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Early Fermi Benchmarks

DualOwn said:
i know what you trying to say but it cant be changed the way you want it to look like.

there is always going to be the fastest single gpu and fastest dual gpu on the market.
Click to expand...

No there isn't, ATI made that mistake with the 2900XT, and NV made the same mistake with fermi, I don't think either company are willing to make that mistake again.

both SLI and XFire are now at a point where scaling is great, it's cheaper and more profitable to go the route ATI did, which is why NV will eventually follow suite.
 
DaFox said:
I think its pretty fair, split second drops to low frame rates don't affect the average by much at all. Its just funny to me that they have to point it out specifically.
Click to expand...

I would prefer bench's of playable settings, I'm not going to run any video card I buy at a resolution where the game is no longer playable :p
 
WorldExclusive said:
Features become more important when Nvidia does it.
Having to buy two cards for three monitors hurts the customer because most will only be able to buy one card at launch.
ATI users with Eyefinity setups will probably pass up on Fermi because of this.
Click to expand...

It probably will hurt sales in the short term, making people buy dual cards for Eyefinity (yes, I'm refusing to call multi-screen gaming nV's rebrand). However, if having a dual card setup and running multi-screens is easier on nV, it will be good for the enthusiast with deeper pockets.

Irrespective of price, I, for example, would rather have a set up that is self-contained that scales well than a multi-card solution that requires an expensive half-broken dongle adapter that only makes use of a single GPU in a lot of games. I'm just sick of my third screen flashing on and off every 2 minutes...
 
harmattan said:
Yea... exactly. I would have went for a hamster reference here myself :eek:

I think his point was nVidia will have to come with some serious performance if they want to sell any cards -- a point I don't necessarily agree with.

nV will do fine on sales, even if they don't kill in performance and are overpriced. Fanboys will buy them and others will buy them for their supposed unique features (tessellation, CUDA, Physx). If they are able to one-up ATI and make using three screens easier and better scaling for multi-screen gaming (without a $100 dongle), they'll sell even more. Isn't SLI supposed to work with multi-screen gaming with the same scaling as a single screen out of the box? I might buy a pair of 480s in this case.
Click to expand...

My point was NV will have to come with some serious performance if they want to sell me a card.


and

maybe we should turn down the fanboy radar down a bit, shall we?
Click to expand...
that made me laf cause he said "down" twice and i drank beer
 
harmattan said:
Yea... exactly. I would have went for a hamster reference here myself :eek:

I think his point was nVidia will have to come with some serious performance if they want to sell any cards -- a point I don't necessarily agree with.

nV will do fine on sales, even if they don't kill in performance and are overpriced. Fanboys will buy them and others will buy them for their supposed unique features (tessellation, CUDA, Physx). If they are able to one-up ATI and make using three screens easier and better scaling for multi-screen gaming (without a $100 dongle), they'll sell even more. Isn't SLI supposed to work with multi-screen gaming with the same scaling as a single screen out of the box? I might buy a pair of 480s in this case.
Click to expand...


Tessellation is not a Nvidia only feature, when are people going to realize this?
 
harmattan said:
Fanboys will buy them and others will buy them for their supposed unique features (tessellation, CUDA, Physx).
Click to expand...
lols.
I like when ppl are throwing words around without knowing what they actually mean or what they do. Usually used as a knockout argument.
But.. but.. it has CUDA!!! ... and Tessellation!!!11



Latter is quite hilarious.
 
x800 pro has tesselation capability right?, so therefore x800 > gtx280 :p

Seriously you just have to know what battles to fight and nvidia having tesselation is not unique in anyway.
 
shansoft said:
how are they super expensive?

they are cheaper than a 2 x 5870 with binned GPU, I really don't think its that expensive...
Click to expand...

$700 is expensive for a videocard (relatively speaking). Comparing it to the cost of two other items is irrelevant since the other two cards are not the items in question. Besides that, is the 5970 is made up of 2x 5850s and not 2x 5870s?
 
No, it's 2x5870s at 5850 clocks to keep it under 300w TDP. It easily overclocks to 5870 speeds anyway.
 
I have a question.

Let's say it's 18 months in the future and tessellation is a big deal now. I've read that the 5870 is struggling a bit with tessellation.

