First Build Questions: Old Alienware case still viable?

[KoalaYummies]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
This is mostly an upgrade for gaming.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Up to 850 max, including shipping and tax. Although I'd prefer 650 or under.
3) Where do you live?
USA, middle of nowhere. I.E. everything will have to be ordered online as there aren't any hardware stores within a reasonable distance.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, Motherboard, Ram, hdd, video card, OS, PSU*, Case*, cpu cooler*, casefans*.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Undecided, Would like to know if Alienware case with 5x80mm cooling is still viable option as well as Ultra / X-Connect / 400-Watt / ATX / Dual 80mm Fan PSU.
6) Will you be overclocking?
Not sure. Would like to have it as an option for future upgrades.
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
I already have an Asus MS226 22".
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Over the next 3 weeks.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.
Crossfire or SLI would be nice as well as USB 3.0, but aren't must haves. Onboard video is not required.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, Windows XP 32bit.

With the exception of a recent netbook purchase for school, this will be my first new pc in 12 years, in part due to a combination of laziness while mostly the result of being broke. I received my current Alienware P4 2.53 GHz as a graduation gift of sorts. I've replaced the power supply and upgraded the ram to 1gig(Oh my!) during that time, but everything else remains the same.

I have a few questions regarding what, if anything, would be okay to keep and whether or not I'm headed in the right direction with my build so far. Any advice for suggested replacements is appreciated. The case in question looks almost identical to the one featured in the link to my old PSU. It has spots for 2 front, 2 rear, and 1 side 80mm fans. I haven't liked the looks of just about every case I've seen over the past few months, and so I'd like to keep this one if cooling won't be an issue. I'm a bit more certain that not buying a new psu would be silly at this point, but it never hurts to ask.

I have WinXP, but I'm wondering if buying the upgrade to Win7 32bit is going to hurt me for future hardware upgrades.

This is what I've come up with from Newegg for $724.28, without comparing prices on other sites yet.

HDD Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"

Video Card SAPPHIRE 100287L Radeon HD 5670 (Redwood) 512MB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16

Power Supply Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80

Memory
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL8D-4GBXM

Motherboard
ASUS P8P67 (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Processor Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I32100

OS-Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Full

Cpu Cooler XIGMATEK LOKI SD963 92mm HYPRO Bearing CPU Cooler bracket included I7 i5 775 1155 AMD and dual fan push pull compatible

Case Fans MASSCOOL FD08025S1M4 80mm Case Fan (x5?)

 

[setscrew]

You should modify the Alienware case to accept larger diameter fans that will increase airflow and decrease noise.

Post some pictures in case mod so we may assist you.

I have WinXP, but I'm wondering if buying the upgrade to Win7 32bit is going to hurt me for future hardware upgrades.

Win 7 64 bit should be the only consideration for gaming (get 'upgrade' version in lieu of pro. to save $; i.e. install twice).

You are correct to trash the old Ultra PS.

You would probably be better off with an AMD Phenom II build to hit the desired $650.00 target.

 

[Dangman]

Yeah you're looking at a new case and PSU as neither of those parts are viable for a new PC thse days. In addition, since you want the option to overclock, you need a "K' series CPU to overclock the CPU these days on the Intel side. So for you, you're gonna want the Core i5 2500K.

$320 - Intel Core i5-2500K CPU + MSI P67A-C43 Intel P67 ATX Motherboard
$41 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$150 - Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 XTREME 1 GB PCI-E Video Card
$70 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$64 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
$32 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156
$100 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
---
Total: $777 plus tax and shipping

Key differences between the above build and yours:
- Larger PSU which means more room for future upgrades
- Faster and larger hard drive
- Significantly faster video card
- Faster and quad-core CPU since many games these days do need a quad-core for best performance (the CPU you chose is a dual-core)
- Single stick of 4GB of RAM which will allow you to upgrade to 16GB of RAM later on
- Better cooling HSF

Case wise, I recommend these cases:
$60 - Cooler Master HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 ATX Case
$70 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K58W ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56 ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance ATX Case
$100 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$106 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$110 - Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX Case
$110 - NZXT Whisper WHI - 001BK ATX Full Tower Case
$120 - Velocity Micro GX2-W Silver Classic Aluminum Case with Side Window
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$165 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case

 

[Mercuri]

You can get an upgrade version of Win 7 Home for about a $100. No need to get the full version, as long as you have your XP disc or your XP product key handy during the installation of Win 7.

120mm fans can be much quieter than 80mm while offering the same performance. You can also put in fewer of them. An active fan produces its own heat, and more fans draw more on the power supply, which makes the power supply warm up. There is such a thing as too many fans

You can get a pretty solid case with 120mm fan support for as little as $40, such as a Xigmatek Asgard or a Cooler Master Elite.

