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Established Traders Group

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I buy and sell here every so often and I have like 20 heat (maybe), I just got out of giving heat because some see it as a hassle (even had a guy call me to rant that now his wife knew he spent more money on computer stuff) and that the reason for the low heat- And I don't request any for the "freebies" thread.
Find ONE person that hasn't had a good experience trading with me. I Dare You :D

and I post my heat info in my sig...
 
gwarren007 said:
I buy and sell here every so often and I have like 20 heat (maybe), I just got out of giving heat because some see it as a hassle (even had a guy call me to rant that now his wife knew he spent more money on computer stuff) and that the reason for the low heat- And I don't request any for the "freebies" thread.
Find ONE person that hasn't had a good experience trading with me. I Dare You :D

and I post my heat info in my sig...
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I've never traded with you, so technically I haven't had a good experience trading with you :p'

As many have said, it's a good idea, a bit flawed, but then so are most things in the world
 
I vote a sticky on this till all us good traders see the thread. Great idea here and thanks for the invite!
 
I'll start by saying I've never done online deals, here or elsewhere because I am not willing to put up with the potential headaches inherent in the setup. However, I feel that if there were established groups like this, where the forum mods were apart of the group..and held the group to a higher standard than the normal users of the forum..then that would be a step in the right direction for someone like myself.

Here's my input on it.

Instead of it being "trusted" traders, perhaps it should be established traders. Where there is a running list linking their HardOCP alias, other forums they deal on aliases, and their heatware alias. But once it's listed it shouldn't be unlisted for any reason, so if this person "turns bad" you have access to the information from the past and you can make a personal decision that you feel the person has learned his lesson or not to your own standards.

Then if the person ever gets removed from this group, his other information is there. So everyone is staking their entire reputation when they join this group, and the group would self police more stringently because the mods themselves are in the group. And other the other hand, this group could also work as a stepping stone for unestablished traders once it gets large enough, so the scammers have a group of people they have to avoid dealing with if they don't want to be caught.

Of course there is always the problem of someone picking on one individual in this group and harassing by leaving false heat and other things elsewhere....but I'm not sure how easily this is dealt with or not. So it could be a hurdle or just a small nuisance.

Shrug, may or may not be a useful opinion.
 
veterator said:
...Where there is a running list linking their HardOCP alias, other forums they deal on aliases, and their heatware alias. But once it's listed it shouldn't be unlisted for any reason, so if this person "turns bad" you have access to the information from the past and you can make a personal decision that you feel the person has learned his lesson or not to your own standards.

Then if the person ever gets removed from this group, his other information is there. So everyone is staking their entire reputation when they join this group, and the group would self police more stringently because the mods themselves are in the group. And other the other hand, this group could also work as a stepping stone for unestablished traders once it gets large enough, so the scammers have a group of people they have to avoid dealing with if they don't want to be caught.
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One of the first things I did was invite Kyle, Steve, and all the FS/FT mods.

This is all I am asking for, ideas on how to improve the group. I am new at this and this group does have some flaws. If a non-trader can come up with a good idea, you pros should be overflowing with them. ;)
 
47-0-1 but a member for 8 years and the 1 neg was an idiot from genmay.com, that got something and lied about it. Heat still hasn't take it off and probably won't ever. I will demand heat transactions from now on LOL.
 
I think this is an excellent idea. It helps to know who the top traders are.

Sure nothing's perfect, so maybe instead of knocking and criticizing people can offer suggestions to make this works.

As a community, we can all help make this work and create a safer environment for member to trade on. Will this eliminate all scams? No, but I think people will make a better effort to be recognized as a good trader.
 
I think it should be harder to get in. IE, at least 2 people with at least 100 heat must invite you. Anyhow, if you want to invite me to initially start the group, heat is in my sig.
 
Omerta said:
I think it should be harder to get in. IE, at least 2 people with at least 100 heat must invite you. Anyhow, if you want to invite me to initially start the group, heat is in my sig.
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I think it will get to that as the group grows, but to get to a critical mass where we can require something like what you suggested we need to be more lax with the rules at the start. If the group keeps on growing like it is, that may not be too far off. :cool:
 
wolfofsin said:
I think this is an excellent idea. It helps to know who the top traders are.

Sure nothing's perfect, so maybe instead of knocking and criticizing people can offer suggestions to make this works.

As a community, we can all help make this work and create a safer environment for member to trade on. Will this eliminate all scams? No, but I think people will make a better effort to be recognized as a good trader.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. Let's begin there. A good enough standard for the goals of the group.

