Eyefinity / Surround - IPS vs TN

O

obliv

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
383
I have been searching and reading over the last few months attempting to gather enough information to make the right decision on moving to Eyefinity.

I am looking for a 24" or larger x 3 configuration in Portrait.

My Rig Specs are
I7 920 @4.1ghz
5970 OC'ed 800 / 1200
6 Gb OCZ
Current Monitor Samsung 245bw @ 1920 x 1200

I would probably be considered a hard core FPS gamer (COD, CS, DOD, L4D, BFBC, MOH, AVP) 90% of my game list is comprised of FPS games.

I have quite a few questions for anybody inclined to answer i would really appreciate any information you have to offer.

1. TN or IPS, Every IPS review i have read pretty much says they are the best monitor... unless your a hardcore FPS gamer. However i am worried about Viewing angles in regards to TN monitors. Also every IPS thread on this board people have as much bad to say as they do good, in regards to Tinting issues and such. My buddy has 3
P2210H's (TN) in portrait and i cant say that viewing angles are a problem, however they are much smaller panels than i am looking at. Also being an FPS gamer, i am worried about ghosting,

2. I am currently at 16:10 24", am i loosing real estate moving to a 16:9 24" and if so how much vertical real estate am i loosing. The only thing i do not like about my buddy's setup is how thin his monitors are in portrait.

3. Anybody have experience with the P2411H
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-9327
Its a new monitor TN 16:9 24" but its a fairly cheap LED with an adjustable stand and dell tends to have good panels.

4. Anybody have experience with 24" or larger TN's in Portrait Eyefinity. I would really love to hear your experience if you have.

Another consideration i have made is simply moving to a 30", however being an IPS i am again worried about ghosting.

Sorry to bombard you guys with questions i tried to answer them myself but i have found so much conflicting information Im just looking for some good first person experience.

Thanks in advance to anybody willing to answer a few of my questions.
 
I am not sure how your friend manages to use TN monitors in Portrait mode - I'd have thought that any TN panel would look horrible like that given the viewability problems along the vertical plane.

Generally, I don't think you want to attempt Portrait with Eyefinity at all, and the problem only gets worse the bigger you go.

Also, as an FPS gamer, I think you'd want to go with Landscape mode anyway. It doesn't really matter how much of the sky you can see; you want to get as wide a view as possible to see if people are flanking you.
 
I have played a few hours of BFBC2 and L4D2 on his setup. he has the same specs as me he just made the move to eyefinity quicker than i have.

I tried Landscape and yah, the super wide view was kind of nice, but i kept catching myself only paying attention to the middle monitor. Where as playing in Portrait Everything is used and it just seems like your getting much better use of the extra viewing area. Maybe i didnt notice bad viewing angles because of the small size of his panels. Do you think it would be much more exaggerated using 24" plus panels.
 
You can Google around, but I'm pretty sure that it would look bad. I mean, that's half the reason that people buy IPS panels - to use in Portrait.

As for Landscape, you need to spend a couple hours getting acclimated to it. You're not actually supposed to be looking at the side monitors; you look at the center monitor and the stuff on the side monitors falls into your peripheral vision. It's similar to real life: you don't "look" out of the corner of your eye, but you nonetheless notice movement that occurs in that area. I'd often catch enemy players like that and get the drop on them.
 
Well I believe you are right about the viewing angles, I guess i have never really read a good review of several TN monitors in portrait and theres probably a good reason for that.

So that essentially leaves me with IPS in Portrait or Landscape / TN in Landscape / or 1 30".

What about my Latency concerns on IPS Panels, are they suitable for near 100% FPS Gaming?
 
I have dual 24" TN panels in landscape and looking for a third here as well to complete the eyefinity set up. With the side panels angled at you there really isn't much of a viewing angle problem that I can tell, or enough of one for me to tell you to go IPS all the way. The only problem I have with my TN panels is if I want to extend my main monitor out from the wall to watch it on my bed about 6-7' away, the color change is much more evident. Other than that, if you mostly game and don't do much in terms of color specific editing, there isn't a reason not to stick with TN. Make sure you take bezel width into consideration though, that was one thing I overlooked when I got the w2408h's.
 
