eVGA ACS³ Thermal Solution Thoughts

[FrgMstr]

My thought is that $50 is for a GOOD lifetime warranty or trade up program could certainly be worth it. However, I know how much $50 got me last time with an eVGA ACS solution....

 

[shaun]

...

 

[magoo]

We have a typical 7800GTX with 430MHz core for $480
We have the BFG 460MHz core with a lifetime warranty for $550.
We have the XFX with a 490MHz core for $550.
We have the eVGA with a 490MHz core and lifetime warranty for $600.
Seems that even if we ignore the fancy cooler the eVGA card has the highest clockspeed and the best warranty.

I looked this stuff up,too on Newegg. I think you have to compare apples to apples. I too am a bit miffed that I bought TWO BFGs at 599 because I was worried about supply and then within a week they are down to 559. That kinda sucks. BUT if you look at eVGA specifically..... Reference speed=549,Battlefield2=549(clocked to 450),another listing on newegg without the BF2=549(clocked to 450)and the super deluxe ASC at 599.
XFX sells their 490 clock at 549.
I dont think the fancy cooler is worth $50. But the overclock might as well as the warranty.

Im sorta pissed that all of a sudden we see STANDARD overclocks to 490 on alot of the models????What gives. I think I got a little bit fucked on two deals....the price went south and the speeds went north, I never even got kissed.
Thanks to Kyle and the [H]ard look at this fabulous new technology. Just remember to look closely at the eVGA site before you order cuz you could buy all kinds of clock speed models. Im still confused when I go to their site.

 

[kleptophobiac]

I remember when ACS first came out, and I couldn't help but feel it was useless marketing.

That said, I also feel that [H] has been hammering on eVGA more than is necessary. If people want to buy the card, they should feel free to do so. If they don't read reviews pointing out card temps aren't spectacular and it doesn't overclock better than anything else, and buy it anyway, that's their choice. If they don't read reviews, that's their choice too. As long as eVGA delivers a product that conforms to what they market (Video card with heatsink) then they've done their job.

I will never buy one of their cards, but I'm a cheap bastard anyway.

 

[jebo_4jc]

Essentially, we are not looking at a $120 increase to the ACS deal. We are looking at $120 increase from a website price to evga's retail price. If this thing sells for ~$570 online like I think it might, the overclock, warranty, and cooler seem to justify the higher price tag.

 

[FrgMstr]

Oouuuu hostility. I don't know what I did to deserve that bashing, but I now see the mood behind it. Apparently you forgot what it was like starting a new site.

This is the second time you've been aggressive at me like that, so thanks. I really appreciate it. You love your readers.

No hostility here. No bashing either. I don't even know you. If you can't take a little bit of ribbing, you will never make it on the Net with the big boys. Hell, if you are getting your feelings hurt in a public forum, I would very much suggest going AFK forever. I will keep my mouth closed about anything you have to say from now on in hopes that you don't get your feelings hurt. Please accept my apologies.

 

[Majin]

I agree with Kyle on this one 100%
That add on plate is nothing more than a cover; for 120 bucks extra its not worth it.

That heat sink is not going to get any kind of benifit from a cover.
It's foolish of evga to think that people are going to be pulled in by such a obivious money grab.

I am not impressed that they think this price cost is justified!

 

[FrgMstr]

That said, I also feel that [H] has been hammering on eVGA more than is necessary.

If you will please point out other video card companies that are making marketing claims they are not standing behind, we will point them out as well. (You might check out our last few Fatality branded ABIT motherboard reviews for some of the same. And they are a paid advertiser even!!! )

 

[DryFire]

$50 for 30MHz

That makes a difference for people with more money then brains and that are afriad of overclocking. I can't say I'd pay for it, but someone who actually cares about their warrenty and doesn't want to try and cheat the company when he kills the card Oc'ing it. The BFG is $560 after so the 7800GTX is by no means a cheap card to begin with. Would I buy it? Definatly not, but i didn't need to look at the patent to figure that out.

