File/Media Server Build - FlexRAID 24TB Build

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VenomousDesigns

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
173
So after numerous posts across HF, FlexRAID forums and alike I can successfully say I have decided that FlexRAID fits what I need perfectly, and now have began the next steps of putting the actually server together.

Please keep in mind all prices are in AUD - HDDs are already in my procession - Samsung F3 1TB 7200RPMs

Option 1:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T(2.8GHz) - AM3, 9MB Cache,125W - AUD $220
MB: Asus M4A89GTD-Pro USB3 AM3 890GX 4DDR3 2PCIE RAID VGA GLAN 2FW ATX HDMI - AUD $195
RAM: G Skill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1600Mhz PC12800 9-9-9-24(CL9D-4GBNQ - AUD $119
GPU: Sapphire ATI HD5770 Vapor-X OC Ed 1G GDDR5 PCI-E - AUD $189
PSU: Corsair HX-850 ATX Power Supply w 140mm Modular Cables - AUD $222
Controller: SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI-Ex4 8 Port SATA Controller Card AUD $200
Misc: HP SAS Expander - AUD $549
Case: Norco 4224 - AUD $459

Total: AUD $2153

Option 2:

CPU: Intel Core i7 950 Processor LGA1366 3.06GHz 8MB Cache CPU - AUD $365
MB: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R X58+ICH10R QPI 6.4GT/s DDR3 2000 PCI-Ex16 SATAII SATA3 USB3.0 RAID GLAN ATX - AUD $259
RAM: Corsair TR3X6G1333C9 6GB (3x XMS3 2GB) PC-10600 (1333MHz) XMP DDR3 Triple Kit - AUD $179
GPU: Sapphire ATI HD5770 Vapor-X OC Ed 1G GDDR5 PCI-E - AUD $189
PSU: Corsair HX-850 ATX Power Supply w 140mm Modular Cables - AUD $222
Controller: SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI-Ex4 8 Port SATA Controller Card AUD $200
Misc: HP SAS Expander - AUD $549
Case: Norco 4224 - AUD $459

Total: AUD $2422

Edit1: Added in missing Controller Card + Also have the option of moving down to an ATI 5550 and shaving off AUD $100 from either setup.


RAID Setup:

As you may have noticed the HDDs are not included in the above costs as I already have them, this is one of the main reasons for my move to create a server as I just do NOT have the room in my Main PC for 20+ HDDs.

I will be running FlexRAID in a T2+ (RAID6) Array with 21xDRUs and 3xPPUs - I will also have a spare 350GB Samsung running as the main OS drive.

All RAID HDDs are Samsung F3 1TB 7200RPM. My OS of choose for the above will be Windows Server 2008 R2 64Bit


The Battle:

To be used as a Media Center/Fileserver for my Lounge room - it will connect directly to my Sony Bravia 52" to provide myself and my wife with watching our Blu-ray, DVD and TV backups but also serve as a 2nd storage center for my Multimedia work (Film and TV/Advertisement work).

  • Watching Movies/TV;
  • Lite browsing/surfing (Forums/Youtube and whatnot);
  • And the obvious use of a Fileserver.

This PC will NOT be used for Gaming, Programming or any other sort of work. That is what my Main PC is. I would like to reduce costs as much as possible, but also not to the point where it is unusable for the above tasks.


Questions:

1. As I have never set ANYTHING like this up before I am assuming I need the above HP SAS Expander to actually get all these bloodly drives operation - the damn thing is expensive, but its a one off I guess. I just want to make sure this is the CORRECT thing I am purchasing, and the right way of going about things.
2. Is the ATI 5770 overkill for the tasks I require from it? I mean native HDMI is nice, and being able to play Blu-rays is a MUST.
3. I'm sure its going to be brought up anyways during the decisions of Option 1 vs. Option 2 but - AMD 6 Cores vs. Intels' 4 - make ANY difference when it comes to RAIDs, synching and the rebuilding off them? The Intel way looks a hell of alot more expensive for something I won't be using the full potential off as a Desktop CPU. Basically its a straight comparison between an AMD versus Intel (the age ol' battle) - but whenever I find an article/review on the X6 1055t versus a i7 930/950 it always comes down to NON-server related tasks (however archiving benchmarks are nice).

Any pointers would be lovely, suggestions, or new builds that are brought up will be considered and advantages/disadvantages of the above all take to heart. Please do contribute.

Regards,
VD
 
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1. You're missing a HBA or compatible storage controller card in order to use that SAS Expander. The HP SAS Expander doesn't do anything on its own. This HBA/SAS card seems to be recommended quite a bit with FreeBSD and the HP SAS Expander:
$100 - SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI-Ex4 8 Port SATA Controller Card

2. Since there's no gaming whatsoever, no reason for the HD 5770 The HD 5450 would have been enough for the needs you described. Maybe the HD 5550 at most

3. Not sure about this.
 
Why on earth are you using desktop components? Also, if you want one of the HP SAS expanders for less than what you've quoted, I'll ship you one across the pond.
 
