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file server build - need some advice

S

sjreg1

n00b
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
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I'm planning on building my first file server over the summer and I'm running into a few questions I'm hoping some of you can answer.

First, here's what I've got planned for purchasing.

case - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133094
hdd - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514
cpu - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116264
mobo - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128357
psu - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020
ram - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134114
cd drive - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151175

I pretty much have to build the thing from the ground up; no extra parts and to be honest I don't really mind. This is going to strictly be physical space to hold movies, t.v. shows, personal videos/pictures I shoot, etc. So here come the questions. . .

1. Am I forgetting any materials?

I searched for a while for a server build step-by-step online and found some good sources. I haven't even built my own computer in a while so I guess I'll be looking at those as well. Aside from small items (additional cooling fans, cables, tools, etc.) am I missing anything?

2. Do I have sufficient power?

I looked at specific and general information power supply needs for the components I'm using and I think 650W is probably overdoing it a bit. However for something that's going to be on constantly and probably going to have additional drives installed in the future, it might be best to get a good quality psu with plenty of power. What do you guys think. . .am I overdoing it and ratcheting up my electricity bills or playing it smart?

3. Software. . .?

Ubuntu or Xubtunu keeps popping up for server OS's. I know there's a sticky for Windows Home Server on this forum but Xubuntu seems a lot easier (and considerably cheaper as it's free). Has anyone had problems with this?

4. OS hard drive = storage drive as well?

Should I purchase a small, separate hd to install whatever server OS I end up using or can I install it on one of the 2TB drives I'll be using for storage? I'm thinking the former so if there's a problem with the OS it won't affect any of the files I'm storing. At the same time, however, I don't plan on doing anything with this other than storing and accessing files and an OS won't take up much space. What do you guys recommend?

5. RAID?

First things first - is it necessary? Right now I have a ton of stuff on external hd's, some of which I've had for 3+ years with no problems with the drives failing. I don't access them constantly, however, so I'm guessing this is where the game will change with a file server that's always on. Should I employ a redundancy or is it unnecessary for my purposes?

Secondly, I kind of understand the theory of RAID, but with probably at least 3 separate drives holding media, am I going to need 3 additional drives as RAID backups in case they fail or can I set it up so that if one fails, the back up drive automatically covers that drive and I can just replace the broken drive? In other words, say I have 2 drives (drive 1 and drive 2) and 1 back up drive (drive 3) through RAID 0/1/5/6 or whatever. Will drive 3 back up either or will I have to designate it back up one or the other? Meaning, if drive 1 fails but the RAID is connected to back up drive 2, am I screwed? Again, my understanding of this is a bit clouded so feel free to impart some knowledge.

6. Data transfer and access.

As I said, right now I have a bunch of external hd's holding most of my files. To put everything into a server, am I just going to need to connect them via USB and transfer all the data that way? Also, for the most part, my computer and server will be very close to each other and the need for me to access my data accross a network is not really a concern for me. What's the fastest way to communicate (transfer new media and access old stuff) with the server? Meaning, will keeping this server on my network be faster than physically connecting the two?

Thanks for any input in advance.
 
sjreg1 said:
I'm planning on building my first file server over the summer and I'm running into a few questions I'm hoping some of you can answer.
Click to expand...
Yeah some of those parts you listed aren't parts we'd recommend today let alone over the summer. In fact, whatever hardware or even software recommendations we make today will probably change by the time summer hits. So if you want up-to-date advice, please come back and ask 2-3 weeks before your actual build/buy date. Doing this much hardware research so early isn't gonna help you that much.

With that said some of your questions can be answered with answers that should still be applicable by the time summer hits:

1) N/A

2) More than enough power. Yes a tad overkill. You're not increasing your electric bill since a PSU will provide the amount of power needed by the PC. So if the PC needs 300W, that's all that 650W PSU is gonna provide. With that said, you can save $16 by getting this equal quality PSU instead:
$84 - Antec Truepower New TP-650 650W PSU

Better bang for the buck value now. Not sure by Summer time though.

