Extreme TEC chiller experiment with Antec

Discussion in 'Extreme Cooling Solutions' started by Fruergaard, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    Hello, and welcome to this experiment to get as cool temps in my rig to get the highest overclocks as possible :D

    First of all, I would like to give a big thanks to Antec for making this TEC chiller experiment possible :)

    [​IMG]

    And Monsoon for some fittings:
    [​IMG]

    As said, the point of this TEC experiment is to cool down the water temperature in my rig to get some nice overclocks. The rig is not final yet, but it's coming along really nice and you can se more here; http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1745305

    But here a sneak peak;
    [​IMG]

    But back to the chiller;
    As the title say this is a TEC chiller. In short a TEC/Peltier can transport heat from one side to the other, and by that make one of the side cold, but the other warm. To know more look here;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
    The TEC does this just by using electricity which is why a TEC is a genius invention.
    However TEC's are not that efficient just yet, which is why they are not that common use in things like a fridge (but they will perhaps become in a few years).

    But their inefficiency isn't that big a problem for this experiment since we just bump up the numbers of TECs and power for them should be no problem (except if the electric system in my apartment can't handle that amount of Watt's).

    So the idea (for a TEC chiller in general) is to block the TECs in between two water blocks. The "cold-side" water block will be incorporated in the rigs loop (no radiator in this loop when the chiller is in work) so that the water will get cooled down and the hardware should get some low temperatures and then high overclocks :)

    The "hot-side" of the "TEC sandwich" should of course be cooled (or it will most likely melt). But the lower the temperature of the "hot-side" the lower the temperature of the "cold-side" we can get. And since the experiment is to get as low temperature as possible, the cooling for the hot-side is also in the extreme category (more on this later :D)

    TEC's
    Right now it looks to be these TECs;
    http://customthermoelectric.com/tecs/pdf/12711-5M31-24CZ_spec_sht.pdf
    How many is still a bit uncertain, but it will be at least 12 of them (perhaps 16).
    But if you have any other ideas for some better TECs, please speak up.
    They will be run with 12V, so have this in mind ;)

    Water blocks
    The water blocks for the "TEC sandwich's" will be custom made in copper and plexi top.
    The internal design for the water block is not still decided, but so far I'm looking toward something like this (Design from Skyrip at Overclock.net);
    [​IMG]
    But perhaps with smaller and more of the squares to create some turbulence and high surface area that should make the blocks efficient to transfer heat to the water ;-)
    But other designs are more then welcome as well :)

    So there you have my idea for an extreme TEC chiller.
    I don't know if I will make subzero temps when bench with just CPU or one GPU or the whole system, but the hardware will be isolated to cope with the possible condensation ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  2. Riccochet

    Riccochet Off Topic Award

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  3. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    Last weak a heavy package came (guess from who :D):
    [​IMG]

    And within that a few more packages;
    [​IMG]


    Can you guess what is inside those packages?

    If you thought fans, then you were right :)
    [​IMG]

    And lots of them :D (56 of them to be precise)
    [​IMG]

    Some nice fans with Double ball-bearing and able to move a good amount of air with 2000 rpm. Properly a bit noisy, but that really doesn't matter for me, they just need to move a lot of air. But if silence is needed they can always be slowed down to 1200 rpm.

    But for this project I'm also in need of quiet a lot of thermal compound, and it have to operate at both high and low temperature along having good thermal conductivity. Which Antec also have supplied :D
    [​IMG]

    Some nice Formula 7 with diamond particles (not sure if they really do the trick to getting lower temps, but it seems like a good thermal compound):
    [​IMG]

    But there is plenty of it, which is needed for all the TEC's and the SG09 build's hardware :)

    Antec did also through in a bit extra for my three U2711 screens (could use some cleaning after some 2 years of use :rolleyes:)
    [​IMG]

    So that's it for now. Next step would be to get the water cooling for the "hot-side" loop home (guess what all those fans are for :D), and to decided which and how many TEC's I should get and order them (so the water block also can begin to take shape/design them).
     