That said, if they did connect the stock heatsink to that metal cover it could provide marginally better performance. By no stetch of the imagination is it revolutionary. I guess we'll have to see what's under the cover when they open it up.

 

[Elstaf]

I have to admit, I like seeing someone stick it to evga. I have purchased one card from them. It had to be UNDERCLOCKED in order to get it to run games without graphic anomalies. I sent emails. I posted on their "support" forums. I was nice. They basically told me to go screw myself.

 

[mohammedtaha]

I believe all they're trying to do is some how blow air through that open duct in hopes that it increases performance.

Close it up and allow more intake .. maybe then you can get more performance.

I would rather buy a normal 7800GTX and buy a NV Silencer when available to increase performance and allow a quieter and better cooling solution at a much lower price.

That $120 is SIMPLY not worth it.

 

[MD]

I'm behind Kyle 100% to.

Old school does still remmember ACS ver 1 and their marketing and their rediness to goo to war with HardOCP.
People wich doo not remmember (where still in Pempers/diepers what ever) could say it's bit Hard but heya they are selling BS to Us. Why did You took a Red Pill? Why did You want to know the whats behind ACS technology?




MD

 

[DryFire]

I would rather buy a normal 7800GTX and buy a NV Silencer when available to increase performance and allow a quieter and better cooling solution at a much lower price.

That $120 is SIMPLY not worth it.

Thus killing the warrenty on your brand new $500+ investment. I'd do it, but there's a large percentage of people who cringe at the thought.

 

[AACDIRECT]

You have a point but the inference was that because of the cooler they felt they could deliver the card at those clocks while offering a lifetime warranty. Marketing is marketing. They are gettting thier moneys worth. Who ever made the decision gets cudos because it has made EVGA the topic of conversation all over the net and if the card delivers without issue and runs cool enough then its a marketing job well done.

THere are more than a few in here that have invested in the area of $50 (which is what we are realy talking here) in coolers and ram sinks to mod thier cards. This is the Alien ware of video cards for the well healed who want a "custom look" highly clocked idiot proof solution. ITs a proven model for an established niche

I have to totaly agree with Kyle B here. Seems like a big-O steamer.

If the cooling is just a glossed over stock cooler than it is bad marketing. The customer is being decived that they are getting an "improved" part when it is just a fancy cover. Funny you used Alienware as an example; my company is trying to break into this market which is dominated by them. Most of what they sell is overpriced for what you get. Using Alienware as an example they sell ALX as some sort of custom watercooling when it is just a fancy cover over a koolance system on a chieftech case. For the same money you can buy one of my systems that is faster with a custom built case. I personally designed it and it is only available through us with a cooling system that is again far better than a prebuilt "kit". When the consumer buys my machine the additional cost is not covering some shiny sticker attachment plate but improved technology that will give them a better experience.

 

[MD]

25 $ for NV Silencer birings You top OC more then 490 MHz on same core. So 25$ is better cooling.

On other hand gett cheepest card with stock cooler and if it is from newer batch it will clock to 490 without extra costs. If it brakes within warranty well they have to give You other one. Just leave stock cooler on and provide some extra airflow over it.

BTW 7800GTX makes less heat then Ultras.



MD

 

[Torgo]

Bottom line: Does the cooling solution justify the cost? Based on the diagram, definitely not.

Only problem with the article is the phrasing of this sentence: Do you want a cooler on your brand new $599 video card that is based on cooling technology from 2002? All cooling is based on decades of research of moving heat from Point A to Point B. I could slap on a three foot copper heatsink that's circa 1840's technology and as long as it keeps the chip cool I'd be happy.

