Father Daughter Build

[Tom_S]

A friend asked me to help him and his daughter build a computer for her 16th birthday. She is extremely intelligent, passionate about gaming and so far excited about the prospect of building a computer. So I’m looking to the forum members to help me keep it exciting for them without breaking the bank.

I can slap one of these together in less than an hour (w/o OS) but that’s not the point. I also need advice on how to keep this entertaining for a teenage girl. As I am 60 and her dad is 70, we might be a little out of touch. I have built several gaming rigs but mostly for guys in their late teens to mid-twenties. I’ll install the CPU but I’m hoping they can do most of the rest themselves, with some guidance from me.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Learning to build a computer and Gaming such as Sims4, Minecraft, Skyrim. She uses a lot of add-ons (stuff stuff packs, adds/links over 8,000 files)in Sims4, she wants to use shader mods in Minecraft, Skyrim is new to her. She used to play WOW but not lately. Going forward she wants to study game development.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
This is tough, I know it’s a tight budget but it is also to be used for the computer tech school she will attend for game development so need to stay under $1,000 and closer to $600 (pipe dream). Tax & Shipping included.
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Its 60 miles or 1 hour to the MC in KCK, but we have friends and family that drive near there often so buying there is doable but usually the taxes kill the deal
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU MB Ram GPU PSU ODD SSD/HDD Case Keyboard Mouse Monitor* Speakers HSF
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
See wall of text below.
6) Will you be overclocking?
It will be covered in her curriculum so she will at least experiment with it.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
23” 1920 x 1080
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Already started buying
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
USB 3, SATA 6Gb/s, backup onboard video would be nice, Crossfire/SLI support to add a second card in the future
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
No. She is adamant about having Win 7, I’m thinking PRO, 64 bit and OEM is okay. I will also set up dual boot Linux Mint 17.2 w/Cinnamon desktop. She will eventually need to move to Win 10 if she intends to develop games.


I think they have already ordered this so the $$ need to be included in the budget
Acer H6 Series H236HLbid @ $129.99

She liked the mid tower size case, it will need USB ports preferably 2 of each or a 3.5 external bay so we can add as needed, it will also need a 5.25 external bay and filters on the intake air locations. White would be nice.

Don’t break the bank over keyboard and speakers, I have a K120 and some S120s she can use until she can afford better, but we will probably need a decent gaming mouse.

I’m pushing for a SSD boot drive Samsung or Crucial 240 to 256, she already has 3 Tb USB external storage. Should I include an internal HDD for games and if so how big?

GPU, red or green does not really matter but right now I find it easier to set up and maintain AMD/ATI in Linux and Win 10 (especially multiple displays) however that can change at any time.

Memory, I’m thinking 2 x 8, speed is probably not critical but cas 10 or lower would be great.

I will part with the following for this family project (but I’d rather not) if it will help them stay on budget.

I have the following BNIB on hand and will match current prices (including MIR) for the same models from places like Newegg and Amazon, etc.:
Asus Z87 Gryphon
Asus Z87-A
Cool Master Hyper 212 plus

I have the following two CPUs BNIB available:
Core i5 4670k @ $177.74
Core i7 4770k @ $221.99

I have one used combo I might part with Z77 Sabertooth (1 year old) + i7 3770nonk (16 months old) + Win 7 Pro @ $510
It will OC to 4.2, prime95 stable in 60 to 65 degree C range.

Thanks everybody!

 

[Dangman]

So the monitor is already bought. So that leaves $870 left in the budget for the PC.

Really ZERO chance of her being willing to go with Windows 8.1? That would free up $40 to $50 right there which means either more RAM, more storage, or more performance.

Of the parts you've mentioned, if you're absolutely sure that you want that system to be overclock capable, then unfortunately you're giving up that 4670K as a new overclock seutp would blow her budget pretty bad. That $105 Z87 Gryphon may or may not end up being used for this family project as well. The HSF doesn't matter since the Hyper 212 Evo (improved version of the 212+ ) is only $31.

 

[Tom_S]

I don't think she'll budge on the OS but maybe I can convince Dad as its mostly his money. It looks like they got that monitor for $119.99.
The CPU I don't mind so much, But I will probably replace the MB.

Actually I have Win 7 home Prem I picked for for $79.99, unless you're thinking she needs more than 16 Mb. Would that help the Budget?

