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First computer build

D

Dodger1

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
129
I already have a GTX 280, a good 24” monitor, speakers and sound card but was looking at this build:

COOLER MASTER HAF 932

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500

OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227289

2 Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB

Lite-On 22X dvd burner

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit

Noctua NH-U12P 120mm SSO CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608002


I also have a couple of quick questions:

With the price of the Reapers being so reasonable would it make sense to go with 8GB?

Do you think that I’m going to have problems with the ram sinks interfering with the Noctua cooler?

The Corsair 750TX has a single 12V rail, which I like, and with the Haf 930’s cable storage I didn’t think I really needed a modular PSU. I also know that this PSU will handle any of the current Nvidia cards but I also know that more power is better?

Since this will be my first computer build, any and all advice is more than welcome.
 
Everything looks good... buy some zip-ties for pre stamp spots on the case for the cable management.
 
I'd go with the G.Skills lowteckh listed over the OCZ's. I don't think you'll run into a problem with the Noctua, but if you simply switch to the G.Skills, there's no issue at all. Why not get the Xigmatek HDT-S1283 instead? It performs on par and typically costs much less. Lite-On optical drives are typically louder than Samsung and Asus... if that matters to you.
 
Yeah 8 GB is probably overkill unless you are doing something with insane memory requirements.

I would recommend a Samsung DVD drive. I have both Lite-On and Samsung and my Samsung is much quieter and seems of better quality to me.

My Corsair PSU has treated me very well and I think you will be happy with the 750W unit. More than enough power for the rig you are planning.

Good luck!
 
Even though the E8500 does come in a combo with that Gigabyte mobo, it's still not worth the extra $25 over the combo with the E8400 and that Gigabyte mobo.

And I concur with Enginurd and lowteckh: Go with the G.Skill RAM. That extra 66Mhz is not worth the extra $16 before rebate nor it is worth waiting the 2 to 3 months for that rebate that will only make $4 less than the G.Skill. So do you really want to wait 2-3 months for a savings of $4 over the G.Skill RAM for just 66Mhz increase in speed?
 
The E8400 and E8500 will top off at about the same frequency give or take ~300MHz due to the 10x multi on the E8500.

This may or may not happen, the E8400 might end up clocking higher, vice versa
Either way, it's only 20 USD so it should not matter much but it can always help

I would choose the E8400 since higher FSB = better performance (very minimal 1-2FPS in gaming when compared to a same frequency with lwoer FSB)

Generally I would prefer the GTX 260 192SP since it's within 5-10FPS of the GTX 280 stock and for a 100 USD difference, I wouldn't pay it

You won't ever need more than 500w with your setup as it is, overclocked E8500/GTX 280, 2HDDs, 5 fans

I would save the money and get the PC Power & Cooling 500w, you will be on the edge @ 514w during 100% with 2HDD, 2 120mm, 3 230mm, E8500 4.5GHz 1.38v, and GTX 280 700/1400
The PC P&C 500w is rated at 550w max output

As for the RAM, I would change it to the Crucial 2X2GB DDR2 800 2.0v kit which @ tomshardware reached DDR2 1200 @ 2.0v 5-6-5-15

I myself have bought this kit after seeing that review to test it, I did not get as good as a kit as they did but I did manage to reach DDR2 1108 5-5-5-15 PL3 @ 2.1v 8hr memtest v2.11 stable

Here is the proof:
DDR2 1200 validation
DDR2 1200 Hyper Pi 1M
DDR2 1108 Hyper Pi 32M

About the HDDs I would only get 1 if this is mainly gaming rig, since RAID 0 does not benefit gaming and is actually worse than 1 drive due to latency increases

The difference between RAID 0 and 1 drive in gaming is very minimal 1-2secs in favor of the single drive as for everything else: loading OS, opening apps, transferring data, storage space these will be increased by a good margin
 
tonyluu said:
I would save the money and get the PC Power & Cooling 500w, you will be on the edge @ 514w during 100% with 2HDD, 2 120mm, 3 230mm, E8500 4.5GHz 1.38v, and GTX 280 700/1400
The PC P&C 500w is rated at 550w max output
Click to expand...

Ummm, that's precisely why he needs a 750W PSU: You do not want to load a PSU at 100% of its rated wattage for long periods of time. Some info from a far more credible source than I on the subject on power supplies (The PSU editor here at HardOCP):
Paul_Johnson said:
Yes and a quick search would turn up this topic a million times over. Here is the recap:

1) APFC can fool Kill-A-Watts into giving you abnormally low readings (some times giving better than 100% efficiency)

2) Power supplies derate with temperature anywhere from 2w/c above a nominal rated at value to 10w/c.

