Easiest to build?

Actually, I need to correct myself. The Intel board only allows overclocking with the 840 XE. not the normal D. And only the XE has hyperthreading turned on.

The biggest problem I have with AMD systems is the chipsets and motherboard vendors. They always seem to be lesser quality the Intel based boards, and plagued with more problems. I know, that will probably start a flame war... but it's what I've seen, and a quick look at the AMD forum seems to have more "issue" threads. Nvidia and ATI might actually change that.

As Kathy already pointed out, Intel built boards are the most solid and reliable. Asus is a close 2nd IMHO.
 
Thanks breetai72! Sorry I almost missed your other post. I appreciate all the info. I for sure can't afford the Extreme cpu, so that's out of the picture for me.

My only concern about AMD is it right for a person like me that doesn't know how to get the most out of it? Will it be as easy to setup as an Intel or is it for computer geeks? I really don't know for sure, it could be the same for all I know. Thanks!

Kathy
 
breetai72 said:
Not all Smithfields have hyperthreading turned on. Only the 840 does.

Despite some performance benefits, I fail to see the reason to spend nearly twice the money on a X2 ($530) over the 820 ($260). It might be a more elegant design, but it's still pricey.

The next argument might be to stick with a single core intel, but two full processors (in the 820) is better than hyperthreading any day. Especially if you're using stuff that takes advantage of the dual core. The 820 might be a little slow (in games) compared to the competition, but it's more cost effective. It's great for day to day work, and it does decent enough in games.

Oh, BTW. the Intel D955XBK does allow full overclocking, but only when the 840 D is installed. Dumb, but it works very well.
Click to expand...
My mistake about Hyperthreading enabled for the non-XE! I was not aware intel disabled such a "flagship" feature.

My recommendation for Kathy was the X2 3800+ (currently $400, but hopefully should drop closer to the MSRP of $350-370 over the next couple/few weeks), not the more expensive 4200+.

I agree, the intel 820 D would be a good choice for day to day use if costs were to be kept at a minimum. But on the other hand, the X2 is everything and more that all 8x0 D's have and has more than just *some* performance benefit over the 820 D. It downright kicks it to the curb in almost everything. To me, that's worth every penny that makes up the extra $100-150 over the intel product.

Kathy: You are absolutely right to worry about the BIOS on some motherboards. Many manufacturers have had an X2 BIOS image out for some time now, but that's still no guarantee that the motherboard you purchase will have it installed. Chances are good, depending on what brand motherboard you decide on, but it's definitely not a certainty. You can always ask the seller if they can ensure it would be before you buy.

I have heard mixed stories. Some won't POST at all while others will POST, but incorrectly recognize the cpu until the BIOS is flashed.
 
Kathy said:
Thanks breetai72! Sorry I almost missed your other post. I appreciate all the info. I for sure can't afford the Extreme cpu, so that's out of the picture for me.

My only concern about AMD is it right for a person like me that doesn't know how to get the most out of it? Will it be as easy to setup as an Intel or is it for computer geeks? I really don't know for sure, it could be the same for all I know. Thanks!

Kathy
Click to expand...
Going either intel or AMD: ease of setup all depends on what hardware you get. Stock or overclocked, you can get the most out of either if it fits your needs (we wouldn't be recommending a Celeron or Duron, as that would definitely be off the path of logic for your needs! :D )
 
This is so much harder then I thought it would be. I really want to go with the AMD but my gut feeling is to go with Intel. I'm just afraid the setup will be much harder with the AMD and I don't want to be sorry I bought it. I wish I could get both and see for myself. lol

Well I'm going to bed and think about this a little more. I thank you guys for all your help! I'm not a stupid person but I am when it comes to computers. :(

Kathy
 
Ok for the app:s and games U allready stated. The X2 4400+ or the X23800+ will be very good. What U do want tho is at least 2Gb of RAM for that photo work U do. Unless U have a Very Big monitor one 7800GTX will be enough and even a 6800gt will do the work. I play Doom3 (the most demanding I have) at 1600*1200 in high quality with my 6800gt and a 3500+ (same speed as the 4400+ but one core less :()

So a 4400+
Asus MoBo (easy to get up and working performs very good at stock but is a lousy overclocker)
2*1Gb RAM with decent timings.
1* 7800gt
OCZ PS 520

Is what I would build for U It will have U rockin'n rollin however that is not a cheap machine...

