Final Build Spec, please post comments or thoughts!

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Punkrulz

[H]ard|Gawd
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That's it... 2 more W2's and I'll be ordering my new computer! This spec was put together by you guys not too long ago. I want to keep the cost under $1000, and I'm also aiming for a quiet PC. I do have a few questions, but I am more interested in hearing your thoughts or comments if this should be upgraded in any way. Anything that can be done to cut costs I will do. I will probably swap out the PSU, as I don't need modular at this time. This is a non-SLI gaming PC, I intend on staying with my 22" LCD screen and not going dual.

Case: Cooler Master 690 ($80)
Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro LGA P45 ($119)
Processor: Intel C2D E8400 3.0GHz ($165)
HSF: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 ($36)
HSF Retention: Xigmatek ACK-I7751 ($9)
Video: MSI N260GTX 192cores ($230?)
Memory: OCZ Fatal1ty 2x2gb DDR2 800 ($39)
PSU: Corsair Modular 620W HX - ($160)
HD: Western Digital Caviar 7200RPM 500gb SATA ($60)
CDRom: LiteOn 22x DVDRW w/ Lightscribe ($30)

Total cost before taxes & shipping: $928

A few questions:
1) What are your thoughts for this?
2) Someone in my other forums recommended going to the E8500 C2D + 1066MHz memory, as I would be able to reach 4.0GHz speeds at stock voltages. What are your thoughts, and should I do this?
3) Since I'm looking for a quiet system, if I go with the CM 690, should I replace the stock 120mm fans w/ some aftermarket ones?

I appreciate any input you guys can give me on this, thanks!
 
Punkrulz, the E8400 and E8500 are based off the same Wolfdale core -- they're both capable of reaching 4GHz. However, the recommendation for DDR2 1000 (or DDR2 1066, if priced around the same) is sound. (You could replace the case fans if quiet operation is a must... but check out Silent PC Review for recommendations.)

xxshawnxx, mail-in rebates do not translate into instant savings (at checkout). Plus, they aren't 100% guaranteed, no matter how careful or how diligent you are with them. That said, the before-rebate price of the PC P&C S75CF is excellent, and the PSU should be considered if the OP doesn't "need" the modular cables of the HX620.
 
tiraides- Agreed. I've received every rebate I've sent out, but I know I'm in the minority. Great point!
 
Thanks for the great responses guys. So you're saying I should upgrade my memory regardless? Should it be 1000mhz or 1066mhz? I want to get the best performance, and I know I heard before that I should stick with the MHz that the processor can handle. I may have still had the 800MHz from when I was speccing quad core.

I don't need the modular cables right now... but I'm still deciding. Price is a huge factor and I will be holding off on getting a window for the case... so I may avoid it. I'll check out the power supplies. Unfortunately besides Corsair I don't know what a "good" PSU is, so I'll check out the one you linked as well.
 
Just a reminder, the P5Q has a $15 off promo code at Newegg: EMCABBDBK in addition to the $15 MIR. It expires on 1/19.
 
Might want to consider a CM590 instead of the 690 to save $10. I've heard people actually prefer the 590 to the 690. My CM590 fans are pretty quiet, although I don't know how much noise you can personally tolerate.

Consider the EVGA GTX 260 216 instead, because it's not that much more (unless you're confident in the rebate).

I've heard Lite-On drives aren't the greatest. Consider this Samsung drive instead.
 
Punkrulz said:
Thanks for the great responses guys. So you're saying I should upgrade my memory regardless? Should it be 1000mhz or 1066mhz? I want to get the best performance, and I know I heard before that I should stick with the MHz that the processor can handle. I may have still had the 800MHz from when I was speccing quad core.
Click to expand...

If you're planning to overclock past 3.6Ghz, then go with either DDR2 1000 or DDR2 1066 RAM which ever is cheaper. Either of those will help the E8400 reach past 3.6Ghz. But if you're not planning to overclock at all, then just stick with the DDR2 800 RAM as Core 2 Duo systems do not benefit from higher speed RAM outside of overclocking. In other words, a E8400 + DDR2 667 RAM will perform exactly the same as an E8400 + DDR2 1066 RAM. DDR2 800 RAM is a nice median between the two DDR2 RAM speeds since it still allows minor overclocking but comes in a better price.