Danny Bui said:
1. You're missing a HBA or compatible storage controller card in order to use that SAS Expander. The HP SAS Expander doesn't do anything on its own. This HBA/SAS card seems to be recommended quite a bit with FreeBSD and the HP SAS Expander:
$100 - SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI-Ex4 8 Port SATA Controller Card

2. Since there's no gaming whatsoever, no reason for the HD 5770 The HD 5450 would have been enough for the needs you described. Maybe the HD 5550 at most

3. Not sure about this.
Click to expand...

Cheers for the reply mate;

1. Found one of these SuperMicro cards for AUD $200 - http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/37920-aoc-saslp-mv8 - this is the same fella correct? With that in-toe, how many HDDs can I look to be running with the Controller + HP SAS Expander (24) - aka how many does the HP SAS Expander use from the Controller?
2. It seems I can save approximately AUD $100 if I drop to the 5550.


Blue Fox said:
Why on earth are you using desktop components? Also, if you want one of the HP SAS expanders for less than what you've quoted, I'll ship you one across the pond.
Click to expand...

Thats might nice of you - that was my second option - how much of a reduction would we be looking at here? As per your question - unfortunately in Australia we don't have a large range of options to select from our PC Stores. Are you referring to why am I not looking at Xeon and AMD equivalent?

As pointed out to me on here, and other forums - and what I thought was common - I could be completely wrong though. The only difference between the Xeon and i7's are ECC and a few other things that I do not really apply to me in a 'Home' environment as opposed to a 24/7 running Business Server with VITAL information.

Made the above changes to the original post.
 
VenomousDesigns said:
Thats might nice of you - that was my second option - how much of a reduction would we be looking at here? As per your question - unfortunately in Australia we don't have a large range of options to select from our PC Stores. Are you referring to why am I not looking at Xeon and AMD equivalent?

As pointed out to me on here, and other forums - and what I thought was common - I could be completely wrong though. The only difference between the Xeon and i7's are ECC and a few other things that I do not really apply to me in a 'Home' environment as opposed to a 24/7 running Business Server with VITAL information.
Click to expand...
Meant more the motherboard choices and the fact that you were using a video card. You can skip the Xeon/Opteron chips. Just get a decent board. You're getting shafted on that Supermicro card too. Want me to pick one up for you too? I do this on the side actually (that is shipping stuff overseas for people) and have references if you want. As for price, if you are genuinely interesting in having me buy you a bunch of things, we can figure that all out if you want.

I just bought two of these and have been quite pleased with them. All the standard bells and whistles along with nice things like IPMI, dual NICs, and the likes. Integrated video of course. Just gives you a good example of why server boards can actually be more cost effective. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211
 
The MV8 controller does not work well at all under FreeBSD; can you do the same with controlled based on LSI 1068E chip? Then at least you would have the ability to try something else in the future, like ZFS.

Unless you're sure you won't ever try it in the future.
 
Blue Fox said:
Meant more the motherboard choices and the fact that you were using a video card. You can skip the Xeon/Opteron chips. Just get a decent board. You're getting shafted on that Supermicro card too. Want me to pick one up for you too? I do this on the side actually (that is shipping stuff overseas for people) and have references if you want. As for price, if you are genuinely interesting in having me buy you a bunch of things, we can figure that all out if you want.

I just bought two of these and have been quite pleased with them. All the standard bells and whistles along with nice things like IPMI, dual NICs, and the likes. Integrated video of course. Just gives you a good example of why server boards can actually be more cost effective. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211
Click to expand...

Well aren't you an amazing person to know :). I'll PM you straight after to talk about things further in relation to shipping/prices etc.

Moving on-topic though - what are you actually suggesting here in terms of Builds. I was not aware that the MB I linked is not decent - has everything I can see myself using in the present and future markets?

If you could suggest some specific things, I can look into Australian stock - and alternative Builds to suit.


sub.mesa said:
The MV8 controller does not work well at all under FreeBSD; can you do the same with controlled based on LSI 1068E chip? Then at least you would have the ability to try something else in the future, like ZFS.

Unless you're sure you won't ever try it in the future.
Click to expand...

I'm always keen to try new things, and would hate to limit myself to a particular OS in case things change in the future. However at the current time W2K8 R2 64bit is what I am looking to run. You mentioned a particular card above, any reasons as to why you choose that, or can point me in the direction of a particular model so I can get some prices/research done?


Further Questions:

1. Still a little confused on how the HBA/SAS Expander works - obviously my 24xHDDs will be connected to the HP SAS Expander - but does that leave NO room for expansion, or will some SAS ports be still available on the SuperMicro/equivalent Controller Card?

The most bloody annoying thing is that expensive of the dam HP SAS Expander and Case - it totals more than the damn system haha. And in fact is better, or close enough, to beating the specs in my Main PC I use for gaming - ain't it grand how fast things are superseded in the I.T. World.
 
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Focusing on Windows server now doesn' t mean you have to exclude the ability to run something else in the future, like ZFS. By chosing another HBA that works with all OS, you don't restrict your ability to try something else in the future. The SuperMicro USAS-L8i and Intel SASUC8i controllers both are built around the LSI 1068E chip, which should work great with any OS.

