Early Fermi Benchmarks

[Doodies]

I really dont see any difference in this game with tessellation on

can anyone tell a difference?

Look at the strap on the little pouch located on his arm, it has much more detail and depth. without tesselation it looks very flat.

 

[shansoft]

Look at the strap on the little pouch located on his arm, it has much more detail and depth. without tesselation it looks very flat.

but at the same time the texture is very blur with tessellation...

 

[BravO)))]

Finding tessellation on that picture is like where's Waldo.

 

[DeadSkull]

Is Fermi out yet? I'm bored.

 

[R1P5AW]

Fermi runs wayy too hot for me. I read that all fermi cards run hotter than a 5970

 

[GoldenTiger]

Fermi runs wayy too hot for me. I read that all fermi cards run hotter than a 5970

I read that it performs like, like, 20% better than a 5970, too! Oh and I also read you're wrong, that it runs cooler than a 5870 while doing so!

 

[Crazylegs77]

I read that it performs like, like, 20% better than a 5970, too! Oh and I also read you're wrong, that it runs cooler than a 5870 while doing so!

Did your pet unicorn tell you this top secret info?!

 

[Michaelius]

I imagine that by now you guys have seen the Metro 2033 benchmarks - in DX 11, at 1920x1080 the ATI cards appear to be struggling with tessellation. This is especially true when 4xAA is enabled, and when depth-of-field is turned on.

In that one benchmark for the 5850 it registered 11 frames per second.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the GTX 480 is released - will it tessellate better, and will it actually make a difference in the visuals? Obviously there's no point in having better tessellation results if you can't actually make out the difference while playing the game. The numbers aren't always everything.

I'm on the fence right now - should I get a 5970 if I can find one, or should I buy the single GPU GTX 480? My GTX 275 is performing amazingly well, but I'd like to try to stay ahead of the curve this time out. Tough decision here.

I think it's probably more prudent to wait for some concrete GTX 480 reviews before deciding.

You are happy with GTX 275 so waiting is logical choice:
let's say GTX 480 doesn't show significant advantages you lose nothing
let's say GTX 480 shows some adventages you can judge it resonably and then making informed choice beetween those two.

 

[MrLonghair]

Look at the strap on the little pouch located on his arm, it has much more detail and depth. without tesselation it looks very flat.

No dude, the one with tessellation is the image on the bottom

 

[PrincessFrosty]

And as to physics in BC2, it is prescripted. No matter what you use to bring a building down, it ALWAYS looks the same. Boring halfassed crap.

In BC2s defence the physics aren't as scripted as some people would have you believe. While the chunks you can take out of material is definitely scripted as with pretty much any physics solution including all PhysX I've seen so far, actually a lot is dynamic.

The particles that fly out of buildings appear to be calculated by physics, most of the small ones do not collide with the ground so the amount of debris that is actually left behind is manageable for the CPU. Some of the larger materials blown up do leave behind objects, sandbag walls seem to leave behind the odd sandbag on the landscape, and when vehicles blow up they send large panels of armour and parts flying off into the map.

Some objects are static until disrupted with enough force, for example the trees can break in multiple places, if you shoot off the top then the top will become a free form physics object and fall on the ground and provide cover, if you shoot the same tree at the base the whole tree will collapse over. Once trees are free form they can stop small quad bikes in their path, but large tanks will run over them or push them out of the way.

Buildings do appear scripted at first but from casual observation of games it does appear that the state the building is in before it's destroyed effects it's ability to collapse. You don't need to totally gut the building to collapse it, you can take out all of the roof panels and 1st floor walls and leave a lot of the bottom floor walls in place and when it collapses these walls will remain. The falling pieces of building certainly do not ignore these walls they collapse correctly with pieces leaning on them, yet these walls themselves are dynamic and can be blow off the structure which makes me think that either the collapse is dynamic and maybe has some parameters to make it collapse neatly in its own footprint each time or that if it's scripted (animated) it's got many scripted possibilities based on what parts of the structure are left when it collapses (that's a lot of combinations)

I'll do some testing with this tonight If I dont drink too much Guinnes

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

In BC2s defence the physics aren't as scripted as some people would have you believe. While the chunks you can take out of material is definitely scripted as with pretty much any physics solution including all PhysX I've seen so far, actually a lot is dynamic.

