Europe to Get Windows 7 Sans Browser

movax said:
ftp> open ftp.mozilla.org

Hmm, I guess its more likely they'll get the installer on a flashdrive somehow, but still...entertaining.
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you forgot a few commands...most users won't know what they are doing

Code: 
ftp ftp.mozilla.org
anoynmous
(no passwd) enter
bin
cd pub/firefox/releases/latest-3.5/win32/en-US
get Firefox Setup 3.5 Beta 99.exe

then they have to find the file.

I bet the EU makes MS include some GUI app that lets them pick a browser to install.
 
movax said:
ftp> open ftp.mozilla.org

Hmm, I guess its more likely they'll get the installer on a flashdrive somehow, but still...entertaining.
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Like I said, "most users" and we DONT represent "most users". You know, the people who call a 3.5" floppy disk a "Hard disk"? Most users dont even know what FTP even is, let alone the command strings for it. If there isent an Icon on the desktop for it, they dont know how to use it. Im sure some Yerp tech company's will be fielding a lot of "How do I open the internet" calls.
 
bicycle_wreck said:
You need a browser first. LOL
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Nah, modern motherboards can get you surfing the net before the post screen.

More to the general theme of the thread, I would buy a stripped down version (not gimped) of windows over the bloated version.

Actually, it does not need be stripped down, a better option would be an advanced install option (not one of them pussy advanced options that only lets you change the default directory). Where I could go though and uncheck everything I didn't want. Bye bye unneeded services and features.

It would be badass to install a streamlined version that is optimized to boot fast and game well.
 
Gibbage said:
OK. Im a little confused. So you build your new system, get it booted and install Windows 7 EU with no IE, then what? How the hell are you going to download a fricken browser? I know many of us have other computers, and flash drives/CD's, but we dont represent 99% of the consumer who really dont have that as an option. So they have a friend burn them a firefox CD? Go to a store and buy a browser?

I think it should be an install option, and un-installable. Its not that I have anything against IE at all, I just like to have a choice in how I run my PC. Its not like I have a friggen Mac were I dont have any choice on anything what-so-ever.
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You are very confused. It says right in the article quotation that OEMs have the choice to install whatever browser they want. Any OEM that doesn't include a web browser on their PCs will not sell any of them, bottom line. Nobody wants to open up a new computer and then have to dig up an install disk or FTP from a command line just to get a browser. If they decide that they don't want to sell IE in their computers, they will bundle it with FF, Opera, Chrome, whatever.

Second, no idea where you get that idea on Macs, I've got four browsers installed on mine at the moment (which reminds me, WTF is Camino still doing on there...)

Either way, this is stupid. Linux distros come with Firefox and OS X comes with Safari. I don't get how MS bundling a browser is anticompetitive in and of itself. About the only thing I can rail on IE for is sucking, but that's why I just install a better browser and get rid of the IE shortcut. This is nothing like the heinous shenanigans Microsoft was pulling on PC manufacturers and IBM back in the 90s. Really really dumb that they're being penalized for including a web browser when every other operating system out there has one bundled. Maybe its because FF and Safari are open source and IE isn't? I dunno, but IMO that's a stretch.
 
DocFaustus said:
It would be badass to install a streamlined version that is optimized to boot fast and game well.
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Windows 7 boots pretty darn fast. Speed as far as game performance goes is neck and neck with Vista, but I think that's kind of irrelevant at this point with how much horsepower recent PCs have. For notebooks, yeah, being able to strip it down would be nice. OS 10.5 whips Vista and Windows 7 on notebooks in terms of speed and battery life, and 10.6 is going to be even faster. For desktops though, eh, Win7 is plenty fast IMO, especially since it doesn't thrash the HD like Vista does.
 
majortom1981 said:
They sort of have this already. Its called windows update. All they really need to do is make firefox and other browsers available on it. While they are at it make flash updates and java updates available on it to.
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While they're at it, cant they just change to debian/ubuntu. it does all that,a and more.

I gotta say, I love that feature, what should i do with ie, see the icon everyday and get annoyed that it cannot get unistalled. that i have to see it everyday.
its like having a ugly ugly statue in youre house you just cannot remove :(

No issues that they bundle it, since i need something to download opera and firefox with :p
 
The OEM's will likely install IE in the majority of cases anyway. So this seems rather pointless. Then again, you can't sue MS for what the OEM's do, so I guess there is a point to it from MS's point of view.
 
GORANKAR said:
The OEM's will likely install IE in the majority of cases anyway. So this seems rather pointless. Then again, you can't sue MS for what the OEM's do, so I guess there is a point to it from MS's point of view.
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Yea, and they'll do this because that's what their customers want. Damn europe is dumb.
 
GORANKAR said:
The OEM's will likely install IE in the majority of cases anyway. So this seems rather pointless. Then again, you can't sue MS for what the OEM's do, so I guess there is a point to it from MS's point of view.
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Good point, MS doing this just shoots away that kind of liability away from them. Just give in and let the OEMs make they call, they'll likely install IE anyway.

WTF EU...
 
Why don't they just stop selling it to Europe? Can't get sued for what you don't sell.
 