 

[yoyo0221]

......

You have PM

 

[Dangman]

I don't think she'll budge on the OS but maybe I can convince Dad as its mostly his money. It looks like they got that monitor for $119.99.
The CPU I don't mind so much, But I will probably replace the MB.

Actually I have Win 7 home Prem I picked for for $79.99, unless you're thinking she needs more than 16 Mb. Would that help the Budget?

She may not need more than 16GB of RAM now but she would need it later on if she ever gets serious about game development. That Windows 7 HP might still let her get 16GB+ more of RAM if it's still upgradeable to Windows 10 for free. So as long you can make sure that she can and will upgrade to Windows 10, that Windows 7 HP would help out the budget by freeing up $60.

As for the motherboard, that's actually going to be on you to be honest: If you want her to have the highest OC, possible, your $105 Asus Z87 Gryphon would be her best bet. But if you don't care how high the OC is and you really want to keep that Asus, then her budget option would be this $8 cheaper motherboard:
$97 - MSI Z97 PC MATE Intel Z97 ATX Motherboard

Let us know what's going to go on with the OS and mobo and we'll continue from there.

 

[Tom_S]

I'll make the OS happen that way.

The OC will just be temporary, to experiment with during that class so no big deal. I'll let them use my sig rig if it comes down to it.

Why not the Z87-A? With MIR its a lot lower than the Gryphon.

 

[Chris_Lonardo]

First, let me just say that this is a great effort on both your part and her father's. When I have kids of my own, this is exactly the sort of support and encouragement that I hope to provide.

This is perhaps outside the scope of what you're asking, but physical computing is now quite easy and gets young people a lot more interested in development as a whole. If you want to really set the hook, get her an Arduino kit to tinker with as well. It will open all sorts of doors into other areas (robotics, Internet of Things, etc.) and encourage her to start thinking about development in a broader context. Here's a nice starter option (maybe add a servo and ESP8266 wifi module for a combined extra $10)- http://www.microcenter.com/product/435328/Arduino_Compatible_Basic_Starter_Kit

And the first of a great series of beginner tutorials: https://learn.adafruit.com/lesson-0-getting-started

Getting an SSD as a boot volume should be mandatory in 2015. My vote is for a 250GB Samsung 850 Evo.

For anything approximating productive development, I don't know how people live with less than 2 monitors. I feel pretty strongly about that one, regardless of the type of development being done. That's something that can always be added down the road, though.

 

[Dangman]

I'll make the OS happen that way.

The OC will just be temporary, to experiment with during that class so no big deal. I'll let them use my sig rig if it comes down to it.

If overclocking isn't really needed at all, that would shave off $40 to $55 off the build since no real need for a 3rd party HSF and an overclock capable motherboard. So no overclocking then?

Why not the Z87-A? With MIR its a lot lower than the Gryphon.

If you look at the Newegg user reviews for the Z87-A, its reliability is questionable at this point. Yes I do own and use a Z87-A as well so those user reviews are very concerning.

 

[Tom_S]

Okay kill the overclock.

I have a Z87-A with a G3258 that I've been testing win 10 with since the first release insiders, and I've built 2 Z87-a's for other people and never had a lick of trouble out of any of them.

edit: Maybe I need to go write some reviews. ( i must be tired)

 

[Chris_Lonardo]

MicroCenter has some pretty great combo deals. Bearing in mind that the overclocking would be a temporary/test thing, I came up with the following:

850 Evo 250GB- $79.99
EVGA DDR3 PC3-2400 16GB kit (2x8gb)- $84.99
MSI H81M-E33 motherboard- $22.99
Intel Core i5-4590 (retail)- $159.99
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition ATX case- $22.99
Solid Gear Basix 600W PSU- $19.99
ASUS GeForce GTX 960 Overclocked 2GB- $189.99
________________________________
$580.93 before taxes

This doesn't include an OS or the monitor that's already been ordered, but comes in low enough to free up budget for an additional monitor, or whatever other area could be beefed up.

 

[Tom_S]

Thanks for the info tutorials Chris, I'll pass it along. Her dad and brother in-law are really in to the robotics but she just couldn't care less.

I'm pushing for the SSD and she has already asked about a second monitor but its not in the budget right now..

 

[Dangman]

Any chance you have extra 120mm fans lying around? How about a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter/bracket? Or are ghetto mods cool if it gets under budget?

