Fermi A3 Silicon...

[Silus]

i guess i just preferr to have all the information i can and then make my own opinion and decision. By all means, if you want you can stick with the "main" stream media, get fed PR/marketing or block out the information you don't like that is your choice.

I like semmiaccurate/fudzilla/theinquirer for the same reason i like the [H]. I can read about some information and use my own good judgement to decide what I think is good information.


I can understand your disdain for him, in todays media everyone always builds their tent around theri "favorite" news source. Whether its CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, BBC or anything. everyone always has their favorite and the one they hate the most because of their own personal views and opinions.

For me, give me all the info and let me make my own informed decision.

You still miss the part that Charlie is fed by AMD's PR.

And the fact that you include [H] and inquirers/fudzillas in the same sentence isn't really good. Even though lately [H] has included "rumors" in their reviews (which I find unfortunate), they mostly just show the hard facts. There's no way around them. That's what they are, inquirers/fudzillas and "charlies" have no facts, just rumors or in Charlie's case rumors twisted with his NVIDIA hate.

And you can make a decision based on whatever you want (that's obviously your call), but claiming that biased "sources" are a good starting point to make that decision, just makes your point quite flawed.

 

[Finkus]

You're talking about a niche (Eyefinity) within a niche (high end graphics cards) within a niche (enthusiasts). I doubt Nvidia will be too worried about sales if they don't have something similiar to Eyefinity. Couple the fact that Eyefinity is far from a generally usable solution due to poor application support (FOV, HUD scaling etc) and I dont see why they should be worried.

I don't think they would be in the slightest bit worried either and never suggested they might be. I couldn't care less how much money either company makes, how popular their products are with each generation, or what happens outside my niche. None of that reflects my needs or affects my purchasing decisions.

What does interest me though, is my next 12-18 months of gaming and what both companies are doing to sell a 500 quid GPU to me and the other people in my niche. Like I said, I will be interested to see what nvidia offers up because right now, faster GPU's are not going to cut it until the next gen of consoles appears.

 

[panhead]

For me, give me all the info and let me make my own informed decision.

+1 QFT

 

[Decibel]

Is the idiot (Charlie) talking about performance based on clocks alone ? If he is, why are you even using his gibberish, when clocks are far from the only determining performance factor, especially in a new architecture such as Fermi ?

The man has never gotten a performance prediction right yet, why do you assume he has this time?

I posted a direct response to the poster just before me. I guess expecting people to read the whole thread is expecting a bit too much.

He asked what the numbers from the article meant, I did a bit of quick math. What's the problem?

Honesty though, as much as I have been annoyed and complained about Charlie, he does seem to have had a bit of good info on the timing for this release cycle. If he keeps this new, mellower tone, I might even be able to read his articles without remembering the joke like fiasco that his "reporting" has been. Seriously, he made way too big of a deal about the "wood screws," I happen to have a couple of screws holding the back plate on my GTX 280, and my supposedly "bumpgate" era laptop has been cooking for years without an issue.

 

[panhead]

in Charlie's case rumors twisted with his NVIDIA hate.

If Nvidia PR didn't spew BS constantly, rebadge old hardware as new, disable their Physix hardware with non-NV video cards, disable SLI in non-NV chipsets. In general, having nothing but contempt for the consumer.

AMD/ATI have problems, but they are a reputable company. They are upfront with their issues and don't treat the consumer with contempt.

 

[phide]

i guess i just preferr to have all the information i can and then make my own opinion and decision. By all means, if you want you can stick with the "main" stream media, get fed PR/marketing or block out the information you don't like that is your choice.

"Information" is too broad a thing to seek out. Define the information you desire more narrowly, such as into groups of legitimate information and information that's assumed to be false, and you'll no longer have any need to read the tabloids, as the information they provide is often illegitimate and false.

I like semmiaccurate/fudzilla/theinquirer for the same reason i like the [H]. I can read about some information and use my own good judgement to decide what I think is good information.

You don't have enough information about the information to be able to make a judgment call about whether the information is good or not. If you have a piece of information that's independently corroborated by other parties, then you can attain a level of understanding about that information that's probably sufficient to deem it "good" or "not good". If you have one person -- one single entity -- spouting out nonsense with heavily-biased reporting, then you have nothing to suggest that the information is any good at all. It could be right or, just as easily, it could be wrong.

 

[NKD]

You still miss the part that Charlie is fed by AMD's PR.

