Farmers get Cornholed by DRM Software

cageymaru

cageymaru

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
22,093
American farmers have always felt underappreciated when in fact they grow food that people consume around the globe. These stalwarts of entrepreneurship still appreciate and practice the D.I.Y. culture that this country was founded upon. But alas every good thing much come to an end to appease the greed of a corporation. John Deere initially made it illegal for American farmers to repair their own tractors that they have worked their fingers to the bone to purchase. By invoking the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, or DMCA, John Deere was breaking the backs of the American farmer by selling them tractors that they are prohibited from repairing.

Then the Library of Congress in 2015 passed an exemption and farmers could work on their tractors. But John Deere refuses to sell the software necessary to unlock the tractor after the repair. A farmer tells the story of a $120 sensor part that stopped him from plowing for 24 hours because he wasn't allowed to diagnose his own tractor, and the local dealer was 40 miles away. This simple part required a technician to come out to repair the fan belts as everything is under a digital lock. Even if he was smart enough to know the exact sensor that he needed to repair his tractor, a John Deere rep still has to input an unlock code to authorize the repair. This has led farmers into the dark recesses of the internet and black market software piracy as John Deere won't sell them the software.

Eastern Europe is now the place that farmers are being forced to turn to if they want to perform D.I.Y. maintenance on their tractors. By using their credit cards on dodgy websites, American farmers can order everything from keygen generated unlock codes to the cabling that they need to interface their computer to the tractor. One unlock mod allows farmers to choose which type of fuel that they run in their machines. John Deere mandates that they control every aspect of the tractor and would surely ban alternative fuel usage.

What do you think? Should farmers be allowed to work on their own tractors? As long as they stick with the rules that the Library of Congress mandated, why should John Deere prohibit them from the software necessary to carry out the repairs? Why are they forced to visit warez websites for their software? Don't they have enough stress already?

A license agreement John Deere required farmers to sign in October forbids nearly all repair and modification to farming equipment, and prevents farmers from suing for "crop loss, lost profits, loss of goodwill, loss of use of equipment … arising from the performance or non-performance of any aspect of the software." "If a farmer bought the tractor, he should be able to do whatever he wants with it," Kevin Kenney, a farmer and right-to-repair advocate in Nebraska, told me. "You want to replace a transmission and you take it to an independent mechanic—he can put in the new transmission but the tractor can't drive out of the shop. "What happens in 20 years when there's a new tractor out and John Deere doesn't want to fix these anymore?" the farmer using Ukrainian software told me. "Are we supposed to throw the tractor in the garbage, or what?"
 
Guess it's time to buy a Case instead? With all the buy-outs and mergers, there aren't a whole lot of options left for tractors.
 
vegeta535 said:
This does set a dangerous precedent. All car and electronics manufacturer will love this.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing,
The same black market scanners and diagnostic tools are available overseas for way less than their local made counterparts, but I have made use of them for doing my own maintenance and auto repairs. (places like odb2tool or Rosstech make a their business on these items)

Granted I grew up on a farm and had to keep stuff running, following repair manuals. more modern vehicles are getting closer to "you can access this info" and "clear these codes from the cluster"
but figuring out what sensor P090006 is can be a pain.

EPA regulations requiring software be tracked by Manufacturer and not allowing updates, is a pain. but some can do it.
the trouble is when you change the software the operation is different.
 
Monkey God said:
1) Read license agreements
2) If you dont like them, dont buy it
3) Fuck John Deere
Click to expand...

What are equivalent alternatives to John Deere's equipment? Or does John Deere have a monopoly?
Well if you don't like our products, then purchase from some other manufacturer. Oh wait. We are the only manufacturer.
south-park-s17e02c05-the-cable-company-runaround-16x9.jpg
 
Last edited:
Monkey God said:
1) Read license agreements
2) If you dont like them, dont buy it
3) Fuck John Deere
Click to expand...

It's not that simple. When an industry colludes to undermine the customer, you often don't have options.

However, if they are looking for the law to be fair, they'd probably be better off getting a service level agreement put in place or otherwise demanding a contract that avoids the "not our problem" clauses.

Start talking equipment leases at competitive rates with service contracts and SLAs. Because it's not theirs apparently, not salable when support is discontinued, and the level of downtime is not consistent with business viability in that industry.
 
NeghVar said:
What are equivalent alternatives to John Deere's equipment? Or does John Deere have a monopoly?
Click to expand...
when it comes to $300,000 tractor or $900,000 harvisters they are all very similar, John Deer is just one of the better ones. (just like a BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Bentley or Rolls Royce they all have features that are different and make them better)
 
First off, I want to say that I DON'T support what John Deere is doing here.