  4. lilfiend

    lilfiend [H]ardness Supreme

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    dear god, so many fans!
     
  5. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    So I have come a bit further in with this project :D

    The following wasn't meant for this chiller, but for my SG09 build that was planned long ago.
    That's also why they have the colors that they got (not Photoshop, but spray painted).
    [​IMG]

    And yes, that is a Phobya External Radiator "Bench edition" stand, along with a D5 pump in a EKWB X-RES 140mm housing that have been spray painted white.
    The stand only comes in black, and I ran out of paint on a Saturday (this summer), and haven't come much further since.
    BUT it will get painted just as white as all the rest.
    Then pump will also get a slap of paint. Not sure if I should go green on it or white like the rest.

    On the other side we got the 9x120mm radiator that is 45mm thick, along the 120mm fans from Antec :D
    [​IMG]

    I think that the plexi fans are looking really well with the rest, and I will look much better when the radiator stand will get all white.

    Another package came this Friday including some of the best looking fittings right now (I do think that acrylic tubing and fittings looks nice, but for me Monsoon fittings and their colors are just the right thing :D )
    So thanks to Monsoon for sponsoring some fittings for this chiller project :)
    [​IMG]

    If we take a closer look at the pump/reservoir, you can see that it's not the normal water that is running round in the little loop.
    [​IMG]
    I have always like the way that some colorful crystals was floating around in a liquid up in chemistry lap.
    But most of those crystals was either expensive or very toxic.
    So when I saw that Mayhems had made a similar product for watercooling, I new I had to have it.
    The liquid is Mayhems Green Aurora.
    (pump settings was "1" = the lowest)

    But the Aurora is not ideally for this chiller experiment, so when that time comes, I will have found something more suitable.
    The Aurora was for the looks in the SG09 build :rolleyes:

    Doesn't those beautiful Monsoon fittings deserve a picture in focus?, I do believe so :D
    [​IMG]

    Now before we end this update, soe of you may think; "that painting will get you higher temps".
    And yes, that is correct, BUT again this was intended for the SG09 build, which really doesn't require a radiator like that, but I really like silence (or my girl does), so I got the radiator.

    As for the chiller, one of these is clearly not enough for the amount of heat I will put into that loop.
    But that's also why there is coming two more of these in (just 60mm thick) and all three of them will have push pull (that's way the 56 fans :D )
    I do think that should do the trick :)

    Just as a closing picture (don't stare to long at it), the structure of the radiator stand and radiator in background:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller 2[H]4U

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    It's a cool idea and all, but with the amount of money you will be spending on PSU's (unless you get a few free from a "sponsor") and power you would have been better off to build a custom SS Phase Change unit IMO..I still am subbed just to see how this turns out...
     
  7. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    Don't you worry about the cost or power for these TECs

    Let me handle that, so you can sit back and enjoy the show :D
     
  8. Arcygenical

    Arcygenical Will Watercool for Crack

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    TECs are most efficient and work their best at around 16v. Perhaps find 24v tecs capable of around 300w each, and run them at 16v.

    Make sure there's good separation between the waterblocks. AKA the TECs won't cover 100% of the surface area of the block, so coat the rest of the block with epoxy or the like. You don't want radiant heat crossing over from the hot to the cold side of the plate.
     
  9. ToddW2

    ToddW2 2[H]4U

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    Sitting back... where's the show :confused:
     
  10. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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  11. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    Hi all

    Now with Christmas over and exams, I'm once again back to hopefully finish this build and the TEC cooler.
    Also Happy New Year :)

    This update isn't a big one, but I am in need of your help :)
    I'm not at big water flow engineer, so if you got any ideas for at better water block for the TECs, please let me know :p

    Currently I got this designed;
    [​IMG]


    This will be in copper and it is 6mm high (with the squares 4mm(height)x2mmx2mm) and will get a acrylic top (where the inlet and oult will be and at each end).
    Holes in the sides are for screws and springs to press the two blocks around the TEC tight together :)

    There will then be one at each side of the TECs.