I have no experience with expanders; but i do believe this will work. By the way i thought expanders were cheap like $100? That's the whole reason for using them; alot of ports for little money. Else you're better off with a real controller without any expanders, then you would have more bandwidth as well.

About motherboards, i think this board has quite some advantages:

X8ST3-F_spec.jpg


http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/X58/X8ST3-F.cfm
 
sub.mesa said:
Focusing on Windows server now doesn' t mean you have to exclude the ability to run something else in the future, like ZFS. By chosing another HBA that works with all OS, you don't restrict your ability to try something else in the future. The SuperMicro USAS-L8i and Intel SASUC8i controllers both are built around the LSI 1068E chip, which should work great with any OS.

I have no experience with expanders; but i do believe this will work. By the way i thought expanders were cheap like $100? That's the whole reason for using them; alot of ports for little money. Else you're better off with a real controller without any expanders, then you would have more bandwidth as well.

About motherboards, i think this board has quite some advantages:

X8ST3-F_spec.jpg


http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/X58/X8ST3-F.cfm
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll look at pricing those Controller Cards, and I completely agree with you on the fact of not limiting yourself to a particular OS.

Looking at pricing it seems that SuperMicro X8ST3-F is $330'ish USD - so actually more expensive then the ones I am looking at. Ill have to look at what additional features this is adding for the $$$ though.

Keep in mind, this is simply being used as a Fileserver/HTPC - my Main PC will be used for all other things.

@SAS Expander: I thought the same thing too, but from what I can see the HP SAS Expander seems to be the most sort out and used in this community (and others). Chenbro used to be popular but doesn't support the speeds of the HP. Please do suggest if you or anyone can find anything else - as I said, I'm still new to this whole Controller + SAS Expander deal.
 
That motherboard does have everything you need for a server i think:

8x SAS ports with LSI 1068E
6x onboard SATA/300 ports
= 14x total onboard SATA/SAS ports

4x PCI-express (last one is PCIe x4 electrically; rest is x8)
2x Intel gigabit ethernet
6x DIMMs for lots of RAM
Low Power

So the special thing of this motherboard is that is basically has a 8-port controller already integrated onboard. Leaves you more room for expansion in the future. It's an expensive motherboard for sure, but given all the extra's like dual gigabit ethernet and onboard SATA ports, the price is actually quite reasonable i think. I mean consider $330 and substract one normal 8-port controller from it, say $130. Then you' re at $200 for a solid server motherboard with dual gigabit ethernet, plenty pcie and 6 DIMM slots for lots of memory.

If you do want to build a sexy NAS, this would be the top of the line for a home-built NAS. Not sure how many disks you want to connect, but with just one additional controller you get 14+8 = 22 SATA ports; that should fill up those Norco's. :)
 
VenomousDesigns said:
Further Questions:

1. Still a little confused on how the HBA/SAS Expander works - obviously my 24xHDDs will be connected to the HP SAS Expander - but does that leave NO room for expansion, or will some SAS ports be still available on the SuperMicro/equivalent Controller Card?

The most bloody annoying thing is that expensive of the dam HP SAS Expander and Case - it totals more than the damn system haha. And in fact is better, or close enough, to beating the specs in my Main PC I use for gaming - ain't it grand how fast things are superseded in the I.T. World.
Click to expand...
You can actually chain them together (and the card has at least 28 usable ports depending on how you connect it). If you ever want to pick up another chassis and add more drives, you can just buy the expander (no motherboard needed as long as it gets power somehow) and just connect it to the other one. You can daisy-chain them to your heart's content (so long as the controller card supports the number of drives you have connected). I have multiple Norco chassis set up that way running off a single system.
 
Blue Fox said:
If you ever want to pick up another chassis and add more drives, you can just buy the expander (no motherboard needed as long as it gets power somehow) and just connect it to the other one.
Click to expand...

I've actually just started looking into this option myself, and the question of power has me scratching my head a little bit!

What's the best way of actually getting power into the second chassis?
 
young_einstein said:
I've actually just started looking into this option myself, and the question of power has me scratching my head a little bit!

What's the best way of actually getting power into the second chassis?
Click to expand...

From what I can gather: A second PSU with the paper clip trick is the easiest way to get power to the second case.
 
Danny Bui said:
From what I can gather: A second PSU with the paper clip trick is the easiest way to get power to the second case.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I figured ... I was just wondering if anyone happened to know a slightly more 'elegant' solution? ;)
 
So in my mission to bring costs down/future-proof the machine as best I with $$$ in mind, starting looking at the newer 6GB/s HBA cards:

SuperMicro AOC-USAS2-L8e - http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/addon/AOC-USAS2-L8i.cfm?TYP=E - AUD $220
LSI SAS 9211-8i - http://www.lsi.com/storage_home/pro...pters/sas_hbas/internal/sas9211-8i/index.html - AUD $265

Can't find anything on the Adaptec front as of yet - but could just be slow at updating their site.

As you can see from the above, prices don't vary THAT much when looking at the previously suggested: SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI-Ex4 8 Port SATA Controller Card AUD $200. My understanding is that since my Samsung F3 1TBs are only SATAII/3GB/s the HBA card will just drop down to that spend - but this will allow me the future proofing for SATAIII HDDs and the exact same features as the MV8?