[EDIT] I just realized one thing... If U do get this system U will run the risk of not wanting to go to the office bc the puter there is not fast enough... [/EDIT]
 
That's good advice Frallan. My single core A64 at home makes me want to not come into the office everyday. Hehehe

Kathy:

What is your maximum budget for each of the following? This might help paint a picture of what would best suit your needs based on budget. (I'll put what I approximately spend on mine to give you an idea)

1. CPU ($178)
2. Motherboard ($172)
3. Video Card ($140)
4. Memory ($150)
5. Power Supply ($99)
6. Case ($100)

And, if you need them:

6. Monitor ($250)
7. Keyboard/Mouse ($100)
8. CD / DVD Drive ($72 for both)
9. Floppy Drive ($9)
10. Operating System ($0)
 
DejaWiz said:
1. CPU ($178)
2. Motherboard ($172)
3. Video Card ($140)
4. Memory ($150)
5. Power Supply ($99)
6. Case ($100)

And, if you need them:

6. Monitor ($250)
7. Keyboard/Mouse ($100)
8. CD / DVD Drive ($72 for both)
9. Floppy Drive ($9)
10. Operating System ($0)
Click to expand...

Well as Kathy (sorry to talk about U in third person :p) works alot with graphics Id up the Graphic with a couple of hundred $. From your build and lower the MoBo with about 50$. The memory will be upped and the monitor goes out (Ure keeping Ure old one right K?). Also Id spend about 200 and a little tsmallchange ;) on HDDs with that U can afford 2 times 250Gb with 16Mb Cache here and as U wont RAID the 16Mb cache is more important than SATA-2... (Well and the CPU is a 4400+ as well which ups the CPU more then a bit :( )

I realise that thats Ure build (DejaWiz) that U have there and that its about giving a feeling for costs and Im just adjusting it a bit towards the requirements.
 
I typically tell people to spend the most money on system components that most improve the apps they use. In K's case, it sounds like photoshop, outlook, etc. Some games, but not a lot (K correct me if I'm wrong).

In that case, since photoshop is used a lot, I agree with DejaWiz. Max out your memory. 2GB would be great, but 1GB ought to be enough. It depends on how big your graphic files usually are. I'd also spend more on the CPU than video card. A dual core of some kind will help photoshop a lot more than a fast video card. To my knowledge, photoshop doesn't use the card functions at all while rendering. If that ain't true, I'd like to hear how it does use the card.

In that case:
Intel 945G ATX ($119) or 945G uATX ($114)
820 D ($260)
Memory 2GB ($180-200) or 1GB ($90)

I couldn't find a equally priced Asus on newegg that supported dual cores.

In any case, the suggested systems are all about the same price. The ease of the build will depend on the person. You should go with what you're comfortable with. What's easy for us may be difficult for you. You might also stick with stuff that friends nearby also have. Then you can call them over for help when needed.
 
Frallan said:
I realise that thats Ure build (DejaWiz) that U have there and that its about giving a feeling for costs and Im just adjusting it a bit towards the requirements.
Click to expand...
No worries Frallan, that's exactly why I put my prices there, so we could all take a look at it and make adjustments to each components' price.

Kathy, as soon as you list your max budget for each component, then we can start recommending best components that will fit your needs at those price ranges.


(Doh! I forgot the damn hard drives....)
 
breetai72 said:
In that case:
Intel 945G ATX ($119) or 945G uATX ($114)
820 D ($260)
Memory 2GB ($180-200) or 1GB ($90)
Click to expand...
820D to last 3-4 years keeping possible future apps/games in mind? Video card recommendation to go with it?