And the fact that you include [H] and inquirers/fudzillas in the same sentence isn't really good. Even though lately [H] has included "rumors" in their reviews (which I find unfortunate), they mostly just show the hard facts. There's no way around them. That's what they are, inquirers/fudzillas and "charlies" have no facts, just rumors or in Charlie's case rumors twisted with his NVIDIA hate.

And you can make a decision based on whatever you want (that's obviously your call), but claiming that biased "sources" are a good starting point to make that decision, just makes your point quite flawed.

I thought we were talking about this particular article, and yet it turns in to I hate charlie thread, lets leave this thread to the article it is about, I am not a big charlie fan and nor do I hate the guy becaus I love nvidia or ati, if you do than it is your fault for being a fan boy, and you go on defending everything like your life depends on it. I just read what he has to say and most of the times I have a few laughs, nothing wrong with that, lol. I just think that in this article though he was pretty hopeful for nvidia, and pretty damn fair article and again I hear people saying oh close your eyes it is charlie, talk about the article on hand which is everything but biased opinion by him, yea most of the time I read his articles just to have a laugh but this article was pretty fair, and If I had to judge him on this article I would not blindly ignore it just because it is charlie. I am sure you will bash me for this comment, but instead I will go enjoy Dirt2 while you do so.

 

[knothead34]

i have to agree a well toned down article ..........almost a pleasure to read. almost like he didnt write it lol.
i dislike his previous articles ....just to full of hate.

 

[XMAN245]

i have to agree a well toned down article ..........almost a pleasure to read. almost like he didnt write it lol.
i dislike his previous articles ....just to full of hate.

Ever stop to think it was pleasent because he's happy that, based on his mis-information, Fermi wont be a power house of a GPU compared to R870.

 

[kadozer]

Its Charlie guyz cmon blah blah oh wait positive article he must be right!

 

[Wotan]

...

Sounds like you need some http://www.walgreens.com/store/cata...frgl_660271&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku1148133

Regardless of past performance, Charlie seems to be right on the money with this one.

His info regarding Fermi has been pretty good. I can't speak for his earlier failings.

It's really going to be an interesting couple of years for Nvidia. They can certainly save face (and charge a premium, which they will have to do to make money on Fermi) if they can clock Fermi high enough to outperform the 5870. Tesla and Tegra need to start paying dividends regardless or maybe Intel will finally get to pay the price they want for Nvidia.

 

[zero2dash]

Seems like Charlie throws up (literally) a slant nV article once in awhile so he can say "I'm not biased, look I wrote a 'not too derogatory at nV' article for a change!".

 

[XMAN245]

Sounds like you need some http://www.walgreens.com/store/cata...frgl_660271&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku1148133

Regardless of past performance, Charlie seems to be right on the money with this one.

His info regarding Fermi has been pretty good. I can't speak for his earlier failings.

It's really going to be an interesting couple of years for Nvidia. They can certainly save face (and charge a premium, which they will have to do to make money on Fermi) if they can clock Fermi high enough to outperform the 5870. Tesla and Tegra need to start paying dividends regardless or maybe Intel will finally get to pay the price they want for Nvidia.

Charlie has consistently called for ATI to outperform Nvidia with each release. Now he hsa been spoon fed nonsence so He's happy. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you for him to write up a retraction about his "performance predictions" concering Fermi when it hits and it 40-50% faster on average over 5870.

 

[kadozer]

Charlie has consistently called for ATI to outperform Nvidia with each release. Now he hsa been spoon fed nonsence so He's happy. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you for him to write up a retraction about his "performance predictions" concering Fermi when it hits and it 40-50% faster on average over 5870.

Joke of the day. That would make it 2.5-3x faster than a GTX280.

 

[XMAN245]

Joke of the day. That would make it 2.5-3x faster than a GTX280.

Where do you get your numbers from. The overall average of 5870 to GTX285 is in the 35-40% range now after 2 new drivers, so 40-50% faster than 5870 would put it in the 85-100% faster than a GTX285. 100% faster = 2x, and Fermi is not going to be 2.5-3x faster than GTX285 cept for maybe those extreme resolution and eye candy settings that are currently the GTX200 line ups short comings.

 

[Wotan]

Charlie has consistently called for ATI to outperform Nvidia with each release. Now he hsa been spoon fed nonsence so He's happy. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you for him to write up a retraction about his "performance predictions" concering Fermi when it hits and it 40-50% faster on average over 5870.

Hey, if Nvidia is able to pull that off, kudos for them. It would be a bright spot on a severely tarnished reputation and a validation of their current (seemingly problematic) strategy.

Charlie may yet eat his words.

Though, you should probably refrain from pulling out performance numbers out of your ass while talking about another's credibility.

