Finally ditching my X-fi Forte for a USB/DAC solution

[Godmachine]

So after constant frustration with my X-fi Forte 7.1 and its popping issues in Windows 7 and Auzentech's every 2000 year release cycle with new drivers that only fix one small issue instead of the one that probably is the bane of everyone that owns this piece of shit sound card. I could go on about it paragraph after paragraph but I digress ...

I'm thinking of getting this : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004357WL8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A15OOFJ01NGILN

Has gotten some pretty good reviews and I do enjoy the warm sound of a tube amp. My problem is this .. it'll be driving my Sennheiser HD650's and they aren't exactly an easy set of cans to drive. I've used amps on them before and have received mixed results in turn.. I know that a USB/DAC is the right way to go for these cans but do you guys think the one I linked is good enough to drive them properly? I really don't want to go through returning it as at the moment I'm without a car and would have to rely on others at there whim to get a ride anywhere near a UPS store to return if it didn't work out.

 

[m3ta1head]

I have the EF2 (low gain version) and it drives my HD600s beautifully. The amp is excellent for the money, you'd be hard pressed to find something better for under $400 (let alone with a built in DAC). The DAC is adequate, but I noticed an appreciable difference when I started using my Xonar STX as a source instead, so it is worth upgrading down the line if you have the money. Overall, I'm really satisfied with mine and would highly recommend it. It gets a lot of praise over at head-fi too.

ps: should add that tube rolling with this little guy is a lot of fun and can really change the characteristics of the amp. read up on head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/t/433150/review-head-direct-com-hifiman-ef2-tube-hybrid-amp-with-usb-dac

 

[skeeder]

tubes normally are pricey, so its a good find. for the price I think I paid $120 for my pimeta years ago...it would be a fun test drive unit for the price.

 

[Draygonn]

I could go on about it paragraph after paragraph but I digress ...

I know how you feel.

 

[oshia86]

I have a feeling that EF2 is gonna leave you wanting more. I tried a lot of stuff recommended in the $200 range, and nothing pleased me. Ended up over doubling my budget to get something worth it. Everyone is different though.

 

[BassTek]

I have a feeling that EF2 is gonna leave you wanting more. I tried a lot of stuff recommended in the $200 range, and nothing pleased me. Ended up over doubling my budget to get something worth it. Everyone is different though.

What did you try and what did you end up with? I'm headed down a similar road as the OP minus the DAC requirement. Seems like there are lots of options in the sub $250 range for recommended tube amps these days (HiFiman, Little Dot, Bottlehead DIY, Maverick) and it's tough to choose. Having the DAC/Tube in one limits it quite a bit though.

 

[oshia86]

Little dot mk2, Essence STX, Fiio E10. All were touted as the best <= $200 option. I ended up with the Nufore HDP. The sound and connectivity of it has won me over.

 

[Godmachine]

Just to update , I had all kinds of issues with my EF2 , weird popping sounds and it would randomly cut out during play back. After trying to figure out my issues (reinstalled windows , various other things I tried) I decided to return it and go with the Fiio E7/E9 combo.

Working out great so far , very warm sound as well from this little guy.

 

[m3ta1head]

Just to update , I had all kinds of issues with my EF2 , weird popping sounds and it would randomly cut out during play back. After trying to figure out my issues (reinstalled windows , various other things I tried) I decided to return it and go with the Fiio E7/E9 combo.

Working out great so far , very warm sound as well from this little guy.

Sounds like you got a faulty EF2....bummer it didn't work out for you. A simple RMA would have taken care of things, hifiman has excellent customer support.

 

[Markdek]

Best to convert to digital (usb) outside the PC...........

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Just to update , I had all kinds of issues with my EF2 , weird popping sounds and it would randomly cut out during play back. After trying to figure out my issues (reinstalled windows , various other things I tried) I decided to return it and go with the Fiio E7/E9 combo.

Working out great so far , very warm sound as well from this little guy.

Do you game at all? I like my e9 but I really like having the option of Dolby headphone or cmss3d or thx tru-studio. Right now I'm using a xonar dx with the line out going to the fiio e9. I like it.

 

[Godmachine]

Sounds like you got a faulty EF2....bummer it didn't work out for you. A simple RMA would have taken care of things, hifiman has excellent customer support.