If overclocking past 3.6GHz, I recommend this RAM set:
G.Skill F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 1000 RAM - $50

I also recommend spending the extra $15 for this significantly faster hard drive:
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $75

Totally worth the extra $15 since it's performance outclasses many of the older Raptor drives and it's on par with many of the new Velociraptor drives. PSU wise, I recommend getting the PC P&C 750 from amazon.com for $100 that xxshawnxx linked to. Excellent deal for a PSU. Modular cables are nice (My Corsair 520HX is modular) but they're not worth $60 extra.

If the Xigmatek bracket isn't in stock when you order, this kit will work just as well as the Xigamtek:
Thermalright LGA775 Bolt-Thru-Kit - $5
 
Thanks guys. Unfortunately I do not know if I am going to be able to order the parts by the 19th; still waiting for 2 more W2's before I can even think about submitting my taxes. So I will be missing out on that rebate.

Are there any better motherboards out there for around the same price? Or is the Asus the board to go with?

With the memory, will there be any performance loss if I do get faster memory and don't overclock? Or is everything the same and I just see a gain when I go to overclock?

With the video card, is the EVGA a better card? Or is it just the rebate people are concerned with the MSI?

I'll double check everything with the PSU. I'm sure I can spend the extra time to just make it look nice when I do get a window for the PC. I'll also continue to decide on the 590 or 690 (590 was my choice for the longest time, I'm not sure what made me choose the 690 now).

Thanks!
 
There aren't any better motherboard per se but equal quality motherboards:
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 Motherboard - $135

Just choose the mobo with the features you want and the company you like best.

No performance loss nor decrease if you get faster RAM and don't overclock. You'll be able to take advantage of that RAM once your overclock. Some math:
Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Actual FSB x 4 = Stated FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
1:1 Ratio: 2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed
1:1 Ratio: FSB = 1/2 RAM speed
Note that C2D systems don't see a performance increase with any ratio higher than 1:1

E8400:
Multi x Actual FSB, Stated FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
9 x 333Mhz, 1333Mhz, DDR2 667 RAM = 3.0Ghz <== Stock Speeds
9 x 400Mhz, 1600Mhz, DDR2 800 RAM = 3.6Ghz <== Easy OC
9 x 450Mhz, 1800Mhz, DDR2 900 RAM = 4.0Ghz <== Excellent OC
9 x 500Mhz, 2000Mhz, DDR2 1000 RAM = 4.5Ghz <== If you're EXTREMELY lucky

Well the eVGA card has a lifetime warranty. It isn't that much faster than the MSI GTX 260 and therefore not fast enough to justify the extra $30. However it does use a little bit less energy than the MSI GTX 260. Decide for your self if the tiny performance increase, lower energy usage, and lifetime warranty is worth the extra $30.
 
Thanks for the help guys, more things to consider.

Just one side question for now: The PC Power and Cooling S75CF PSU... is that a good quality PSU? Never heard of it, and as I have mentioned before I can't tell the difference between a quality PSU and not...

Thanks!
 
Punkrulz said:
Just one side question for now: The PC Power and Cooling S75CF PSU... is that a good quality PSU? Never heard of it, and as I have mentioned before I can't tell the difference between a quality PSU and not...
Click to expand...

Yes the S75CF is a good quality PSU. To know whether or not a PSU is good, just look up reviews for it from reputable PSU review sites like jonnyguru.com or hardocp.com.
 
Danny,

My math has always sucked. I've spent the past 30 minutes understanding your posting, and trying to compare that to memory. Here is my conclusion, please tell me if I am right or wrong:

My initial spec was going to be DDR2 800. I'm to assume that DDR2-800 really means 1600MHz, yes?

Also, since you're stating that C2D's only benefit from 1:1 ratio (nothing more), this would mean that my FSB would be running at 1600MHz, and my memory would be running at MHz, making the 1:1 in fact true.

Those motherboards state that the memory standard for them is 1600/1333MHz, or DDR2-800 / DDR2-667. I understand that everything can be tweaked... and you're saying I can get a 4GHz OC on the motherboards, by using DDR2-900 memory. Will that memory work with the motherboards?

Further Edits: Ok, so I've modified my list a little bit to incorporate more of the changes you guys have suggested, including the EVGA video, the faster HD, the better memory. I changed my PSU to the 650w Corsair (not modular), which rings in pretty cheap after rebate but at least $99 before hand. Unless you guys have a different one on Newegg, I'm right there with it for now. I'm digging that the 590 has the front USB ports... not a huge fan of the front-back facing 3 1/2 bays for HD's, but I may be able to work with that. Just stinks that USB panel differs in color. Still not sure.