    The question is if this block is good enough for the amount of heat they need to take up and give to the water (4 or 5 TECs + some of the hardware load = approx. 1000w)?

    Also Skyrip have suggested that I could use direct cooling of the TEC's instead (where the water runs directly over the TECs).
    Something like that he have done here;
    http://forum.highflow.nl/f34/super-cool-14427/index2.html

    It would make it a lot cheaper and easier to make.
    But I'm in doubt as to how well it would work, due to there is limited restriction (just a plain surface).

    So if you got any suggesting for the water blocks please let me know ;)
     
  12. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    Sorry, my time have been limited :(

    But should take up speed now :D
     
  13. jon666

    jon666 Limp Gawd

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    This sounds like overkill. Can't wait to see it completed.
     
  14. Fenris_Ulf

    Fenris_Ulf [H]ard|Gawd

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    Subbed for the gloriously pointless overkill. As someone who did this (albeit at a smaller scale) 15 years ago, I'll give my opinion. The heat exchangers are fine. Direct impingement on the peltiers is inadvisable - you will have more fittings, have to worry about expansion/contraction and sealing, and generally have more of a PITA. Insulate between the heat exchangers. Use a low temperature capable glycol/water mix on the cold side. You can't have too much pump for this application. Insulate all the cold lines. Sit back and enjoy the 10% performance boost at the expense of 300% power usage.
     
  15. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    So that last of the watercooling gear have arrived :D
    I would like to thanks aquatuning.de for there sponsorship of these parts along the parts for the SG09 build :D
    But back to the good stuff;
    As I said, I do no believe that radiator cooling will be my bottleneck, and here's why:
    [​IMG]

    One big, fat 9x120mm radiator (60mm thick) ;)
    [​IMG]

    And when you place that in a Phobya radiator stand along 18 Antec fans it looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    That is a heavy setup, and there is one more of those along the white/green radiator (45mm) posted above :D

    And they cool really well.
    Right now the green/white radiator + D5 pump is cooling a mining rig with a HD 7990 + 2x HD 7970 down to the cores are at only 44 degrees and water around 37 degrees (and that is a 24/7 setup) :D
    And that is with only four 180mm fans at 700 rpm.
    So the three of these radiators with push pull configuration with the 2000 rpm should be more than enough for this chiller :p

    I also got some extra stuff, like an extra D5 pump to help in the cold loop and four temperature sensors (green LCD of course) and a lot of screws for the fans:
    [​IMG]


    Some of the Monsoon fittings also arrived, and quite a lot of them;
    [​IMG]

    And when taken out and assembled it looks like this;
    [​IMG]

    Beautiful :D

    But this is not all of them, actually these are just around half of what I need for this chiller and SG09 build (around 30 pcs. both fittings and angle adaptors).
    Some of the are in the mining rig, others are not yet bought due to uncertainties of how many TEC waterblocks that will be made (how many fittings is needed).

    And once again, thanks to Monsoon for sponsoring some of their fine fittings, and I must say you are right;
    [​IMG]

    "Bling is good" :D

    As for the TEC waterblocks I will go with the long thin lines, but have had time yet to design/draw them.
    But should happen soon and hopefully I will find some cheap (but good) copper at that time.
    (if you got a link to a seller in EU (that ships to Denmark) please post it :D)

    I don't have that much more, except that I got a new pump for the SG09 (other one burst into flames) and I swapped out the GTX 670 4gb cards for a new;
    [​IMG]

    A nice Gigabyte GTX 780 TI thanks to my friend at Coolgamers.dk :D
    [​IMG]

    It came as rev 1.0, so thought It was the reference PCB design, but luckily it was the custom more powerfull design :D
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I tried the card, and I must say it performs well and is really silent. Even in game after many hours of play, I cant hear it even with the case open (bot only at stock clocks for now and 1.5 meters away from case).
    So that will be the card that will get chilled :D
    (maybe another one will come along as well if my wallet is up for it).