 

[XMAN245]

Hey, if Nvidia is able to pull that off, kudos for them. It would be a bright spot on a severely tarnished reputation and a validation of their current (seemingly problematic) strategy.

Charlie may yet eat his words.

Though, you should probably refrain from pulling out performance numbers out of your ass while talking about another's credibility.

hey, if they dont hit atleast 35% over 5870, I'll post an ooops, I was wrong and I have no news site that I run or review site unlike someone else, but unlike him, I will post an oops i was wrong.

 

[eric66]

rops and tmus on fermi are lower than double gtx 285 and with frequency problems best scenario is 20 or 30 percent faster than 5870 i don't even see that one happening

 

[Matthew Kane]

http://charliedemerjianisadouchebag.blogspot.com/

haha nice find

 

[__hollywood|meow]

do they have one of those sites for fuad? that'd be a good laugh as well. both complete trash "journalists"

I like semmiaccurate/fudzilla/theinquirer for the same reason i like the [H]. I can read about some information and use my own good judgement to decide what I think is good information.

thats like comparing the wall street journal and a throwaway tabloid like the star. one has facts and a tiny bit of hopeful yet wary speculation with tightly reigned professionalism...and the other is basically making things up, drawing wild conclusions from quote-mined sound bites of press conferences and press releases, and overall just thrashing around in its own shit. sometimes the inq/fudz is partway right...thats called a "coincidence"

 

[RAD]

This may be the least biased article I have ever read written by Charlie. I almost wonder if it was written by someone else and posted under his name. It has about 1/10 of the usual venom he writes regarding Nvidia.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Encouraging news, if true. My big tax refund oughtta be direct deposited by then.

 

[ZerazaX]

Yeah Charlie's been so horrible wrong lately. I mean, he wrote:

Larrabee wasn't going to be axed
5890 was going to be named 5870X2
Fermi and yields
Fermi and its spins

Oh wait, so far those first two were indeed true (and he did indeed report them) and so far, his yields and spins story is all we have to go off on why Fermi still isn't available, and [H] has corroborated that lately

It's one thing to dislike the guy for having a bias, it's another to completely call him baseless when he has been in fact accurate before (once you sift through his bile), ignoring what he says, and go on believing your hopes and dreams will come true

These threads always end up being groups of "la la la i can't hear you" arguing with each other

 

[Silus]

Sounds like you need some http://www.walgreens.com/store/cata...frgl_660271&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku1148133

Such witty comment and link from a Charlie fan....Can't say I'm surprised...

Regardless of past performance, Charlie seems to be right on the money with this one.

His info regarding Fermi has been pretty good. I can't speak for his earlier failings.

It's really going to be an interesting couple of years for Nvidia. They can certainly save face (and charge a premium, which they will have to do to make money on Fermi) if they can clock Fermi high enough to outperform the 5870. Tesla and Tegra need to start paying dividends regardless or maybe Intel will finally get to pay the price they want for Nvidia.

He's right on the money in what exactly ?

So, the guy is guesstimating performance of a new architecture, of which there's no base comparison, with clock frequencies only, that are themselves a rumor from an unknown source and "he's right on the money" ? Really ??

This is a hopeless cause...the guy can say that the blue sky on a sunny day is actually yellow and you'll believe him...

 

[Silus]

If Nvidia PR didn't spew BS constantly, rebadge old hardware as new, disable their Physix hardware with non-NV video cards, disable SLI in non-NV chipsets. In general, having nothing but contempt for the consumer.

AMD/ATI have problems, but they are a reputable company. They are upfront with their issues and don't treat the consumer with contempt.

The sad part is that you believe they care, but that's your problem

 

[akotlar]

do they have one of those sites for fuad? that'd be a good laugh as well. both complete trash "journalists"



thats like comparing the wall street journal and a throwaway tabloid like the star. one has facts and a tiny bit of hopeful yet wary speculation with tightly reigned professionalism...and the other is basically making things up, drawing wild conclusions from quote-mined sound bites of press conferences and press releases, and overall just thrashing around in its own shit. sometimes the inq/fudz is partway right...thats called a "coincidence"

What professionalism? H reviewers are in no way professionals outside of their self made designation. This is a good, blue collar tech site... Not a knock but no staff at H went to school for journalism, engineering, computer science. I think Kyle took some boxing classes and I'm almost positive he knows how to pop a wheelie on his motorcycle.

