any brand is fine. Its all the same it is gonna be nice and clear and once you have your coolant in it it will look great.
Click to expand...

Opened your link for the bracket at Amazon. I am not in Australia but in Canada. Singularity's Proton Pump and res was my first choice but the res was pretty expensive and it did not include a pump. I chose the EK because it included the D5 pump. Now Amazon here in Canada is asking $45.19 for the bracket plus $99.00 for shipping. WTF!!!
Really sucks here are not many retailers catering to watercooling and computer mods in general. I'm going to see how this pump will mount first with the supplied bracket.
 
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