So does the cooling solutions justify the price? Going back to basics, cooling is based on Fourier's law which states that the time rate of heat flow Q through a block of material is proportional to the gradient of temperature difference. You could write it as Q = UAdeltaT. Since we're not talking about a Peltier cooler or heat pipes in the cooling solution, we're relying solely on the thermal conductivity on the heat sink and a fan to move the heat. This is a known rate depending on the material used as the heat sink. If it is a copper heat sink then it is 385 W·m-1·K-1; Aluminum is 205 W·m-1·K-1.

Nothing new here that hasn't been used before. So what would make this solution better than others? eVGA claims in their patent "heat generated by the active board elements is transferred to the thermal blocks, sinked in part to the cover plate and ultimately removed from blocks and plate by air flow drawn into and through thermal baffles or vanes in the cooling structure." Aha! So eVGA is depending on air to dissipate heat. Just like every other vendor. We also know that air has a thermal conductivity of 0.026 W·m-1·K-1. Since we know that Aluminum cools at a known rate, there would need be some strong wind moving over that plate (consider the noise factor?) and the air can only cool that aluminum so fast. During testing, I would expect that you would see temperature performance to be better than average when first starting up, but later even out to match every other video card.

See anything new yet? Anything to justify the cost? Anything to justify the "gains" in this cooling solution? There are some variables missing (amount of material used in heatsinks, Cu vs. Al, speed of fan, etc.) but the math would show that this cooling solution is more than likely no more effective than anything else out there.

 

[jacuzz1]

I have to totaly agree with Kyle B here. Seems like a big-O steamer.

If the cooling is just a glossed over stock cooler than it is bad marketing. The customer is being decived that they are getting an "improved" part when it is just a fancy cover. Funny you used Alienware as an example; my company is trying to break into this market which is dominated by them. Most of what they sell is overpriced for what you get. Using Alienware as an example they sell ALX as some sort of custom watercooling when it is just a fancy cover over a koolance system on a chieftech case. For the same money you can buy one of my systems that is faster with a custom built case. I personally designed it and it is only available through us with a cooling system that is again far better than a prebuilt "kit". When the consumer buys my machine the additional cost is not covering some shiny sticker attachment plate but improved technology that will give them a better experience.

You are absolutely correct however you left out the word niche. You are about to change that niche that Alienware has dominated by offering a better value to those customers that would consider Alienware..and you have a good chance of pulling it off assuming you have the capital.

Kyle is totally correct as it relates to his constituants since most of us could get our cards to those clocks with a bios flash, better cooling or both.

My point is that there are many whos needs will be filled by this card. Those who cannot or wont mess with thier bios or dont want to modify their cooling. The very same people who would drop money on an Alien ware or even your product for that matter. You see as nice as you product may be it not a good value for me since i can build one for myself. You will be successfull because there are many that wont or cant and so you will fill the need .....and based on your mission statement, better than Alienware

They only reason I will consider it for the cost of shipping is if my step up program is about to expire and because I paid $600 intially.

My other point , however vague, was that i detected just a tad of BFG protectionism and may have misunderstood Kyles motives. If I did Kyle , I apologize. Its just that the article was a little less subtle than usual and was reminecent of the phantom articles. I trust we can all agree that EVGA has done nothing as egregious as what happened there.


I hope I have clarified my postion

 

[magoo]

I have to totaly agree with Kyle B here. Seems like a big-O steamer.

If the cooling is just a glossed over stock cooler than it is bad marketing. The customer is being decived that they are getting an "improved" part when it is just a fancy cover. Funny you used Alienware as an example; my company is trying to break into this market which is dominated by them. Most of what they sell is overpriced for what you get. Using Alienware as an example they sell ALX as some sort of custom watercooling when it is just a fancy cover over a koolance system on a chieftech case. For the same money you can buy one of my systems that is faster with a custom built case. I personally designed it and it is only available through us with a cooling system that is again far better than a prebuilt "kit". When the consumer buys my machine the additional cost is not covering some shiny sticker attachment plate but improved technology that will give them a better experience.