The first things that occur to me:
1. We all want to reduce the scams, poor communications, bad discipline and, just simple stuff that is not done. Just to act in ways that make a pretty good outcome likely.
2. Suppose we agree that every one in this group adheres to some well known rules for EVERY trade they do?
a. We all know what they are (or maybe not; add your own):
i. List your paypal addy, your email, your heat in your ad.
ii. List your physical address, your land line phone, maybe even your SS# with the group admin. I see that one needs work.
iii. DOA is refund on receipt.
iv. Agree to ship by priority mail <3 pounds; UPS between 3 and 12 pounds or (whatever) AND report TRACKING within 2 days of payment.
Or what…
 
Sphere said:
I feel folks are making this way more than it is. However, I would be supportive if the only members were here on their on merit, and not the recommendation of others.

Having a good trader list is a very good idea. Just look at how many post in the *deals gone wrong* section.

Brom, just remember, you can't please all the people all the time. Your doing a good thing IMO.
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Just a couple of thoughts before dinner.

One would hope members are recommending based on merit and not the buddy system. Brom knows not everyone will be happy and not all decent traders will be invited. Otherwise, we're just partially recreating heatware for local use...which is redundant. In my mind, traders which hold themselves to higher standards than the average guy is what we should be looking for at this time.
 
ickywu said:
Agree to ship by priority mail <3 pounds; UPS between 3 and 12 pounds or (whatever) AND report TRACKING within 2 days of payment.
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The only way I ship is UPS/FedEx-Signature confirmation.

IMHO 2 days is much too long. I give tracking same day, and expect that out of any seller. This is about responsibility, and for me, 2 days is surely not acceptable for my standards.
 
Well, it's not always about being the perfect trader, but making sure you do right by the other trader. I'm sure most of us have had issues arise in our trades, but to make it right for the buyer is what really earns a reputation.

A simple, "I'm sorry, I messed up, but let me fix it" goes a long way. I've been on both sides. Things happen to everyone, even the 100+ Heat guys.
 
Nother idea I had was that people in the group shouldn't use the group as a way to bargain with people in anyway. IE, Im in this group you know Im a good for the trade, so give me X amount off because it will lead to abuse and open yourself up for people who give members discounts to get in quicker.
 
Hmm. Seems to be almost as daunting as trying to keep tabs on the BAD traders, but if you've got the time, more power to you.
For those of you who actually check up on the people you deal with - I say the more info you can get the better.
For those of you who don't..........well....good luck....your on your own.
 
veterator said:
Nother idea I had was that people in the group shouldn't use the group as a way to bargain with people in anyway. IE, Im in this group you know Im a good for the trade, so give me X amount off because it will lead to abuse and open yourself up for people who give members discounts to get in quicker.
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I agree. It should be used as a point of reference. Not a bargaining chip.
 
Don't know bout you guys, but I value the age of the heatware account more than anything else. My heatware account is only 5 years old, but when I see people with accounts that start in 2002 or earlier, it gives me a ton of confidence.

And greatly agree on the dangers of this becoming an "old-boys" network kind of group.
 
I think instead of having the number of heat determines the qualification, we should have something that diverse from that, otherwise this group would be called the 100+ heat group.
I propose the following:
In order to get in the group, you need:
- 5+ people already in the group vouch for you.
- Reasonable amount of heat (not necessarily 100+)
- Give up your address and a contact phone number to the mods (no need to post it publicly)
- The people who vouches for you must confirm that the address is actually the address they have dealt with.
- If you change your phone number, you have to update it here. Once a mod found out you have change your phone number, and not report it, they may exercise discretion to remove you from the group or put a flag. Confirming your phone number is as easy as sms in gmail.

In this way, the group would promote confirmed, responsible trader, not buy and sell much traders.
 
I'm just going to state right here and right now, that no moderator/admin on this forum wants the responsibility of having anyone's real name/home address/social security number/etc....They can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

Good trading is all about good judgement, and while "endorsing" other users might be nice, I wouldn't do a single thing differently than I would with someone who wasn't endorsed.
 
Oldie said:
I'm just going to state right here and right now, that no moderator/admin on this forum wants the responsibility of having anyone's real name/home address/social security number/etc....They can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

Good trading is all about good judgement, and while "endorsing" other users might be nice, I wouldn't do a single thing differently than I would with someone who wasn't endorsed.
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QFT. In any trade, do your homework on the other person. Google search their user name, email, phone number, etc etc to see if you get any hits. Send an email to their heat address, make sure they respond., etc etc. All this group will end up being is an epeen group, and the first one to go bad will make off big.
 
Sphere said:
The only way I ship is UPS/FedEx-Signature confirmation.

IMHO 2 days is much too long. I give tracking same day, and expect that out of any seller. This is about responsibility, and for me, 2 days is surely not acceptable for my standards.
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I agree. I always ship ASAP. If you have time to post your sale thread, you should have time to ship it out ASAP.
 
How about anyone in the trusted trader group having a special color for thier thread title distinguishing them as a trusted trader? This would obviously draw more attention to the threads where someone doesn't have to worry about who's selling what.
 