Yea but honestly even when it did work I felt that the sound from the tubes was a bit lack luster ..almost flat and uncolored which was not what I was expecting from all the praise I've read about it , I know there is a 200 hour burn in period for tubes to hit there stride but I think I would require better tubes for it to really shine and I just want a low "fuck with" factor , just want it to work right from the get go. If I had more time for tweaking with my life currently I would buy a Matrix DAC or something higher quality but I really like how the E7/E9 combo works great for home and the E7 on the go with its 80 hour battery life per charge is a godsend for travel. I've actually made an Altoids DIY amp tin before and had it fail when I was much more into it , the E7 combines a very decent sounding DAC with an amp for under $100.

Best to convert to digital (usb) outside the PC...........

And that's exactly what I did ...

Do you game at all? I like my e9 but I really like having the option of Dolby headphone or cmss3d or thx tru-studio. Right now I'm using a xonar dx with the line out going to the fiio e9. I like it.

I game a ton in fact , never been that impressed with Dolby Headphone or CMSS3D before as I felt like they really didn't effectively add a ton of depth to the experience. I've tried the ASUS STX before and had driver issues and some crackling with it , the sound quality was just incredible though for the money when it did work. No experience with the Xonar DX but I'm pretty satisfied with the E7 DAC , I think unless I'm going to be buying a lot of SVCD or DVD Audio albums that take advantage of 96/24 then I wouldn't really benefit from it in terms of music catalog I have and most of the stuff I watch on my PC.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

I game a ton in fact , never been that impressed with Dolby Headphone or CMSS3D before as I felt like they really didn't effectively add a ton of depth to the experience. I've tried the ASUS STX before and had driver issues and some crackling with it , the sound quality was just incredible though for the money when it did work. No experience with the Xonar DX but I'm pretty satisfied with the E7 DAC , I think unless I'm going to be buying a lot of SVCD or DVD Audio albums that take advantage of 96/24 then I wouldn't really benefit from it in terms of music catalog I have and most of the stuff I watch on my PC.

I used to say the same thing but apparently I didn't set it up properly. You really do need to set window to 5.1 and the creative or asus control panel to headphones for either solution to sound right. The do cause a difference in sound quality but I think that the trade off is worth it just to get rid of that hard left to right panning. As always audio is subjective.

I actually just picked up the xonar dx just to play around with dolby headphone and it sounds great in Skyrim.

 

[Godmachine]

I used to say the same thing but apparently I didn't set it up properly. You really do need to set window to 5.1 and the creative or asus control panel to headphones for either solution to sound right. The do cause a difference in sound quality but I think that the trade off is worth it just to get rid of that hard left to right panning. As always audio is subjective.

I actually just picked up the xonar dx just to play around with dolby headphone and it sounds great in Skyrim.

Oh I set it up right , I made sure of that and I even spent time adjusting the overall strength of the effect. I still didn't find it provided any kind of advantage per say but instead just the opposite , sometimes it wouldn't position the sound correctly , I would follow it and get killed. It also wasn't an issue of lousy cans either I was using my HD600's which have an excellent sound stage.

I wouldn't mind trying it again but I think I'll just keep what I got for now.

 

[m3ta1head]

Yea but honestly even when it did work I felt that the sound from the tubes was a bit lack luster ..almost flat and uncolored which was not what I was expecting from all the praise I've read about it , I know there is a 200 hour burn in period for tubes to hit there stride but I think I would require better tubes for it to really shine and I just want a low "fuck with" factor , just want it to work right from the get go. If I had more time for tweaking with my life currently I would buy a Matrix DAC or something higher quality but I really like how the E7/E9 combo works great for home and the E7 on the go with its 80 hour battery life per charge is a godsend for travel. I've actually made an Altoids DIY amp tin before and had it fail when I was much more into it , the E7 combines a very decent sounding DAC with an amp for under $100.

Glad to hear you're happy with the Fiio combo. I find the EF2 to be quite colored, most noticeably in the midrange which is warm and slightly forward. This also varies with tubes. The stock tubes are OK, they do sound slightly stale at first and they are a bit bright until you burn them in, but I still swap my stock tubes in regularly and get enjoyment out of them. I find the Mullards to be the best overall tube for this amp for both my D2000s and HD600s...with both headphones I get even more tight and impactful bass along with a bigger soundscape, warm midrange, and sparkling high end. The mullards also really help tame some of the high end from the stock tubes, but they don't sound recessed or rolled off-just the right amount of brightness without being fatiguing.

The DAC is probably the most limiting factor of the EF2. I made what I thought would be a relatively small upgrade in source (Xonar STX), and the DAC from the STX feeding into the EF2 opened up the amp even more, revealing considerably more detail over the built in DAC. Needless to say this amp scales really well with sources, and I can't imagine what an even better unit would sound like feeding the EF2.