However, I want to add that this is not a new practice in the industry. I used to work in IT for an equipment dealer that sells and services of a wide range of "light heavy equipment", ranging from small riding mowers through all but the largest of equipment. They also deal with forklifts and pallet jacks. Virtually ALL of the equipment they sell is locked down in a similar regard. So if you are thinking "Fuck John Deere" then you will also think "Fuck Case, Toyota, Bobcat, etc".

I will also say that those manufacturers also try to control the distribution of their software even at the dealer level. They simply want to account for every installation of the software, all the way to each individual technician's name, date of hire, and classroom regimen. And finally, I'll say this: from talking to points of contact at other equipment dealers, piracy of their software is rampant at that level, also.
 
Seems there is an opening for the other manufacturers to step up to.
Set up a new company called Not John Deere, immediate advantage.
 
John Deere fucking over customers, Apple fucking over customers, customers fucking over customers... Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria! :D
 
Dont tell me John Deere doesn't have competition.
NeghVar said:
What are equivalent alternatives to John Deere's equipment? Or does John Deere have a monopoly?
Well if you don't like our products, then purchase from some other manufacturer. Oh wait. We are the only manufacturer.
Click to expand...

Except they dont have a monopoly.
 
Just another story of big corporate America trying to fuck the founders of our country. Between this and Monsanto I dunno why anyone would want to take up farming at this point. You either snag a fat contract or be squeezed between the giants.
 
I don't understand how this can stand. It's the very definition of running a monopoly.

This wouldn't fly in the EU. We just passed a law a few years ago that car manufacturers can't force new car owners to use their dealers shops for servicing if they don't want to void warranty. Well they still can't do it themselves, but new law says any receipt from an independent service is good enough to keep the warranty. I guess the same law applies to heavy machinery as well not just cars.
 
Corporate greed at its worst !! I know John Deer et al will all say that non factory repairs are inferior to their own over priced monopoly, and locking their machinery down through software just goes to prove the lengths they will go to to effectively blackmail farmers into using their service staff. There are plenty of highly skilled mechanics and engineers who could repair these to the same standard and for less money if they weren't locked out from doing so.
It makes me sick that companies can get away with practices like this. I hope all farmers decide to buy elsewhere when its time to replace their tractors and machinery. It won't be long before John Deere have to have a rethink about their underhanded practices when their profits take a hit !!

Wow, thank god I got that off my chest !!! Rant over :mad::mad::mad:
 
Monkey God said:
Dont tell me John Deere doesn't have competition.


Except they dont have a monopoly.
Click to expand...
They make it sound like they do. They make it sound like John Deere products are their only option. What are the other brands?
 
I dunno. John Deere makes the same case as Blizzard did a little while ago having to do with reverse engineering their software.

You can't take both sides of the issue. One one side, Blizzard claims copyright infringement to protect it's customers from cheaters.

On the other side, John Deere protects it's diagnostic software to make sure that no one besides itself has the right to modify the code/interface with the embedded system.

This both points to the DMCA as having negative effects on ownership. Even in John Deere's case, in the manual they state that you have a license to operate the equipment. It's a lot easier to understand the service aspect when it comes to software. But software is in hardware as well.
 
This is the same BS that Apple is pulling with the "You can only use approved Apple Home Buttons" crap.

That farmer who couldn't plow for 24 hours needs to file a small claims court case for lost time and damages resulting from Deere's failure to timely repair. High probability that the judge is/was a farmer or is kin to a farmer.

The rest of us that are in the US need to go to town hall meetings with our local Congress critters and ask when they will sponsor "Right to Own and Repair" legislation.
 
Luckily when auto makers tried this there was significant pushback and it didn't fly in the courts, but they have been trying. This bigger issue is the stupidity of the DMCA, and it's failure at large to do what it was designed to do and instead be used for thousands upon thousands of frivolous suits, and shakedowns and other nonsense.
 
NeghVar said:
They make it sound like they do. They make it sound like John Deere products are their only option. What are the other brands?
Click to expand...

As a random outside observer who lives near an agricultural area, it seems like there are a shit ton. Kubota, Case, and New Holland are all brands I have seen at local farm equipment stores. There's also this:

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/
 
NeghVar said:
What are equivalent alternatives to John Deere's equipment? Or does John Deere have a monopoly?
Well if you don't like our products, then purchase from some other manufacturer. Oh wait. We are the only manufacturer...................
Click to expand...