    And EKWB is making a full cover waterblock for it (yea), bot it will first get released in late February :-/
    But when under the chiller it will be with a core block only (either custom one or a EKWB block), and with heatsinks on Vram and VRM.

    So that's it for this time, any questions is welcome, and link to a good but cheap copper retailer is appreciated :D
     
  16. AudiTuner

    AudiTuner Limp Gawd

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    Very impressive setup! My hat is off to you, sir. :p
     
  17. jackofalltrades

    jackofalltrades 2[H]4U

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  18. RedWagnum

    RedWagnum Gawd

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    It's been a few months... Any progress on your TEC build?
     
  19. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Everyone always says TECs are useless, so I'm looking foreword to see how this pans out. If this works out well, I'll be waiting for others to follow suit.
     
  20. David-Duc

    David-Duc [H]ard|Gawd

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    Most people says TECs are useless because TECs only act as a heat pump and most of them when working individually don't have the capacity (and not to mention the poor efficiency) to match the TDP of heavily OCed processors. I have faith in Fruergaard's project since multiple peltiers is a completely different story there, as long as he can keep the TECs/peltiers' capacity higher than the thermal energy dissipated by the processor, temperature will be great.
     
  21. geok1ng

    geok1ng [H]ard|Gawd

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    i am not a TEC expert but C.O.P is a better graph to choose a TEC because you get to see the efficiency and choose at what voltage and temp gap do the TECs work better. Knowing at what voltage would you get more efficiency also helps choosing how will you connects them, and also plan PSUs, cooling and expected temps.

    [​IMG]
    Standard Performance Graph COP = f(V) of ΔT ranged from 40 to 60/70 ºC
    Remark: The coefficient of performance (COP) is the cooling power Qc/Input power (V × I).

    keep in mind that the C.O.P and optimal voltage changes with temp range. the same TEC behaves completely different at 0-30ºC, check this site

    As a rule of thumb, TECs are very efficient operating at 1/7 to 1/8 of their max voltage and dealing with 5-10ºC gaps between cold and hot side.

    At such conditions TECs can move 5 watts of heat for each watt of electricity spent= COPs of 5+. On the other hand, at max voltages TECs usually move 1 watt or less of heat for each 2 watts of electricity, COPs below 0.5.

    From the graphs one can see that with post RAD temps of 30ºC, if you want sub-zero temps on your processor, be ready to face delta Ts of 35ºC and COPs of 0.2:eek: In other words: prepare to dissipate 5 times the processor TDP on the hot side of the TECs.

    Your TEC does not have a COP graph, but a quick math shows:

    at 12V they consume 18 amps, thats 216w. Those same 18 amps move 100w of heat across a 30ºC delta temp across cold and hot side, for a COP of 0.46. Not bad, but compare that with 3V x 4A=12w at 10ºC delta: 37w, for a COP of 3.:cool: You can put 4 of them in series to meet those 3V, and 4 of these would move 148w consuming only 48w.

    The bottom line is TECs do not work well for "extreme cooling" of CPUs in single or dual loop builds, and cascading more loops would lose performance because such loops would be below ambient temps.

    Go back to the drawing board and select the most powerful TEC you can find with decent COP. On your supplier, i like these.

    Imax (Amps) 17.0
    Qmax (Watts)331.0
    Vmax (Volts)31.5

    or these
    Imax (Amps)6.0
    Qmax (Watts)127.7
    Vmax (Volts)34.4

    The last one is around 10% more efficient, but has 59mm side, which means more copper for your custom chiller;), on the other hand 4 of those fit a 120mm fan frame, so modding ideas came up;)
     
  22. geok1ng

    geok1ng [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you don't mind using 62mm TECs, this one is "cheaper" and can even deal with 20ºC gaps at 6 and 12V.
    Imax 3A
    Qmax 63w
    Vmax 34.5V

    This is one of the few TECs that can work alone as a post-rad water chiller at 12V and still keep COP above 1 at delta Ts above 30ºC. A larger surface on the hot side also helps with cooling. Being low power also menas that you can use it without worrying about controlling voltage to avoid freezing the loop at idle.