3) Kill-A-Watt's and most power meters sample too slowly to catch transient loads (the Transient load from our tests is 117w and is COMPLETELY missed by Kill-A-Watts).

4) Power supplies last longer if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

5) power supplies are quieter if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

6) Power supplies are cooler if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

The power meters in UPS software are just as bad. You have to spend some change before you get anywhere near an accurate power meter when your PSU has APFC.
Click to expand...

So I still recommend getting at least a quality 750W PSU for that system since it'll be closer to the optimal longevity, temperature and quietness of a PSU in addition to having headroom for future upgrades.

tonyluu said:
As for the RAM, I would change it to the Crucial 2X2GB DDR2 800 2.0v kit which @ tomshardware reached DDR2 1200 @ 2.0v 5-6-5-15

I myself have bought this kit after seeing that review to test it, I did not get as good as a kit as they did but I did manage to reach DDR2 1108 5-5-5-15 PL3 @ 2.1v 8hr memtest v2.11 stable
Click to expand...

The DDR2 1000 RAM is more than enough for the E8500 or E8400 if you keep to a 1:1 ratio. In addition, current Core 2 Duo setups do not take advantage of higher speed RAM, outside of overclocking, in real world tests. So in other words, the OP would not be able to tell the difference between your DDR 1200 capable set and any DDR2 800 set in real worlds apps and games.

Hell, there probably wouldn't be that much of a substantial difference between DDR2 1200 and DDR2 667 RAM (lowest speed possible on current Intel chipsets and at the 1:1 ratio for all 1333Mhz FSB Intel CPUS). The only reason why we're recommending the DDR2 1000 set is so that the OP would not be RAM limited when/if he gets around to overclocking the CPU. And that DDR2 1000 RAM is guaranteed to run at DDR2 1000 speeds whereas the Crucial DDR2 800 RAM set you recommended, there's a good chance that you will get a dud and when it comes to overclocking, YMMV.
 
Don't forget TIM.
Also you don't list it, but do you have a good keyboard and mouse?
How about UPS?

Just some things to think about
 
Danny Bui said:
Ummm, that's precisely why he needs a 750W PSU: You do not want to load a PSU at 100% of its rated wattage for long periods of time. Some info from a far more credible source than I on the subject on power supplies (The PSU editor here at HardOCP):
Click to expand...


Danny Bui said:
So I still recommend getting at least a quality 750W PSU for that system since it'll be closer to the optimal longevity, temperature and quietness of a PSU in addition to having headroom for future upgrades.
Click to expand...

Which is why I suggested a 500w

The specified rating of PSUs goes down over the years whether or not it's ran at full load 24/7 or not, depending on how the PSU has been "treated"

It will be worse if you run it 24/7 @ 100% rated wattage over the years than if ran at 50%

There will be new standards for PSUs and the market will be different, by the time he needs an upgrade his PSU (if 750w) it should certainly do the job but there will be much better PSUs by then and maybe different form factor/connector change in the upcoming years

Danny Bui said:
The DDR2 1000 RAM is more than enough for the E8500 or E8400 if you keep to a 1:1 ratio. In addition, current Core 2 Duo setups do not take advantage of higher speed RAM, outside of overclocking, in real world tests. So in other words, the OP would not be able to tell the difference between your DDR 1200 capable set and any DDR2 800 set in real worlds apps and games.
Click to expand...

I know that already, I suggested it since it is cheaper and he will be overclocking

Danny Bui said:
Hell, there probably wouldn't be that much of a substantial difference between DDR2 1200 and DDR2 667 RAM (lowest speed possible on current Intel chipsets and at the 1:1 ratio for all 1333Mhz FSB Intel CPUS).
Click to expand...
There isn't any difference since the bandwidth is more than enough for most apps unless you're going server where DDR3 bandwidth should be a must

Danny Bui said:
The only reason why we're recommending the DDR2 1000 set is so that the OP would not be RAM limited when/if he gets around to overclocking the CPU.
Click to expand...
Already knew that too ;)
 
I'm not understanding why you're recommending the 500w again - you just agreed with Danny, and then spit out the 500w which contradicts um, what you just "agreed" on. Running a PSU at 100% constantly or even near that is retarded. "Rated to run" means it can run, not "safe or recommended" to run. Cars can redline at 8000rpm, so by you definition running it at that line just before the red is safe?
 