 

[KoalaYummies]

I didn't expect a quick response, so I'll have to come back to post in detail later, including an AMD build. A few things before I go: I'm a bit leery about purchasing an OEM OS. As long as there are no compatibility issues in upgrading from 32bit XP to 64bit Win7, I'd prefer that. I was thinking of replacing the CPU in about a year, which is why I picked the cheaper dual core w/o OC. Would I get more performance now for an extra $50 or even more later for an extra $100?

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Dangman]

I was thinking of replacing the CPU in about a year, which is why I picked the cheaper dual core w/o OC. Would I get more performance now for an extra $50 or even more later for an extra $100?

You're better off just getting a fast quad-core CPU like the 2500K now. Many current games are already taking huge advantage of quad-cores. In addition, the new Ivy Bridge Intel CPUs are supposedly only about 20% faster than current Intel SB Core i5 and Core i7 CPUs. Hardly worth waiting a whole year for.

 

[CleanSlate]

I concur with most that has been said... get the 2600k or 2500k now, even if you have to save up more for it. Windows 7 64bit for gaming for sure.

Also: 430W psu most likely isn't enough for your chosen gaming rig for sure, plus stick to a name brand even at significant cost increase. Get 6 gigs of ram or more. I got 8 and it's just so nice knowing you won't ever have to worry about taking all of it up.

Aaaaaannnddd it looks like everyone has got you covered here so far. I would suggest about an 1100T x6 AMD. I got one and it runs very cool in windows, even with a sock HSF. Although if you want to OC it I would highly suggest a corsair H60 water cooling kit which will be my next purchase.

500 gig hd is a little light, too.

 

[KoalaYummies]

I forgot an optical drive. It doesn't need to be a Blueray player/burner. Just about anything for $20 would suffice, unless there's one I should absolutely avoid even if it were free.

@Danny
I hadn't noticed that MSI and was comparing the Asus to the MSI $179 1155.The 5850 looks to have double the stats of the 5670, but at double the price as well. Is going for the 5670 going to cause 50% performance loss, and if it does how does that translate to playability rather than looks? Everything else, aside from the CPU seems comparable in price with better specs.

So, looking over the AMD options, I'd basically be swapping the motherboard and the CPU. All other things being equal, I'd save $80 going for these two vs. Intel? Going any further up the ladder just seems to make the price on par with Intel without comparable performance. But, that would cover the case and an optical drive.

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition

ASUS M4A79XTD EVO

What exactly would I be replacing/adding a year or two from now for upgrades? I'm pushing for it to last 4-5 years, but I have lived with this one for oh, 13... Would upping the ram from 4-16 and adding another gpu to the AMD build make a huge difference in performance? Or should I expect to be replacing the cpu too?

Would either the AMD Phenom II X4 840 or AMD Phenom II X4 925 be okay for now if that's the case?

@CleanSlate I really don't have anything that I think I'd need the space for. I don't actually store much of anything outside of program files. If I were to buy 4-5 AA games(can't think of a better term) are you saying they'd really take up that much space?

@setscrew
As far as cases go, I think you may be overestimating my patience and dremelling skills and underestimating my inherent slacker nature. Thanks So, yeah. I'll need a new case too. The NZXT Phantom had actually been the frontrunner in my mind for a while, followed by the Antec Skeleton because of its sheer absurdity. It is the only part of the machine I'd be looking at every day for the next few years. A couple weeks ago I found their editorial of pink cases and components and was disappointed to discover that they were just joking, especially after the new colors they just released to various vendors. I'd have given them ridiculous amounts of money for each and every part.

 

[Dangman]

I forgot an optical drive. It doesn't need to be a Blueray player/burner. Just about anything for $20 would suffice, unless there's one I should absolutely avoid even if it were free.

DVD burners are basically all the same now. So just go for the cheapest one with free or cheap shipping and you'll be fine.

@Danny
I hadn't noticed that MSI and was comparing the Asus to the MSI $179 1155.The 5850 looks to have double the stats of the 5670, but at double the price as well. Is going for the 5670 going to cause 50% performance loss, and if it does how does that translate to playability rather than looks? Everything else, aside from the CPU seems comparable in price with better specs.

IIRC, the HD 5850 is more than 50% faster than the HD 5670. THe HD 5670 wasn't that fast of a card to begin when it was first released. Due to your high resolution, no matter how low you set the graphic settings, the HD 5670 will still struggle with most current games at 1920x1080. In other words, it would be an extremely poor idea to go with the HD 5670 due to your monitor. Even if you're on a shoe-string budget, still wouldn't be a good idea to go with that card.

What exactly would I be replacing/adding a year or two from now for upgrades? I'm pushing for it to last 4-5 years, but I have lived with this one for oh, 13... Would upping the ram from 4-16 and adding another gpu to the AMD build make a huge difference in performance? Or should I expect to be replacing the cpu too?