Would that case be able to comfortably hold the long EVGA?

Updated Price: $999.54 w/ taxes & shipping... YIKES!!!
 
DDR2 800 means 800Mhz RAM speed.

OK, the RAM speed is determined, when the FSB and RAM are at a 1:1 ratio, by multiplying the actual FSB speed by 2. The actual FSB speed is found by dividing the stated FSB by 4. So in your example with the FSB at 1600Mhz, the actual FSB would be 400Mhz since 1600Mhz divided by 4 is 400Mhz. Therefore the RAM speed is 800Mhz since the actual 400Mhz FSB multiplied by 2 equals 800Mhz.

So with the FSB at 1600Mhz, the RAM speed would be 800Mhz. Also note that there isn't any actual DDR2 900 RAM out here, at least not anymore. However DDR2 1000 RAM or DDR2 1066 RAM can be run at DDR2 900 speeds should you require it. DDR2 1000 RAM will work with most mobos

The RC-590 will fit the GTX 260
 
Just another reassurance -- the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad is one of the best 750 watt PSUs on the market. Period. It's build by Seasonic and has some of the best DC voltage regulation available.

As a general rule, Corsair, Seasonic, Silverstone, PC Power & Cooling, Etasis, Zippy, BFG (ES series, maybe others), and Xclio are safe bets.
 
Another take on the math:
Its called DDR2 so they double the MHz; to get the real # we divide by 2. With DDR2-800 ram, the fsb on them is actually 400MHz. DDR2-1000 fsb is 500MHz, and so on.

Now lets look at the CPU. To get CPU speed, we multiply the fsb set in the BIOS times the CPU's multiplier. Every CPU has it's own multiplier. The E8400 has a multiplier of 9x. The stock fsb on the cpu is 333MHz. 9 x 333MHz = 3.0GHz, which is, not coincidentally, our stock rated CPU speed. Now if we upgrade our CPU fsb to 400MHz, and multiply it by 9, we get 3.6GHz. Match the new 400 fsb with some DDR2-800 ram, and you have a 1:1 ratio. If you want to go past 3.6GHz, you either need to overclock DDR2-800 memory, or underclock DDR-1000/1066 memory, to match the ram fsb with the CPU fsb and keep the 1:1 ratio.

This is AFAIK, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
silent-circuit said:
Just another reassurance -- the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad is one of the best 750 watt PSUs on the market. Period. It's build by Seasonic and has some of the best DC voltage regulation available.

As a general rule, Corsair, Seasonic, Silverstone, PC Power & Cooling, Etasis, Zippy, BFG (ES series, maybe others), and Xclio are safe bets.
Click to expand...

i haven't paid much attention to computer hardware in a while. so pc power and cooling is made my seasonic now?

as far as memory goes, it doesn't seem to be getting faster.. the latency is through the roof,.. 5-5-5-x for some ddr2 1066?? how does that compare to 2-2-2-x ddr 400? anyone ever test this?

i am just being random, and this probably isn't the place to post it, but.. everything seemed to hit a brick wall. multi core, memory is faster but the latency is twice as high or more.. i am trying to find a way to run an old laptop off an sd(hc) card or micro sd or whatever, because they are relatively dirt cheap.. and dell still ships $4000 severs with a 12gb os partition.. what is that crap?? seriously/?
 
another question, are there any cpu(s) that have unlocked multipliers? probably the intel extreme or whatever for almost $1000.. no mobile chips in desktop boards for anything?
 
scottatwittenberg said:
i haven't paid much attention to computer hardware in a while. so pc power and cooling is made my seasonic now?

as far as memory goes, it doesn't seem to be getting faster.. the latency is through the roof,.. 5-5-5-x for some ddr2 1066?? how does that compare to 2-2-2-x ddr 400? anyone ever test this?

i am just being random, and this probably isn't the place to post it, but.. everything seemed to hit a brick wall. multi core, memory is faster but the latency is twice as high or more.. i am trying to find a way to run an old laptop off an sd(hc) card or micro sd or whatever, because they are relatively dirt cheap.. and dell still ships $4000 severs with a 12gb os partition.. what is that crap?? seriously/?
Click to expand...

Many power supplies are made by other companies. Seasonic makes lots of power supplies for its own brand, as well as PC Power & Cooling, Antec, and Corsair, to name a few.