The particles that fly out of buildings appear to be calculated by physics, most of the small ones do not collide with the ground so the amount of debris that is actually left behind is manageable for the CPU. Some of the larger materials blown up do leave behind objects, sandbag walls seem to leave behind the odd sandbag on the landscape, and when vehicles blow up they send large panels of armour and parts flying off into the map.

Some objects are static until disrupted with enough force, for example the trees can break in multiple places, if you shoot off the top then the top will become a free form physics object and fall on the ground and provide cover, if you shoot the same tree at the base the whole tree will collapse over. Once trees are free form they can stop small quad bikes in their path, but large tanks will run over them or push them out of the way.

Buildings do appear scripted at first but from casual observation of games it does appear that the state the building is in before it's destroyed effects it's ability to collapse. You don't need to totally gut the building to collapse it, you can take out all of the roof panels and 1st floor walls and leave a lot of the bottom floor walls in place and when it collapses these walls will remain. The falling pieces of building certainly do not ignore these walls they collapse correctly with pieces leaning on them, yet these walls themselves are dynamic and can be blow off the structure which makes me think that either the collapse is dynamic and maybe has some parameters to make it collapse neatly in its own footprint each time or that if it's scripted (animated) it's got many scripted possibilities based on what parts of the structure are left when it collapses (that's a lot of combinations)

I'll do some testing with this tonight If I dont drink too much Guinnes

I don't think Xman has ever played BF BC2 ^^

 

[enzolt]

March 26th is going to be an interesting day.

I'm more excited to see which speculation was more on the nose

yeah it will be, thats my bday!

 

[noquarter]

I really dont see any difference in this game with tessellation on

can anyone tell a difference?

Bottom one does look fuller, I think tessellation is an effect that might be more obvious in motion, since it enhances the illusion of depth provided by shader effects with actual depth from polygons. As you adjust angle it should always look fully developed, so it is probably something you lose some perception of with just a static screenshot.

But I could be full of shit, I haven't played Metro 2033 yet

 

[Arklight]

Finding tessellation on that picture is like where's Waldo.

Yeah, except all of the other characters also look like Waldo. lol

 

[Red Falcon]

I really dont see any difference in this game with tessellation on

can anyone tell a difference?

If you look on the bottom image, the edges around the man's elbows and helmet are smoothed/rounded out instead of being a bit jagged. It does look nicer, but it's such a small feature that going from DX10 to 11 isn't really worth an entire GPU upgrade with the exception of performance, but this is only my opinion.

If you have the money and/or the ATI 5000 series cards, by all means enjoy it!


EDIT: noquarter, you beat me to it!

 

[noquarter]

Oh I think you also get nicer lighting effects with tessellation because the actual depth provides better surfaces for reflecting the light off of

 

[NKD]

I think I more the tesselation I like the lighting improvements in dx11, Lighting is much more realistic than dx10. ofcourse it is always gonna be really hard to see the difference in tesselation unless you compare two pictures side by side.

 

[Matthew Kane]

Again. Alot of trolling and fanboism in these kind of threads. Even if nvidia does beat ATi, would it be the same for its pricing? I would love to see a GTX470 @ $310-$340 and GTX480 @ $380-$420

 

[lucky777]

I really dont see any difference in this game with tessellation on

can anyone tell a difference?

The one on the top has crazy eyes.

 

[GoldenTiger]

To the people saying that price will make or break Fermi and not performance, please answer the following question: If Fermi outperforms a 5870, why in your opinion should it be priced LESS than a 5870? That seems to be what many of the ATI people are saying on these boards .

Even if nvidia does beat ATi, would it be the same for its pricing? I would love to see a GTX470 @ $310-$340 and GTX480 @ $380-$420

You can get 5870 for $420 at newegg right now, not really anything less... if a GTX480 that outperforms a 5870 launches, why do you think it would be anything less than $450-500?

 

[celeron300]

Looking forward to 1 470 and a 9800 to run physX

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

To the people saying that price will make or break Fermi and not performance, please answer the following question: If Fermi outperforms a 5870, why in your opinion should it be priced LESS than a 5870? That seems to be what many of the ATI people are saying on these boards .



