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"Easy mod, drop temperatures" - WRONG!

C

codeflux

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 28, 2002
Messages
2,530
do you remember a while ago this one kid posted here, claiming that this easy mod dropped his temperatures like 10 degrees? he cut a hole in his motherboard trey behind the CPU and cut in a fan right behind that to blow fresh air directly at the back of the CPU socket.

well, i was sceptical but took notice. next time i had the motherboard off, i cut a hole in the motherboard trey as well. i thought - if nothing else, this would make it easier to adjust the waterblock mounting screws on the back of the motherboard, withough having to pull the mobo.

ok, so now i'm getting ready to cut in an 80x80x10 zalman fan, but decided to test it out first. CPU idle temperature 33C, load 43C. reading from the on-CPU diode - idle 45, load 57.

ok, so i hung the fan where it would be - blowing at the back of the motherboard. idle temps dropped to 30C. cranked up prime95 - load temperatures at 35C. WTF?! the water temperature has not changed... unplug the fan - the temperature jumps back up to 43C.

decided to switch to the on-CPU diode. FAN MAKES NO DIFFERENCE THERE. so, i conclude that the cause for the temperature drop is not because the CPU is cooled, but because the thermal probe inside the CPU socket is cooled. i tested this a couple of times, and as a result - i won't be cutting another hole in my case after all. would've been nice, though...
 
I said that time that all he was doing was to cool the thermal sensor and other people said I was wrong.

THEY ARE WRONG!! :eek: :eek:
 
Originally posted by future
I said that time that all he was doing was to cool the thermal sensor and other people said I was wrong.

THEY ARE WRONG!! :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...


Easy there fella :p
 
Originally posted by future
I said that time that all he was doing was to cool the thermal sensor and other people said I was wrong.

THEY ARE WRONG!! :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

Those dirty motherbitches....lol
 
Originally posted by codeflux
so, i conclude that the cause for the temperature drop is not because the CPU is cooled, but because the thermal probe inside the CPU socket is cooled. i tested this a couple of times, and as a result - i won't be cutting another hole in my case after all. would've been nice, though...
Click to expand...

exactly what is said to him when he posted that info.....allthough it did not take me any testing to come to that conclusion.....

but you get an "A" for effort..
 
I'd been waiting to see if anyone posted a response to the Thread That Would Not Die.

Seriously, though, even though it doesn't help core temps worth a diddly, having a hole beneath the socket is useful, especially since newer and bigger HSF units require the use of socket holes.

I wonder when mobo manufacturers will start incorporating such holes as a design feature?
 
I posted the same thing there and I was quickly "informed" I was incorrect. I've known better, so I've stayed out of the thread, but stupid people really seem to get cocky when there's a lot of them together. :p
 
Originally posted by mwarps
I posted the same thing there and I was quickly "informed" I was incorrect. I've known better, so I've stayed out of the thread, but stupid people really seem to get cocky when there's a lot of them together. :p
Click to expand...

Do you remember the thread some guy (a world renowned polisher, from a family of world renowned polishers, no less) started a while back, called "lapping, its dangers...and you," or something like that? Oh, man, now that was fun!

My officemates and I still chuckle about it.
 
Originally posted by AggieMEEN
Do you remember the thread some guy (a world renowned polisher, from a family of world renowned polishers, no less) started a while back, called "lapping, its dangers...and you," or something like that? Oh, man, now that was fun!

My officemates and I still chuckle about it.
Click to expand...

Oh I remember that one. It firmly cemented my belief that stupidity should be a federal felony.
 
why did i do all the testing? - because I WANTED TO KNOW FOR SURE. i knew the guy was wrong, but i had to try for myself. after all, what do i know... :D it's one thing to say "you're full of shit" and another thing to say "you're full of shit and i can prove it".
 
Eh he just wanted his 15 minutes of fame, much like the Jerry Springer people.
 
If The diode is cooled, then by the Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics, any object in contact with it, is also cooled. While it may not have made a difference which is measurable by the innaccurate thermal diode, then by that same principle, how would you know if it's cooling the core as much as 10C? It's highly unlikely, but I'd be wiiling to bet it's cooling the core by as much as 2C to 4C which would probably register on the diode as 10C.

The fact you've vented, and placed a fan there will, by simple Convection; drop the temp's by removing heat. In fact it's not such a bad idea. It's just as effective as adding another fan to the case, except your blowing air on the generated heat source. The air will then remove at least some portion of the kinetic energy, produced by the CPU. :)
 
All of you people, look. It's not that hard.