So I am going to have to travel to the UK to get my copy of windows 7?

I loath IE I have ever since I installed Netscape on my old windows 95 box way back when I still had all the hair on my head. Mozilla rocked my socks, and the only reason I still have IE on any of my computer is because I am a gamer and like to play FPS games in their native environments. Also I like to be able to manually update windows occasionally, which you can't do from other browsers.

Heck I remember using a 98lite and having to hunt down my windows 95 disc to install explorer from windows 95 so that I could avoid IE completely with windows 98se.
 
fantastic, i don't want IE bloating up my windows 7.. how do i get a EU version?
 
bonsai said:
I wish I had that option, but Microsoft has such a choke hold over the market that if I want to use the software that I like, there's no viable option but Windows.
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It isn't Microsoft's fault when developers decide to develop applications for Windows alone.
 
Seems like some of you are really confused, or don't know what are you talking about.

1) It's MS decision, not something EU ordered MS to do. It's just MS reaction to Opera EU filling.
2) All MS did was removal of the icon and iexplore.exe executable. IE core is still installed, you just can't start the Internet Explorer executable.
3) IE8 will be in Windows Update, so all you need to get IE on your PC will be Start>Windows Update>Optional Updates>mark Internet Explorer 8.0>Install.
 
Don't you think they will have a second disc "insert disc 2 and choose browser" bundled with win7?
includes:
IE8
safari
opera
FF
Netscape
And charge $10 extra to print the extra disc.
 
What about all the software that relies on Internet Explorer for embedded browsers and will not use anything else? Steam comes to mind.
 
If I remember IE is part of windows explorer and they share the same core and interface, just IE is viewing websites instead of folders how they want to remove it and make standalone windows installation "N".

Anyway I consider this as downgrade, even those who don't use IE mainly need it atleast after system installation. When you install new system you even use IE because you need to download other browser and drivers. Now users will be messing up with CDs like in 90s just to get access to internet. EU regulators probably don't understand that every hardware, device or software is sold with wide range of equipment and accessories which increasing usage of them.
Maybe to solution for this problem could be return back to era of Windows 98 and ME installators, those offered that optional parts of system were or not included in installation and you just checked which of them you want to install - if you remember what I mean, the list of stuff with check-boxes near them.
 
This is not surprising. Windows EU would be cool though, with nothing preinstalled. And if necessary, one could from scratch select m$ apps to be installed e.g. via win update or something.
 
*sigh*

Every time this sort of argument generally arises we have two rough sides:

1) The Americans who hate everything the EU does and bash it repeatedly.
2) EU dwellers (including the UK) who actually understand the balls it takes to stand up to corporations and make them do what you desire.

In this case, I do agree that making the Windows 7 E version in its current form is useless. The EU should simply have dictated that Firefox, Opera, heck, even bloody Safari or Chrome (& this from someone who openly loathes bad programmes) be burned on to the DVD alongside IE8.

Another way would be to have a neutral lightweight browser installed first. This would give you basic browsing options and ask whether you want to install any of the latest IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari or Chrome, then download them for you and run the installer.

The real question I guess is why more people aren't screaming for this to happen outside the EU. You keep defending Microsoft in these areas as if it's innocent. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to nail Microsoft to the cross either, but if it went out of its way to stop being so anti-competitive, maybe the EU wouldn't have to keep forcing its hand.

I might try to become an MEP sometime so I can sort out this debacle myself. At least I can say I actually understand it, which is more than most politicians.

/end *sigh*
 
Guys, these IE free N versions dont actually exist to any major degree.

All this N version means is that the EU have ruled that MS has to supply a IE free version of their OS if anyone requests it.

No one will (other then maybe a few Govt depts).

All the versions we see in the shops in the EU will come with IE8 etc. All the OEM installs will have IE8.

Its just that MS has to have a IE free version in its inventory if its requested.
 
Oh yes and the fact that probably the EU hasnt covered updates so chances are after the first install and updates, IE8 will magically appear...........;)
 
Lord_Anselhelm said:
2) EU dwellers (including the UK) who actually understand the balls it takes to stand up to corporations and make them do what you desire.
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That line burns me. Why are you forcing a corporation to do something you want through legislation? Vote with your damn wallet. MS makes a wildly successful product that most people want. If people don't want it, then don't buy it. That's why IE has been slipping in use, people don't want it. No regulatory body was needed to get people to use FF. If a company ignores what its customers want, they will eventually go under. Let it happen.

Second, why would you go out and find a product that doesn't suit your needs, and mount a campaign to force it to suit your needs, and then use it, all the time there was a product out there that already did what you wanted. I couldn't tell you how many distros of linux are out there, but I'm sure you could find one that did what you wanted it to, and you wouldn't have to sue MS to get it.
 
1. This won't be a problem for OEM versions as the system provider will install a browser for you.

2. For the retail version, you probably already know what to do. But, if you don't:

Browser vendors should provide URIs (that never change) to the latest stable version. For example:

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/pub/ie/releases/latest/win32/ie_latest.exe
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/latest/win32/firefox_latest.exe
ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/releases/latest/win32/opera_latest.exe
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/seamonkey/releases/latest/win32/seamonkey_latest.exe
ftp://ftp.apple.com/pub/safari/releases/latest/win32/safari_latest.exe
ftp://ftp.flock.com/pub/releases/latest/win32/flock_latest.exe

Then, MS should put a little front-end that uses that list (that's updatable through windows update) to allow you to choose what browser you want to download.