Yah Bezel width is definitely a concern, that's why i have been looking at Dell's so much. Also i am very familiar with them from work. Half the time the bezels snap off when you don't want them to, so i could make them even smaller if needed :)

Your talking about Landscape, which i have never really been too concerned about, That seems the easiest and cheapest way to go. You don't have to worry about adjustable stand / Monitor arms. But i am too picky and want to have the option to go either way, which makes me consider IPS for Portrait, But i am concerned about Latency and tinting with them.
 
TN in portrait literally makes me dizzy. When you rotate the panel the poor vertical viewing angles become the horizontal ones and each of your eyes sees a different color which results in a weird fake 3D effect. My old Motorola V3i phone had a screen oriented like that and I hated it.

IPS response time could be a concern for a hardcore gamer so you'd probably have to try one of those in person but I wouldn't worry too much about tinting. It's not that there isn't a problem with tinting on certain panels, there is, but remember that the expectations of people who buy those screens are far higher so you are likely to see more complaints. TN panels have problems of their own as well, some unavoidable and some far worse than minor tinting issues that an IPS panel might have.
 
TN for portrait is a no-go. Get IPS. To those that think landscape surround is better, give portrait a serious try. I run 3x 30" in portrait mode and find it much better than landscape for immersion. 4800x2560 for the win!
 
Thanks for the Info guys i really appreciate it. Those pictures really show the difference. I believe those are the same monitors my friend has, guess i never really noticed the color drop off because i have never had IPS to compare it to.

It seems like the HP ZR24w isn't quite as notorious as the dell U2410 when it comes to tinting issues. Also its a bit easier on the wallet. You guys think i would be safe, latency wise, going with three ZR24w's in portrait?

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Vega, your setup is what convinced me to go with 3 monitors over one 30", I was worried about some of the Sim games i play not working like Blackshark but when i saw that screen of Blackshark.... i was hooked. :)
 
I think latency isn't a real big deal. Some people make a lot of noise about it, I find it to be fine. Too much could be a problem but 2 frames or so really seems to be below the limit of human perception. I game on a 2 frame (33ms) lag IPS panel and love it.

As for TN only two ways I'd ever go with it:

1) If price is extremely important. I mean you cannot beat TN price wise. So if low cost is a must, then the quality is ok.

2) For 120Hz. There is something to be said for the more fluid motion that can offer. If that is a must then TN is the only option.

However otherwise I recommend all IPS all the time. It really is nice to have a display with good colour that looks nice and uniform. I have a TN at work and while I don't hate it, it is annoying that it gets too dark if I slouch, or that the sides look at little darker than the middle (unless you move over to look at them straight) and so on. Not a deal breaker, but I love my NEC at home.

For wider angles this only gets more problematic. With something like eyefinity, you are looking pretty far out, and the TN gamma shift is going to be pretty noticeable.

Personally I'd much rather have a single, larger, high quality IPS monitor than 3 lower end TN monitors.
 
obliv said:
Thanks for the Info guys i really appreciate it. Those pictures really show the difference. I believe those are the same monitors my friend has, guess i never really noticed the color drop off because i have never had IPS to compare it to.

It seems like the HP ZR24w isn't quite as notorious as the dell U2410 when it comes to tinting issues. Also its a bit easier on the wallet. You guys think i would be safe, latency wise, going with three ZR24w's in portrait?

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Vega, your setup is what convinced me to go with 3 monitors over one 30", I was worried about some of the Sim games i play not working like Blackshark but when i saw that screen of Blackshark.... i was hooked. :)
Click to expand...

3x ZR24w's in portrait would be nice. The total of ~7 Million pixels will be easier to handle. One thing I relegated myself too though with 12.3 mega pixels is I have to always have 2-3 of the fastest graphics cards every upgrade lol.

Since you are a Blackshark fan have you tried A-10C? Man, it's another title that is absolutely stunning in 3x portrait.

PS it's good to go with 16:10 screens for surround instead of 16:9. Notice how super skinny those 16:9's linked above are in portrait.
 
