EA bans ongoing + can ban non-Origin EA games

defiant007 said:
Which part of "retailers will not accept the return of opened shrink wrapped software" do you not understand?

It seems to me that some of the people defending this practice are incapable of thinking laterally or critically about this issue as evident from the constant regurgitation of corporate PR propaganda regarding the legal legitimacy of shrink wrapped EULA.

Apart from the fact that you cannot return open software, merely because something is in the EULA does not mean that it would be legally endorsed by a Court and therefore capable of enforcement given the nature of such one sided contracts.
Click to expand...

Tudz said:
That's not the way it works. To be valid, a contract has to be reasonably positioned to be read and considered before agreeing to it. Its absurd to think a person walking into a store during a Christmas sale and sees BF3 for sale to then go home, look up the EA site and try and find the TOS before going back to the store to buy the game... that alone is enough to make the EULA meaningless. There's many things that can cause a contract to be void.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_contract

I could have sworn the list was longer than that, as I studied a bit (and I emphasise "bit" as being very little) for my engineering degree and remember there was a heap of things that would cause a contract to be rendered invalid. Maybe Australian contract law is more strict.

But regardless of all that... these long EULAs and TOS agreements are absolute bull shit and a blight on gaming. Who the fuck has time to read them... the fact you have to go out of your way to learn them before purchase. I dont see how you could reasonably assume someone would have read a EULA or TOS document before installing a program, and even less chance before they've actually bought and paid for it... and then if they disagree with it they have no means to return it. So you're left in the lurch where you dont want to accept an agreement but nor can you return the game (which is also unlawful!!). There's no way I'd know about the EA TOS problems if it weren't for the fact I read these forums, most gamers I know dont read forums so probably wouldn't know at all, and I dont see how you can expect people to go over pages and pages of EULA for each and every program they install, its just not practical.

I think they should be made illegal and replaced by a standard set of laws related to the rights of the consumer and the rights of the publisher. There's a reason why we have consumer protection laws, there's a reason why there are trade practices acts... somehow video game publishers are getting around it with these shady practices.

I stand by the fact someone should not have their games taken away from them due to behaviour on a forum, I personally think it is illegal and if its not (due to "licensing" instead of a physical product), it should be.
Click to expand...

It's not unreasonable at all. Have you ever looked at the warranty information on just about any product you buy? It says "For warranty service do not return the item to the retail outlet. Contact the manufacturer". The same applies here for refunds. If you don't want the software, after you've bought it and opened the package, contact the manufacturer. In this case EA. They'll ask for your CD key, verify it has not been activated, and issue a refund. I've done this twice with Microsoft. You don't need to take your software back to Best Buy or wherever you bought it.

Is that so hard to understand? Or are you people really that naive?

I'm done explaining "The way it works in the real world". You all can go back to believing whatever it is you want to believe.
 
HydroBudz said:
It's not unreasonable at all. Have you ever looked at the warranty information on just about any product you buy? It says "For warranty service do not return the item to the retail outlet. Contact the manufacturer". The same applies here for refunds. If you don't want the software, after you've bought it and opened the package, contact the manufacturer. In this case EA. They'll ask for your CD key, verify it has not been activated, and issue a refund. I've done this twice with Microsoft. You don't need to take your software back to Best Buy or wherever you bought it.

Is that so hard to understand? Or are you people really that naive?

I'm done explaining "The way it works in the real world". You all can go back to believing whatever it is you want to believe.
Click to expand...

Have you ever realized that the world extends beyond your borders to other countries? I have never heard of such a thing, and find it incredibly hard to believe that where you live the retailer is vindicated of any contractual responsibility, not to mention that the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with warranties.

For the record I return anything I have a problem with to the retailer, not the manufacturer who undoubtedly would rather not have to deal with returns and refunds.

You say you have managed to get Microsoft to refund money on a purchase? Go buy some EA software and let us know how you fare with getting a refund direct from EA.
 