3) Do you have actual experience with Linux?

4) Seperate OS drive.

5) If you want guaranteed uptime, relatively easy way of file allocation (not having to remember which drive holds which data), and performance, then yes go for RAID.

You're kind of talking about RAID 5 there. Rather than go through the whole speel of explain RAID 5 to your, I recommend reading this link:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/06/11/understanding_raid/1

If you still have questions, ask them but not until after you've read that link.

6) If you have an all gigabit network (meaning the NICs on both the server and PC have Gigabit NICs, Intel recommended, and that you have a good gigabit switch), it'll be just as fast as physically connecting the two computers.
 
If you're going to build it slowly then you have time to wait for sales on specific items. I'd recommend this PSU, it routinely goes on sale for $99-109
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088

The fan on this PSU also does not start until the PSU is loaded above 200 W.

You can also wait a little bit for microcenter to have another sale on the core i3 2100, if you have one near you.

I'd recommend some form of RAID (either 1 for a few drives or 5 or 6 for a lot).
 
Danny Bui - Thanks very much for your response. . .that was pretty much exactly the kind of answering I was hoping for. . .everything individually.

I realize prices are going to change. I guess I meant that if I were to buy today, this is what I'd go for. Also, by summer I mean the end of the semester which is in two weeks for me. I'm sure prices will change between now and then, but I'm hoping to get this done by the end of May, early June.

I do have experience with Linux as an OS for normal computing. I've never built a system with it however and obviously no experience with it's server capabilities. That said, most of the guides I've been looking at so far, including one on bit-tech, have been extremely thorough and make logical sense to me.

I'm reading through the bit-tech RAID article now - thanks for the info.

osrk - I was under the impression that a file server didn't need a powerful processor? I was looking at old pentium processors that would even do the trick? Thanks for the post, though, and the support for RAID.

I thought of another question as well. . .

7. More, lower capacity drives or fewer high capacity drives?

Does it make a difference? Currently I have about 5-6TB of media so if I go with anything lower than 1TB drives, I'm going to need a pretty big case. Is it ok to use larger (i.e. 2TB) drives?
 
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sjreg1 said:
osrk - I was under the impression that a file server didn't need a powerful processor? I was looking at old pentium processors that would even do the trick? Thanks for the post, though, and the support for RAID.
Click to expand...

When compared to the older pentiums it's a beast. Compared to the current sandy bridges it's OK. When selecting that processor my thought was more along the lines of power efficiency. The performance you get from that CPU per watt is amazing. It's also pretty cheap too (i grabbed the processor and motherboard from microcenter for $100 on a sale).

Read this article it's pretty good.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i3-2100t.html
You want to maximize your performance per watt especially for a device that will be left on 24/7.
 
For a basic low power home file server I have had great luck with my Acer Aspire EasyStore. I loaded it up with 4 2Tb drives and it has never had any sort of problem.

If you keep a close eye on newegg you can find it for $349 (what I paid for mine a few months back)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...cm_re=aspire_easystore-_-59-321-016-_-Product

I run quite a few additional things off mine (iTunes streaming, web server, mysql server, email server, and uTorrent with no problems. I did try running fedora in a virtual machine for nagios and cacti monitoring on my other gear, but the result was pretty slow and not really what this box is designed for.
 
sjreg1 said:
I realize prices are going to change. I guess I meant that if I were to buy today, this is what I'd go for. Also, by summer I mean the end of the semester which is in two weeks for me. I'm sure prices will change between now and then, but I'm hoping to get this done by the end of May, early June.
Click to expand...
Well again, wait until you're about 2-3 weeks away from buying and ask for hardware advice then. We're not helping you at all if we're recommend hardware for a build that won't be built till late May, early June.

sjreg1 said:
I do have experience with Linux as an OS for normal computing. I've never built a system with it however and obviously no experience with it's server capabilities. That said, most of the guides I've been looking at so far, including one on bit-tech, have been extremely thorough and make logical sense to me.
Click to expand...
Well I recommend trying out Linux as a server OS first in a virtual machine. That way you'll get a feel for the software, find out the pitfalls, and see for yourself if that's the right solution for you. Do note that the guide on bit-tech is about 4 years out of date. So some of might not be doable or recommended any more.

sjreg1 said:
7. More, lower capacity drives or fewer high capacity drives?

