First Build inyears (guidance please)

pgwalsh

Gawd
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Mar 21, 2005
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698
Hello all!
I haven't built a PC in quite a while (not including servers or RPi). My last build was an Intel 2600K and that computer is still chugging along. However I feel the need to upgrade. This is the first of two I'll builds, the other will be DAW focused, and is my daily driver which will be used for software development, encoding and some cad. This system will be running Linux and the next one windows. I plan to use the system with at least a 34" screen at 3440 x1440 (4k/5k are a bit pricey). Please feel free to recommend a monitor as well, anything below $1000.

Caveats: I'm clueless on modern PC's, I'm not a gamer, I don't care about (don't like) lights or RGB, I prefer a very quiet system.

The system I put together at PCPartPicker is below. Please feel free to give me any advice and point out potential issues I may have. If you find that I can change a little of this and that and get a better system please share.
  • AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor $299.99
  • CPU Cooler : Noctua NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler $39.95
  • Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard $114.99 ***
  • Memory: G.Skill Sniper X 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory $149.99
  • Storage: Intel 660p Series 2.048 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive $179.00
  • Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 570 8 GB ARMOR OC Video Card $159.99
  • Case: Fractal Design Define R6 ATX Mid Tower Case $128.00
  • Power Supply: SeaSonic PRIME SNOWSILENT 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply $104.99
  • Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer $66.98



Base Total: $1243.88

Promo Discounts: -$15.00

Mail-in Rebates: -$25.00

Shipping: $17.98

Total: $1221.86

*** This part conerns me as I do not have another AMD chip. ***

Warning!Some AMD B450 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Matisse CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions.

Note:The Noctua NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler may require a separately available mounting adapter to fit the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard.

Note:The motherboard M.2 slot #1 shares bandwidth with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports. When the M.2 slot is populated, two SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports are disabled.

Note:Some physical dimension restrictions cannot (yet) be automatically checked, such as cpu cooler / RAM clearance with modules using tall heat spreaders.



Thank you in advance.

Peter
 

motqalden

[H]ard|DCOTM x3
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Well it certainly is a concern and there is a very good chance that board doesn't come with the later revision bios. Do you have a friend with basically any ryzen chip you can borrow for an hour or two to flash your bios if needed?

If nothing else and if you don't mind waiting AMD will ship you a "Boot Kit" which is basically a loaner chip to allow you to update:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-100

Edit: The board in your specs appears to support bios flashback meaning you can update it even if your current bios doesn't support the 3700x!
 

somebrains

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I don't think that enough cooler to maintain normal behavior.

U14s fits in my define C, should fit fine in your R6.

I'd get 3x Noctua 140mm pwm fans for the case.

I have an X34 and use an XB1 in portrait mode as my tools/vs code/etc after focus monitor.

Tmux lives on the right side, browser on the left of the ultrawide.

I don't get why people are building workstations without proper storage. I use Samsung Pro drives for K8's bc write speed is consistent across the entire drive. I'd grab a pair or different drives. If you are determined to run everything local, a dedicated drive for resources is a good idea when you start testing.

X570 Prime isn't much more than the tomahawk, I'd go that way.

If you find yourself doing more data engineering nvme raid is a good thing to have. Say you want to examine redis behavior on a mobile or static fronted application at scale.
 

pgwalsh

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Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
I don't think that enough cooler to maintain normal behavior.

U14s fits in my define C, should fit fine in your R6.

I'd get 3x Noctua 140mm pwm fans for the case.

I have an X34 and use an XB1 in portrait mode as my tools/vs code/etc after focus monitor.

Tmux lives on the right side, browser on the left of the ultrawide.

I don't get why people are building workstations without proper storage. I use Samsung Pro drives for K8's bc write speed is consistent across the entire drive. I'd grab a pair or different drives. If you are determined to run everything local, a dedicated drive for resources is a good idea when you start testing.

X570 Prime isn't much more than the tomahawk, I'd go that way.