 

[Tom_S]

MicroCenter has some pretty great combo deals. Bearing in mind that the overclocking would be a temporary/test thing, I came up with the following:

850 Evo 250GB- $79.99
EVGA DDR3 PC3-2400 16GB kit (2x8gb)- $84.99
MSI H81M-E33 motherboard- $22.99
Intel Core i5-4590 (retail)- $159.99
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition ATX case- $22.99
Solid Gear Basix 600W PSU- $19.99
ASUS GeForce GTX 960 Overclocked 2GB- $189.99
________________________________
$580.93 before taxes

This doesn't include an OS or the monitor that's already been ordered, but comes in low enough to free up budget for an additional monitor, or whatever other area could be beefed up.

That motherboard might be a little limiting for future upgrade. I couldn't find any reviews on that PSU. I'll see if likes the look of that case.

 

[Tom_S]

Any chance you have extra 120mm fans lying around? How about a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter/bracket? Or are ghetto mods cool if it gets under budget?

I have the bracket and these fans; Fractal Design Silent Series R2 or LT, both 120s and maybe some Corsair 120s and 140s somewhere but the Corsairs are a little noisy.

 

[Chris_Lonardo]

That motherboard might be a little limiting for future upgrade. I couldn't find any reviews on that PSU. I'll see if likes the look of that case.

Fair point on the motherboard. MC has their other combo-eligible boards are listed out here- http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/ac50bdae#/ac50bdae/33

I bought one of those cases a while back from them, and was pleasantly surprised at the value for money.

In terms of power supplies.. I have a hard time getting excited about the premium ones. I just want it to do one thing- supply power while not dying. I've had enough expensive PSUs die on me that by this point, I kind of just roll the dice and get the cheapest one that doesn't look completely shady (except in server applications, where I'll pay for a good warranty).

 

[Tom_S]

The sad part is I tried to buy two of these today

http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=97531&vpn=110-B2-0750-VR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1311

I got 1 before they went out of stock but its promised for a golf simulator I'm building.

 

[Dangman]

$177 - Your Core i5 4670K
$71 - ASRock H97M Pro4 Intel H97 mATX Motherboard
$80 - Kingston HyperX FURY HX316C10FK2/16 2x8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$192 - MSI GTX 960 2GB PCI-E Video Card
$85 - Crucial BX100 250GB SSD
$53 - Western Digital Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$18 - Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD Burner
$65 - Antec NeoECO C NeoECO 620C 620W
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$80 - Your Windows 7 Home Premium
$24 - Logitech M510 Wireless Mouse
----
Total: $895 shipped

So technically $15 over budget up front. BUt if you get the MIR on the PSU, that'll drop it to under budget. Let's go through the build:

CPU: Even though she's not overclocking, your Core i5 4670K is still a good deal since it's cheaper and 10% faster than the cheapest brand new Core i5 CPU available

Mobo and RAM: Not overclock capable but still a fairly solid motherboard and will allow for a future upgrade to 32GB of RAM. Speaking of which, managed to cram in 16GB of RAM into the system. That should keep her set for a bit.

Storage: I'm a firm believer in a SSD + HDD setup. IMO, an external hard drive should be the backup, not the main storage. Rather than let her learn the hard war like the rest of us did what the exact difference between the two is, I'd rather include a cheap 1TB drive. Not to mention that Skyrim mods can take up a lot of space so that 250GB SSD is a bit on the light side. I would have included the Samsung 850 Evo but had to do a bit of penny pinching and MC only offers that Samsung 850 Evo at the $80 price in-store only.

PSU: My experience is different from Chris_Lonardo's: I've had enough cheapy PSUs die and kill hardware to the point where I'd rather spend extra for a better quality PSU. Hence the Antec NeoEco. It's a fairly solid PSU and should be good for just about any single GPU upgrade for a few years.

Case: Luckily you do have extra 120mm fans and a SSD bracket since the Source 210 only has one rear 120mm fan and one 140mm top fan and cannot mount SSDs. Just add two 120mm fans to the front of the case and that case is perfect cooling wise. It's also of higher quality than that Thermaltake V3 while having significantly better cable management and cooling. I know this for a fact because I have a TT V3 and a Source 210 Elite sitting 3 feet away from me right now. The extra money for the Source 210 Elite is worth it IMO.