Does it make a difference? Currently I have about 5-6TB of media so if I go with anything lower than 1TB drives, I'm going to need a pretty big case. Is it ok to use larger (i.e. 2TB) drives?
Click to expand...

Fewer higher capacity drives since it allows for more hard drives to be added later and uses less power. Go ahead and use 2TB drives.
 
Alright. I'm ready to buy probably today.

I'm thinking I'm going to do RAID 5 so I'll need the physical space I'm planning on using plus one disk for parity, right? Can anyone recommend a good RAID 5 card?

Also, I'd like to make a 'how to' of all this and was curious if there was a way to take screenshots during installation of XUbuntu? Thanks again for your help.
 
Forgot to post this in my earlier posts: RAID IS NOT BACKUP! It does not protect against malicious or accidental corruption, deletion, removal, manipulation, or theft of data. All it does is guarantee uptime in the event of a hard drive failure. So definitely keep those external HDDs around for true backup.
sjreg1 said:
Alright. I'm ready to buy probably today.

I'm thinking I'm going to do RAID 5 so I'll need the physical space I'm planning on using plus one disk for parity, right? Can anyone recommend a good RAID 5 card?

Also, I'd like to make a 'how to' of all this and was curious if there was a way to take screenshots during installation of XUbuntu? Thanks again for your help.
Click to expand...
If you're using Linux, you don't need a true hardware RAID card since you can use Linux MDADM software RAID. As such, you should be fine using the onboard SATA ports of whatever mobo you go with.

As for the main PC itself, please answer these questions so that we can better tailor our recommendations:
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
3) Where do you live?
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.

sjreg1 said:
Just out of curiosity, why?
Click to expand...
Because those drives won't work well with many true hardware RAID controllers out there due to the lack of TLER that that the WD Green drives have. Hence if you're going with a true hardware RIAD controller, stick with Hitachi or Samsung non-Green drives. However if you use a non-Windows software RAID solution, those Green drives will be fine.
 
sjreg1 said:
6. Data transfer and access.

As I said, right now I have a bunch of external hd's holding most of my files. To put everything into a server, am I just going to need to connect them via USB and transfer all the data that way? Also, for the most part, my computer and server will be very close to each other and the need for me to access my data accross a network is not really a concern for me. What's the fastest way to communicate (transfer new media and access old stuff) with the server? Meaning, will keeping this server on my network be faster than physically connecting the two?

Thanks for any input in advance.
Click to expand...

I would use a SATA or (PATA) connection to transfer the files.
 
Okay. I have a whole bunch of new questions now, but first I'll answer Danny Bui's (thanks again, your posts have been very helpful).

1. This computer is pretty much solely meant for file storage. I have a bunch of movies, music, and personal video and audio files that I need to store and having 4+ external drives is just kind of cumbersome. SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND. . .I'm not going to be constantly accessing these files. Thus, the disks aren't going to be constantly under heavy access or load. Additionally, I'm pretty much the only one using them so they won't be being accessed by multiple people at once. I just need/want a single unit to house everything rather than hauling around a bunch of externals.

2. I'd like to keep this as inexpensive as possible. The original post I made put me around $500-$650 including shipping and taxes. The cheaper the better I guess, but I don't mind spending a little more if it means consistency, reliability, and performance.

3. I live in NY.

4. Based on what I think a server needs, I need:
- case
- cpu
- motherboard
- power source
- cd drive (although I've read people have installed XUbuntu from a flash drive?)
- 3-4 2TB disk drives
- 1-2GB RAM

Please note this is what I THINK I need. I very well may be missing components.

5. I have no old parts or previous parts.

6. I'm ready to buy this week and begin building as soon as it all arrives.

7. Seeing as all I'm using this system for is file storage, the motherboard shouldn't need to be excessively complex. RAID is obviously a must, but other than that I don't think I'll need a lot of bells and whistles.