 

[akotlar]

The sad part is that you believe they care, but that's your problem

Nvidia resorts to dirty marketing tactics that are absolutely, laughably transparent in their attempt to squeeze money out of the consumer without adding any value, every quarter they don't have a competitive product. Can't say that ATI doesn't love money, but they also focus less on pumping iron and shutting out competing products from cohabitating your system. If AMD was nVidia, you wouldn't be able to use an i7 and a 5870 in the same system. nVidia does not give a poo about consumer satisfaction. Looking for fermi? Check out the Geforce 310. Out now! I heard it's 25 faster than ever!

 

[WorldExclusive]

What professionalism? H reviewers are in no way professionals outside of their self made designation. This is a good, blue collar tech site... Not a knock but no staff at H went to school for journalism, engineering, computer science. I think Kyle took some boxing classes and I'm almost positive he knows how to pop a wheelie on his motorcycle.

Some times the more a person knows, the more of a douche bag the person becomes. There are a lot of review sites that rate down hardware because they are self proclaimed know-it-all in the PC world. I like the blue collar feel to the site, I don't need a degree in computer engineering to understand.

If AMD was nVidia, you wouldn't be able to use an i7 and a 5870 in the same system.

Excellent Point.

 

[kllrnohj]

What professionalism? H reviewers are in no way professionals outside of their self made designation. This is a good, blue collar tech site... Not a knock but no staff at H went to school for journalism, engineering, computer science. I think Kyle took some boxing classes and I'm almost positive he knows how to pop a wheelie on his motorcycle.

Professionalism has nothing to do with going to school. I suggest you pull out a dictionary and look the word up.

Likewise, blue-collar workers *ARE* professionals. I don't know why you think they aren't, but you're wrong.

The sad part is that you believe they care, but that's your problem

Most companies DO care, you've just been an Apple fan for too long (sorry, couldn't resist )

 

[Silus]

Nvidia resorts to dirty marketing tactics that are absolutely, laughably transparent in their attempt to squeeze money out of the consumer without adding any value, every quarter they don't have a competitive product. Can't say that ATI doesn't love money, but they also focus less on pumping iron and shutting out competing products from cohabitating your system. If AMD was nVidia, you wouldn't be able to use an i7 and a 5870 in the same system. nVidia does not give a poo about consumer satisfaction. Looking for fermi? Check out the Geforce 310. Out now! I heard it's 25 faster than ever!

I'm compelled to ask: Charlie is that you ?

Anyway, every quarter they don't have a competitive product ? So ATI finally competes with them since the release of the HD 4800s (1 year and a half ago) and its NVIDIA that doesn't have a competitive product every quarter ? Have you been living under a rock or is that just selective thinking ? I'm betting on the latter...

And yes, a money making company doesn't care about consumer satisfaction. But they somehow require consumer satisfaction to make money...a paradox in your world isn't it ? Or maybe you're wrong ? Nah that can't be it...

 

[Silus]

Most companies DO care, you've just been an Apple fan for too long (sorry, couldn't resist )

As a joke, that is the only way that me being a fan of Apple, is remotely possible

 

[kadozer]

In this thread calling Charlie names and the devil discredits everything he's been right about this year.

 

[Kowan]

I prefer reading the threads @ B3D if I want read about what Charlie posts before he posts it.

 

[Wotan]

Such witty comment and link from a Charlie fan....Can't say I'm surprised...



He's right on the money in what exactly ?

So, the guy is guesstimating performance of a new architecture, of which there's no base comparison, with clock frequencies only, that are themselves a rumor from an unknown source and "he's right on the money" ? Really ??

This is a hopeless cause...the guy can say that the blue sky on a sunny day is actually yellow and you'll believe him...

I should have been more clear as to what he was right on the money about. I meant his timeframe for release. The performance numbers I haven't got a clue about to be honest. I have no idea how he is working his math

His Fermi timeline has been pretty damn good thus far. He has a pretty good idea of how long things take in terms of production.

From his article on May 14th http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

GT300 will be quarters late, and without a miracle, miss back to school, the Windows 7 launch, and Christmas. It won't come close to R870 in graphics performance, and it will cost much more to make. This is not an architecture that will dig Nvidia out of its hole, but instead will dig it deeper. It made a Laughabee.

He has a pretty decent understanding of Nvidia's situation at the moment and even way back in May.

Also, the performance numbers I admit I have absolutely no clue as to how he's doing it, but Nvidia's last press release put DPP at 630 GFlops whereas other sites like http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/17815/4 put DPP somewhere around 870 GFlops. The Tesla may be clocked lower for whatever reason, but you get the idea.

If someone came and said that GF100 was going to underperform at this point I wouldn't be surprised and considering that Charlie does seem to have pretty accurate information regarding Fermi as of late (tapeouts, yields, memory controller probs) I'd take his information to be more accurate than other sources like Faud who was saying that we'd see Fermi in late Novemeber up until a few weeks ago.