Anyway, have fun with the Fiio, and hopefully you decide to give the EF2 another chance in the future. Personally, I don't think I'll ever get rid of mine...even when I eventually upgrade my desktop rig (looking at the Melos SHA-1), I'll keep it around for travelling because of how convenient the form factor is

 

[Godmachine]

I use to use an old tube amp for my headphones ages ago but my one of my brother's friends smashed it up during a fight with my brother (lol) and sadly I've yet to be able to reproduce that warm , sharp and very colorful sound.

I know its more than possible but I don't have the budget to allow for thousands of dollars to be allocated to headphone amps , the most I would ever spend would be around $600. But thank you , I am enjoying the Fiio thus far Its a handy little sucker that's for sure.

 

[diredesire]

I have the Forte... the original had the dreaded helicopter/buzz after some time issue, and they magically issued me an RMA after the warranty period was up. The new one has a similar problem, except it's "garbled" audio after a long time. To be fair, it seems to be caused by either:
Winamp/Skype/Starcraft 2/Adobe Flash, or a combination of the above.

I'm currently looking into getting either an Essence STX or the Titanium HD... any other options I should be looking at? I'm also considering a DAC/AMP combo, but I've got some other requirements (voice chat, etc). I'd like my software setup to be as simple as possible.

 

[TESLA]

The "garbled" audio is due to a bug in the X-Fi drivers under 64-bit. You might have the same issue with the Titanium HD.

If I was to get a new sound card, it would be the STX. As for STX versus external, it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend and if you want Dolby Headphone.

As for the OP, the EF-2 is a hybrid amplifier and should drive the 650s decently enough. The 650s sing with tubes, but I wouldn't attempt a pure tube setup at your price range, stick to hybrid designs, like the EF-2.

As others have noted, many use the Fiio E7/E9 combo with the 650s and report great success. Schiit is another good brand with excellent quality and products potentially inside your price range so give them a look, too.

 

[Godmachine]

The "garbled" audio is due to a bug in the X-Fi drivers under 64-bit. You might have the same issue with the Titanium HD.

If I was to get a new sound card, it would be the STX. As for STX versus external, it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend and if you want Dolby Headphone.

As for the OP, the EF-2 is a hybrid amplifier and should drive the 650s decently enough. The 650s sing with tubes, but I wouldn't attempt a pure tube setup at your price range, stick to hybrid designs, like the EF-2.

As others have noted, many use the Fiio E7/E9 combo with the 650s and report great success. Schiit is another good brand with excellent quality and products potentially inside your price range so give them a look, too.

Appreciate the advice but you obviously only read the first post ...

I returned the EF-2 due to static issues and found the sound quality flat and not as warm as I thought (even after the burn in period had passed). I picked up the E7/E9 combo and am quality happy with it. I may in the future buy the E17 because it supports higher quality audio output but right now I'm satisfied with my E7/E9.

 

[diredesire]

The "garbled" audio is due to a bug in the X-Fi drivers under 64-bit. You might have the same issue with the Titanium HD.

If I was to get a new sound card, it would be the STX. As for STX versus external, it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend and if you want Dolby Headphone.

As for the OP, the EF-2 is a hybrid amplifier and should drive the 650s decently enough. The 650s sing with tubes, but I wouldn't attempt a pure tube setup at your price range, stick to hybrid designs, like the EF-2.

As others have noted, many use the Fiio E7/E9 combo with the 650s and report great success. Schiit is another good brand with excellent quality and products potentially inside your price range so give them a look, too.

I'll believe it when a fix is out, and/or when I haven't spent several months looking through "fix" threads that are talking about shielding and/isolating PCI style brackets. There were also extremely hot/overheating FETs on my original card... I can't blame it (all) on driver support...

(Is there a documented fix?)

 

[TESLA]

Well so... there are many issues with the card.

The card has a grounding issue, which causes hum, but when I read through your post, it sounded as if you had RMAed the first card and that the second did not have the problem to the extent as the first.

The card also has driver issues, as do all X-Fi based cards.

I just assumed that since you had fixed the first issue (I thought you had, anyway) that the second issue was what you were talking about.

I am no fan of the Forte, believe me.

I'll believe it when a fix is out, and/or when I haven't spent several months looking through "fix" threads that are talking about shielding and/isolating PCI style brackets. There were also extremely hot/overheating FETs on my original card... I can't blame it (all) on driver support...