Here are some additional questions I had.

8. What is software raid? I did as much reading as I could find about MDADM. I understand what it is but not how it works. Does the software perform parity or backup computations in the case of RAID 5? Is this something that is setup during initial installation? Do I need any additional hardware?

9. Should I really keep my external HDs? I was kind of hoping to sell some of them to make some of the money back from this build. As my previous post mentions, I've never had one of them fail; mostly I imagine because I don't really access them that heavily. Can I keep one and just zip all the hard disks together and store a backup of the files in that one external?

Thanks again for any input.
 
sjreg1 said:
8. What is software raid? I did as much reading as I could find about MDADM. I understand what it is but not how it works. Does the software perform parity or backup computations in the case of RAID 5? Is this something that is setup during initial installation? Do I need any additional hardware?
Click to expand...

Software RAID is basically any form of RAID where all of the parity calculations and the setup/maintenance of the RAID array are not done by a dedicated XOR engine or parity CPU. Software RAID generally uses the PC's CPU to do all of those parity calcultions and either drivers or firmware to maintains and setup the RAID array itself.

You can find out more about MDADM here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mdadm
How to create RAID using Ubuntu Software RAID
Linux Software RAID
sjreg1 said:
9. Should I really keep my external HDs? I was kind of hoping to sell some of them to make some of the money back from this build. As my previous post mentions, I've never had one of them fail; mostly I imagine because I don't really access them that heavily. Can I keep one and just zip all the hard disks together and store a backup of the files in that one external?.
Click to expand...
If all of your critical and absolutely hard to replace or irreplaceable data can fit into that one external, then go ahead and keep one or however many it takes to fit all that irreplaceble/hard to replace data. And then keep an extra one for future expansion of that data.

EDIT: forgot to add the prelim build:
$61 - AMD Athlon II X2 250 CPU
$67 - Asus M4A78LT-M LE AMD 780L mATX Motherboard
$41 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$45 - Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$320 - 4 x Samsung Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$21 - Samsung SH-S222AB SATA DVD Burner
$64 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
$60 - Cooler Master HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 ATX Case
----
Total: $679 shipped

Notes:
- That WD 500GB drive is for the OS basically. And before you ask, there aren't any cheaper drives out there that have a similar bang for the buck value in terms of both performance GB per cents.
- Those four 2TB drives will net you 6TB of RAID 5 storage
- Both the case and mobo can support up to 6 hard drives right off the bat. So that should last you a while.
- Went with 4GB of RAM as a precaution.
 
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Danny Bui - Thanks again for the information and suggestions. Is there anything particular about the cpu/mobo setup you've selected? I was pretty well set on the ones I had and don't need the quantity of RAM or quality of case you list. Also, does anyone have any recommendations for where to purchase this besides newegg? I don't have any problem with ordering all of it from them and all my experiences with them have been excellent. I'm just curious if there are any other places.
 
sjreg1 said:
Danny Bui - Thanks again for the information and suggestions. Is there anything particular about the cpu/mobo setup you've selected? I was pretty well set on the ones I had and don't need the quantity of RAM or quality of case you list.
Click to expand...

Yeah the main key advantages my CPU + mobo + RAM are:
- My mobo uses DDR3 RAM (which means cheaper overall RAM and cheaper upgrade) and can support up to 6 hard drives unlike yours which uses DDR2 RAM which is overpriced and expensive to upgrade. Not to mention it only supported four drives.

- The X2 250 outperforms the Celeron E3300/E3400 by quite a large margin. As such, like many socket 775 CPUs, those Celeron CPUs have a really really shitty price to performance ratio.

- Case wise, your case choice could only officially support 4 hard drives. The case I chose can support up to 6 officially.

- More RAM never hurts.
 
Damn you're good. I wish everyone I dealt with online was this direct. I'll post when everything's on its way.
 
Alright, update time.