Are you making a comment or trying to sell something??? aint that against the rule or something. Pay for advertising.

 

[Jerunk]

I think the funniest part was the comment about a website calling their series of coolers "lame". For a professional company to point something as ridiculous as that out on their website is pathetic.

 

[revenant]

Looking at the schematic drawing, I see nothing really special about the HSF.... The best thing there is the use of ram sinks, but the gpu cooler seems stock... and they encase it all in a black metal box .. I am guessing to cover up their super secret ram sink design.. ooooo... lol

I guess as long as it works at the stated clocks, and it's got the lifetime warranty, then it's a nice card, no doubt, but there is nothing special about the cooling tech. Not like the liquid metal one or anything... I am wondering if one of those will make it to a 7800 card.

 

[cell_491]

Looking at the schematic drawing, I see nothing really special about the HSF.... The best thing there is the use of ram sinks, but the gpu cooler seems stock... and they encase it all in a black metal box .. I am guessing to cover up their super secret ram sink design.. ooooo... lol

I guess as long as it works at the stated clocks, and it's got the lifetime warranty, then it's a nice card, no doubt, but there is nothing special about the cooling tech. Not like the liquid metal one or anything... I am wondering if one of those will make it to a 7800 card.

maybe we could petition BFG to create a 7800gtx based card that runs at 500x1350 using a liquid metal cooler

 

[consumer9000]

It's a freaking marketing gimmick. It's doubtful it performs any better than the stock solution...
Also, I don't understand why people have their panties in a bunch over the difference between a 2 year and a lifetime warranty? Who gives a flying fuck? Honestly, anyone buying this class of board will not keep it longer than two years, and will likely be itching to buy the next generation of hardware regardless...
Again, the lifetime warranty is yet one more clever marketing ploy. By the time something breaks, the cost of shipping it in for an RMA would be greater than the value of the product...and besides, any [H] user will have replaced the shitty stock heatsink long ago, and being the honest people we are, would not try to seek an RMA for a modified product.

 

[fuelvolts]

It's a freaking marketing gimmick. It's doubtful it performs any better than the stock solution...
Also, I don't understand why people have their panties in a bunch over the difference between a 2 year and a lifetime warranty? Who gives a flying fuck? Honestly, anyone buying this class of board will not keep it longer than two years, and will likely be itching to buy the next generation of hardware regardless...
Again, the lifetime warranty is yet one more clever marketing ploy. By the time something breaks, the cost of shipping it in for an RMA would be greater than the value of the product...and besides, any [H] user will have replaced the shitty stock heatsink long ago, and being the honest people we are, would not try to seek an RMA for a modified product.

I got a free upgrade when I took advantage of my lifetime warranty from BFG:\

The fan on my Ti4200 HSF died - I called them and they promptly sent me a RETAIL FX5900 XT OC (the fastest at the time) - they gave me a $250 GPU for my 75 after rebate 2 year old card.

On top of that - my 5900XT has another lifetime warranty - so when/if that fan dies or a capacitor blows or whatever BAM - Another FREE UPGRADE!

I havnt bought a new GPU since 2001 - and no, I am not taking advantage of the company - they are valid warranty claims.

 

[FrgMstr]

My other point , however vague, was that i detected just a tad of BFG protectionism and may have misunderstood Kyles motives.

Also, I am unsure why you would single out BFG, although I am a big BFG fan. Check out the video card index and see that we have recently showcased VisionTek ( a company that BFG has big issue with ) MSI, ATI, PowerColor, NVIDIA, Gigabyte, Sapphire, Asus, and ABIT....and that is just from this year! Of those, advertisers include, VisionTek, BFG, MSI, ATI, Asus, and ABIT. Anyway, just wanted to get that straight.