It's hard for me to get behind 3xPortrait. The bezels are situated too far inside your main field of view instead of your peripheral, at least for my tastes.

Still, it's hard to see how you can go wrong with the ZR24s. I just got one ZR22 in portrait right now, and after some tweaking, I absolutely love it. So crisp and clear.
 
The problem with landscape is the width/height ratio get's way out of whack. With both eyes open you can see approximately 200 degrees wide by 130 degrees tall. This is much closer to a 2:1 ratio. A 16:9 x3 in landscape produces almost a 6:1 ratio. Ton's of horizontal space but seriously small vertical space. That's like looking through a little "slit' in the blinds.

The detail you get out of your image with a nice vertical resolution such as 3x in portrait mode can't be understated. I feel way more "immersed" in a flight sim or MMORPG with 3x portrait mode versus 3x landscape. More pixels are used for detail in portrait in your viewable area unlike landscape in which tons of pixels off on the sides are used just by your blurry peripheral vision. Just as an example on my setup in landscape I really didn't care much about what was outside the second half of each of the side monitors. That was some 4 mega-pixels wasted.
 
That's a good point. I agree that it's extreme (and that's also why PLP would honestly be the best of both worlds, even though it'll never happen). For FPS, however, the 3xL is still probably the best bet, because the horizontal plane is just so much more important.
 
I could not play FPS at all with 3x 30" in landscape nor portrait. Everything was so ridiculously large I had to turn my head and eyes constantly. It was too stressful. ;) I stick to a 1920x1080 120Hz for FPS and the big boys for everything else.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys i really appreciate it.

This is why i can never make a decision though :(

Vega you had convinced at blackshark, but then you go and tell me you don't use your amazing setup for FPS... :eek:

I am 80 - 90 % an FPS gamer and the rest flight simmer with Blackshark / LOMAC / IL-2.

Dont get me wrong, im not the type that still uses a CRT for the response time and i have never really even thought about 120hz LCD's. I just cant stand noticeable ghosting.

My First LCD was an 8ms HYUNDAI L90D+, and i loved it. No noticeable ghosting.
Current LCD is Samsung 245bw with no noticeable ghosting.

Vega, I have not had the chance to try A-10 yet, but it looks awesome.

So you guys have helped me decide 100 % if im going eyefinity it will be with IPS Panels. Is there anyone that uses IPS panels for heavy FPS Gaming though?
 
The thing with Vega, though, is that he is using 30" panels. That means that his Landscape experience is much worse than someone using 24" and it also means that his Portrait experience is better (the bezels are further away from his main field of vision because the monitor itself is bigger).

The only IPS panel that I've heard is very close to TN response times is the 30" HRZ30W.
 
I had TN panels in landscape, they were good, switched to portrait, oh the horror!!!
Bought IPS panels instead for portrait mode. Best decision I made. It was like a was playing on a 50" PC monitor.
Landscape mode is best for driving games and fps too. The bezels could block you from seeing enemies in fps multiplayer games, it seems not to bother others though.
 
obliv said:
Thanks for the feedback guys i really appreciate it.

This is why i can never make a decision though :(

Vega you had convinced at blackshark, but then you go and tell me you don't use your amazing setup for FPS... :eek:

I am 80 - 90 % an FPS gamer and the rest flight simmer with Blackshark / LOMAC / IL-2.

Dont get me wrong, im not the type that still uses a CRT for the response time and i have never really even thought about 120hz LCD's. I just cant stand noticeable ghosting.

My First LCD was an 8ms HYUNDAI L90D+, and i loved it. No noticeable ghosting.
Current LCD is Samsung 245bw with no noticeable ghosting.

Vega, I have not had the chance to try A-10 yet, but it looks awesome.

So you guys have helped me decide 100 % if im going eyefinity it will be with IPS Panels. Is there anyone that uses IPS panels for heavy FPS Gaming though?
Click to expand...

The ZR30w's only have ~10ms input lag and very low ghosting so they are just fine for FPS games. The reason I don't FPS on them like I said is because the image is just so large on 3x 30" that it is hard to see everything you need to see at once.
 