But if I were to buy a 5870 right now (which I might do actually), and then another one, say, 12 months from now, and run the two cards in crossfire, would tessellation benefit from that? Or is this tessellation thing confined to one card, like PhysX?

EDIT: By the way, how do the games Stalker Call Of Pripyat and Bad Company 2 look in DX11 mode? Are we talking noticeable differences here, or is it like DX10, in that you can barely notice any difference at all... some people might even remove the word 'barely'... in most games that support DX10 I can't tell the difference at all.
 
AceCR42 said:
No, it's 2x5870s at 5850 clocks to keep it under 300w TDP. It easily overclocks to 5870 speeds anyway.
Click to expand...


Ahh, ok. Thanks for the clarification.

I am thinking I might go with a 5870 and then add another later if I need one.
 
WabeWalker said:
I have a question.

Let's say it's 18 months in the future and tessellation is a big deal now. I've read that the 5870 is struggling a bit with tessellation.

But if I were to buy a 5870 right now (which I might do actually), and then another one, say, 12 months from now, and run the two cards in crossfire, would tessellation benefit from that? Or is this tessellation thing confined to one card, like PhysX?

EDIT: By the way, how do the games Stalker Call Of Pripyat and Bad Company 2 look in DX11 mode? Are we talking noticeable differences here, or is it like DX10, in that you can barely notice any difference at all... some people might even remove the word 'barely'... in most games that support DX10 I can't tell the difference at all.
Click to expand...
Not sure if any of the DX11 benchmark programs have CF support? If they do, someone running CF 5870s should be able to tell if a boost to tessellation performance is gained.
 
WabeWalker said:
I have a question.

Let's say it's 18 months in the future and tessellation is a big deal now. I've read that the 5870 is struggling a bit with tessellation.

But if I were to buy a 5870 right now (which I might do actually), and then another one, say, 12 months from now, and run the two cards in crossfire, would tessellation benefit from that? Or is this tessellation thing confined to one card, like PhysX?

EDIT: By the way, how do the games Stalker Call Of Pripyat and Bad Company 2 look in DX11 mode? Are we talking noticeable differences here, or is it like DX10, in that you can barely notice any difference at all... some people might even remove the word 'barely'... in most games that support DX10 I can't tell the difference at all.
Click to expand...

Tessellation is not like PhysX. It's just some interesting stuff that gets mostly done in the HS and DS. It's invoked for every frame for every primitive that uses it. Since crossfire works in AFR these days, there's really no reason at all it wouldn't work on both cards.

As for how noticeable it is... well it that totally depends on the developer. It costs extra development time to create assets that will tessellate nicely. Games that have already been released or are releasing right now were already in development before the DX11 SDK was available, so they've only really had time to add tessellation here and there. So games like Stalker:CoP don't show any huge differences.

Perhaps sometime in the next few years we will see more titles that create all their art assets with tessellation in mind right from the start, which will result in games that appear a little bit more like the Heaven benchmark.

In the end, of course, there's nothing tessellation that does can't be done with really high-polygon models. The whole point of tessellation is to achieve that level of detail for less performance cost.
 
Kaldskryke said:
In the end, of course, there's nothing tessellation that does can't be done with really high-polygon models. The whole point of tessellation is to achieve that level of detail for less performance cost.
Click to expand...

Do you know why this is so? I mean, why is it less GPU consuming to use tesselation rather than simply having the card process those polygons normally?
 
Kowan said:
Not sure if any of the DX11 benchmark programs have CF support? If they do, someone running CF 5870s should be able to tell if a boost to tessellation performance is gained.
Click to expand...

Here is a 5830 in crossfire on Unigine, looks like its twice as fast as one 5830.

from tweaktown.
3170_22.png
 
Thanks for posting that, Sinistar. I figured it would scale well, but wasn't sure if it had CF support. :)
 
Sure nvidia has now "caught up", but now ATI is going to refresh in about 2 months with a 5890, then they are really screwed.

nvidia is has to pull another 6000 series and jump 2 generations a head to beat ATI again.
 
Sinistar said:
Here is a 5830 in crossfire on Unigine, looks like its twice as fast as one 5830.

from tweaktown.
3170_22.png
Click to expand...
Hmm, looks to actually be MORE THAN twice as fast as one 5830. Not sure how that is happening. Does anyone know how FPS is converted to the score?
 