You can get 5870 for $420 at newegg right now, not really anything less... if a GTX480 that outperforms a 5870 launches, why do you think it would be anything less than $450-500?

http://www.ncixus.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=5870

$390 and in stock, if it's 10% faster then I wouldn't mind paying $450 for it, but for $500 it better be 20% faster ^^

 

[GoldenTiger]

http://www.ncixus.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=5870

$390 and in stock, if it's 10% faster then I wouldn't mind paying $450 for it, but for $500 it better be 20% faster ^^

$390? I'm showing $390 plus ***FedEx Express Saver USA $17.77 Usually takes 3 business days to ship. **** for a total of $407.77 shipped. Hardly different than my $420 figure for a total price.

 

[shansoft]

$390? I'm showing $390 plus ***FedEx Express Saver USA $17.77 Usually takes 3 business days to ship. **** for a total of $407.77 shipped. Hardly different than my $420 figure for a total price.

same thing apply to your claim for GTX 480

 

[GoldenTiger]

same thing apply to your claim for GTX 480

Newegg typically has $5-7 shipping for me on most products, occasionally free/included in MSRP price.

 

[TheBlueChanell]

To the people saying that price will make or break Fermi and not performance, please answer the following question: If Fermi outperforms a 5870, why in your opinion should it be priced LESS than a 5870? That seems to be what many of the ATI people are saying on these boards .



You can get 5870 for $420 at newegg right now, not really anything less... if a GTX480 that outperforms a 5870 launches, why do you think it would be anything less than $450-500?

I'm assuming the 480 will be faster than my 5870, by what margin I have no idea, but I don't think Nvidia would charge more than their competition for a card that doesn't best it. Especially given the circumstances they are in i.e extremely late and a super expensive chip to build/produce.

I do think that we will see some price adjustments on the 58**'s to keep some pressure on Nvidia. I hope fermi is a good card because that means good competition and that means good prices for us and I'll be able to pick-up a 2nd 5870 for cheap.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I'm assuming the 480 will be faster than my 5870, by what margin I have no idea, but I don't think Nvidia would charge more than their competition for a card that doesn't best it. Especially given the circumstances they are in i.e extremely late and a super expensive chip to build/produce.

I do think that we will see some price adjustments on the 58**'s to keep some pressure on Nvidia. I hope fermi is a good card because that means good competition and that means good prices for us and I'll be able to pick-up a 2nd 5870 for cheap.

Yep, I am sure we will see some price drops on ATI cards in response which is a good thing for everyone. I don't care that it's late particularly other than having had to use the 5870 until then... being late doesn't affect everyday use once it's here . Everyone wins when there's good competition though... lower prices overall and better performance options available. Hence why I really don't get all the people desperate to convince themselves that everything's perfect with (INSERT BRAND) and that I'm a nutcase for wanting to switch back to nVidia (of course the nVidia fans would all be doing the same thing if someone were saying they wanted to go ATI from nVidia, and these same people would be pouncing on it to try to convince the person for some reason at no personal gain).

 

[TheBlueChanell]

Yep, I am sure we will see some price drops on ATI cards in response which is a good thing for everyone. I don't care that it's late particularly other than having had to use the 5870 until then... being late doesn't affect everyday use once it's here . Everyone wins when there's good competition though... lower prices overall and better performance options available. Hence why I really don't get all the people desperate to convince themselves that everything's perfect with (INSERT BRAND) and that I'm a nutcase for wanting to switch back to nVidia (of course the nVidia fans would all be doing the same thing if someone were saying they wanted to go ATI from nVidia, and these same people would be pouncing on it to try to convince the person for some reason at no personal gain).

I'm gonna hang on to my 5870, I have no reason to upgrade at the moment but eventually I'd like to pick-up either a 120hz 1080p monitor or maybe a lower-end eyefinity setup. Once I make that move and actually need more GPU horsepower I'll either pick-up a 2nd 5870 if the price is right or wait for the 6800/Fermi refresh later in the year. I'm sure that will be an extremely interesting time.