I'm starting to feel like a broken record, endlessly repeating myself (read last line in sig):
1. The intel dual core is a joke. Here's why:
2. It draws lots of power.
3. Makes lots of heat.
4. Is slower than the primary competitions dual core offerings.
5. When you compare an intel dual core that comes close to the performance of even an X2 3800+, it's pricetag will be in the $1000 range.
6. AMD X2 with DDR1 and integrated memory controller will whip a 8x0D with external mem controller and DDR2 when it comes to programs like photoshop.
7. Read the comparison article I linked earlier to see all of this.
8. Any questions?
 
DejaWiz said:
820D to last 3-4 years keeping possible future apps/games in mind? Video card recommendation to go with it?

I'm starting to feel like a broken record, endlessly repeating myself (read last line in sig):
1. The intel dual core is a joke. Here's why:
2. It drawns lots of power.
3. Makes lots of heat.
4. Is slower than the primary competitions dual core offerings.
5. When you compare an intel dual core that comes close to the performance of even an X2 3800+, it's pricetag will be in the $1000 range.
6. AMD X2 with DDR1 and integrated memory controller will whip a 8x0D with external mem controller and DDR2 when it comes to programs like photoshop.
7. Read the comparison article I linked earlier to see all of this.
8. Any questions?
Click to expand...

And to add some more fuel to ^^ that ^^ fire read this Its quite some reading to do but it explaines Very well why Intel Dual Cores is not the way to go. Aginst P4s w. HT I have only one reservatio and that is that they are expensive.
 
Kathy, I myself had the same problem that u have
Stay Intel, or go AMD.

I have chosen AMD, and are very happy with it,tho its only a Single Core 64 i have.
Assembling and setting it up to run perfectly didnt take ANY more time then my previous build,which was an Intel system.

I,personally, think that AMD at this moment, kick's Intel's @ss at almost everything, but videoediting,and at a far better price/performance point too.

If you decide you want to go Intel, its your money, but dont get scared of AMD, just because people overclock it.
YOU dont have to,so you wont run into the troubles they may have.

That said, I am not an expert PC user, and have succesfully overclocked my 3000 Venice core to about 2500 MHZ, so Im getting some free performance,without any problems.


Videocard would be down to preferance as well, as both Nvidia and ATI have cards out at the moment that fit your needs, and are about the same amount of $$$.

Personally i would go for a 6800 GT or so, because heavier cards are overkill for your uses.
Like some1 above stated, Photoshop, and other image/photo editing apps, dont actually use all features of the card.
(The Intel System i had, first had Integrated Video, and when i got a Videocard for it, I only noticed the differance in benchmarks and games, other apps (including Photoshop and PSP) didnt profit from the card at all.

So a SLI setup is way overkill,but you can use a SLI board with 1 Graphics card (to add a second card when u feel u need it)
Problem is, that u need to find the same card to be able to use SLI,and im not sure they will still be available in 2 or 3 years.
If u cant find the same card then, you have trown away the price-premium you pay now,as a SLI board is about 40-50$ more expensive then the non-SLI equal.
 
Wow, you guys are just so nice!!! I was so shocked to see all these post. I appreciate this so much, I really really do!

OK, here's my logical way of thinking which my boss says scares the heck out of him. lol

But anyway, the MB and the CPU I'm willing to spend over my budget on because I want them to last the longest. I figure everything else can be upgraded pretty easy down the road if need be. So on these two things I don't mind spending more on. It's OK too, if it's more then I need, I figure I might grow into it over the next couple of years so I may as well over kill it now and have it when and if I need it. So you don't have to worry if it's more then I need right now, I want more then I need on these two things. I might even overkill the Video card. :)

1. Motherboard as much as $275.00
2. CPU as much as $500.00
3. Video card keep under $450.00
4. Hard drives (2) under $175.00 each.
5..Power supply under $175.00
6. Memory I'm not sure about. $300.00?