Yes she will have to borrow your keyboard and speakers for the time being but those are relatively cheap and easy to fix/add-on/upgrade later on. If she really needs to shave off $15 up-front, she can go with this cheaper mouse:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CPGHAA/?tag=extension-kb-20

EDIT: Oh and the GPU: Simply put, an AMD option wasn't going to happen. It would have either A) been too far out of her budget or B) be under budget but have extremely poor bang for the buck performance. So Nvidia was the only logical option due to both being under budget and having a great price to performance value. I would also recommend buying the GPU and PSU NOW as those are sale items.

 

[Tom_S]

Thank you Dangman. Isn't that PSU a Seasonic? If so awesome price. That case I had looked at and rejected because is did not have any filters on the intake fans, will magnetic filters work? She liked the looks of it so I'd like to make it work if possible.

I've got a couple of new M510's that I picked up a while ago for that same price.

Is 2 Gbs really enough for the GPU?

 

[Dangman]

Thank you Dangman. Isn't that PSU a Seasonic? If so awesome price. That case I had looked at and rejected because is did not have any filters on the intake fans, will magnetic filters work? She liked the looks of it so I'd like to make it work if possible.

Yup, that PSU is a Seasonic. An older Seasonic mind you but still a Seasonic. As for filters, if you already have magnetic case filters, I think they should work. I'm not 100% sure to be honest. The problem is that cases under the $80+ price tag that do comes with filters tend to sacrifice a lot (quality, cable management, cooling, features) just to fit in those dust filters. To me, quality, cable management, and cooling trumps dust filters.

Is 2 Gbs really enough for the GPU?

For most games at 1080P, it's enough for the most part. The R9 280X with 3GB of VRAM was just too far out of budget.

 

[Tom_S]

That card is only $6 more incl.shipping and rebate from TD

 

[Dangman]

That card is only $6 more incl.shipping and rebate from TD

I don't factor in MIR until they're actually received.

 

[Tom_S]

I hate dealing with rebates but her dad is a rebate fanatic.

Again thanks for the guidance, I really appreciate it.

 

[diizzy]

Here's another take on it compared to Dangman's suggestions...

ASUS H97M-PLUS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132119
Simply a more solid motherboard overall, also M.2 support and having used my fair share of value brands (ECS, PC Chips, ASRock to mention a few) I wouldn't recommend it in the end.

2 * CORSAIR ValueSelect 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233790
Just plain 1600Mhz RAM, follow JEDEC so it'll just work (tm).

MSI GeForce GTX 960 GTX 960 GAMING 2G 2GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127843
Pretty much the same card, slightly higher clocks...
20$ MiR also available....

Crucial MX200 CT250MX200SSD4 M.2 Type 2280SS (Single Sided) 250GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148955
Not really a fan of the "value" oriented SSD but this is pretty good, write speeds makes a good jump compared to the BX100 series.

TOSHIBA DT01ACA100 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3 (6.0 Gb/S) 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822149382
I've had very good experience with Toshiba's ACA series and given that they have very low failure rate over other brands according to Backblaze I don't see why you'd go for anything else. There's also a promo code available.
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-for-q2-2015/

LG Internal 24x Super Multi with M-DISC Support SATA Model GH24NSC0B
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136276
Simple ODD, not really needed at all these days. Does pretty much the same as the Liteon drive but it's cheaper due to the promo code.

XFX TS Edition PRO650W (P1-650S-NLB9) 650W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207014
Also Seasonic, slightly more power and 5 years warranty compared to 3 (Antec). 5$ more and if the MiR (25$) works it's a really great deal.

Fractal Design Core 2300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352042
Decent case, looks less flimsy than the NZXT.

That ends up at 668.91 (as of writing) without MiR and shipping (seems free if you have an AMEX card?).
A plus (I guess) is that everything is from one etailer.
//Danne

 

[Dangman]

Here's another take on it compared to Dangman's suggestions...

ASUS H97M-PLUS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132119
Simply a more solid motherboard overall, also M.2 support and having used my fair share of value brands (ECS, PC Chips, ASRock to mention a few) I wouldn't recommend it in the end.

Considering the sheer number of failures and issues being reported with Asus' higher end motherboards such as the Asus Z87-A, Z97-A, Z87-K for North American consumers, I'm not sure how exactly you're determining that exact Asus motherboard is going to be reliable than the exact AsRock mobo I listed. In addition, AsRock isn't quite a value brand any more consideiring that many of their product lineup compete directly with high-end and mid-range mobos in the same price range.

