EA’s Origin EULA Proves Even More Sinister

Vote with your wallet. They know you will take these terms up the rear. It will be one of the biggest selling games and EA will just keep pushing the limits until people give in...

EULA: "By playing this game you give EA rights to your first born child..."
Player: "Meh."

They didn't get my money for BF2142, because of these same shenanigans. When that new and improved EULA card dropped out of the box, the game went right back to the store.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Honestly this is a strawman argument, but I will respond anyhow.

1) All the other mentioned means, even IF they were doing this level of data mining, have methods of turning off that mining. They all either have an opt out, or can outright be blocked from doing it.

The primary problem is two fold.
1) A Game Developer never needs this type of access.
2) There is no means to opt out.

Simple fact of the matter is a Video game developer does not need this level of access. However even if they are going to request it, to essentially force any customer to use it with no means stopping it is anti-consumer. If they wanted to do this for the digital version of BF3, you wouldn't hear me bitching. However there is no justifiable reason why origin must be forced on those buying the retail copy who clearly are NOT interested in the digital crap and all the strings attached. They are essentially saying "If you want to play BF3, you are going to pay $60 AND give us full access to any thing we damn well please on your computer. We are then going to at minimum sell your personal information and make even more money off you. This is just flatly unacceptable on any level. I fail to see how anyone who is rational could even consider this ok for a second.

For the record, I do not use steam for the exact same reasons.

They changed it but origin hasn't been changed and is still required so frankly it doesn't matter.
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You are an exception and not the norm I'm afraid. I can fully support your conviction in that you hold all companies to the same standard and boycott indiscriminately. It is your choice not to make the trade off, and you can stand by it.

The reality is data mining is a regular part of the majority of people's lives, objectively speaking EAs actual legal terms is not worse or better than the myriad of other products/services people are using, this is why they are ambivalent to these terms. I think you will find the people that are agreeable to these terms also agree with those provided by other services. Most people are already at terms with (or maybe ignorant) with the rampant data mining used by CC companies, social networking companies, and other free internet type services, these are typically are much more invasive in terms of personal privacy than what a program like Origin or Steam is likely to look for. I can tell you it is highly unlikely either program is sending all your personal files back to headquarters, or they've invented some amazing compression method.

As a side, you will find that the so called ability to opt out of certain data collection is not actually correct. I know the prominent example being used is that you can opt out of Steam hardware surveys. Except there is no actual general opt out ability in regards to data mining and the Steam TOS/Privacy Policy actual has the same level type of language used (like any other company) that gives they a very broad umbrella. Whether they use it or not (just like EA) at this point no one knows, I can tell you for sure though you can easily conclude that Steam obtains much more information than the optional hardware surveys just by looking at its public operations. At the end though, it is a private entity company, which is even less regulated than public one such as EA, and we do not know the extent of what is actually used.

We can look at another example Google, can you really completely opt out of data mining on Google services? If you can explain how this is done, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. Google's new service, Google+, even has a real name policy to aid their data mining.

EA/BF3 I feel are currently actually being singled out because of media bias due to the EA/Valve situation, which is why you see EA making the headlines so much these days. They are far from the only company with questionable practices, and are actually receiving disproportionate coverage these days.
 
limitedaccess said:
You are an exception and not the norm I'm afraid. I can fully support your conviction in that you hold all companies to the same standard and boycott indiscriminately. It is your choice not to make the trade off, and you can stand by it.

The reality is data mining is a regular part of the majority of people's lives, objectively speaking EAs actual legal terms is not worse or better than the myriad of other products/services people are using, this is why they are ambivalent to these terms. I think you will find the people that are agreeable to these terms also agree with those provided by other services. Most people are already at terms with (or maybe ignorant) with the rampant data mining used by CC companies, social networking companies, and other free internet type services, these are typically are much more invasive in terms of personal privacy than what a program like Origin or Steam is likely to look for. I can tell you it is highly unlikely either program is sending all your personal files back to headquarters, or they've invented some amazing compression method.