The case will be a hard one to pick, so if need be I'll do another post for that. But I'm thinking about a nice aluminum one. I do have a monitor that will work for now and I plan on that being my Christmas gift to myself. lol So if you want to wait on that then I'll do another post for it to, but if you already know a good one I'd like to hear it?

If I had to spend a little more on any of the stuff because it would make a big difference then I would. So you can see I want a nice system this time and I'm willing to overkill my needs to get it. This computer is for my home office but it will be used for games also. But the IRS doesn't have to know that. lol

If I left something out just ask? Oh, and like I said before, I don't want raid hard drives. But I think the Sata drives are a good idea. Not sure what Raptor drives are or if I should go that way? I also think the SLI Mb will be a good idea.

Thanks again everyone, you have no idea how much I appreciate all this!!!

Kathy
 
CPU: X2 3800+ ....................$405
Motherboard: EPoX ($138) or Gigabyte ($158; damn I paid 172!) or Asus ($165 after instant rebate) or DFI ($169)
Video Card: eVGA 7800GTX (now carries lifetime warranty) $504
Hard Drives: Samsung 200GB (SATA-300; has 3 yr warranty - Newegg typo) $107 each
PSU: PCP&C 510-SLI (currently the highest rated in the industry) $219
Memory: 2GB kit (rebranded PQI memory - decent enough stuff) $200

The Total you specified: $2050
Total of above components: $1680 to 1711

Check out Newegg's Antec and Thermaltake aluminum case selections. They all have great airflow and room.
 
Thanks DejaWiz! That looks very nice for sure. But I do have a couple of questions about it, are you shocked? lol

1. I like the looks of the Asus board best and it seems to get good reviews. But lets say 2 years down the road I want a bigger CPU like the the X2 4400 or X24800, (when the price comes down) will it handle those?

2. Samsung 200gig HD? I'm not sure I need two 200 gig hard drives, do they make the same (Samsung) in say 100 or 120 gig? Also, should both of them be the same size?

3. Rosewill Memory? You stated "It's good enough" What would be the next step up in better memory?

4. 7800GTX Video card? I only ask about this because you have been saying all along to get the 6800GTX card and most of the other post I've read like the 6800 too. I've not seen much on the 7800. Is this because it's a much better card or because I said I might overkill this too? Just making sure. :)

I think thats it and thank you so much!

Kathy
 
Kathy said:
Thanks DejaWiz! That looks very nice for sure. But I do have a couple of questions about it, are you shocked? lol

1. I like the looks of the Asus board best and it seems to get good reviews. But lets say 2 years down the road I want a bigger CPU like the the X2 4400 or X24800, (when the price comes down) will it handle those?

2. Samsung 200gig HD? I'm not sure I need two 200 gig hard drives, do they make the same (Samsung) in say 100 or 120 gig? Also, should both of them be the same size?

3. Rosewill Memory? You stated "It's good enough" What would be the next step up in better memory?

4. 7800GTX Video card? I only ask about this because you have been saying all along to get the 6800GTX card and most of the other post I've read like the 6800 too. I've not seen much on the 7800. Is this because it's a much better card or because I said I might overkill this too? Just making sure. :)

I think thats it and thank you so much!

Kathy
Click to expand...
1. Absolutely!

2. No, they don't have to be the same size since you don't need a raid setup. Here's a list of all the SATA-300 drives at Newegg. I like the Samsung's because they have Native Command Queuing and a decent warranty. Any brand would do the job fine, however.

3. Corsair or Kingston Value line. They are all around the same price range for the more inexpensive memory. Again, you won't need the super expensive enthusiast stuff, it's a waste with the A64's integrated memory controller.

4. It'll last you the longest. Power of one 7800GTX = roughly two 6800GTs/Ultras in SLI. That 1 will draw less power than 2 of the older cards in SLI. I picked the 7800GTX for you because it still fit in the total budget you listed. And since you would like it to last and you plan on using the machine to "casually" (wink, wink) game on....;) If you feel it's too much cash and you want the 6800GT instead, here's a nice one.