If you find yourself doing more data engineering nvme raid is a good thing to have. Say you want to examine redis behavior on a mobile or static fronted application at scale.
Ok.. I'm with you on some of what you say and some I can't figure out. When you refer to U14s, I'm not sure what that is, I'm old so please understand. I figured out your monitor, but I will look for something with freesync since I have an AMD graphics card, but probably wont matter much since I don't play games. There's a 34" Dell and Lg that look promising.

I added the Asus Z570 Prime to my build. Thank you.

I have 1 drive because I backup everythign locally and remotely regularly (I may put a spinner in the case at some point). There is a daily mirror copy done to a local spinner in case of compete failure.

Which cooler do you recommend?

For the first poster. I don't have any friends locally that build PC's, soI dont' want to take any changes. Thank you for the idea.
 

somebrains

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Sync won’t matter, framerate makes movement smoother.
Yes, I notice the difference btw my issued Mac and the desktop I white boxed with my equipment allowance at runs an ultrawide @100hz....even just staring my tux.
It’s not just gaming where higher refresh is beneficial.

u14s is a larger noctua cooler.
Modern cpus boost behavior when you build or test application features need to be cooled better than that so cooler you selected, or you won’t be getting the most out of what you bought for this specific reason.

I suggested 2 drives bc I deploy and test my builds onto some resource.
In your case if writing features and committing them is the extent of it, I’d be more concerned about being 10 years behind in workflow than my dev hardware.
Inland, Sabrent, Corsair pcie 4.0 drive is a cheaper alternative to a Samsung Pro.
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
Sync won’t matter, framerate makes movement smoother.
Yes, I notice the difference btw my issued Mac and the desktop I white boxed with my equipment allowance at runs an ultrawide @100hz....even just staring my tux.
It’s not just gaming where higher refresh is beneficial.

u14s is a larger noctua cooler.
Modern cpus boost behavior when you build or test application features need to be cooled better than that so cooler you selected, or you won’t be getting the most out of what you bought for this specific reason.

I suggested 2 drives bc I deploy and test my builds onto some resource.
In your case if writing features and committing them is the extent of it, I’d be more concerned about being 10 years behind in workflow than my dev hardware.
Inland, Sabrent, Corsair pcie 4.0 drive is a cheaper alternative to a Samsung Pro.
Thanks.

So the changes I've made were to the cooler and motherboard. I'll consider the SSD's. The cost difference is nominal.

Monitors I'm consider due to being on sale.
LG UltraGear 34GK950G-B 34"
Dell Alienware AW3418DW 34"

Any other suggestions?

 

somebrains

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I am just in the dark about your workflow.
I've been on a keyboard since 1997.
Today I have a Kubernetes cluster or vm centric infrastructure deployment I need to test against.

I'm the Lead DevOps and Security engineer, so I don't let myself deploy builds until my pipeline not only conforms to spec but I've stack traced and ensured I'm not just pushing same old.

I have a local environment not bc I care about AWS, GCP, or Azure charges....but bc I have complete control over resources public cloud in any shape or form doesn't allow.

Insight into your workflow would be good, otherwise if you are just git/svn pushing and going back to your IDE or terminal without local build then you don't need to do anything
 

erek

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Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
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Well it certainly is a concern and there is a very good chance that board doesn't come with the later revision bios. Do you have a friend with basically any ryzen chip you can borrow for an hour or two to flash your bios if needed?

If nothing else and if you don't mind waiting AMD will ship you a "Boot Kit" which is basically a loaner chip to allow you to update:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-100

Edit: The board in your specs appears to support bios flashback meaning you can update it even if your current bios doesn't support the 3700x!

does bios flashback work for this?

the board seems to have the BIOS flash button

 

newls1

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Messages
4,414
the tomahawk "MAX" was made for 3rd gen ryzens... I promise you it will boot right from the box
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
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I am just in the dark about your workflow.
I've been on a keyboard since 1997.
Today I have a Kubernetes cluster or vm centric infrastructure deployment I need to test against.

I'm the Lead DevOps and Security engineer, so I don't let myself deploy builds until my pipeline not only conforms to spec but I've stack traced and ensured I'm not just pushing same old.

I have a local environment not bc I care about AWS, GCP, or Azure charges....but bc I have complete control over resources public cloud in any shape or form doesn't allow.