DontBeEvil said:
lols.
I like when ppl are throwing words around without knowing what they actually mean or what they do. Usually used as a knockout argument.
But.. but.. it has CUDA!!! ... and Tessellation!!!11



Latter is quite hilarious.
Click to expand...

my point was, regardless of whether those features are actual benefits, some people will buy them just because the box has more special feature stickers on it. Cuda is worthless for most, physx is not used in most games and it's subjective if it actually improves the game experience. Yes, tessellation can be done by ati, but it looks to be dwarved by fermi -- it hasn't been implemented yet to any degree in games, nor will it be for a while. nV knows these empty features will sell cards and drum them up with marketing and tech demos every chance they get, especially now that they have a late card that it seems underperforms where they need it.
 
It's cheaper to go Eyefinity than one 30" monitor, so I rather see more multi-monitor reviews like Kyle does.
Will Nvidia hold benchmarks until the day of launch hoping customers buy on the brand itself?
 
That's usually how launches go. NDA is lifted hardware gets listed for sale and we see reviews.
 
harmattan said:
Yea... exactly. I would have went for a hamster reference here myself :eek:

I think his point was nVidia will have to come with some serious performance if they want to sell any cards -- a point I don't necessarily agree with.

nV will do fine on sales, even if they don't kill in performance and are overpriced. Fanboys will buy them and others will buy them for their supposed unique features (tessellation, CUDA, Physx). If they are able to one-up ATI and make using three screens easier and better scaling for multi-screen gaming (without a $100 dongle), they'll sell even more. Isn't SLI supposed to work with multi-screen gaming with the same scaling as a single screen out of the box? I might buy a pair of 480s in this case.
Click to expand...


I'd say the majority of people out there don't have 3 monitors of the same size and resolution. So if you want eyeinfinty I'm going to assume the majority will need to buy at least 1 new monitor and there are $200-$300 monitors that have displayport inputs. Thus for the majority of people you don't have to buy a $100 dongle.

So Lets just say for the sake of easy numbers. For dx 11 + 3 screen gaming.

5850 $300 + 3x300 fr the monitors . Thats $1200 .
470 $300 x2 + 3x300 = $1500

5870 $380 + 3x300 = $1280
4870 $400x2 + 3x300 = $1700

It seems to me that the ati solution is less expensive. Which is great for the consumer.
 
pasta4u said:
I'd say the majority of people out there don't have 3 monitors of the same size and resolution. So if you want eyeinfinty I'm going to assume the majority will need to buy at least 1 new monitor and there are $200-$300 monitors that have displayport inputs. Thus for the majority of people you don't have to buy a $100 dongle.

So Lets just say for the sake of easy numbers. For dx 11 + 3 screen gaming.

5850 $300 + 3x300 fr the monitors . Thats $1200 .
470 $300 x2 + 3x300 = $1500

5870 $380 + 3x300 = $1280
4870 $400x2 + 3x300 = $1700

It seems to me that the ati solution is less expensive. Which is great for the consumer.
Click to expand...

You forgot the cost of buying an SLI motherboard. Compared to ATI where you just need 1 PCI-E slot and 1 video card.

So you need to add more $$$ to that
 
DASHlT said:
You forgot the cost of buying an SLI motherboard. Compared to ATI where you just need 1 PCI-E slot and 1 video card.

So you need to add more $$$ to that
Click to expand...
If you are going with an Intel motherboard, pretty much any motherboard worth mentioning for the Core i5/i7 have SLI.
 
DASHlT said:
You forgot the cost of buying an SLI motherboard. Compared to ATI where you just need 1 PCI-E slot and 1 video card.

So you need to add more $$$ to that
Click to expand...

I wanted to keep out subjective things though like

1) Sli how much is the average price diffrence between sli and non sli ? I don't want to take the time to figure that out and if i did a quick search on newegg i'm sure someone would find something cheaper after i posted and call me a fanboy

2) How about power supply. How much of a bigger power supply do you need for two gtx 470s or 480s ?

3) Cooling. How much more cooling do you need in a case to cool two 470s or 480s vs a 5870 or 5850

4) Since the gtx 470 uss more power (222watts ? vs 188) whats the added power cost from the grid going to cost.