Keep the questions coming! I (like just about everyone here) am happy to help!
Besides, you're in Michigan and I like to look out for my own kind! Hehehe
 
OK, this is starting to sound really good to me! I have to make up my mind by tomorrow night because if I do get that CPU it sounds like I'll have to wait for them to come in. I just hope I don't have to wait long.

What speed P4 would this compare to? I'm just curious because 2.0 gig doesn't sound like a lot to me. It better be faster then my 2.2gig I have now! lol

Thanks again! And if anyone has would like to post there thoughts or opinions I would love to hear them. :)

Kathy
 
Kathy said:
OK, this is starting to sound really good to me! I have to make up my mind by tomorrow night because if I do get that CPU it sounds like I'll have to wait for them to come in. I just hope I don't have to wait long.

What speed P4 would this compare to? I'm just curious because 2.0 gig doesn't sound like a lot to me. It better be faster then my 2.2gig I have now! lol

Thanks again! And if anyone has would like to post there thoughts or opinions I would love to hear them. :)

Kathy
Click to expand...
Well, judging by the comparisons in the article, the X2 3800+ is roughly about the same as the P4 XE 840, and manages to beat out even the 3.73GHz in many many tests. Both are $1000+ cpu's.
 
Yup. One thing you have to keep in mind is, AMD, and Intel have a different architecture. Thats why AMD's have the ratings with them, such as 3800+, 4400+ etc. Its just a guide to tell you what it is like in comparison with others.
 
Kathy said:
What speed P4 would this compare to? I'm just curious because 2.0 gig doesn't sound like a lot to me. It better be faster then my 2.2gig I have now! lol

Kathy
Click to expand...



Seems like everyone has got in all the important info so I will just address this question, keeping it non technical as to no confuse you with geek talk :D

The AMD processors are better designed and also contain hardware built into them that allows them to run fast at lower temps. They comunicate better with the FSB (Front Side Bus) or HTT as its known NForce 4 boards. Intel CPUs are just brute power houses but they have high temp downsides. A AMD 64bit 3500+ (2.2 Ghz) CPU will run just as fast as a P4 3.2Ghz CPU.
 
Well that's pretty dang good then! Now is that after overclocking it or right out of the box? Do you know if newegg is one of those places that will update the bios for me when I buy there MB? I don't mind paying for it just for the peace of mind. ;)

Kathy
 
Right out of the box!

And no sorry NG wont do that for you, but you are in the right forum to get the help you need!

There are more than enough walk-throughs list in this forum to give you step-by-step instructions on how to do it.

Also tons of people would be happy to help you out!

Its not too hard on these new motherboards, my ASUS A8N SLI - Deluxe was a cake walk!
 
Thanks guys for that explanation, it helps a lot! I guess it's time to give AMD a try and see if you guys really know what your talking about, I know how much you guys like to brag so it worries me a little. lol j/k

Kathy
 
Thanks DejaWiz! I'll be keeping an eye on that post for sure! :)

Kathy
 
Well it's looking up! That one guy has the Asus board I want and he said it posted fine. :)
 
Looks like the nf4 boards have no problems with POST. Seems the nf2 (maybe nf3) have the biggest problems.
 
Thanks DejaWiz! That's good to know. :)

I wanted ask you, is there any real advantage to running two video cards at this point or is that more for future games? I don't have the money now for two cards anyway but I was still curious if there are games that can take advantage of it already? Thanks!
 