Insight into your workflow would be good, otherwise if you are just git/svn pushing and going back to your IDE or terminal without local build then you don't need to do anything
Not much to say to be honest. Mostly wanted a new machine because my other one is getting long in the tooth. I have been overseas for the past few years and not working in IT sector at all. Started taking some courses to update my knowledge and learn some new things. Will continue taking classes until I'm comfortable and get some certifications in order to reenter the market. I have a long road ahead of me, but mostly doing it out of interest instead of financial need, if you understand what I'm saying.


Thanks again for your help.
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
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Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
the tomahawk "MAX" was made for 3rd gen ryzens... I promise you it will boot right from the box
Is that as comparable to the Asus Prime X570-P board? I don't need overkill, but just enough of an upgrade to notice.
 

newls1

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Messages
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the max is a fine board for your needs.. i dont know what the price difference is between the 2 boards, but if you can benefit from PCIe 4.0 (mostly from m.2's and future expansion) then that is really all the x570 chipset differs. if its like a 20-40$ difference, id go x570, but the MAX x470 is a fine board
 

pgwalsh

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Messages
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the max is a fine board for your needs.. i dont know what the price difference is between the 2 boards, but if you can benefit from PCIe 4.0 (mostly from m.2's and future expansion) then that is really all the x570 chipset differs. if its like a 20-40$ difference, id go x570, but the MAX x470 is a fine board
That MAX is $114 right now and the Asus is $149. I don't see PCIe 4.0 in the near future for me. I've been pretty happy with the performance from SATA SSD's. I'm gathering none of these boards will be compatible with Zen 3? So I figure whatever I get should be adaqueate for the next few years.

OK.. perhaps I'm misunderstanding something The MAX x470 and the tomahawk https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-TOMAHAWK-MAX/Overview are different baords, no?
 
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somebrains

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Is that as comparable to the Asus Prime X570-P board? I don't need overkill, but just enough of an upgrade to notice.

If he wants to re-enter software engineering testing at scale is a thing.
That means I'd need 100k iops for my mobile fronted app to ensure that my users aren't being disconnected and hot with replying storms at most basic level.

I want to make sure my worker tier is writing at a queue depth of 100k+ simultaneous users at a mean time btw service of say 3 10ths of a millisecond across 2 regions....and I'm only looking for my application to maintain state across 2-6 Geo regions.

If he wasn't directly managing infrastructure, then he'd have to conform to hard SLAs his features would be tested against.

Dev isnt just typing garbage.
 

somebrains

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Not much to say to be honest. Mostly wanted a new machine because my other one is getting long in the tooth. I have been overseas for the past few years and not working in IT sector at all. Started taking some courses to update my knowledge and learn some new things. Will continue taking classes until I'm comfortable and get some certifications in order to reenter the market. I have a long road ahead of me, but mostly doing it out of interest instead of financial need, if you understand what I'm saying.


Thanks again for your help.


Certs won't help you if you don't put the work in.
I have 6 AWS certs bc I work for an Amazon Partner, and it's a requirement.
I build infrastructure, I test builds bc I'm annoyed when teams code solutions to nothing, and I've been doing it for over 20 years.

1) Kubernetes is a thing everywhere, learn it.
2) You need to decide what you want to do based on your Geo. Mine is x.js, yours might be .NET, you should buy up your local Dev centric meetups to figure out need.
3). You may be better off with a $200-300 x60 Thinkpad bc your area might be MS/Linux bare metal/MacOS native as issued device. You can't spend $ on a Thinkpad and a $200 2014 Mac mini easily. Eating the wrong desktop build is difficult

4). Local storage IO is an argument I get into bc I can test ideas without burning public cloud resources. It's important to not have a cap on your IO. Moving say 9 years worth of sales data when I don't know what I'm doing becomes time consuming and expensive. Using a synthetic dataset is efficient.
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
Certs won't help you if you don't put the work in.
I have 6 AWS certs bc I work for an Amazon Partner, and it's a requirement.
I build infrastructure, I test builds bc I'm annoyed when teams code solutions to nothing, and I've been doing it for over 20 years.