2 * CORSAIR ValueSelect 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233790
Just plain 1600Mhz RAM, follow JEDEC so it'll just work (tm)..

Unfortunately OOS at this point in time.

TOSHIBA DT01ACA100 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3 (6.0 Gb/S) 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822149382
I've had very good experience with Toshiba's ACA series and given that they have very low failure rate over other brands according to Backblaze I don't see why you'd go for anything else. There's also a promo code available.
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-for-q2-2015/

Unfortunately, the large number of poor Newegg reviews provide reasonable doubt about Newegg's shipping practices involving those drives. If BackBlaze can provide info showing exactly where they sourced their drives from and if the majority of those Toshibas did in fact come from Newegg, then you'd be 100% right in saying that "I don't see why you'd go for anything else". But unfortunately there's reasonable doubt.

Fractal Design Core 2300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352042
Decent case, looks less flimsy than the NZXT.

The lack of free shipping kills this case as a choice considering that it's $60 shipped. That Fractal case isn't worth an extra $10 over the NZXT Source 210.

 

[diizzy]

ASRock is a value brand that's the whole point with the brand... Feel free to back up your statements regarding failure rates, ASRock does have qutie a bit of failure rate and a much smaller market share. Sometimes it really feels like you selectively discard information... :/
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...-rma-rate-new-update-from-hardware-fr.207128/
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Most-Reliable-Hardware-of-2014-616/#Motherboard
Based on that at best they're on pair...

Yeah, it's out of stock ATM.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226340
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239416
Both great alternatives, Mushkin has been around for a value long time and so has Kingston. Both offers lifetime warranty just like Corsair.

As for the HDDs, they're very commonly used even in the storage forums here (w/o issues) and since we have no idea how many Newegg has sold so the comments are kinda "yeah, they do occasionally break like everything else". Looking at the other sites they have much more positive reviews than Newegg and most ppl who have working hardware doesn't mention it in the reviews so take that with a grain of salt....

Just for the sake of it to prove my point
http://reviews.microcenter.com/3520...drive-reviews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc
http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00134399.html
http://hard.rozetka.com.ua/toshiba_dt01aca100/p228005/ (100+ 5 stars)

Regarding the case I guess that's up to the buyer, glossy plastic have a tendency to not look very nice after a week or so... :/ As others have mentioned in reviews etc it's a really good case at 50-60$ and sturdy.
//Danne

 

[Dangman]

ASRock is a value brand that's the whole point with the brand... Feel free to back up your statements regarding failure rates, ASRock does have qutie a bit of failure rate and a much smaller market share. Sometimes it really feels like you selectively discard information... :/
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...-rma-rate-new-update-from-hardware-fr.207128/
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Most-Reliable-Hardware-of-2014-616/#Motherboard
Based on that at best they're on pair...

Oddly enough I feel the same way about you sometimes. The TPU article is only for one French retailer and may not necessarily reflect American rates. As for the Puget Systems link, it only shows the two Asus motherboards with highest level or reliability. But it doesn't actually mention overall failure rates. Any manufacturer can have diamonds in a sea of crap.

With that said, I don't see how exactly your proof proves anything I said wrong. If the failure rates are similar, then that shows that Asus isn't significantly higher-end or more reliable as you suggest over an AsRock. Now if you got the impression that I said AsRock in general is more reliable than Asus, I apologize as that was that not my intention. My intention was to get information showing that your EXACT Asus motherboard is going to be more reliable than the EXACT AsRock mobo I recommended. Which you have not provided. Even if we go by general overall stats, it appears that the failure rates are nearly the same.

Yeah, it's out of stock ATM.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226340
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239416
Both great alternatives, Mushkin has been around for a value long time and so has Kingston. Both offers lifetime warranty just like Corsair.

You do know I recommended Kingson RAM earlier right?

As for the HDDs, they're very commonly used even in the storage forums here (w/o issues) and since we have no idea how many Newegg has sold so the comments are kinda "yeah, they do occasionally break like everything else". Looking at the other sites they have much more positive reviews than Newegg and most ppl who have working hardware doesn't mention it in the reviews so take that with a grain of salt....