Hard and Confused said:
How about anyone in the trusted trader group having a special color for thier thread title distinguishing them as a trusted trader? This would obviously draw more attention to the threads where someone doesn't have to worry about who's selling what.
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This would be like endorsing the member officially from [H] stand point.

If and this is a huge if, one of these long term high reputation sellers goes rogue and scams a shit load of people. I would think that some of the blame would seem to fall on [H]'s staff for officially endorsing this member's "trust worthy" status.

Honestly I know it wouldn't be their fault but try telling that to those who are scammed and thought they could trust this person do to his stand out for sale thread.

The responsibility and how successful this group ends up being, should solely rely on the group itself.

Just my 2 copper pieces.
 
I think a simple solution would be that this group be an unofficial list of members who meet a certain set of criteria. It should be explained that it is in no way an endorsement, but a list of members who have a standout trading reputation amongst the [H] community. That being said, it should not be by simple admission. Maybe by nomination and support from maybe 5 members who detail their reasons.

ExampleL

Member X: I nominated Mamber A because we've had several smooth trades and he was prompt in shipping and providing tracking information and the items were paccked exceptionally well.

Member Y: I second Membet A. There was a problem with the UPS delivery of an item he/she was sending me and Member A was very good about following up with the UPS and keeping me informed.

This eliminates things like 100+ Heat which can involve other forums, but makes the list based upon [H] member feedback.
 
Hard and Confused said:
How about anyone in the trusted trader group having a special color for thier thread title distinguishing them as a trusted trader? This would obviously draw more attention to the threads where someone doesn't have to worry about who's selling what.
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That's not doable with the forum software and even if it were, it would mean an admin would have to maintain the user group in the control panel and that ain't gonna happen. Like Derfman said, [H] is not going to endorse this little club of yours.

Maybe y'all could just put it in your sigs.
 
I'd like to add that it would be nice if members that sell/trade often list their Heat name and geographical location in their forum post or sig. For shipping reasons, I prefer to buy from members east of the Mississippi.

Just my 2bits (inflation)
 
Alright everyone. The amount of requests for the group are starting to die down, so I will probably be closing down this thread soon.

There is a discussion for changing the rules for getting into the group here I'd like to keep discussions like this inside the group.

Members should be able to create discussions on new topics about the group. I haven't seen anyone else create a discussion topic, so LMK if you can't in a invite only group or if it isn't a problem. I think everyone (including myself) is starting to get a much better idea of what this group currently is and what we can make it into.

Again, group members please go into the group and comment in the discussion about admission rules. We've got an awesome start here and I want to keep things going in the right direction.

Things are a little crazy for me at work, so the less things I have to check for recommendations and suggestions the better. Damn computers. ;)
 
http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=405

Been a few years since I have traded, but 88-0 I hope speaks for itself :p

I like the idea of your list and I understand it doesn't replace anything I have used before to protect myself. This will just be another tool I can use to better my chances of having trouble free transactions. Thanks for taking the time.
 
You have 32 heat evals,and you want to make 100 the starting point.What makes your 32 heat evals better than anyone elses?

I also think this is a big slap in the face to any member in here.To tell someone they don't have the right to join but then take all the hardware sold and bought on here by people that don't even have close to 100 evals.

How do we know your not setting us all up for a big scam?After all,you only have 32 evals.And now that your pretty pissed about that last statement.Now think about how many people you have pissed off with that same statement.Or is it allright since it came from you.

Would anyone buy from some one with 100 evals and 0 negs?Yes they would.Just as I or you would.So what would your list prove.I can ask anyone for there heat and see how long they have been a member on this forum.And to the member that talked about getting in threw a invite just to scam someone,It would happen.If someone gets a deal of a lifetime they would send a invite to that person no problem,and the scam would be on.

There is no way to protect your self fully.Just make sure your covered under paypal or ask them to ship first.If they will not ship first avoid the sell,but if atleast settle on half now and the other half when your item has arrived.If you and seller can't agree on this then let the sell be.Move on to the next deal.
 
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Just because you have 100+ heat does not mean you go wrong, nor does it mean that someone who is green to all of this 0 heat will be a thief. All this group does is develop a huge elitist group within the trading community of traders here. Additionally, you can go through the tricks and tolls section and find countless people with 100+ feedback, 2, 3, 4 years on the forums who ripped people off. Just some food for thought on this.
 
Agreed the only trader list we need is Common Sense and the ability to use a keyboard to type in their names for a search. If you don't have that or can't use a keyboard, don't buy/sale/ or trade.....

Good Day
 
KILLER_K said:
Agreed the only trader list we need is Common Sense and the ability to use a keyboard to type in their names for a search. If you don't have that or can't use a keyboard, don't buy/sale/ or trade.....

Good Day
Click to expand...

At the end of the day there is no substitute for common sense. Just look at how easy it is to scam heatware. This is just meant to be another resource, nothing more.
 
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