On each load of this front-end, the list should be randomized so that a certain browser isn't always at the top of the list.

For each one in the list, there could be something like, "For support information, see <http://opera.com/>" etc.

But, since those things don't seem to be happening, you'll just have to know what to do if you get the retail version.
 
The retail versions will be the same as anywhere else. They will have IE in them.

The non IE version is just an inventory option that MS has to provide.
 
You know what Steve, that is not a bad idea, make an sku just for the EU that has nothing in it at all however when you install it ask do you want the windows base package and it will install windows normally.

Don't get that confused with saying install windows core then ask that would just annoy customers, just install windows with any program that has been available since win 3.11 and let them choose at install.
 
People bitch when it includes a browser, and bitch when it doesn't have a decent word processor built in... I don't get it.

I wouldn't mind seeing a very modular installation option to where you can add/remove what you like to make a custom installation (or like above: an app store type of application). Optional to install all these programs, so they don't piss off the ones that it has too much stuff (or a monopoly) or that it doesn't include some other software and Linux does (I'm sure MS would put it in there, but alas, people would bitch about bloat and too much useless stuff installed).

Either way, MS is screwed. A lot of people bitch and moan about one thing, MS fixes it, then they bitch some more. I guess its cool to hate Microsoft. Guess I'm not cool... Hell, I even love Vista... Well, DID. Until I was spoiled by the awesomeness of Windows 7!
 
For thos who can't read - there is NO ruling to remove the browser or include other browsers. This decision was made solely by Microsoft.
 
faugusztin said:
For thos who can't read - there is NO ruling to remove the browser or include other browsers. This decision was made solely by Microsoft.
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Right. They did it themselves as a precaution so they don't get nailed later on.
 
I think Europe should sue Canonical for bundling Firefox with Ubuntu, and not Opera.
 
Magnus said:
I dunno 'bout Europe but, there's a sizeable market for Windows 7 sans IE 8 right here in the USA.
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gaspah said:
fantastic, i don't want IE bloating up my windows 7.. how do i get a EU version?
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Why don't you just turn off IE8 in Windows 7 after you get it installed? :rolleyes:

The APIs are still there though because other parts of Windows make use of them. All the EU is really getting is Windows 7 without an icon.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
I think Europe should sue Canonical for bundling Firefox with Ubuntu, and not Opera.
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Canonical doesn't have 90% market. Microsoft does. If you got nearly to monopoly status, you must play by different rules. Not just in EU, this is true for other countries too, including USA. EU is just quicker...
 
Governments tend to over reach and this is just another example. Don't get me wrong, I'm a moderate, I believe that government has a necessary role in the peaceful and prosperous society that's just as important as private business.

But when governments become strapped for cash or when its popular to restrict freedoms and rights government will often come to the rescue when not really needed.

One day Google, Apple and others are going to rue the day that governments ever got involoved in software design because guess who governments are coming for next?

Just look at the smoking issue. Next fatty foods, alcohol, sex, just name it. Hell, if they keep this up it'll be easier and cheaper to buy pot than cigarettes.

Oh well, freedom is overated.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
theres are many reasons why win2k is held in such high regard, and one of those reasons is how relatively lightweight it is compared to every other modern release of an OS... sure it had *some* extras, but they were kept to a relative minimum....
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And guess what? Average Joe wants to start their OS and not have to go about downloading codecs and other nonsense just to play a DVD. Hence why Microsoft starts packing that stuff in. I, for one, love Windows 7 that way because I haven't come across a DVD it cannot play.

riot8ap said:
I bet the EU makes MS include some GUI app that lets them pick a browser to install.
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450 said:
I actually like IE8 and its now my primary browser.
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Ditto.

Acer_Sheep said:
If I remember IE is part of windows explorer and they share the same core and interface
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Wrong. IE stopped being integrated with Explorer at IE7, even on XP.


Lord_Anselhelm said:
2) EU dwellers (including the UK) who actually understand the balls it takes to stand up to corporations and make them do what you desire.
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I'd guess you also think it was *balls* for the US Government to put a "stand" on blocking executive salaries?

Government does not need to get involved with private enterprise, plain and simple.

If consumers like a product, they buy and do well.
If consumers don't like a product, the product fails.

Guess what? Consumers like Windows. All this is is a cash flow stream for the EU. Period.

Last time they crippled Vista, remember... Everyone over there bought the US copies anyway. If anything the EU encourages its members to buy copies elsewhere, and increase piracy.

maddude0025 said:
If people don't want it, then don't buy it. That's why IE has been slipping in use, people don't want it.
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Bingo. Glad someone other than me understands that... It seems more people would rather complain about "evil" Microsoft instead of ignoring the fact that people WANT to buy Windows. It's not Microsoft's fault that nobody wants Linux.
 
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