Fact or Wild Claim

[EvilAlchemist]

I just spent a week with a q6600 making more points on 4 CPU clients than I could with the SMP

Could this be possible?

If the good 2539 Point WU are almost out .... could you run 4 clients on a Q6600 and get more points ...

I know it really depends on the WU and Ghz ... but what do you think?

If we can't come up with a def answer, I am willing to test on one of my diskless rigs if some other will help verify results .....

 

[ICE_9]

I am saying possible. I have had WU that on a single client put out over 800 PPD per core. It is very much a luck of the draw though.

 

[Xilikon]

Yes, it's possible but not a sure bet. Most WU will be slower than SMP but there is a few (I think those are DGromacs).

Also, it may be possible his Q6600 is not overclocked. A Q6600 at 3.6 GHz can produce up to 4500 ppd in my case and I don't think 4x standard clients will beat this.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Back when the 600 pointers were 600 points and the 384 pointers were 384 points you could get close to the output of the Linux SMP client as long as you got a steady diet of those. Since the point values of those work units has been lowered it's a lot tougher to do.

As for dgromacs and other cores, I'm not sure what they produce. I'm not sure I've ever seen any of them running on my Core2 machines. I do know I get much better PPD on them (sometimes up to 75% better) on my P4 rig at work compared to the regular gromacs.

However, getting bonus work units with the regular clients is a crap shoot. Some people will get lucky and pull bonus WU after bonus WU while others won't be able to get them no matter what they do. It's all luck of the draw. Personally, I'll stick to the SMP client for now as it gives a steady PPD for the most part.

 

[Crazy Larry]

Don't most people with quads run 2 instances of the SMP? I would think you'd get more points than only running one instance.

 

[Pocatello]

Don't most people with quads run 2 instances of the SMP? I would think you'd get more points than only running one instance.

I don't. Just one SMP for me. No VM's either. Not yet anyway.

 

[Xilikon]

In my setup, I have 2 VM running 2 SMP clients and a console windows client to pick off stray cycles. The standard console will vary between 100 ppd with a crappy WU to 750 WU with some nice dgromacs. Right now, it's working on a WU (forgot the number) worth 1741 points but taking several days to crunch for a average of 350 ppd.

 

[aldamon]

I don't. Just one SMP for me. No VM's either. Not yet anyway.

This is why you can never distance yourself from MixManSC. You're leaving PPD on the table.

 

[Xilikon]

This is why you can never distance yourself from MixManSC. You're leaving PPD on the table.

Or he's too comfortable to be a twin

 

[SmokeRngs]

Don't most people with quads run 2 instances of the SMP? I would think you'd get more points than only running one instance.

It all depends. Running VMs increases your RAM usage and for a machine that sees use daily, I don't suggest less than 4 gig of RAM total for the machine. This can be limiting for a lot of people. While setting up VMWare and a couple VMs isn't really all that difficult, it can be very intimidating if you've never done it before. Reinstalling the OS isn't a big deal for me so if I hosed it when messing with VMs back when I first started it wouldn't be a big deal to me. This isn't the same case for everyone.

For the most part, a lot of people don't want the extra work or effort which goes into running dual VMs. I don't blame them, it can be a pain to setup the first time or two. Once they are running they seem to be a start it and forget it type deal. I've only been running VMs for folding for a little more than a week but I don't expect to need to do anything to them to keep them running other than replacing the beta folding client with a newer one when the expiration date for the current one gets close.

Either way is fine although you will get much better PPD out of dual VMs over a single SMP client. It's all in what you run and how you want to run it.

 

[Tigerbiten]

Don't most people with quads run 2 instances of the SMP? I would think you'd get more points than only running one instance.

The SMP client does not scale well going from 2 cores to 4 cores.
A 2.66 Ghz dual core box will pull down ~1,500 PpD, a 2.66 Ghz quad core will only pull down ~2,400 PpD. Running 2x VM's on the same Quad core box will pull down 3,200 PpD.

I'm gaining ~200 PpD from running Linux on my Dual core boxen vs Windoze per client.
I'm gaining ~400 PpD from running VM's on my Quads per client.
My PpD gain on my 10 Boxen over a straight Windoze setup is ~6,000 PpD.

Also the setup is more stable as the VM clients are independent of the outside network.

The down side is that the VM's need more resorces to set up and dont give up cycles like the straight client will.
But most of my boxen are pure folding Boxen so thats livable.

Luck ...............

 

[schenks]

Definitely possible. I've been running double gromacs on my P4 this week for ~150 PPD. That's up from the normal 60 PPD that I hit on that. If I take into account my A64 3500 that runs ~200-250 PPD on normal WUs, you'd be talking about 500+ PPD on that one. If I'm running on a Quad, you'd get even better production per client, so will it match an SMP? yes. dual SMP? maybe not.