Please keep those suggestions rolling in. Hoefully with BlueFox's help I can bring down the AMD Build to under AUD $2000!
 
Why not use something like this http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1919.html ?
Just take the 2-wire 24-pin via brackets between the cases, maybe an extension in between so that the cases can be separated without opening them...
or even better, make a custom bracket with the 2-pin connector, shouldn't be too much work using the proper tools...
 
Well after spending another day doing some 'fine' tuning, and actually sitting down to think how everything is going to fit together I soon realized that I will be in a bit of a pickle when it comes to PCI-E slots.

In Asus M4A89GTD-Pro USB3, it only comes with:

2xPCIe 2.0 x16 support ATI CrossFireX™ technology(@dual x8 speed)
1xPCIe 2.0 x4
1xPCIe 2.0 x1
2xPCI

The Gigabyte equivalent - GA-890GPA-UD3H - is even worse with:

1xPCI Express x16 slot, running at x16 (PCIEX16)
1xPCI Express x16 slot, running at x8 (PCIEX8)
3xPCI Express x1 slot (All PCI Express slots conform to PCI Express 2.0 standard.)
2xPCI slots

So that made me think what did I ACTUALLY need;

1xPCI-E for GFX Card
1xPCI-E x4 for HP SAS Expander
1xPCI-E x4 for Controller Card (MV8 or better)

Now of the above listed MBs have 2xPCI-E x4 - I've heard rumours that a PCI-E x4 can be plugged into a PCI-E slot of greater 'x' but from what I've read it comes down to particular H/W Manufactures, then the card itself.

Going on the suggest of sub.mesa, I began looking for AMD AM3 'Server' MBs or something that would provide me with better PCI-E solution if I need to add another HP SAS Expander in the future or whatever. But have been UNABLE to find anything suitable - would love any suggestions/pointers or its looking like I might have to go along the lines of an i7 again...

Further research also pointed out that if I go with the originally suggested MB (Asus M4A89GTD-Pro USB3) I will be able to get away with the intergrated ATI 4290 as a replacement to the ATI 5550 I was looking at originally - still doesn't solve the issue of PCI-E slots though.

@sub.mesa: The integrated SAS Controller in the X8ST3-F is only a 3GB/s one, had a quick poke around and wasn't able to see any 6GB/s ones as of yet - I'm assuming they're coming? Also it looks like I'll probably need to get an external GFX card as the IGP is only a Matrox G200eW 8 MB DDR2.
 
VenomousDesigns said:
Now of the above listed MBs have 2xPCI-E x4 - I've heard rumours that a PCI-E x4 can be plugged into a PCI-E slot of greater 'x' but from what I've read it comes down to particular H/W Manufactures, then the card itself.
Click to expand...

Not rumors: Most PCI-E based card has to be able to run at all of the PCI-E speeds: from x1 to x2 to x4 to x8 to x16. So as long it can physically fit, you can run a x4 card in a x1 slot and be fine. The only problem is making that PCI-E x4 card fit: Many PCI-E x1 slots are not opened-ended in the front and therefore cannot physically fit larger cards.

VenomousDesigns said:
Further research also pointed out that if I go with the originally suggested MB (Asus M4A89GTD-Pro USB3) I will be able to get away with the intergrated ATI 4290 as a replacement to the ATI 5550 I was looking at originally - still doesn't solve the issue of PCI-E slots though.
Click to expand...

Do note that ALL 890GX motherboards have the ATI 4290. So that Gigabyte would also suffice. Unfortunately though, the ATI HD 4290 does not support anything higher than 2.1 audio via HDMI, unlike the HD 5550 which supports 7.1 LPCM audio as well as bitstreamed audio.
 
Danny Bui said:
Not rumors: Most PCI-E based card has to be able to run at all of the PCI-E speeds: from x1 to x2 to x4 to x8 to x16. So as long it can physically fit, you can run a x4 card in a x1 slot and be fine. The only problem is making that PCI-E x4 card fit: Many PCI-E x1 slots are not opened-ended in the front and therefore cannot physically fit larger cards.

Do note that ALL 890GX motherboards have the ATI 4290. So that Gigabyte would also suffice. Unfortunately though, the ATI HD 4290 does not support anything higher than 2.1 audio via HDMI, unlike the HD 5550 which supports 7.1 LPCM audio as well as bitstreamed audio.
Click to expand...

Indeed interesting on all fronts - you are correct about all 890GX MBs having the ATI 4290 - I was simply referring to the one I linked earlier. Did not know however about the lack of 7.1 Audio support - but at the moment, only have the speakers on the TV outputting sound.

I'm really hoping someone might be able to come up with an AM3 MB that integrates a 6GB/s SAS Controller in + the HD 4290 IGP + Enough PCI-E slots without me needing to take a Dremel to it.. - this is in a PERFECT world haha
 
VenomousDesigns said:
I'm really hoping someone might be able to come up with an AM3 MB that integrates a 6GB/s SAS Controller in + the HD 4290 IGP - this is in a PERFECT world haha.
Click to expand...