Just for the sake of it to prove my point
http://reviews.microcenter.com/3520...drive-reviews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc
http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00134399.html
http://hard.rozetka.com.ua/toshiba_dt01aca100/p228005/ (100+ 5 stars)

You're right that other sites do show better reliability. But that could be explained through the possibility that other sites simply ship/treat their drives better. In other words, I don't have a real issue with the Toshiba drives themselves. I have an issue with the choice of vendor for those drives as I believe that the way the vendors are treating the drives are affecting their reliability. I'm basically saying I wouldn't buy those Toshiba drives from Newegg but somewhere else in order to ensure greater reliability. Unless other information shows otherwise.

Regarding the case I guess that's up to the buyer, glossy plastic have a tendency to not look very nice after a week or so... :/ As others have mentioned in reviews etc it's a really good case at 50-60$ and sturdy.
//Danne

I don't think you've actually worked with the Source 210 Elite. The glossiness is actually a lot more subtle. I do not think the Fractal case is a bad case. I just don't think it's worth $60 shipped considering that literally $10 more from there gets you an even better case. In other words, to me, the Fractal case is only worth buying at $50 shipped. At $60, a better alternative are not that much more.

 

[diizzy]

I have no idea what you're trying to say, it's not like you have different production lines/components for the US versions compared to the rest of the world.

You most likely did, if I missed that I'm sorry but the quoted prices are confusing as they're wrong and from different etailers. The memory is also available at Newegg (79.99$) which is a good deal overall, for once the HyperX series seems to follow JEDEC specs too.

I said at best, ASRock does actually have higher failure rates overall (based on the info provided above) which is the opposite of what you suggested which also seems inline with general consensus doing a quick survey of the web in terms of quality. They are however a better choice than lets say ECS and really low-end models by MSI, Gigabyte,Asus etc. I don't have any rates and neither do you on these particular models, I can however provide with several etailers having 4.3+ on that Asus model if that's what's worrying you.
Comparing the boards you can tell that the Asrock have wimpier voltage regulation for the CPU and less sound filtering by visually inspecting it. It's cheaper for a reason.... Not saying that expensive boards are great but mid-range is usually the sweet spot between performance / price.

The case costs $42.99 + $18.65 shipping at Amazon is sold by Directron (at least your link provides that information). Feel free to find a better case at 60$ incl shipping.
//Danne

 

[Dangman]

I have no idea what you're trying to say, it's not like you have different production lines/components for the US versions compared to the rest of the world.

THe components may be the same but the way they're shipped and stored may be completely different.

You most likely did, if I missed that I'm sorry but the quoted prices are confusing as they're wrong and from different etailers. The memory is also available at Newegg (79.99$) which is a good deal overall, for once the HyperX series seems to follow JEDEC specs too.

I literally only link parts from two etailers: Newegg and Amazon. Not that confusing. As different pricing, that's mainly due to rapidly changing pricing which is one of the main reasons why I recommend against generic recommended build lists ideas like that one you floated a few months ago.

For many Americans, Amazon is usually going to be the better bet because that American more than likely has or knows someone who paid the $100 for Amazon Prime which allows them to have free two-day shipping on virtually any product directly sold/stored by Amazon.com. Whereas pretty much any free shipping option from Newegg is going to be a week+ ground option. Hence why I generally push for Amazon.com rather Newegg.

I said at best, ASRock does actually have higher failure rates (based on the info provided above) which is the opposite of what you suggested. Which also seems inline with general consensus doing a quick survey of the web, they are however a better choice than lets say ECS and really low-end models by MSI, Gigabyte etc.

But the difference in failure rates are not significantly large to say that Asus is always going to be better than AsRock as you were trying to imply

The case costs $42.99 + $18.65 shipping at Amazon is sold by Directron (at least your link provides that information). Feel free to find a better case at 60$ incl shipping.
//Danne

I did: It's the NZXT Source 210 Elite for $50 shipped. Although I see where the confusion came in: I forgot to link from Newegg rather than Amazon:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146077

FYI, for American consumers, an easy way to keep track of parts pricing while browsing is to use the Hover Hound extension. That plugin helps me determine whether to link from Amazon or Newegg.

 

[AP514]

got to say the NZXT Source 210 Elite is a great case for the price...great bang for the buck.

 

[diizzy]

@ Dangman
Still, it's higher and given the amount of boards they're handling ASRock does have worse reliability overall given the statistics we have available.

//Danne