 

[HighYield]

If the SMP client doesn't scale well for 4 cores over two, what are the options for folks that can't do the VMs. My only Q6600 is my main box. It is running 64 bit vista (4Gb ram). I am under the impression that 64 bit vista has problems with the free VM software....is that true?
To install 2 instances of the windows SMP client can you just copy the original FAH folder to a new location with a new name and configure it as machine (n+1). Would you need to set the cpu usage to 50% for each client or just leave it at 100%. I suppose it would also need the affinity changer....anybody try this with 64bit vista? I know that's a lot of questions but we can't be wasting cpu cycles when there is folding to do.

 

[schenks]

If the SMP client doesn't scale well for 4 cores over two, what are the options for folks that can't do the VMs. My only Q6600 is my main box. It is running 64 bit vista (4Gb ram). I am under the impression that 64 bit vista has problems with the free VM software....is that true?
To install 2 instances of the windows SMP client can you just copy the original FAH folder to a new location with a new name and configure it as machine (n+1). Would you need to set the cpu usage to 50% for each client or just leave it at 100%. I suppose it would also need the affinity changer....anybody try this with 64bit vista? I know that's a lot of questions but we can't be wasting cpu cycles when there is folding to do.

I've got VMs in Vista 64....the only thing you need to remember is to hit F8 during boot up to go into Windows boot options, and boot with driver signing disabled, then VMWare Server runs fine. I would also assume they will get their VM drivers signed somewhere in the future, so who knows.

As for Affinity Changer, I would assume this would work fine under Vista 64. If it does work, then leave the clients at 100% and let affinity changer do the work.

 

[APOLLO]

To install 2 instances of the windows SMP client can you just copy the original FAH folder to a new location with a new name and configure it as machine (n+1). Would you need to set the cpu usage to 50% for each client or just leave it at 100%. I suppose it would also need the affinity changer....anybody try this with 64bit vista? I know that's a lot of questions but we can't be wasting cpu cycles when there is folding to do.

You can copy the F@H folder but do not copy the 'work' subfolder. Do not copy the queue.dat file either, and the client.cfg file needs to be modified. In notepad, change the value of 'machineid' to 2. This is the procedure I undergo whenever I need to configure additional clients in the same OS. Others might offer slightly different recommendations, but this has worked for me since last summer.

If you do configure two clients, can you post before and after PPD values so we can have a rough idea what the difference is? TIA

 

[HighYield]

Thanks for the tips configuring both clients for Vista. I'll give it a try as soon as my current WU is done.
Right now my Q6600 is at 2.88 GHz but Fahmon says it is only good for about 2600-2700 ppd with just one SMP client....does this seem low?

 

[APOLLO]

Thanks for the tips configuring both clients for Vista. I'll give it a try as soon as my current WU is done.
Right now my Q6600 is at 2.88 GHz but Fahmon says it is only good for about 2600-2700 ppd with just one SMP client....does this seem low?

A little bit, but I wouldn't know for sure because I'm running dual quads and the PPD is different for two. Also, you're running Vista which might affect the production. BTW, my configuration tip was for XP and I'm not certain if it will work for Vista. It wouldn't hurt to try though. If it works, your PPD should be over 3000 with two clients. <crossed fingers>

 

[Tigerbiten]

Running two clients in plain Windoze works, it just not as efficient as running two VM as your not able to lock each client to its own pair of cores.

Just set up two folders useing Machine ID's 1 & 2.
Leave CPU useage at 100% for both clients.
Affinity changer would probably help.
Your PpDpGhz will probably up to around 300-320.

VM's on Vista are possible.
You've just got the turn off "Only Use Signed Drivers" via F8 when it posts.

Luck .................

 

[EvilAlchemist]

Thanks for the tips configuring both clients for Vista. I'll give it a try as soon as my current WU is done.
Right now my Q6600 is at 2.88 GHz but Fahmon says it is only good for about 2600-2700 ppd with just one SMP client....does this seem low?

Does not seem that far off ....

My Quad's are running 1 one smp client - Linux 64 Folding CD 3.0Ghz - 3000 PPD

So you are not far off.

 

[Xilikon]

Just to make everyone drool, I overclocked my Q6600 to 3.7 GHz (was able to get higher but the crappy Enzotech ramsinks got hot on the mosfets without good airflow, need to look at adding mosfets waterblocks). Right now, the PPD of this box is a hair under 5000 (~2400 ppd per VM instance + ~200 ppd for the windows console client

 

[Tigerbiten]

At the moment I've just started to test my new box.
Q6600, G33 MoBo, 4 Gb memory, 380 watt PSU
Look like its Memtest stable at 3.2 Ghz.
But I may not be able to finish building it till next week.
If its stable at this speed with Windoze then a nice +4,000 PpD box.

Luck ...........

 

[Crazy Larry]

Just an FYI - the Affinity Changer does work with Vista 32-bit - dropped the time it takes to complete a WU on a T7500 laptop from approx 42 hours to 37 hours

 

[aldamon]

I am leaning towards wild claim at this point.

Dual-SMP FTW.