In the one case, the forming cause is in the body which is separated; for, after the body has been actuated by heat, it is by the reaction of the proper matter of the body, that the chasm which constitutes the variance is formed. In the other case, again, the cause is extrinsic in relation to the body in which the chasm is formed. There has been the most violent fracture and divulsion; but the cause is still to seek; and it appears not in the variance; for it is not every dislocation and convection of the solid body of the system board, in which phonons, or the proper sources of phonon, are found.

A modified quote from one James Hutton, 1785. This is a joke. Do not think too hard on the above passage.
 
Originally posted by Liquid3D
If The diode is cooled....<SNIP>....
Click to expand...

But there is the mistake. The CPU Diode is NOT cooled(not measurably at least). The fan moves the air, that cools the back of the motherboard, and that in turn cools the sensor in the middle of the socket attached to the motherboard. To cool the CPU, you will have to move the air, that cools the mobo, that triggers the mobo sensor to change, then you need that convection to cool air inside the socket, then that needs to cool the underside of the CPU, then that needs to cool the the rest of the crap all the way to the CPU diode.

While in a butterfly effect sort of way it can be declared to cool the CPU. It is about as effective as putting a cooler on your video card, and trying to measure it's effectiveness of indirectly cooling the CPU.

That being said, if there is a benifit to cooling your mobo back there, then good. Because realistically, that is all you are doing.
 
Originally posted by AggieMEEN
All of you people, look. It's not that hard.

In the one case, the forming cause is in the body which is separated; for, after the body has been actuated by heat, it is by the reaction of the proper matter of the body, that the chasm which constitutes the variance is formed. In the other case, again, the cause is extrinsic in relation to the body in which the chasm is formed. There has been the most violent fracture and divulsion; but the cause is still to seek; and it appears not in the variance; for it is not every dislocation and convection of the solid body of the system board, in which phonons, or the proper sources of phonon, are found.

A modified quote from one James Hutton, 1785. This is a joke. Do not think too hard on the above passage.
Click to expand...

Translation(?): Sometimes, shit happens. :)
 
a lot of the people posting in the original thread had said that they were taking readings off the cpu diode and not the in socket thermistor. not sure what to make of that
 
While cooling anything is always better, cooling the Mobo's socket diode will have the negative side effect of increased innacuracy in displayed temps.
 
Originally posted by cgrant26
While cooling anything is always better, cooling the Mobo's socket diode will have the negative side effect of increased innacuracy in displayed temps.
Click to expand...
BINGO! which is presicely why i decided no to proceed with this mod. while we're at it, why not put some thermal isolator (like i dunno - kevlar or foam or something) between the in-socket thermal probe and the CPU? - the temperatures would read even lower! i do not need to see 35C on load and think everything's hunky-dory (sp?), while the actual CPU temps are much much higher.
 
Originally posted by AggieMEEN
Do you remember the thread some guy (a world renowned polisher, from a family of world renowned polishers, no less) started a while back, called "lapping, its dangers...and you," or something like that? Oh, man, now that was fun!

My officemates and I still chuckle about it.
Click to expand...

rofl, i remember that one too...

-paulm
 
Originally posted by cgrant26
While cooling anything is always better, cooling the Mobo's socket diode will have the negative side effect of increased innacuracy in displayed temps.
Click to expand...

How do you know what the inaccuracy is in either case? I say either way is bad, just go by relative changes in temperature readings.
 
Originally posted by zer0signal667
How do you know what the inaccuracy is in either case? I say either way is bad, just go by relative changes in temperature readings.
Click to expand...
not exactly true. if you look at my numbers again:

fan off: idle 33, load 43 -> difference of 10 degrees.
fan on: idle 30, load 35 -> difference of 5 degrees.

i repeat, there was no difference in on-CPU diode readings, nor were there changes in the water temperatures (CPU - and GPU - are watercooled).
 
I think he mentioned (time and time againnnnn) that he used the onboard cpu diode sensor for these tests - I tried this, with a stock 60mm stock amd fan from my 2500+, load temps dropped 1-2 degrees on my onboard cpu sensor - i wouldnt mind sticking a smart fan on back there @ 75cfm to see what happens ;). Sure, if you use the mobo sensor, of course you are going to get wrong results, but jesus, my sensor gives me a 10deg difference from my onboard sensor anyway! lesson is - never trust motherboard cpu diodes, always use the onboard one!

And im sorry, if you expect drastic temp changes from ambient when you are using watercooling, you are just plain silly
 
My thought on this is while it probably wont make any difference to the cpu temps.
By cooling the back of the mobo around the cpu socket it could help cool the back of the vrm's.
If they are running cooler/ morestable it could help your overclock.

Luck........:D
 
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