 

[sposh]

This is how HardOCP has always been. If they feel a company is doing something shady or releasing subpar hardware they really go to town on them. They bashed NVidia when the 5xxx series sucked, but gave them props for the 6xxx cards. They also bashed the crap out of Matrox when they released the Parhelia and it didn't perform nearly as well as hoped. I can see how Kyle's "attitude" can rub people the wrong way, but he has always been extremely fair in his reviews. I think he acts like that to really get the news out there so people know which products to avoid, or maybe it's just because he's a Texan...

Either way he makes it clear whether he likes something or not, and that's what you need from a review site I can't wait to see HardOCP's review of this card to see whether Kyle was right or wrong this time

 

[FrgMstr]

Either way he makes it clear whether he likes something or not, and that's what you need from a review site I can't wait to see HardOCP's review of this card to see whether Kyle was right or wrong this time

Are you suggesting it is possible that we could be wrong? Oh yeah, don't bring up that Pentium 4 thing. That reminds me that I have not beat Steve today......

 

[DamienThorn]

Well, I want to thank Kyle and all the other people doing reviews for [H] because everytime I read them I think that I'm getting a legit review. If they think a product sucks, they say so. I'm sick and tired of review sites reviewing a product, pointing out all the problems with it, and then giving it a "X Recommends" or 9.8/10 at the conclusion. All the reviews at [H] are direct, and don't try to confuse the customer that's only looking at the end of the reviews because they simply don't understand all the benchmarks.

 

[acaurora]

Look at it this way...You can buy a BFG 7800GTX for $559 at NewEgg or $599 at BestBuy. It's the same card...its up to the buyer to get himeself/herself the best deal.

Just to let you know, the employee price for that 7800 GTX BFG from BestBuy for BestBuy employees is $500, ROFL! Only problem is, the only real way to get it @ that price since none of the BestBuy's in my area carry them, is to order it online, return it, then buy it as it hits the shelves ;P...

 

[soekev]

It's definitely a marketing gimmick because they are also advertising the ability to mix/match different colored ACS covers "soon":

http://www.evga.com/evtweak/images/acs-5-minis.gif

Being sort of a "bling bling" kinda guy, I like the idea of being able to mix match different colored ACS covers.

 

[moetop]

Arnt other 7800 GTX's $599 MSRP?(Please correct me if im wrong) If so the fact that you had to buy one off of their site for full retail means nothing other than the fact that they are coming in a little late to the game, because you cant find one anywhere else. Selling products for only MSRP if you actualy produce them is standard practice in all industries. Dont compete aginst the people you sell to. In my book comparing MSRP to a NON MSRP deal you can find on the net is not quite right. We have yet to see these cards with rebates, or % off's yet. (once again late to the game, doesent mean they cant catch up price wise)

Considering the 3 huge articles I have seen on the front page concerning how Craptacular this company has been in the past, that it's allready been called a marketing ploy, and it's MSRP price is being compared to NON MSRP prices. It leaves me with some doubt as to how much of a fair shake this card will get.. I think it is going to have to be a dancing frog to get awards from Hardocp. (Or it just might croak )

I look at it as just another 7800 GTX and if it's overpriced, we will only find out in a month or 2 when vendors actualy have a little while to sell it.

I truely appreciate the great work Hardocp does with REAL WORLD benchmarks and overclocking. It adds great value to reviews. I look forward to those numbers in their review of this card, but wish there was not as much preemptive bashing as their has been. Let the numbers speak for themselvs.

 

[kidicarus74]

... they promptly sent me a RETAIL FX5900 XT OC (the fastest at the time) -.

wasn't the 5900xt just a budget version of the 5900ultra?

 

[Scroatdog]

Unless the metal in this 'revolutionary' cooling system is made of gold, there is no way that crap is worth $120.00. Might as well change their company logo to eVga - The Fleecing Of Enthusiasts.

 

[Equalizer]

I'm in the process of my step up program to buy this card. I bought the 7800gtx when it came out and paid the 600 tag which was probably a mistake since prices came down. Too late for that now. I just went ahead with the new card since its only going to cost me .99 cents plus shipping to upgrade.