    62mm is the preferred TEC size for CPU cooling, and there are even custom water blocks to fit it, which, if you pardon my candure, is a much more smart way to TEC cool a CPU.

    The best guide i found on TECs. Be sure to download the TEC calculator.
    The most cool feature on that guide is the use of PWM controler modules to avoid condensation.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  23. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    So, long time no see.
    I'm sorry for this interruption in this build log/experiment but my studies and personal situation needed some attention.
    And sadly I haven't been able to locate anyone with in Denmark that could and would help me making the waterblocks (had one for a few months until he backed out...) :mad:

    But the good news is that I have found a solution that I think/hope will work out just as well. Did cost a little extra, but what the heck ;)
    So small package (though quite heavy) from aquatuning came this week:
    [​IMG]

    Which contains the rest of the stuff for cooling these TEC's.
    Some 6 meters of tubing, a reservoir and some fansplitters for the 54 fans :D
    [​IMG]

    As for the solution to cool the TEC's I went ahead and bought 20 Alphacool CPU waterblocks :rolleyes:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Some nice blocks, though I have seen better surfaces on other blocks out there. But I believe these will do just well when sandwiched around a TEC :D

    Since there is 20 waterblocks that means I would also need some fittings:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Some 50 pcs of 90 degrees fittings and 10 straight ones.

    Also with all these CPU blocks and the three big radiators I needed some more pump power so I bought two more D5 pumps (four in total now).
    [​IMG]

    The plan is to get some of the 550W TEC's that is 62*62mm in size (found one from UK that would sell 10 of those to me): http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEC-Thermoe...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    They are a little bigger than the cooling surface area of the CPU coolers, so I will also get some 6mm thick 70*70mm copper plates, so the whole area of the TEC is in contact with the cooling surface.

    I am open for suggestions if you believe there is a better TEC out there for this setup (will be running at 12V).

    That was all for this time, the TEC's and copper plates will be bought in the upcoming week ;)
    And then a Classified 980 or similar when they arrive :p
     
  24. dr/owned

    dr/owned Gawd

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    For OPs application its pretty pointless. I contemplated doing something similar until I concluded using an aquarium chiller(s) is massively more cost effective (not even cost effective...more effective period). It's a cool "I did this" project, but I don't see any financial or functional incentive to do it.

    And to rip of a quote from Ocean's 11: even if you get out of the casino lest we forget you're still in the middle of the f-ing desert. Sub-ambient water => condensation. And condensation control on a large scale (gpu's cpu mosfets etc) is a huge technical problem that can be worked out but again the costs just skyrocket. I've been down this thought-road and abandoned it.

    And lastly, even if you go sub-ambient, it won't really make much difference for overclocking. You have to go WAY sub zero before you actually increase the overclocking potential of a chip. You end up spending $5k to get pretty much the same result you'd get with a high end custom loop setup.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  25. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Any update on this? I want to see what you have in store with 5.5Kw of cooling power.
     