But the rest of your questions can be better answered through your own thread.

scottatwittenberg said:
another question, are there any cpu(s) that have unlocked multipliers? probably the intel extreme or whatever for almost $1000.. no mobile chips in desktop boards for anything?
Click to expand...

On the Intel side, only the Extreme Edition series processors (as well as AMD's Black Edition series) have unlocked multipliers.
 
tiraides said:
On the Intel side, only the Extreme Edition series processors (as well as AMD's Black Edition series) have unlocked multipliers.
Click to expand...

...and generally speaking, they don't even begin to justify the price premium. Friends don't let friends buy Extreme Editions. (Black Editions are a different story, as AMD chips have much more trouble with FSB based OCs, so an unlocked multi is useful. That, and they don't cost much if any more than the locked versions. You know, how Intel should be doing it.)
 
Ok, I think I understand mostly everything now... though I'll forget it again at some point lol. I looked up the PSU on newegg; cheaper there after rebate, though I would still need to figure out where I am ordering it from. Man... I can't get past the ugly red... blah!

How do I know if I would need a single +12 rail, or double rail PSU?
 
Single rail is generally better as you don't have to worry about load balancing, but a well designed dual or quad rail unit is fine. These would include the Thermaltake Toughpower series and Corsair HX1000 -- other HX series are single rail marketed as multi rail, but the HX1000 is dual rail.

I find it really amusing they jacked up the price on the Silencer 750 Quad Black when they ran the special on the CF.
 
Perhaps... but the contrast of a black case, blue components (mobo + memory), and a red PSU sounds kind of ugly haha. I could try to match it to the blue... that would be kind of sweet.

Another question: Looking at the video card, it requires 2 power connections. The video card also comes with 2 adapters.

1) Does power need to connect to both power connections on the video card?
2) Do I have to use the adapters?
3) If yes for #2, do I have to connect power to both ends of the power adapters (they are Y's with 2 4-pin molex connections each).

Thanks!
 
1) Yes
2) Only if your power supply does not have the required power connectors for the video card
3) Yes both ends of power connectors must be connected.
 
i don't need to bring nostalgia back here.. but the last cpu i got was an amd xp-m.. it was $77 and overclocked over 50%.. in a shuttle.. i have tone it down to a %25 overclock or so, because i am lazy, have smoke many cigarettes in the same room, its old, and i could probably replace the fan.. either way.. it has been doing stong 5 years now.. and just recently been too loud.. i could relace a fan, but obvoisly, its old shit i don't care..
 
Alright guys, finally the remainder of the parts are coming in. I have already assembled the Case, Mobo, Processor, HSF, and memory. I did have some minor complications with the HSF... was very difficult for me to install, however that was rectified. My taxes came in so I ordered the remainder of the parts today.

I did make a change, however. Again I'm trying to be as cost effective as I could be. I changed out my power supply to:

PC Power & Cooling 610w - Linky

It costs about $15 less and then throw in the rebate, is black (though that was a minor choice). Was this an ok move? Everyone else stated that 750w is overkill, and even 650 was overkill. I don't have the possibility (nor the want) of doing SLI, so I'm hoping that 610w should be sufficient enough. Just want your opinion!
 
Punkrulz said:
Alright guys, finally the remainder of the parts are coming in. I have already assembled the Case, Mobo, Processor, HSF, and memory. I did have some minor complications with the HSF... was very difficult for me to install, however that was rectified. My taxes came in so I ordered the remainder of the parts today.

I did make a change, however. Again I'm trying to be as cost effective as I could be. I changed out my power supply to:

PC Power & Cooling 610w - Linky

It costs about $15 less and then throw in the rebate, is black (though that was a minor choice). Was this an ok move? Everyone else stated that 750w is overkill, and even 650 was overkill. I don't have the possibility (nor the want) of doing SLI, so I'm hoping that 610w should be sufficient enough. Just want your opinion!
Click to expand...

610w (especially a quality 610w from PCP&C) will do you fine for this build.
 
Excellent... surprisingly newegg hasn't shipped out my stuff yet when I ordered at 9am... I still hope I get it by Monday, but we'll see. I just need to wait and see if I have any hardware issues while waiting for everything to come in... cross your fingers!
 
Sadly, I'm highly disappointed in Newegg right now. I placed the order for the parts, was done at 9:30am EST, spent the extra $3 for rush processing. Yes, it has shipped, from California. It's the 3 day shipping, and now I'm getting it 2/4/09...6 days including Friday that it's coming.

Never wasting my money with the rush ordering again.
 
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