Brand loyalty is kinda lame. I will say that I prefer AMD/ATi always have but whenever it boils down to buying the product I always go with what nets me the best performance for the amount $$ I have available at the time of upgrade. I've had a few more Nvidia cards than I have ATi and I ran intel setups for the past 2 years before moving back with the phenom rig in my sig.

If you do move to a fermi, I'm interested in seeing your thoughts coming from the 5870.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I'm gonna hang on to my 5870, I have no reason to upgrade at the moment but eventually I'd like to pick-up either a 120hz 1080p monitor or maybe a lower-end eyefinity setup. Once I make that move and actually need more GPU horsepower I'll either pick-up a 2nd 5870 if the price is right or wait for the 6800/Fermi refresh later in the year. I'm sure that will be an extremely interesting time.

Brand loyalty is kinda lame. I will say that I prefer AMD/ATi always have but whenever it boils down to buying the product I always go with what nets me the best performance for the amount $$ I have available at the time of upgrade. I've had a few more Nvidia cards than I have ATi and I ran intel setups for the past 2 years before moving back with the phenom rig in my sig.

If you do move to a fermi, I'm interested in seeing your thoughts coming from the 5870.

Yeah, I wouldn't even switch if I weren't having issues with my 5870 in my setup... if it worked fine for me there would have been no reason. If it works for you there's no reason at all to spend the kind of extra cash that I am having to, for example, for such a switch (barring major performance boosts which I don't think we'll see out of Fermi). I will also openly say that I prefer nVidia cards, but again like you I will go for whichever is better performance for the cash hence why I went with a 5870 this go-around. Unfortunately as I've said it didn't work out for me.

I'll let you know how the Fermi is... hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a needless switch that didn't help matters due to immature drivers for this new generation or something .

 

[vengence]

People keep saying AMD/ATI is going to drop prices in response to Nvidia. That will not happen until the demand for their graphics cards goes down. As long as they are selling as many of them as they can make it would be stupid for them to lower prices. You can't sell more units than you can make!

 

[Matthew Kane]

Ditto

 

[GoldenTiger]

People keep saying AMD/ATI is going to drop prices in response to Nvidia. That will not happen until the demand for their graphics cards goes down. As long as they are selling as many of them as they can make it would be stupid for them to lower prices. You can't sell more units than you can make!

The demand will go down once there's a competitive product (Fermi) out against them... so that's why people are saying ATI's will have to drop to make them good choices again .

 

[vengence]

The demand will go down once there's a competitive product (Fermi) out against them... so that's why people are saying ATI's will have to drop to make them good choices again .

Thats assuming there are 480s on the shelves. No one is predicting they will be in high avaliability.

 

[DrDoU]

Looks like there is going to be some(cough) price gouging going on, since everyone and their cat and dog will be buying.You know how demand and price are.MSRP forget it.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Looks like there is going to be some(cough) price gouging going on, since everyone and their cat and dog will be buying.You know how demand and price are.MSRP forget it.

5870's got gouged quickly too, but if you actually care to get the card you can easily snap one at MSRP on launch morning... I did on the 5870, 4870, GTX 280, and 8800GT just fine.

Thats assuming there are 480s on the shelves. No one is predicting they will be in high avaliability.

The 5870 wasn't high-availability at its launch either, yet it forced 280's down just fine. I'm sure the 480 will do the same to the 5870.

 

[vjcsmoke]

I thought that the 285 forced down the price of the 280...

 

[GoldenTiger]

I thought that the 285 forced down the price of the 280...

The 285 was a minor refresh to switch to 55nm and up the clocks a very slight amount.

 

[QuadMe]

I'm hoping that the 470 will sell at 349 and trade blows with 5870 performance wise. This should help bring down 5870 market prices.

 

[RamonGTP]

The 285 was a minor refresh to switch to 55nm and up the clocks a very slight amount.

Correct but irrelevant to the topic. The 285 was the reason why prices went down on the 280. If it was because of the 5870, prices of the 285 would have went down as well, they clearly didn't.

 

[ihira]

5870's got gouged quickly too, but if you actually care to get the card you can easily snap one at MSRP on launch morning... I did on the 5870, 4870, GTX 280, and 8800GT just fine.

that was a big mistake eh?