  26. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    Okay, so some good news (and a bit of bad news).
    The PSU's arrived a little time ago from Antec (thanks again :D ).
    Three lovely Platinum PSU, two 1300W and a 1000W:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Modular and OC link so two PSU's can run together :thumb:
    [​IMG]

    And enough power for the TEC's and stable power for the GFX when OC.
    [​IMG]


    So the TEC's also arrived. Bought from a German seller over eBay (we have some high tax here in DK, so it was affordable to get these compared to china or US).
    However they only had 6 pieces left of the 15Amp's TEC's (15 Volt) :(
    [​IMG]

    However the had four 4 of the 26amps TEC's :D
    Bit more expensive but lets see how well they perform.
    [​IMG]

    They are a little bit bigger than the 15 amps:
    [​IMG]

    And here on the CPU waterblock:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The 26 amps' corner is not covered by the block due to the screws hole in the copper plate. But I hope and think it will work out anyway :D

    Now the bad news is that I will first have time to play with all these things until the weekend.
    I did also buy four more of the 15 amps from china. So I will be doing some testing how different setups will cool (TEC and radiator setup).
    However they will first arrive in minimum 14 days.

    Perhaps just four of the 26 amps is enough for a GTX 980 :D
     
  27. Probleminfected

    Probleminfected [H]ard|Gawd

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    I remember in the old days using a tec and an alpha heatsink to overclock k6-3's haha.
     
  28. Fruergaard

    Fruergaard [H]Lite

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    So putting all of the TEC's together takes a little more time than expected.
    First apply a thin layer of Antec's Formula 7 Thermal paste to get the best transfer of heat :D
    [​IMG]

    And then make a sandwich of CPU coolers around it:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And then connecting them all:
    [​IMG]

    My fingers was quite sore after some 60 fittings :D
    But all done and installed (takes up most of the table):
    [​IMG]

    I decided to start with just the two thick radiator since the TEC wattage have been lowered a bit, and as I expected the pumps had a hard time pumping the water around with two radiators and 10 CPU block.
    To night I started out with installing the chilled water on a older GTS 250 card:
    [​IMG]

    A bit overkill I think, but it just a test card :D
    With a little overclock I believe the card is pulling out 130-150W. A little less than the stock GTX 980.
    However the TEC setup had no problem in cooling the card. With heaven bench running the temperature of the cold loop began going towards 0 degrees C.
    It took a few minutes since it had to cool the ~1.5 liter of water that is running around in the cold loop.
    The core temperature of the GTS 250 followed the temperature of the water nicely with around +5 degrees.
    I have no anti freeze in the system yet so the plan was to stop a 0.5 degrees. But right at 0.6 the core temp shot up to ~35. Some water properly froze in one of the CPU coolers and blocked the water from running around.
    [​IMG]

    The above shows how the core temp fell from ~36 to 6 degrees in 15 seconds when the water began flowing around again :D
    So I should properly get some anti freeze in the systems. Any ideas what to get?

    Also, how much does I need to insulate the GFX? Perhaps someone got a good guide?
    Since it does get some condensation:
    [​IMG]

    The hot loop was at 32 degrees when I stopped, and the room temperature was 22.
    So with a load of 250-300W I should be able to get the cold loop down to ~-10 degrees :D
     
  29. lilfiend

    lilfiend [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'd take a cue from the ln2/lhe enthusiasts and just load up on gummy eraser.

    I love seeing all those TECs sandwiched like that, looks so fun to play with :p
     
  30. geok1ng

    geok1ng [H]ard|Gawd

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    i am having trouble understanding how the water flow among the loops, would you mind posting a diagram of water flow?

    an infrared thermometer could help determine the T-gaps and plan for improved efficiency.
     
  31. Fenris_Ulf

    Fenris_Ulf [H]ard|Gawd

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    Your waterblocks/heat exchangers are all in series. Change to parallel, this will reduce the pressure drop and allow one to freeze without affecting the overall performance. Ideally, you should do this with one big heat exchanger. A single one would be easier to plumb, more compact, and even custom built would probably cost less than 20 CPU blocks.
     
  32. FnordMan

    FnordMan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Basically from what I understand there's two separate loops.
    The "inner" one gets chilled by the peltier coolers and thusly cools the processor.
    The "outer" one absorbs the heat from the peltier coolers and runs it out of the large looking radiator.

    hope that makes sense.
     