Kathy said:
Thanks DejaWiz! That's good to know.
smile.gif


I wanted ask you, is there any real advantage to running two video cards at this point or is that more for future games? I don't have the money now for two cards anyway but I was still curious if there are games that can take advantage of it already? Thanks!
Click to expand...
It really depends on the cards being used. For instance, two 6600GTs in SLI have a hard time keeping up with a single 6800GT or Ultra. Two 6800GTs in SLI offer about the same performance as a single 7800GTX.
So, two 7800GTX in SLI =
biggrin.gif
eek.gif
biggrin.gif
eek.gif
biggrin.gif
eek.gif
biggrin.gif
eek.gif
biggrin.gif


Almost every game today can take advantage of SLI in some way or another, but with a very very fast single card for now, it'll run everything fine. When future games that stress a video card start cropping up, then you can entertain the idea of either 1.) adding a 2nd identical card for SLI goodness, or 2.) sell it and put that money towards buying a single card from the next generation if it's proven to be faster than the would-be SLI setup.
 
Got it! :)

Well I'm going to bed now. I've been at the hospital all night with a friend, she was in a bad accident but is going to be fine. I'm tired! Good night all.
 
nite K

My thoughts and best wishes for you and your friend in the hospital.
 
Thanks! I picked her up this morning and she's doing fine, just has a big bump on her head. :)

Hey, will I need any sort of special cooling fans for that cpu, video card, or case? I was looking at some of the setups in the case forum and it looks like there's a heat war going on or something. I sure hope this thing won't be loud? Thanks!

Kathy
 
Kathy said:
Hey, will I need any sort of special cooling fans for that cpu, video card, or case? I was looking at some of the setups in the case forum and it looks like there's a heat war going on or something. I sure hope this thing won't be loud? Thanks!

Kathy
Click to expand...
No, it's won't be a jet engine at all. The Antec LanBot and the Thermaltake Tsunami/Shark cases use 120mm fans that move a good amount of air while remaining fairly quiet. My new system with two 120mm fans is about half as loud as my old one using six 80mm fans in the case alone. You won't need any special fans unless you're going for an overclocking record. ;)
 
OK Thanks! My girlfriends brother has an AMD that I can hear getting out of my car in the front of there house, just wanted to make sure that's not what I'm getting into. :D

Kathy
 
In all honesty, do you feel comfortable with all the choices for components so far? I only ask this because I want to make sure you are going to be getting everything that you want (and then some) for the money. Simply on the grounds of no remorse, no regrets.
 
Hi DejaWiz!

And yes, I'm very comfortable with the choices! I think you've been honest and have given me suggestion that you truly feel are good ones. I've been paying attention to the number of views this post has had, and with well over 900 views no one seems to be stepping up to dis-agree with you. So this tells me that there must be a lot of people that feel the same way you do, because I know on forums people will really jump in your face if they feel your giving bad advice or just dis-agree with you. It also tells me theres a lot of people learning from these post and just leaving it up to me to ask all the questions, lol.

You've stuck with me and haven't even one time made me feel stupid or talked down to me. I think you're a caring person that just likes to help others and I thank you so much for being that type of person! And if something goes wrong or I end up with a lemon and things don't work out, you don't have to worry, I understand that and won't feel you didn't know what you were talking about. And besides, I know you'll buy it from me if it doesn't work. lol j/k

And now for my last two questions (I think) lol. Most new computers don't come with a floppy drive anymore and I use one a lot at work. Do you know if that ASUS MB has a spot to hook one up or will I have to buy a stand alone unit? Also, I'll be needing a DVD and CDRW, is it better to buy both or is the all in one units good enough?

Thanks again!

Kathy
 
All motherboards still have floppy connectors built-in, although all the good ones also have the ability to boot from CD or USB drive.

I prefer all-in-one drives to seperate drives, particularly because most of the DVD burners out now are less than 50 bucks and just as fast as burners that only accept CDs.
 
finalgt said:
All motherboards still have floppy connectors built-in, although all the good ones also have the ability to boot from CD or USB drive.

I prefer all-in-one drives to seperate drives, particularly because most of the DVD burners out now are less than 50 bucks and just as fast as burners that only accept CDs.
Click to expand...

Thanks finalgt!

appreciate the info! That's pretty good then, I paid over $100. for the last CDRW I bought a couple of years ago. :)

Kathy
 
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