(Is there a documented fix?)

 

[TESLA]

Sorry, when reading threads during breaks at work I usually move through them quite quickly. I remembered the post about someone trying the EF-2, but I did not match the post to your forum name and just assumed it was someone else giving feedback.

Appreciate the advice but you obviously only read the first post ...

I returned the EF-2 due to static issues and found the sound quality flat and not as warm as I thought (even after the burn in period had passed). I picked up the E7/E9 combo and am quality happy with it. I may in the future buy the E17 because it supports higher quality audio output but right now I'm satisfied with my E7/E9.

 

[Riddleofsteel]

So it's not just me with the garbled audio with a Titanium HD. I haven't been able to fix it. I want to replace it, so I think I'm going with a Xonar DX for the forseeable future. I know the Essence STX seems to be the flagship xonar, but I wonder if the additional 100+ dollars is worth it.

 

[Godmachine]

So it's not just me with the garbled audio with a Titanium HD. I haven't been able to fix it. I want to replace it, so I think I'm going with a Xonar DX for the forseeable future. I know the Essence STX seems to be the flagship xonar, but I wonder if the additional 100+ dollars is worth it.

If you have a nice pair of headphones than the STX is worth while or if you plan to upgrade to a really nice pair , its a great for future proofing.

If you don't mind dumping the money into now it'll serve your needs for virtually anything you buy in the future. There's a big reason why people always recommend it.

 

[Yobbles]

I have a tube headphone amp (LunchboxPro) and I don't hear any dif between it and my SS audiolab 8000A integrated amp. Waste of my money, thanks headfi.

 

[Riddleofsteel]

If you have a nice pair of headphones than the STX is worth while or if you plan to upgrade to a really nice pair , its a great for future proofing.

If you don't mind dumping the money into now it'll serve your needs for virtually anything you buy in the future. There's a big reason why people always recommend it.

Was thinking of getting the Beresford dac, since I'm 90% sure I'm switching to a laptop.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

If you have a nice pair of headphones than the STX is worth while or if you plan to upgrade to a really nice pair , its a great for future proofing.

If you don't mind dumping the money into now it'll serve your needs for virtually anything you buy in the future. There's a big reason why people always recommend it.

I've been using a Xonar DX + Fiio e9 combo. It actually cost me less than an STX. I've been very pleased with it so far.

So it's not just me with the garbled audio with a Titanium HD. I haven't been able to fix it. I want to replace it, so I think I'm going with a Xonar DX for the forseeable future. I know the Essence STX seems to be the flagship xonar, but I wonder if the additional 100+ dollars is worth it.

Yeah, I see too but thankfully only when windows is set to 5.1 and at 44.1 or 48 khz sampling rate for some reason. In stereo or 5.1 and a 96khz sampling rate its fine.

What I didn't like is Creative's support. They tell me that I shouldn't be able to set windows at 5.1 and that cmss-3d and thx tru-studio don't take advantage of a multi-channel signal dispite the description of thx tru-studio surround says on their website and what their support page says here. Fuck Creative, I'll stick with my Xonar. I think that dolby headphone sounds better with any game that doesn't use hardware acceleration (which is most of them) anyways.

 

[Godmachine]

Was thinking of getting the Beresford dac, since I'm 90% sure I'm switching to a laptop.

Ahh well in that case I recommend the Fiio E9 and the forthcoming Fiio E17 which looks to be really awesome and fits snug into Fiio E9 charging port. The Fiio E17 also supports 96/24 (as well as higher bit rate 192 through coax) through USB 2.0 which is something MANY lower priced DAC's simply can't do (most require a coax or optical link for anything higher than 48/16).

If you want a site with a lot of DAC/AMP combo's I would recommend audiophilechina for its nice catalog of different options. I hear the Little Dot MKV is pretty nice as well.

 

[haunter]

Ahh well in that case I recommend the Fiio E9 and the forthcoming Fiio E17 which looks to be really awesome and fits snug into Fiio E9 charging port. The Fiio E17 also supports 96/24 (as well as higher bit rate 192 through coax) through USB 2.0 which is something MANY lower priced DAC's simply can't do (most require a coax or optical link for anything higher than 48/16).

If you want a site with a lot of DAC/AMP combo's I would recommend audiophilechina for its nice catalog of different options. I hear the Little Dot MKV is pretty nice as well.

I see alot of places recommending the E7 over the E17 due to the cost/perf diff