  33. dr/owned

    dr/owned Gawd

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    Parallel can be dangerous if one block gets clogged, because there's no way of knowing it. Plus you have to think about the tubing having flow resistance and the "edge" blocks wouldn't get as much circulation as the inner ones. It also would take up a lot of space to either use a ton of splitters or have a few manifolds. I agree though that driving pressure through 20 CPU blocks is more likely than not going to cause leaks because the blocks and fittings aren't meant to handle it. (been there)
     
  34. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I plan to do something like this in Q4 2016.

    I'm going to use cold plates though... http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?lang=en&site=us&keywords=cold+plate

    I realize OP doesn't live in the US, may have been hard to source a good cold plate.

    I still haven't decided if I plan to try to fit this all in a mid tower or have a seperate radiator tower. Hinges on if I want to do just CPU or CPU & GPU. I'm leaning towards regular water for the GPUS and icing over the CPU. I do a lot of CPU intensive tasks and this would be a fun project.

    I'd love to see some datapoints from this project!
     
  35. dr/owned

    dr/owned Gawd

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    I'll repeat what I said earlier: TECs aren't an efficient means of chilling water. You'll burn thousands of watts of power to get the same cooling performance an aquarium chiller will give you. Even saying you did get it working, no inexpensive liquids can handle more than -30C, and you'll have condensation all over your cpu socket and mobo. Even at -30C I don't think you'll gain any overclocking performance. You'll run into the same thing I run into where the chip runs out of overclocking headroom before my thermals do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  36. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'd be happy with -30C... and I'd insulate the mobo and CPU...

    Can you link a suggested chiller? I don't want to be a fool if there's something compareable. Noise is a large factor to me, and a couple bucks on power isn't necessarily. I do like simplicity, which an aquarium chiller could make more sense.

    I am curious what your system is!! "World's Craziest Watercooling Setup" I actually tried looking for it the other day out of curiousity.
     
  37. dr/owned

    dr/owned Gawd

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    http://www.performance-pcs.com/water-chillers

    I have the 500A and the 350A. You can't run these things with a small amount of liquid though (ie you can't plug them directly into a watercooling loop with a few liters of water). You also can't go under 40F or something. I set mine to 55F to avoid condensation. I previously went lower and condensation was a nightmare. When your desktop looks like a rainforest on the inside, bad things happen. There's exotic condensation protection you can do, but it'll kill the resale value of your mobo and it's pretty expensive/time consuming to apply.
     
  38. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, that's an excellent point about resale value. My biggest fear was the rain forest effect. 800W for $500, that's not a bad deal. The OP should have used a big chiller + TECs instead of a radiator. ;)

    Anyways, thanks for the link! It was cheaper than I had feared and a solid, straight forward way to take off 20-30 degrees.

    BTW I use a few 10 tonne chillers at work. Same with those - can't go under 42F or you can freeze it up. I think to go real low, we have a freezer that starts at -40F, it has to be multi-stage and gets expensive. Also something about you can't ever shut it off...
     
  39. dr/owned

    dr/owned Gawd

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    My setup is similar to what datacenters do. I chill 25 gallons of plain UV-treated water with a 5/8" ID setup and then have a few liters of watercooling coolant heat exchange with it and circulate into my desktop. Takes up a lot of space, requires a lot of pumps, hose, etc. But it's pretty much the ultimate setup for unmatched performance with no noise in the immediate vicinity of my home office. I've also contemplated adding some CoolShirt ports so I could cool my core body temperature with the chilled water and not need the AC in the summer...but I'm thinking it would be too cold and I'd be the one dumbass that gets hypothermia in July :)

    It would be an interesting experiment to use chilled water to cool TECs, but condensation would still be an issue and it's really hard to run lots of TECs on 120V circuits. OP being in Europe has sweet 240V to work with. It would probably be a better idea at that point to just use a phase change cooler where the evaporator coil sits right on the cpu package.
     
  40. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    pics of that would be awesome dr/owned