tonyluu said:
Which is why I suggested a 500w

The specified rating of PSUs goes down over the years whether or not it's ran at full load 24/7 or not, depending on how the PSU has been "treated"

It will be worse if you run it 24/7 @ 100% rated wattage over the years than if ran at 50%
Click to expand...
Yeah I still don't understand why you recommended the 500W. That 550W is the peak rating meaning that it can only provide that much wattage for a few seconds safely. You agree with me that the PSU should not be run at 100% rated wattage yet you still recommend that PC P&C 500W but the system, which by your estimates, will exceed that of the PC P&C's 500W continuous rating. In addition, only 35A of that 500W is available on the +12V rail. Considering that the vast majority of PC parts out there draw power mainly from the +12V rail, at 420W or 35A on the +12V rail, you're recommending an underpowered PSU going from your 514W estimate.
 
And with the whole 8X% efficiency thing... 550w = 80% = 400w (AFAIK how that rating works).
 
The OP hasn't even stated if he will be overclocking or not.
The 514w estimated peak load is the worst possible scenario.

When using that rig at stock and not overclocked the rig @ load and idle will comply to the safe 40-60% of total rated wattage.
 
lowteckh said:
And with the whole 8X% efficiency thing... 550w = 80% = 400w (AFAIK how that rating works).
Click to expand...

Umm, no that isn't how the rating works. If that PSU is rated at 550W, that means that the PSU will draw about 650W of power from the wall if it's 80% efficient and at full 100% load.

tonyluu said:
The OP hasn't even stated if he will be overclocking or not.
The 514w estimated peak load is the worst possible scenario.

When using that rig at stock and not overclocked the rig @ load and idle will comply to the safe 40-60% of total rated wattage.
Click to expand...

Ok, yes at stock speeds, the PC P&C 500W will be good enough for that system. BUT again I'm questioning why you recommended a 500W PSU even though the it would not meet the estimate peak load?

Oh and besides, the PC P&C is a poor buy anyway at $70 for 35A for the +12V rail considering that you can get the BFG LS-550 with 41A on the +12V rail for $80 from newegg.com or $58 from buy.com.
 
NOOOoo, it'll draw 687.5w from the wall thus you is wrong :D Did my ninja face saving kick work?

@tonyluu - HAF932 and a Noctua 120mm cooler should be more than enough of a *hint* that it'll be tinkered with. Why would you even want to risk a "worst case scenario" at all, seeing how it can potentially be achieved?
 
tonyluu said:
The OP hasn't even stated if he will be overclocking or not.
Click to expand...

I would assume that the majority of [H] overclocks at one point or another. If he's doing his own build, especially with the components he listed, I would hope that the OP would least do some dabbling.

But that's neither here nor there... The point is that getting a 500w PSU for a system like this might create a bottleneck for an otherwise relatively solid system. In this case, its much better to make an error on the side of caution and get the 750w PSU.

I've dealt with an underpowered power supply once... there's nothing worse than getting the BSOD right after a sweet monster kill. :(
 
I think the PC P&C 750 QUAD Crossfire PSU is still on sale at Amazon for like $99 plus an extra $25MIR or something like that. Go check!

tonyluu said:
...
Click to expand...

From AT? if so, sup! how's that 98pro? if not, sorry to bother u, lol.
 
Thanks for all the feedback.

I will be overclocking and my reasoning for the PSU is that the real world measured 12v output is ~ 60A and that should hopefully allow for a comfortable safety net for future video cards.

The Xigmatek HDT-S1283 and HDT-S1284EE are excellent coolers but they mount with push pins, which I simply hate.

I am going to change from the OCZ’s to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145
and the optical to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151173

I do have a good keyboard, mouse and UPS.

It’s been a couple of years since I last used any TIM but I was thinking I’d use Arctic Cooling MX-2 on this build.
 
MX-2 is good, non-conductive and no cure time.

Yes, push-pins suck. Thats why Xigmatek has the ACK-i7751 crossbow retention kit. ;) However, its out of stock, but the combo kit isn't much more:

XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233019

XIGMATEK ACK-I7361 CPU Cooler - Retail (LGA 1366 / 775 Bolt-thru combo kit)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233027

You missed it... oh wellz. The PC Power & Cooling 750W Quad was $99 and had an additional $15MIR from Amazon.
 
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