Matrices said:
The thing with Vega, though, is that he is using 30" panels. That means that his Landscape experience is much worse than someone using 24" and it also means that his Portrait experience is better (the bezels are further away from his main field of vision because the monitor itself is bigger).

The only IPS panel that I've heard is very close to TN response times is the 30" HRZ30W.
Click to expand...

Good way of putting it. 3x 30" portrait the middle screen is large enough that the bezel's (which I've removed to minimize the gap) aren't as distracting. But 16:10 I feel is suited well for portrait. This also applies to something like 3x ZR24w's.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Samsung 245bw is not a particulary fast monitor even for a TN so there is probably a good chance the OP would be happy with an IPS too. From my experience, you will rarely see "ghosting" on modern IPS screens. It's *VA panels that still have trouble with transitions of darker tones. IPS will be more blurry than a fast TN but you're unlikely to see actual ghosting.
 
Well, i just read a review on my Samsung 245bw, and they showed a nice little feature that i was not aware of. There is a screw that blocks the monitor from moving into portrait. I am going to remove that screw and that will help me get an idea of what 3 x 24 will look like and also allow me to see first hand how bad TN are in portrait.

I also went back and re-read some reviews on the HP ZR24w and the Response time didn't seem all that bad when comparing it to the review of my Samsung.

Looking like 3 HP ZR24w's are in my future.

Sound like a good decision to you guys? Thanks for the help!
 
obliv said:
.....

I am 80 - 90 % an FPS gamer and the rest flight simmer with Blackshark / LOMAC / IL-2.

Dont get me wrong, im not the type that still uses a CRT for the response time and i have never really even thought about 120hz LCD's. I just cant stand noticeable ghosting.

My First LCD was an 8ms HYUNDAI L90D+, and i loved it. No noticeable ghosting.
Current LCD is Samsung 245bw with no noticeable ghosting.

Vega, I have not had the chance to try A-10 yet, but it looks awesome.

So you guys have helped me decide 100 % if im going eyefinity it will be with IPS Panels. Is there anyone that uses IPS panels for heavy FPS Gaming though?
Click to expand...


Duh. :p
You can buy almost any display out there and won't be bothered by ghosting.
I think it's silly of you to worry about this, but good that you tell what screens you have, most people don't. They just need this super fast gaming screen since they're so sensitive, you think they're on a CRT still but no, they're holding on to some five year old generic crap which they actually are satisfied with.

That Hyundai L90D+ is five, actually almost six years old, first reviews date back to february 2005. Things have progressed since then, at least when it comes to contrast ratios and speed. Viewing angles are a different thing, the TNs have progressed in that area but IPS and PVA panels are on the same level or actually worse in some models!

DigitalVersus had reviewed the Samsung 245B, which is the same model basicly, at least they share panels.
Model Response Time Panel
Samsung SM245B 5ms 24"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM240CT01)
Samsung SM245BW 5ms 24"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM240CT01)

Where is the link now..
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=52&mo1=103&p1=1026&ma2=36&mo2=245&p2=2334&ph=1
The monitor I chose to compare to is an IPS model released in early 2006 so almost five year old now. :)
The 245B/BW seems to have been released mid 2007.
 
Thanks Jonte, Didn't know that comparison was out there.

I guess i just never really understood those tests. I read a monitor review and see the little INeed More Socks car and always thought, WOW holy ghosting. But then again the reviews i read a couple years ago for my current monitors were not quite as in depth as the ones out now.
 
TN is terrible. Very few people can tell the difference in reponse between a TN and a good IPS, and I mean *very* few. Everyone can see the difference in image quality. It is *so* very worth it for the picture quality of IPS, just get a fast one. Now if you are concerned about price in eyefinity, that's totally legit (x3 = ouch).
 
If you want to try Eyefinity with 3 IPS monitors but are worried about the price, now would be a good time to buy. The Dell U2211H can currently be had for $188 after coupons.
 
Yah just saw that thread, Its soooo tempting but i know in the end i will be disappointed i didn't go with 24's....... but whew that price is hard to pass up....
 
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