I don't think that exists, man. AMD doesn't bundle consumer IGPs with their server mobos IIRC.
 
Danny Bui said:
I don't think that exists, man. AMD doesn't bundle consumer IGPs with their server mobos IIRC.
Click to expand...

Haha I know - nor does Intel. I'm happy to splash out on a ATI 5550 if I can save somewhere along the lines of an Integrated SAS Controller and enough PCI-E slots to fit what I listed back in #20.

If you're saying that the PCI-E x16 is backwards compatible that means ALL usable PCI-E slots will be filled with the following under the Asus M4A89GTD-Pro USB3:

1xPCI-E for GFX Card
1xPCI-E x4 for HP SAS Expander
1xPCI-E x4 for Controller Card

Thats not taking into consideration hot TIGHT it'll be and no room for expansion.
 
Correct. But again, there's the physical limitation of the PCI-E slots themselves that you have to think about. Short of voiding your warranty by cutting open the PCI-E x1 slots as shown here, that Asus and Gigabyte mobo won't do.

See if these 8 mobos are available in your country:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

Those 8 mobos have 3 x PCI-E x16 slots that'll run at x8 and x4 speeds.
 
Danny Bui said:
Correct. But again, there's the physical limitation of the PCI-E slots themselves that you have to think about. Short of voiding your warranty by cutting open the PCI-E x1 slots as shown here, that Asus and Gigabyte mobo won't do.

See if these 8 mobos are available in your country:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

Those 8 mobos have 3 x PCI-E x16 slots that'll run at x8 and x4 speeds.
Click to expand...

From that list the ASRock 890GX Extreme4 is looking the best of the bunch. Just concerned how tight its going to be with the Controller Card + HP SAS Expander in the Norco 4224 - anyone have any experience with it? Is how the PCI-E slots spaced out enough, correct location etc

890GX%20Extreme4(m).jpg


Also unfortunately ASRock isn't a big brand here - on that note how are they in terms of Drivers/Reliability?

@Danny Bui: Back @ the point you made about no 7.1 LPCM support with the ATI 4290 - as I am only watching the movies on a Sony Bravia 52" with default speakers - this won't make any difference until I upgrade to a more suitable sound system correct?


Another big question here is looking at the following updated AMD Build option:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T(2.8GHz) - AM3, 9MB Cache,125W - AUD $220
MB: ASRock 890GX EXTREME4 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard - USD $139.99
RAM: G Skill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1600Mhz PC12800 9-9-9-24(CL9D-4GBNQ - AUD $119
PSU: Corsair HX-850 ATX Power Supply w 140mm Modular Cables - AUD $222
Controller: SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI-Ex4 8 Port SATA Controller Card AUD $200
Misc: HP SAS Expander - AUD $549
Case: Norco 4224 - AUD $459

Total: AUD $1900

This thing isn't 'power' friendly AT all is it.. For something that is going to be a HTPC/Fileserver I'm not sure where to look to make optimizations to both Price/Power Consumption. Pointers?
 
VenomousDesigns said:
Is how the PCI-E slots spaced out enough, correct location etc
Click to expand...
Looks spaced out enough for me.
VenomousDesigns said:
Also unfortunately ASRock isn't a big brand here - on that note how are they in terms of Drivers/Reliability?
Click to expand...
They're all right AFAIK.
VenomousDesigns said:
@Danny Bui: Back @ the point you made about no 7.1 LPCM support with the ATI 4290 - as I am only watching the movies on a Sony Bravia 52" with default speakers - this won't make any difference until I upgrade to a more suitable sound system correct?
Click to expand...
Correct

VenomousDesigns said:
This thing isn't 'power' friendly AT all is it.. For something that is going to be a HTPC/Fileserver I'm not sure where to look to make optimizations to both Price/Power Consumption. Pointers?
Click to expand...
Oddly enough, suggesting that you should drop down to a Phenom II X4 CPU would be a bad idea considering that the X6 1055T only uses 4 more watts than a Phenom II X4 CPU. So in reality, the X6 1055T is rather power efficient if you think about it: 6 cores and only 4 more watts over a quad-core? Not bad at all.

However find out whether or not FlexRAID really needs a quad-core CPU or not.

Also, out of curiosity, see if these exact parts are available in your country and for how much:
$190 - Supermicro MBD-X8SIL-F-O Intel 3420 mATX Motherboard
$113 - Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G 2 x 2GB ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 RAM
 
Danny Bui said:
However find out whether or not FlexRAID really needs a quad-core CPU or not.

Also, out of curiosity, see if these exact parts are available in your country and for how much:
$190 - Supermicro MBD-X8SIL-F-O Intel 3420 mATX Motherboard
$113 - Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G 2 x 2GB ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 RAM
Click to expand...

Well good news about the 7.1 - By the time I can afford (recover from this lol) and get a proper sound system, I'll no doubt splash on a HTPC GFX card aswell.

Spoken to Brahim a number of times, and this was his response on the matter:

You are going to be I/O bound.
So, any quad-core or even a fast dual-core will be more than plenty for that many drives.

That said, I will later release triple and quad parity RAID engines that will require more CPU.
For the money, the X6 is certainly a "why not" as you can end up using that box for other things.
Click to expand...