1) Kubernetes is a thing everywhere, learn it.
2) You need to decide what you want to do based on your Geo. Mine is x.js, yours might be .NET, you should buy up your local Dev centric meetups to figure out need.
3). You may be better off with a $200-300 x60 Thinkpad bc your area might be MS/Linux bare metal/MacOS native as issued device. You can't spend $ on a Thinkpad and a $200 2014 Mac mini easily. Eating the wrong desktop build is difficult

4). Local storage IO is an argument I get into bc I can test ideas without burning public cloud resources. It's important to not have a cap on your IO. Moving say 9 years worth of sales data when I don't know what I'm doing becomes time consuming and expensive. Using a synthetic dataset is efficient.

OK.. Thanks for your input and help, I appreciate it.
 

somebrains

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OK.. Thanks for your input and help, I appreciate it.

You're old, I'm old, go learn Jenkins and Kubernetes.
Get so deep into Git you can pass the LinkedIn knowledge check.
Learn Python, Yaml, and something data driven.
It's the glue that holds features together in my world.

Play "old dog knows tricks you young guys don't about getting into Prod".

Writing features is what guys that have less than 5 years do. We burn them up, we have more important things to do.

Don't overbuild, scout your local environment for toolchain and issued gear.

Slow down, what you think Dev is has bee long dead.
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
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Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
Does anyone think that 550 80+ power supply is not enough? Just read that my video card needs 450w.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Does anyone think that 550 80+ power supply is not enough? Just read that my video card needs 450w.

That's more CYA on the manufacturer's part. You could likely get away with 350W.

The 450W number is referring to the whole system.
 

mda

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As someone with the Wraith Prism, a bunch of Noctuas (U12S/A), the 2700X & (which runs hotter and uses more power than the) 3700X, I'd say you should keep the money first and stay with stock.

With your CPU run stock, the stock Prism is only noisy when it changes RPM. If you set it to have an almost static fan curve (at 60-65%), I find to be almost the same noise as the Noctuas I have.
I'm running it in a Define S, which is even less noise insulated compared to the Define R6 you have. I don't think you'll have a problem with noise with the stock cooler with a fan curve adjustment.

Unfortunately, you'll need to turn off the RGB on this from inside Windows...
 

somebrains

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Don't connect either RGB cable, and don't install rgb software.

His CPU will ramp when he kicks off a compile, runs a stack trace, analyzes his logs, breaks out his unit tests for order efficiency, untangles any sync/async issues, etc.

I mean just running a make script kicked my old 2600 or 1700x into highway gear.

Linux acts totally diff than Win10.
MS has actually done a lot of work under the hood with WSL most people don't use or won't appreciate.
 

crazycrave

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I find it so interesting they can still sale b450 and x470 as a new product with the word MAX added .
 

GalacticAC

n00b
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Dec 3, 2019
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If you're going with that cooler, I'd stick with the stock wraith and save the money. Maybe put it into a rx 580.
 

dave343

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The stock cooler on the 3700x isn't bad, and it looks good. I'd just save the $ and put it towards maybe the GPU or motherboard.
 

bobzdar

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Stick with the stock cooler, the l9i is more for clearance limited solutions which your case won't have.

Edit: that's a killer deal on the ssd
 

crazycrave

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Here is mine on the stock cooler and I am more to gaming as it's tuned and will show how close my RX 5700 is to a XT that they think it is lol ..

UserBenchmarks: Game 93%, Desk 86%, Work 88%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - 95.4%
GPU: AMD RX 5700-XT - 95.9%
SSD: PNY CS900 120GB - 69.7%
HDD: Seagate Ultra Slim PL 1TB - 56.3%
RAM: Unknown TEAMGROUP-UD4-3200 4x8GB - 91.4%
MBD: MSI X470 GAMING PLUS
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
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Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
Hey all. Still waiting for my Tomahawk motherboard from BHPhotoVideo. Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate.

Also I just took the plunge for system number 2. This will be mostly for my DAW workstation and encoding etc. I purchased the Ryzen 9 3950X and all I need now is everything else. :bucktooth:

Again, I want to build something non colorful and quiet as can be so recommendations on all parts is appreciated. This machine will be running W10.