Having a monopoly is not in and of itself illegal.

But John Deer does not have a monopoly. They do have a reputation though and that reputation has made John Deere the big dog. These farmers have grown to trust John Deere and if it costs more then it costs more, it's still cheaper than watching your crop waste away in the fields cause your tractor keeps breaking down. I'm not saying a JD won't break down, but they do have that reputation for a reason.

You know, I do IT work in a software development lab. I have many developers here that are smart people and they know their shit. But we don't give them admin rights to the infrastructure and it's not because they are ignorant on how to do things. It's cause we are the one's responsible and we are the ones who work every day and know how we have engineered this lab. There is always more than one way to skin a cat and we know how this cat has been skinned. They have the skills, but they don't have the local knowledge and they aren't the ones on the blame line if things get screwed up. So they don't get admin rights no matter how qualified they are.

To a degree, I can see why JD might be sensitive on who they allow to work on this equipment. A search leads me to believe that JD licenses other service centers to repair their equipment. I am sure they pay for the privilege.

I'm not sure if these tractors have reached the level of the storage systems I work on, but sometimes I wish I worked in a non-classified facility like I used to. I had times when NetApp sent me replacement drives cause I had one that failed. A couple of times the drive arrived on my desk before I was aware one had failed. That's good service, hell that's great service, but it isn't cheap.

This article is on a tech site. There's a lot of interest in this topic of DIY repairs. I just wonder if this subject is really such a big issue with most farmers or if this one guy is "that guy". I'm sure others know more and have a better view on this one.
 
wow, that sucks. I can't remember what it was... but there was similar stuff with some specific cars where you could only get stuff repaired at the dealership or some crap like that. :p
 
And this is another reason I hate John Deer. I bought one just for the name, a home mower in 2006, and the engine mower exploded in less than 8 months. They denied warranty because my air filter was dirty.... Even though I had bought a replacement from them just 2 months before, as your supposed to replace every 6 on my model because I couldn't find the receipt to prove it a $800 mower down the drain. I despise John Deer.
 
I guess John Deere wants to go out of business. They should after pulling this shit. Granted, most farms now are corporate farms, however, the few family farmers that are left do not deserve to be given the shaft like this.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
I dunno. John Deere makes the same case as Blizzard did a little while ago having to do with reverse engineering their software.

You can't take both sides of the issue. One one side, Blizzard claims copyright infringement to protect it's customers from cheaters.

On the other side, John Deere protects it's diagnostic software to make sure that no one besides itself has the right to modify the code/interface with the embedded system.

This both points to the DMCA as having negative effects on ownership. Even in John Deere's case, in the manual they state that you have a license to operate the equipment. It's a lot easier to understand the service aspect when it comes to software. But software is in hardware as well.
Click to expand...

There is different context here. In Blizzard's case, This developer provided players with a means to cheat and get an unfair advantage over those who play by the rules. In John Deere's case, this is about forcing farmers to do all servicing through JD at inflated prices. This is motivated completely by greed.
 
I love this!!!!

Finally an example that can be easily understood by the common man. John Deer may indeed be the straw that breaks the camel's back
 
I dont know if JD has gone far enough yet to get the kind of backlash that is needed, but this is just stupid the road they are on! I am very much a DIY guy, and I am one family tree brach away from a field loving farming family. My family history is in farming and self repairs of the equipment. Farming is very time sensitive and any equipment down time at the wrong time (i.e. a combine during the grain harvest) can have significant effects!

I am 100% against software locking anything... it only hurts the few people who weren't going to get the supplier to do the warranty work anyway.

There has been a lot of talk about what JD is doing, does anyone know if Kubota or Ford are going to the same extreme?

I think these days JD is just trading on name brand awareness...
 
vegeta535 said:
This does set a dangerous precedent. All car and electronics manufacturer will love this.
Click to expand...

The car manufacturers tried something similar many years ago (iirc) where you had to get the car serviced with them or it'd void the warranty (e.g. replacing an unrelated part voided the warranty for everything). It was shot down as you can't require warranty to be performed by a particular entity. Even those "warranty void if broken" stickers are illegal, per the same law, companies just put them there to make you call their bluff (1975 Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act) .

John Deere twisted the DMCA to realize the goal of what the car makers were going for. Sure, you can work on your vehicle and replace parts anyway you see fit. But the software won't work unless it's reset by a JD tech.

They then sue anyone who comes out with unlock tools / drm-free workarounds because of the DMCA's anti-circumvention rules. It's a completely twisted usage of the DMCA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top