If you're saying its only 4Watts more, no drama here - the 1055t is a HELL of alot cheaper than the Intel counterparts.

In regards to the RAM and MB - the RAM is available here (around AUD $135-150), however the MB is not. I saw on the RAM it mentions ECC (something AMD MBs come with standard as opposed to their Intel counterparts) - however it's listed as also un-buffered so I assume not proper ECC RAM?

The MB/RAM was suggested because? Low Wattage? An alternative to go with Intel?

Keep those suggestions rolling in :D
 
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VenomousDesigns said:
In regards to the RAM and MB - the RAM is available here (around AUD $135-150), however the MB is not. I saw on the RAM it mentions ECC (something AMD MBs come with standard as opposed to their Intel counterparts) - however it's listed as also un-buffered so I assume not proper ECC RAM?

The MB/RAM was suggested because? Low Wattage? An alternative to go with Intel?

Keep those suggestions rolling in :D
Click to expand...

It's still ECC RAM, just a tad faster than registered ECC RAM.

Basically it was an alternative to go with Intel. That Supermicro, at least here in the U.S, is pretty much one of the best bang for the buck server motherboard out there. The fact that you could use a Core i3 CPU in that mobo made it a top choice for low power setups. Since that mobo is not available in your country, a bit of a moot point.
 
Danny Bui said:
It's still ECC RAM, just a tad faster than registered ECC RAM.

Basically it was an alternative to go with Intel. That Supermicro, at least here in the U.S, is pretty much one of the best bang for the buck server motherboard out there. The fact that you could use a Core i3 CPU in that mobo made it a top choice for low power setups. Since that mobo is not available in your country, a bit of a moot point.
Click to expand...

Was just looking at prices then between the i3/i5 - unless I was going for a Dual Core i3 (priced between AUD $130-165) there would be no point passing up the X6 1055t in my eyes for AUD $220 - the i5's are priced between AUD $215-238.

In regards to that RAM, tried to do a search between the difference between ECC Registered and Un-Buffered - all I came up was with the usual Google trolls. Apart from it being faster - what am I actually missing out on it not being Registered?

As the RAM is AUD $10-30 more than the RAM I listed, is it worth going ECC for the odd chance I could get a corruption? Will I be losing any NOTICEABLE performance/overclocking capabilities moving from the G Skill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1600Mhz PC12800 9-9-9-24(CL9D-4GBNQ (Last time I touched RAM was around 4yrs ago, the loser the binning it would allow to be overclocked more? Been SO long haha).

In regards to the original Corsair HX-850 ATX I listed - is that OVERKILL? Any movement I can make to save power/$?
 
VenomousDesigns said:
Was just looking at prices then between the i3/i5 - unless I was going for a Dual Core i3 (priced between AUD $130-165) there would be no point passing up the X6 1055t in my eyes for AUD $220 - the i5's are priced between AUD $215-238.
Click to expand...
Well the Core i5 CPU doesn't even work in that mobo so that's out.

VenomousDesigns said:
In regards to that RAM, tried to do a search between the difference between ECC Registered and Un-Buffered - all I came up was with the usual Google trolls. Apart from it being faster - what am I actually missing out on it not being Registered?
Click to expand...
Well lesser chance of corrupted data from what I can see.

VenomousDesigns said:
As the RAM is AUD $10-30 more than the RAM I listed, is it worth going ECC for the odd chance I could get a corruption? Will I be losing any NOTICEABLE performance/overclocking capabilities moving from the G Skill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1600Mhz PC12800 9-9-9-24(CL9D-4GBNQ (Last time I touched RAM was around 4yrs ago, the loser the binning it would allow to be overclocked more? Been SO long haha).
Click to expand...

Dunno TBH. Though I've never seen anybody overclock with ECC RAM.
VenomousDesigns said:
In regards to the original Corsair HX-850 ATX I listed - is that OVERKILL? Any movement I can make to save power/$?
Click to expand...

For your planned setup, a quality 750W PSU with 60A to 62A on the +12V rail would be enough. Also, do you actually need modular cables? That's the biggest reason why the PSU costs are so high.
 
Just one note: if you opt for the SuperMicro USAS2-L8i which is 6Gbps then you can't use it for ZFS on FreeBSD at the moment. So either you'll leave a future upgrade to Opensolaris+ZFS open, or later in the future you hope that FreeBSD supports this new card.

The SuperMicro USAS-L8i does work with FreeBSD; which is 3Gbps. The newer 6Gbps version thus works only in OpenSolaris for now. I'm sure it'll get supported one day in FreeBSD. Still something you should know. If you plan on running a windows solution for the next half a year at least, this shouldn't be an issue.
 
Asus M4A79T Deluxe is a board I'm using, it's getting a bit old(790fx), but it's working ok.
 
@VenomousDesigns:

You can consider the HP SAS Expander card as an Ethernet switch, that's basically what it does. The way you would connect this internally is a single SFF8087 cable (containing 4 lanes) between your HBA and the Expander. From the Expander you run a SFF8087 cable to each of the Norcos 4224 backplanes. That's 6 SFF8087 cables between the 6 backplanes and the HP SAS Expander. Again, each of these SFF8087 cables contains the equivalent of 4 SATA connections (6 cables x 4 drives per cable = 24 drives total).