 

[mwarps]

Just to make everyone drool, I overclocked my Q6600 to 3.7 GHz (was able to get higher but the crappy Enzotech ramsinks got hot on the mosfets without good airflow, need to look at adding mosfets waterblocks). Right now, the PPD of this box is a hair under 5000 (~2400 ppd per VM instance + ~200 ppd for the windows console client

The first week of march will be Q6600 torture time for my watercooling rig. I plan on switching CPUs in my sig rigs, and determining just how much fire I can dole out with that bad boy. nothing like a little competition to get things lively

 

[frizzybangs]

possible

 

[MixManSC]

Hmmm..... so I could use that affinity changer and run 4 SMP clients on this box instead of 2 and get even more PPD? I might finally ditch my twin.

 

[APOLLO]

Hmmm..... so I could use that affinity changer and run 4 SMP clients on this box instead of 2 and get even more PPD? I might finally ditch my twin.

You mean on a dual Xeon? I already tried the affinity changer on a dual quad and it didn't do squat. I configured everything from 2 to 5 clients and saw no difference with or without it. I think it's meant for C2D and C2Q processors only, unfortunately.

 

[MixManSC]

Yeah - dual quad core Xeons.... wonder why it will not work on these?

 

[APOLLO]

Yeah - dual quad core Xeons.... wonder why it will not work on these?

Don't know. I think I already asked this in another thread. It's probably not meant for more than four cores, I guess. Too bad. I'm looking for anything that can bridge the gap between Windows and Linux or Win+Linux VM. I'm loathe to installing more memory, but looks like I'll have to.

 

[HighYield]

You can copy the F@H folder but do not copy the 'work' subfolder. Do not copy the queue.dat file either, and the client.cfg file needs to be modified. In notepad, change the value of 'machineid' to 2. This is the procedure I undergo whenever I need to configure additional clients in the same OS. Others might offer slightly different recommendations, but this has worked for me since last summer.

If you do configure two clients, can you post before and after PPD values so we can have a rough idea what the difference is? TIA

I was able to get two windows SMP consoles running in 64 bit Vista along with affinity changer (No VMs used). It was amazing. I was running the 2653 WU and it took about a hair under 10 min per percent. Running two FAH consoles at the same time, the time per percent only increased to a little over 15 min per frame. 2X the points at only 50% more time. I am still trying to figure out how that is possible but it sure was nice. I was able to get 2 SMP clients submitted today. It then downloaded 2 of those new 3064 WUs that require more time and provide lower points.
It got about 1/2 way through the new WUs today and then I ctrl-C the console to turn it off and at that same moment the other folding console shuts down due to an IO error and it deleted the WU. I shut down the still working WU and rebooted. The other console that didn't have the IO error before was missing its WU
I uninstalled affinity changer and loaded the FAH consoles back up and was able to shut them down with out losing anymore work. But the time per percent is back up to 20 min....so there isn't much point to running 2 SMP consoles in Vista without affinity changer (or using VMs)
Seems like I am not the only one that had trouble when turning off the consoles when using afinity changer and vista....
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44977

 

[Kendrak]

Turn off folding consoles?

 

[APOLLO]

I was able to get two windows SMP consoles running in 64 bit Vista along with affinity changer (No VMs used). It was amazing. I was running the 2653 WU and it took about a hair under 10 min per percent. Running two FAH consoles at the same time, the time per percent only increased to a little over 15 min per frame. 2X the points at only 50% more time. I am still trying to figure out how that is possible but it sure was nice. I was able to get 2 SMP clients submitted today. It then downloaded 2 of those new 3064 WUs that require more time and provide lower points.

Glad to see that you got a good boost out of this. There are also gains with multiple SMP clients in AMD systems with 4 total cores or more, but they are far more modest. Bottom line, multiple clients are advantages for several reasons. Ex. if one client has problems contacting a Stanford server, another one may still be processing a WU therefore keeping your system productive.

It got about 1/2 way through the new WUs today and then I ctrl-C the console to turn it off and at that same moment the other folding console shuts down due to an IO error and it deleted the WU. I shut down the still working WU and rebooted. The other console that didn't have the IO error before was missing its WU
I uninstalled affinity changer and loaded the FAH consoles back up and was able to shut them down with out losing anymore work. But the time per percent is back up to 20 min....so there isn't much point to running 2 SMP consoles in Vista without affinity changer (or using VMs)
Seems like I am not the only one that had trouble when turning off the consoles when using afinity changer and vista....
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44977

Turning off a client will sometimes cause problems forcing a second client to error out. That is the main disadvantage in running multiple SMP clients under the same OS. There is a solution that has worked for me every time so far. Disconnect all your LAN connections either through the OS or manually. This will promptly stop your clients from further processing their WUs. If you look at Task Manager you will see the CPU graphs drop. Wait until everything is completely down. Then you can safely close the clients and reconnect.

 

[HighYield]

Turn off folding consoles?

It's true. Sometimes you do have to turn off the console. I need to move my meager 2.88 GHz Q6600 OC up a notch so that I can fold even harder and catch up with you (or at least fall behind more slowly than I am currently. A new FSB speed does require a reboot.