Edit: I'm thinking of this motherboard _Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER
 
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d3athf1sh

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@pgwalsh i recommend the MSI UNIFY but you should check out these videos. also the AOURUS Master wouldn't be a bad choice. you definately want a board w/ a good VRM for sure.
 

blackmomba

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Dec 5, 2018
Messages
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You're old, I'm old, go learn Jenkins and Kubernetes.
Get so deep into Git you can pass the LinkedIn knowledge check.
Learn Python, Yaml, and something data driven.
It's the glue that holds features together in my world.

Play "old dog knows tricks you young guys don't about getting into Prod".

Writing features is what guys that have less than 5 years do. We burn them up, we have more important things to do.

Don't overbuild, scout your local environment for toolchain and issued gear.

Slow down, what you think Dev is has bee long dead.

As someone who just went through the transition of "old dev" to DevOps, these are wise words. Thanks for sharing
 

pgwalsh

Gawd
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Mar 21, 2005
Messages
698
@pgwalsh i recommend the MSI UNIFY but you should check out these videos. also the AOURUS Master wouldn't be a bad choice. you definately want a board w/ a good VRM for sure.
I ended up going with the Aourus Master. My first build is up and running will transition my stuff today. The only issue I have is that the stock cooler fan seems to be making more noise than expected so I'll have to make sure that's the cause of the whine I hear. Can't handle noise; I always need silence.

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2Fv0ruq.jpg



If it is the CPU fan then I'll probably go with that NH-U14S and look into liquid cooling for the 3950x, which i should probably do anyway.

Thanks again everyone, you all are awesome. I'd give you all kudos for your help but more likely to give you a wafer thing mint.

inimg.com%2F736x%2F70%2Fca%2F2a%2F70ca2a662cf1379cc8fccd2e7e6ef662--chocolate-mints-monty-python.jpg
 

d3athf1sh

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I ended up going with the Aourus Master. My first build is up and running will transition my stuff today. The only issue I have is that the stock cooler fan seems to be making more noise than expected so I'll have to make sure that's the cause of the whine I hear. Can't handle noise; I always need silence.

If it is the CPU fan then I'll probably go with that NH-U14S and look into liquid cooling for the 3950x, which i should probably do anyway.

Thanks again everyone, you all are awesome. I'd give you all kudos for your help but more likely to give you a wafer thing mint.

yeah you don't want the stock cooler on either one def not the 3950x. You don't necessarily have to go w/ liquid though. they are actually noisier than an air cooler when you add in the extra fans (especially push pull) and the pump. personally i am still running the stock cooler on my 3800x and it revs up all the time and gets on my nerves too. think i am going w/ the noctua nh-d15s (originally thought i was going w/ the coolermaster ma620m because it looks awesome and had some good reviews and then i've seen some mediocre reviews on it so kinda scared now. so guess i'm gonna go the function over form route and get something tried and true even though it doesn't look as good. anyway,

check out my post in this thread about when i had to email noctua about the difference between the regular d15 the d15-se am4 and the d15 s https://hardforum.com/threads/asus-...cooler-that-will-fit.1988794/#post-1044427601 it's at the bottom
 

pgwalsh

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yeah you don't want the stock cooler on either one def not the 3950x. You don't necessarily have to go w/ liquid though. they are actually noisier than an air cooler when you add in the extra fans (especially push pull) and the pump. personally i am still running the stock cooler on my 3800x and it revs up all the time and gets on my nerves too. think i am going w/ the noctua nh-d15s (originally thought i was going w/ the coolermaster ma620m because it looks awesome and had some good reviews and then i've seen some mediocre reviews on it so kinda scared now. so guess i'm gonna go the function over form route and get something tried and true even though it doesn't look as good. anyway,

check out my post in this thread about when i had to email noctua about the difference between the regular d15 the d15-se am4 and the d15 s https://hardforum.com/threads/asus-...cooler-that-will-fit.1988794/#post-1044427601 it's at the bottom
That's a great reply from Noctura. I may go with that cooler as well even though AMD recommends water cooling. Not sure if I'll get myself in trouble.
 

pgwalsh

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698
Ok... So the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master is back-ordered until Feb 06, but the unity board is in stock. Should I just switch?
 
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