I've run 48 2TB drives of one AOC-SASLP-MV8 controller via two HP SAS Expander cards without any issues.

I doubt that it will make any difference for you at the moment if you go with 6Gbps or 3Gbps interface between the controller and the HP SAS Expander. Overall you are still limited by the interface speed of each drive when accessing them (especially considering you are going to use FlexRAID). The only time that 6Gbps might (and I do mean might) be of any benefit would be when you recreate the parity data in FlexRAID, but that depends on IF W2k8 R2 actually distributes the read requests and the HBAs driver also supports bundling the requests to be distributed to all of the different drives.

I find it interesting that you are considering different HBAs and MBs so that you can try different OS system setups but you are skimping on the video cards audio capabilities. I understand where you are coming from since you currently do not have the capabilities to utilize anything other than 2.0, but I think you should definitely reconsider this! Especially if you are into Blu-rays, you SHOULD get yourself a surround system... You are missing something! But that's a different topic...

I also need to caution you on the HP SAS Expander as some motherboards do NOT release a signal (PWRGD) used by the expander card to work. There are numerous cases now (my setup included) that simply did not work from the get-go without any modification or workaround! You should stick with motherboards that have been tested or are in use and work from other users on this forum! Just want to spare you the grief that some of us went through!

I would suggest a supermicro server MB (they actually have some with 6Gbps SAS ports).

Hope this helps...
 
treadstone said:
@VenomousDesigns:

You can consider the HP SAS Expander card as an Ethernet switch, that's basically what it does. The way you would connect this internally is a single SFF8087 cable (containing 4 lanes) between your HBA and the Expander. From the Expander you run a SFF8087 cable to each of the Norcos 4224 backplanes. That's 6 SFF8087 cables between the 6 backplanes and the HP SAS Expander. Again, each of these SFF8087 cables contains the equivalent of 4 SATA connections (6 cables x 4 drives per cable = 24 drives total).

I've run 48 2TB drives of one AOC-SASLP-MV8 controller via two HP SAS Expander cards without any issues.

I doubt that it will make any difference for you at the moment if you go with 6Gbps or 3Gbps interface between the controller and the HP SAS Expander. Overall you are still limited by the interface speed of each drive when accessing them (especially considering you are going to use FlexRAID). The only time that 6Gbps might (and I do mean might) be of any benefit would be when you recreate the parity data in FlexRAID, but that depends on IF W2k8 R2 actually distributes the read requests and the HBAs driver also supports bundling the requests to be distributed to all of the different drives.

I find it interesting that you are considering different HBAs and MBs so that you can try different OS system setups but you are skimping on the video cards audio capabilities. I understand where you are coming from since you currently do not have the capabilities to utilize anything other than 2.0, but I think you should definitely reconsider this! Especially if you are into Blu-rays, you SHOULD get yourself a surround system... You are missing something! But that's a different topic...

I also need to caution you on the HP SAS Expander as some motherboards do NOT release a signal (PWRGD) used by the expander card to work. There are numerous cases now (my setup included) that simply did not work from the get-go without any modification or workaround! You should stick with motherboards that have been tested or are in use and work from other users on this forum! Just want to spare you the grief that some of us went through!

I would suggest a supermicro server MB (they actually have some with 6Gbps SAS ports).

Hope this helps...
Click to expand...

Wow so helpful (was secretly hoping that you would reply or come across this thread because I am both in awe and jealous of you're build project haha).

1. I guess this time is as great as any other to discuss the 'additional' accessories one will need to make this work - after spending all this money, I don't particular want another 3 weeks or waiting on cables etc to regret what I've done :D.

You mentioned a SFF8087 - by you're recount I will need a total of 7 - 1xFor SAS Controller > HP SAS Expander and then 6xFor SAS Expander to the Norco Backplates. Other then that I will obviously need SATA cables from the Backplates > HDDs? PSU cables are supplied so anything else I would be missing?

2. I totally agree with you in regards to the IGP ATI 4290 and needing something more when I move to getting Surround Sound - but the keyword there is when - I figured by that point I can purchase w/e GFX Card is standard for HTPC so atm I am not wasting money on something that I can't take advantage of - have I go that correct?

3. Little concerned about my choose of MB now. Its unfortunate that SuperMirco does not have any AMD AM3 MBs (unless I'm blind?) so if I did indeed make to jump to them, I would need to purchase an i7 equivalent at a higher price (AUD $100+). Also while we're on the topic of SuperMirco I can only find the X8SI6-F that has a 6GB/s on-board SAS Controller - however this doesn't seem to support i7's NOR have USB3.

I saw that someone mentions using a ASRock in the HP SAS Expander thread here but again that isn't the ASRock Extreme4 I was looking at, nor can I see any mention of an ASUS M4A89GTD-Pro USB3 in that thread or any other.