It's not the Ten Commandments and it could easily be incorrect, but at this point it's very plausible.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

In this thread calling Charlie names and the devil discredits everything he's been right about this year.

Bingo !

Some people on this forum just can't accept their "no-wrong-doing-nvidia" is actually in serious trouble and can't seem to get this generation GPU working. Instead they blast someone who has been spot on with Fermi thus far.

 

[NKD]

I'm compelled to ask: Charlie is that you ?

Anyway, every quarter they don't have a competitive product ? So ATI finally competes with them since the release of the HD 4800s (1 year and a half ago) and its NVIDIA that doesn't have a competitive product every quarter ? Have you been living under a rock or is that just selective thinking ? I'm betting on the latter...

And yes, a money making company doesn't care about consumer satisfaction. But they somehow require consumer satisfaction to make money...a paradox in your world isn't it ? Or maybe you're wrong ? Nah that can't be it...

man I love reading your posts, are you really telling me the hd 4800 series wasn't competitive, oh shit as far as I remember that is the only reason nvidia dropped prices, hmm, lets see I am pretty damn right about that, may be you can go back and check or ask the forum members here, an honest person would agree, gtx 285 went from 600 to 450 and gtx 260 went to 300 from 500, is that because ati didn't have a product to compete, and thanks to ati hd 4800 series I was able grab a gtx 285 for less than for hundred a few months after launch, seriously I am just being real and stating facts here, you should start charging nvidia for their defense.

 

[Wotan]

man I love reading your posts, are you really telling me the hd 4800 series wasn't competitive, oh shit as far as I remember that is the only reason nvidia dropped prices, hmm, lets see I am pretty damn right about that, may be you can go back and check or ask the forum members here, an honest person would agree, gtx 285 went from 600 to 450 and gtx 260 went to 300 from 500, is that because ati didn't have a product to compete, and thanks to ati hd 4800 series I was able grab a gtx 285 for less than for hundred a few months after launch, seriously I am just being real and stating facts here, you should start charging nvidia for their defense.

Don't forget it was the 280, not the 285 that they were pricing at 600.

A great article on the 4800 series: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3469&p=1

Also, GTX 280/260 were not competitive parts (not for NV anyway) they were designed to be $400 and $600 parts respectively. The 55nm refresh couldn't have come soon enough. Also, the lack of 5800 cards recently has played in NV's favor by allowing them to keep prices high on their GT200b parts and not have to sell at a loss/cost.

 

[akotlar]

I'm compelled to ask: Charlie is that you ?

Anyway, every quarter they don't have a competitive product ? So ATI finally competes with them since the release of the HD 4800s (1 year and a half ago) and its NVIDIA that doesn't have a competitive product every quarter ? Have you been living under a rock or is that just selective thinking ? I'm betting on the latter...

And yes, a money making company doesn't care about consumer satisfaction. But they somehow require consumer satisfaction to make money...a paradox in your world isn't it ? Or maybe you're wrong ? Nah that can't be it...

Reading comprehension wins prizes with me...

 

[akotlar]

Professionalism has nothing to do with going to school. I suggest you pull out a dictionary and look the word up.

Likewise, blue-collar workers *ARE* professionals. I don't know why you think they aren't, but you're wrong.



Most companies DO care, you've just been an Apple fan for too long (sorry, couldn't resist )

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professionalism

I'd look it up yourself before you try to be pedant. And yes, blue collar workers are professionals when they're working in their own field. Like I said, I'm not knocking [H], but starting to play the "this guys not a professional, I like my site because it is full of professionals" when both parties can lay equal claim to the term, having both had similar amounts of professional training. Just like you wouldn't call someone a plumber unless they went through the appropriate apprenticeship or a journalist unless they went to journalism school (or I suppose worked their way up at a newspaper, and even then I doubt they would pass as "journalists" in this age). They are both amateur tech journalists in that sense. In the sense of those engaged in a practice for profit, both are professionals. No demarcation based on the term exists for Charlie & H.

So yeah, if you want professionals, read B3D, but mainly Real World Tech, both over my head to varying degrees (RWT especially).

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I think that the article has fairly sound reasoning. NVidia really doesn't have much wiggle room left for Fermi, otherwise AMD will have started rolling out refreshes of the 5870, even with the TSMC situation. Not a good look, and even worse performance-wise. I would, however, like to know whether the time estimates are based on past experience with NVidia schedules and the 40nm process, or are just pulled out of thin air.