I also didn't bring up the 5770. Its a single card but I don't feel its fast enough to drive a decent monitor so unless you want like 3 19inch or lower screens its not worth while. Though one could allways buy a 5770 and go eyeinfinty for the few games its fast enough to run and later upgrade to a second 5770 or a 5850 or 5870 or what have you.


Thats why I like ati's verison a bit better. It gives you more flexiblity.

My problem is I have a 24 inch monitor thats 1920x1200. I can't find any with that res anymore. I also have a 22inch 1680x1050. So for me I have to go buy new monitors. But I also have a 4850. So my plan is to upgrade to a 5850 hopefully after fermi and a price drop. I can enjoy dx 11 games just fine and then slowly replace my curent monitors.

My one saving grace is my monitor will display 1080p just fine as a native res. So I can buy two new monitors as I can afford it and go eyeinfinty.

Nvidia's is more costly cause therei s allways that second card involved.
 
siliconnerd said:
If you are going with an Intel motherboard, pretty much any motherboard worth mentioning for the Core i5/i7 have SLI.
Click to expand...

True, but you dont NEED the more expensive I5/I7 mobos with SLI to run eyefinity with ATI.
 
DASHlT said:
True, but you dont NEED the more expensive I5/I7 mobos with SLI to run eyefinity with ATI.
Click to expand...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188060 SLI motherboards are dirt cheap now that Intel forced Nvidia to license the tech for the P55/X58 platforms. If going Intel, the extra cost of SLI is a non-issue. Going with AMD does make doing SLI difficult with SLI support pretty much dead for the platform. That said the cost of SLI video cards and the needed upgraded video card are enough to make the Nvidia solution much more expensive.
 
siliconnerd said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188060 SLI motherboards are dirt cheap now that Intel forced Nvidia to license the tech for the P55/X58 platforms. If going Intel, the extra cost of SLI is a non-issue. Going with AMD does make doing SLI difficult with SLI support pretty much dead for the platform. That said the cost of SLI video cards and the needed upgraded video card are enough to make the Nvidia solution much more expensive.
Click to expand...

Do you really see someone buying 2 Fermi cards even the 470's for that motherboard?

I mean true you can save money...but if you are buying SLI, you are probably going all out on $$.

Still kinda shocked SLI for $100. They are only 8x slots....but still SLI is SLI.
 
I feel like people are forgetting that the 470/480 SHOULD be faster than AMD's current 5xxx line. The 5850/5870 came out in September 09, it's March 2010, a whole 6 months...in the graphics industry 6 months is practically a third of a generation. Given that graphics power about doubles every generation (18 months), I would clearly expect a ~30% overall performance increase. Given the price premium associated with the new cards, I feel I'll end up with a 5870 instead of a fermi.
 
Crispy002 said:
I feel like people are forgetting that the 470/480 SHOULD be faster than AMD's current 5xxx line. The 5850/5870 came out in September 09, it's March 2010, a whole 6 months...in the graphics industry 6 months is practically a third of a generation. Given that graphics power about doubles every generation (18 months), I would clearly expect a ~30% overall performance increase. Given the price premium associated with the new cards, I feel I'll end up with a 5870 instead of a fermi.
Click to expand...

I don't honestly think the 5870's were that impressive from a performance point of view. Lack of competition along with DX11/eyefinity hype is what made the card a success. There are quite a few cases where you can best the current gen even using old tech. Something like a pair of GTX260's is still extremely competitive with a 5870 and even my quad crossfire setup using cards nearly 2 years old gives me 5970 level performance in games that scale well. Compare that to when the 4870 was released. In many cases a single 4870 was faster than dual 3870x2's in quad crossfire.
 
GotNoRice said:
Something like a pair of GTX260's is still extremely competitive with a 5870 and even my quad crossfire setup using cards nearly 2 years old gives me 5970 level performance in games that scale well. Compare that to when the 4870 was released. In many cases a single 4870 was faster than dual 3870x2's in quad crossfire.
Click to expand...

Thats generally how it works... like the guy that you quoted said "Given that graphics power about doubles every generation (18 months)" You're comparing SLI (so basically about double the graphics power) to a single card.

Guess what, my 8800GTS640's in SLI were extremely competitive with the GTX200 series, omg!
 
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