What would you do in my current dilemma - wanting to choose the cheaper AMD AM3 X6 1055t, wanting to find a MB that has enough/suitable PCI-E slots to support and/or one that has a 6GB/s SAS Controller:

1xPCI-E for GFX Card (Future inclusion)
1xPCI-E x4 for HP SAS Expander
1xPCI-E x4 for Controller Card

4. Following on from what Danni Bui mentioned - I could drop to a decent 750 PSU and/or one without Modular support. Came across the
Corsair TX-850 ATX Power Supply or Corsair TX-850 ATX Power Supply - both are AUD $148 and AUD $178 as opposed to the original AUD $222, Modular is not needed you all agree? Just going to be hella messy?

750 will suffice about how much headroom does this give for expansion into a GFX Card and more HDDs later?

Is there space to tuck things Treadstone?

Thanks :)
 
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treadstone said:
I've run 48 2TB drives of one AOC-SASLP-MV8 controller via two HP SAS Expander cards without any issues.
Click to expand...
Thank you for confirmation! I've been wondering about that for the past few weeks.


VenomousDesigns said:
You mentioned a SFF8087 - by you're recount I will need a total of 7 - 1xFor SAS Controller > HP SAS Expander and then 6xFor SAS Expander to the Norco Backplates. Other then that I will obviously need SATA cables from the Backplates > HDDs? PSU cables are supplied so anything else I would be missing?
Click to expand...
You don't need SATA cables from the backplates to the HDDs. The SATA ports are soldered direction on that backplane.


VenomousDesigns said:
2. I totally agree with you in regards to the IGP ATI 4290 and needing something more when I move to getting Surround Sound - but the keyword there is when - I figured by that point I can purchase w/e GFX Card is standard for HTPC so atm I am not wasting money on something that I can't take advantage of - have I go that correct?
Click to expand...

Yeah Correct.
VenomousDesigns said:
What would you do in my current dilemma - wanting to choose the cheaper AMD AM3 X6 1055t, wanting to find a MB that has enough/suitable PCI-E slots to support and/or one that has a 6GB/s SAS Controller:

1xPCI-E for GFX Card (Future inclusion)
1xPCI-E x4 for HP SAS Expander
1xPCI-E x4 for Controller Card
Click to expand...
If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't even think about combining the HTPC and server together. That's just a bloody recipe for disaster as well it needlessly complicates things. Case in point: this entire thread. I highly recommend splitting this build into two: One actually properHTPC and one server. Take it from others that have done the exact same thing you want to do: Just don't do it.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1419906

And from my own experience, it's simply not worth the savings in costs and power usage to have an server and HTPC together.

VenomousDesigns said:
4. Following on from what Danni Bui mentioned - I could drop to a decent 750 PSU and/or one without Modular support. Came across the
Corsair TX-850 ATX Power Supply or Corsair TX-850 ATX Power Supply - both are AUD $148 and AUD $178 as opposed to the original AUD $222, Modular is not needed you all agree? Just going to be hella messy?

750 will suffice about how much headroom does this give for expansion into a GFX Card and more HDDs later?
Click to expand...

When I made that 750W with 60A to 62A PSU recommendation, I already factored in all 24 drives + a lower power (under 70W) HTPC card. You'll have enough headroom. Then again, better safe than sorry if you go with the Corsair 850TX. MOdular is not needed since you're more than likely gonna use up most of those power cables any way.
 
VenomousDesigns said:
750 will suffice about how much headroom does this give for expansion into a GFX Card and more HDDs later?
Click to expand...
I ran one of my Norco 4020s with 22 hard drives, an i7 920 overclocked to 3.8ghz, and a HD5850 off a 610w PC P&C power supply. It will be more than enough.
 
Danny Bui said:
If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't even think about combining the HTPC and server together. That's just a bloody recipe for disaster as well it needlessly complicates things. Case in point: this entire thread. I highly recommend splitting this build into two: One actually properHTPC and one server. Take it from others that have done the exact same thing you want to do: Just don't do it.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1419906

And from my own experience, it's simply not worth the savings in costs and power usage to have an server and HTPC together.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely no way I can afford two PCs. My idea with this Build was that I had now outgrown space for HDDs in my Gaming PC (no way I can fit 20+ HDDs in there, and reverted to having to switch HDDs everytime the wife and I wanted to watch something as my Gaming PC was hooked up to the TV at the time).

Now as we're moving to a larger flat, I figured I could move ALL the HDDs into one PC/Server - where I wouldn't have to fiddle around with Hot-Swapping drives and could simply hook it up to our TV in the lounge room - keep in mind this place is rented, I can't start moving huge 24RU Server Cabinets in and out :p.

Also even if I decided to switch to simply a 'dedicated' Server and move EVERY bloody file/movie from the Fileserver to my Gaming PC, then stream to my PS3 - I don't see any cost savings either of my setups that could be made. It would be what I listed and then an entire NEW Build for a HTPC.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :confused:
 
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Well just had to point out what I would do and the experiences of others who've done the same. And HTPC doesn't cost that much: $400 to $500 give or take.

I don't understand why you would have to "move EVERY bloody file/movie from the Fileserver to my Gaming PC"? :confused:

Any way, suit yourself and go with the combination. Just had to give you a fair warning from the experiences of others as well as my own.
 
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