As a side, you will find that the so called ability to opt out of certain data collection is not actually correct. I know the prominent example being used is that you can opt out of Steam hardware surveys. Except there is no actual general opt out ability in regards to data mining and the Steam TOS/Privacy Policy actual has the same level type of language used (like any other company) that gives they a very broad umbrella. Whether they use it or not (just like EA) at this point no one knows, I can tell you for sure though you can easily conclude that Steam obtains much more information than the optional hardware surveys just by looking at its public operations. At the end though, it is a private entity company, which is even less regulated than public one such as EA, and we do not know the extent of what is actually used.

We can look at another example Google, can you really completely opt out of data mining on Google services? If you can explain how this is done, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. Google's new service, Google+, even has a real name policy to aid their data mining.

EA/BF3 I feel are currently actually being singled out because of media bias due to the EA/Valve situation, which is why you see EA making the headlines so much these days. They are far from the only company with questionable practices, and are actually receiving disproportionate coverage these days.
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The fact that you'd waste time supporting EA calls into question your credibility.
 
Fail said:
The fact that you'd waste time supporting EA calls into question your credibility.
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Yeah, god forbid people see it for what it actually is. I don't know if I find it more hilarious or sad that people don't know how much more vague Valve's EULA/Privacy Policy is compared to EAs. Just because they give you an "opt in" for an additional optional survey doesn't mean they're not data mining you, you've already opted in to it by agreeing to use their products and/or websites per their Privacy Policy.

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.
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Heh, not so bad.

"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.
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Nothing clearly stating what "individual information" they're collecting or opting in to data collection. The only opt in I see is if you want them to communicate back to you from your anonymous data, e.g. "your driver is out of date". All the while people are freaking the fuck out that EA specifically states what they're looking at. Of course they have to know your ip address, how else are they going to deliver content to you? Any sort of auto update will scan to make sure you're up to date. Submitting any sort of crash report will most likely show what else was running at the time. Polling anonymous hardware, info that people put in their sigs on here and other places, to find out the average user is on current gen hardware, passing that info on to devs, so that maybe we stop getting bastardized ports that run like garbage without even coming close to maximizing the potential of our rigs. That would be a bad thing?

It's sad that this all boils down to people throwing a tantrum they can't get the game through Steam. It began as "No Steam, No Buy. Boycott BF3 because it won't be on Steam." To "OMFG confirmed Origin required to play BF3. Boycott BF3 because you have to use Origin to play the game." Then "OMFG EA will (read may) delete your account after 2 years of inactivity. Boycott BF3 because EA will (may) delete your shit." Now "Origin is spyware. Boycott BF3 because EAs EULA/Privacy Policy isn't as vague as Valve's." Tomorrow "BF3 is supposed to be fun, enjoyable, run like a dream and provide hours of entertainment. DO NOT WANT! Boycott nao!" It's unfortunate all the hubbub drowns out legitimate complaints/issues on the download side like chunk sizes and games only installing on the C drive but instead we just hear tantrums with a whiff of tinfoil hattery.

Links to all EULA's and Privacy Policies, read them for yourselves come to your own conclusions but be warned EAs are like The Lord of the Rings trilogy compared to Valves Green Eggs and Ham.

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf or http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas if you don't want to be linked straight to the pdf.
http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBPRIVACY/US/en/PC/
 
I have a separate system strictly for pc gaming, and don't care what gets scanned on it. I will do anything short of drinking a jar of AID's to play BF3.
 
LostInRehab said:
Honestly it goes further than just the steam survey list.

" EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you."
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You don't think Steam does this too?
 
If it has come down to any game you want to play requires turning over all your data to the company making or distributing it, then there is no 'Choice' other than to not play games. This is only one reason that I still play Quake 3...

I would support a law to limit the abuse, if congree is listening.
 
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