 

[cell_491]

Unless the metal in this 'revolutionary' cooling system is made of gold, there is no way that crap is worth $120.00. Might as well change their company logo to eVga - The Fleecing Of Enthusiasts.

actually there is more than just the cooler that your paying for...you do get a significant stock overclock 490x1300 and a lifetime warranty so even though all that may not be worth $120 thats not how much your paying for the stupid cooler thingy ma jiggy

 

[Goaty]

The mark of a reputable reviewer is to show the facts and base their opinions on these facts even if the vendor in question is an advertiser. I think this is lost on many people who criticize HardOCP and other enthusiast sites.

The mark of a reputable Vendor is to own up to a crappy product and work diligently to correct their problems. eVGA should step up to the plate. They have been called to task on their new product. It's time for them to open a constructive dialog with [H] (or anyone) to answer these questions.

But then again, what do I know....
Goaty

 

[cell_491]

The mark of a reputable reviewer is to show the facts and base their opinions on these facts even if the vendor in question is an advertiser. I think this is lost on many people who criticize HardOCP and other enthusiast sites.

The mark of a reputable Vendor is to own up to a crappy product and work diligently to correct their problems. eVGA should step up to the plate. They have been called to task on their new product. It's time for them to open a constructive dialog with [H] (or anyone) to answer these questions.

But then again, what do I know....
Goaty

i actually agree with you...if they would have asked the enthusiast scene before going on with development of this card cooler they may have actually made something interesting like a liquid metal cooler or somthing

 

[Chris_B]

Ive been busy designing my own graphics card cooler, behold the hyper megacooler 5000.

Features include:

Ultra heavy design, so cards will need reinforment kits (not included) to bare the weight of the coolers.

Incredibly slender profile, only takes up FOUR pci slots

Runs from its own 800 hyper megawatt psu (available seperately for $299.99)

Variable speed fan controller, fans can be adjusted from 15,000 rpm (lowest setting) upto an incredible 30,000 rpm @ a miniscule 2000Db. Earplugs not included.


I just need an additional $50,000 to finalise the design then BOOYA watch out arctic coolers you;re gonna be calling me daddy.

 

[AACDIRECT]

Ive been busy designing my own graphics card cooler, behold the hyper megacooler 5000.

Features include:

Ultra heavy design, so cards will need reinforment kits (not included) to bare the weight of the coolers.

Incredibly slender profile, only takes up FOUR pci slots

Runs from its own 800 hyper megawatt psu (available seperately for $299.99)

Variable speed fan controller, fans can be adjusted from 15,000 rpm (lowest setting) upto an incredible 30,000 rpm @ a miniscule 2000Db. Earplugs not included.


I just need an additional $50,000 to finalise the design then BOOYA watch out arctic coolers you;re gonna be calling me daddy.

Dude that is awsome Now only if there was a giant place for a sticker and the option of 5 delicious flavors.

 

[Brent_Justice]

People.. it's just marketing hype. It shouldn't be that big of an issue.

it is when more money is being asked for it to purchase

 

[revenant]

Ive been busy designing my own graphics card cooler, behold the hyper megacooler 5000.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/New Folder/super-cooler.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/New Folder/supercooler-side.jpg
Features include:

Ultra heavy design, so cards will need reinforment kits (not included) to bare the weight of the coolers.
Incredibly slender profile, only takes up FOUR pci slots
Runs from its own 800 hyper megawatt psu (available seperately for $299.99)
Variable speed fan controller, fans can be adjusted from 15,000 rpm (lowest setting) upto an incredible 30,000 rpm @ a miniscule 2000Db. Earplugs not included.

I just need an additional $50,000 to finalise the design then BOOYA watch out arctic coolers you;re gonna be calling me daddy.

lol!! huh - that looked like a 1.21 jiggawatt psu to me though.