I've gotten the machine together and installed XUbuntu. It starts up fine and everything's fine so far. I haven't connected any of the 2TB drives yet because I realized I don't have the power or the data slots available. Getting the additional SATA power and data cables is easy enough, but I don't have enough SATA slots on the motherboard to cover all the drives. Is a SATA controller card as simple as just plugging it in to a PCI slot and attaching the extra drives?

I was thinking of this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132013.
 
Everything's installed and I've got a problem.

Ubuntu was running fine and then I installed a controller card in addition to all the blank 2TB hard drives. BIOS Boot order recognizes the card and the cd drive I attached to it but not the 500GB drive I installed Ubuntu on. However, when I started the computer, it won't run Ubuntu. It just presents a black screen with the cursor blinking and I can't type anything. Anybody have an idea what might be wrong? Thanks in advance.

edit - Nevermind. Bad install of OS.
 
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What happens when you move the 500GB back to the motherboard?
 
I found the problem - a bad install of Xubuntu.

I figure my next step is hard drive partitioning as BIOS recognizes all my drives and their correct sizes but I can't find them in the OS. I entered

sudo fdisk -l

and got the 'Disk /dev/sdb doesn't contain a valid partition table' message for all the additional drives I have. I'm assuming I can just use Gparted or something to do that and I should have the space available, right? Thanks again.
 
What do you mean you cannot find the drives in the OS? If `fdisk -l` lists them, then you have found them. As for the next step, depending on what you want to do you can either partition and install fileystems, or just install a filesystem to the block device without partitioning.
 
I mean I can't figure out how to send data to them for storage. They don't show up in system or as recognized drives on the desktop anywhere. Understand I haven't done this before with Linux - installed new drives with an OS already going on a separate drive.

What I want to do for now is partition the whole lot (8TB) as one drive to transfer media to. Any input is appreciated. Thanks.
 
It does not sound like you have enough research or spent enough time planning your system configuration. You should probably do some reading and thinking before you continue.

Here are some topics you may want to read about, depending on your goals and requirements:

fdisk
gparted
ext4
XFS
mdadm
SnapRAID
FlexRAID
linux LVM
mhddfs
samba
 
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I agree, however I have read about most of those things and a few articles have been posted in this thread and I've read all of them. What I don't know is how to execute what I want and there's a lot of different information, most of it dated, that I'm trying to sieve through. I'll get some more information before I ask anything else.
 
sjreg1 said:
I found the problem - a bad install of Xubuntu.

I figure my next step is hard drive partitioning as BIOS recognizes all my drives and their correct sizes but I can't find them in the OS. I entered

sudo fdisk -l

and got the 'Disk /dev/sdb doesn't contain a valid partition table' message for all the additional drives I have. I'm assuming I can just use Gparted or something to do that and I should have the space available, right? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I believe that just means you need to create a partition table on each drive. Make it a linux one and format with your choice of FS. If the drives were not working or whatever, you would not even be able to do the 'fdisk' command (it would complain the disks don't exist.)
 
Well everything is partitioned now and I can see all the new drives in all their capacities. Now I'm having trouble moving data to the new drives. I can't move data from the operating environment (my desktop with xubuntu on it) or from external hard drives. Any ideas?
 
Without knowing what 'having trouble' and 'cant move data' mean, it's hard to say...
 
I select data in an external hard drive, right click on it and select copy/cut or press ctrl-c/x, select the newly partitioned internal hard drive on my xubuntu desktop, right click and select paste or press ctrl-v, and nothing happens. I've found a program called rsync I'm looking into; I'll post when I've got it sorted out. In the mean time, any help is appreciated.
 
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fat32

I know there's limits to the sizes it can transfer, but I can't even move small files (1-2MB). Any ideas?
 
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Alright nevermind. It's working now.

Next up is how to access the new xubuntu system from my windows laptop. I'm currently on basically a university network with my laptop and server wired to a switch which is connected to an ethernet plug in the wall. The new server isn't showing up on the network and I'm not sure how to set it up in xubuntu. Any ideas? Thanks again.
 
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