Depends on the game actually and which platform you go with. For gaming, 4GB of RAM is more than enough. However if you're the type to leave multiple apps running in the background, upping to 8GB of RAM wouldn't hurt gaming performance but neither increase it either. Adding a second GPU probably won't help that much since AMD's drivers for HD 5xxx series Crossfire is a bit lacking at best.

Now the problem with both the Intel and AMD routes in terms of CPU upgrade path is that they basically have little to no confirmed upgrade paths. In the case of AMD, AMD is releasing their new Bulldozer CPUs which have not been 100% confirmed to be compatible with existing socket AM3 motherboards. As for Intel, Intel has said that their Ivy Bridge CPUs are gonna be compatible with current Intel socket LGA 1155 mobos. But they're gonna leave it to the mobo manufacturers to implement support. Which means there's a really good possiblity that backwards compatibility won't happen to that many current LGA 1155 mobos due to obvious business reasons.

With all that said, if you go the 2500K route, more than likely you won't need to do a CPU upgrade within a year or two. Especially if you OC the CPU. Even at stock, the 2500K has enough performance headroom over the Phenom II 965 to make it last significantly longer than the 965.

Would either the AMD Phenom II X4 840 or AMD Phenom II X4 925 be okay for now if that's the case?

The 840 is just a Phenom II in name only due to the lack of L3 cache and being based on the same CPU core as the Athlon II X4 CPUs. So it would not be good choice due the Phenom II 925 being so close in price.

 

[KoalaYummies]

Everything's here now, finally.

Intel Core i5-2500K CPU + MSI P67A-C43 Intel P67 ATX Motherboard
G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 XTREME 1 GB PCI-E Video Card
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156
Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
Cooler Master HAF 912

HAF 912-One of the optical drive bay cover latches broke off while trying to remove it. One of the rubber feet for the power supply came loose in the case and ripped in half. These are minor problems, but I thought I'd mention them regardless.

The heatsink fan also sits directly over the first dimm slot. I can move it up so it's not touching the ram heatsink, but I'm not sure if I should be concerned.

I'm a bit confused on which way to install the PSU. Should the fan be up or down? I've looked around before and people seem to argue for either and there's nothing specifically mentioned in the manual.

I also completely forgot that I didn't have to do an in place install of Win7, which is why I was confused about the upgrade over the full version.

 

[Dangman]

Have the PSU fan "face" down into the case.

 

[E4g1e]

You're better off just getting a fast quad-core CPU like the 2500K now. Many current games are already taking huge advantage of quad-cores. In addition, the new Ivy Bridge Intel CPUs are supposedly only about 20% faster than current Intel SB Core i5 and Core i7 CPUs. Hardly worth waiting a whole year for.

Yes, the OP has already received the i5-2500K. I would have stated that not only is the i3-2100 only dual-core, it cannot be overclocked at all whatsoever via the multiplier (and could be overclocked only minimally at best even through the BCLK) due to its lack of the TurboBoost feature.

 

[AlienHairball]

Regarding that Cooler Master Hyper 212+

I had the same problem as you with the 212+ covering that first DIMM slot. My advice is to do what I did - move the cooler fan from a push to a pull configuration.

Specifically:
unclip the fan
unscrew the fan clips
move the clips to the other side of the fan
screw clipback in
clip the fan onto the other side of the cooler

You'll give up maybe a degree or 2 celsius in cooling, but that's pretty minor for us average folk. It completely opens up that first DIMM slot and I'm overclocked to 4.5Ghz with no temp problems.

 

[KoalaYummies]

Well, I got everything up and running. The UEFI not-bios is nice, but weird. It's bizarre seeing the option to play games of all things, in the bios. I couldn't get the Winki3 OS to load past the install or splash screen. Maybe I was doing it wrong, and I don't really care, but I was curious to see it. According to the uefi, the cpu temp was at 44c. I think that's not good? I haven't run/installed any other benchmarking/testing programs. Maybe the middle pin on the heatsink isn't pushed down far enough?

Anyway, I tried your suggestion, AlienHairball, because it seems reasonable, but I cannot get it to work. Taking the screws out was fine, but trying to put them back in was not so easy. The holes on the front side of the fan don't have any threads in them. I couldn't screw them in more than a sixteenth of an inch. I tried putting them back into the original side and even that was a pain, so I trucked over to my dad's. He likes to build dressers, desks, and worked as a machinist for a short while, but he's not really a computer person and doesn't work with plastic. He managed to screww all but one back into the original holes but couldn't get any further than me on the other side. He said I needed something called a tapping and he didn't have any small enough.

Edit: Fixed it! Installed Prime and Real Temp and I'm getting temps in the low 30's.