Plague_Injected said:
It's the Internet; most people check their abilities at logical and considered thought at the door.
Click to expand...

I know, thank god in the real world we have consumer protections in place to safe guard against these practices. Its only a matter of time until a regulator sees fit to apply them to this type of EULA in our jurisdiction.
 
defiant007 said:
Have you ever realized that the world extends beyond your borders to other countries? I have never heard of such a thing, and find it incredibly hard to believe that where you live the retailer is vindicated of any contractual responsibility, not to mention that the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with warranties.

For the record I return anything I have a problem with to the retailer, not the manufacturer who undoubtedly would rather not have to deal with returns and refunds.

You say you have managed to get Microsoft to refund money on a purchase? Go buy some EA software and let us know how you fare with getting a refund direct from EA.
Click to expand...

Where I work we do this on a large scale quite often. And, honestly, I could care less what goes on in other countries. I don't live there. Look up your own laws around that.

Go take an open game back to GameStop. They won't accept it. No place will take back open software. But the publisher will so long as it had not been activated. You're buying the CD key, the license, not the physical media. That media costs pennies. They could give two shits about it. It's the license to use it that matters.

If you want better options for refunds then buy digitally. EA refunded my purchase for 2142. I bought the game back in 2007 and couldn't get it to install through Origin. So I bought the game again through Origin. Then I was able to get my original purchase from 07 to install and play. So I petitioned for a refund of my last purchase. I did it through their online chat. Easy peazy. They saw that it wasn't installed and promptly refunded my money.

Is that too hard for you? You want EA to stick their motherly nipple in your mouth every time you have a quip over their business practices?

Simply put, if you don't like their terms then don't buy their software. This whole "End User License Agreement" is not new to the software industry. It's been around for as long as I can remember.

Get over it. Or move on. Their software, their service, their rules. Like it or leave it.
 
So the policies for your workplace are indicative of the practice in the entire software industry? News to me, but please do point us to any type of policy or contractual document from any game publisher that confirms they will refund software purchases from brick and mortar stores where a key has not been activated.

And yes it is hard for me to buy anything from EA digitally because, along side their bullshit anti consumer practices, they also have bullshit pricing policies for digital content in my region. So no, I won't be buying anything from EA by digital means any time soon.

And yes the EULA has nothing new to the software industry, but the status of its legality is still and has always been questionable. The only thing that has changed is the internet which has allowed publishers to tie their software to draconian DRM systems that have fuck all to do with delivering a "service" as you put it.

Publishers bitch and whine about piracy, but it is exactly this type of bullshit anti consumer behavior which pushes people away from legally purchasing software. You think a previously existing paying customer is just going to sit there and think "hmmmm I just lost $500 worth of games over a trivial forum ban, oh well I guess I have to buy them all again or forgo playing EA games"? Welcome to the real world.
 
HydroBudz said:
It's not unreasonable at all. Have you ever looked at the warranty information on just about any product you buy? It says "For warranty service do not return the item to the retail outlet. Contact the manufacturer". The same applies here for refunds. If you don't want the software, after you've bought it and opened the package, contact the manufacturer. In this case EA. They'll ask for your CD key, verify it has not been activated, and issue a refund. I've done this twice with Microsoft. You don't need to take your software back to Best Buy or wherever you bought it.

Is that so hard to understand? Or are you people really that naive?

I'm done explaining "The way it works in the real world". You all can go back to believing whatever it is you want to believe.
Click to expand...

I dont know the law in your backward country, but everywhere else in the western world you'll find, if you google things like "returning products" or "consumer rights" things like this...

"your agreement's with the shop you bought it from, NOT the manufacturer; so the retailer MUST deal with it - don't let it palm you off."
Click to expand...

"The retailer’s obligations

If there is an obvious fault with the item at any time within the first 6 months and it has not been caused by wear and tear or misuse, your first port of call must be the shop you bought it from. They have the responsibility to put the matter right, and should not evade this responsibility by referring you to the manufacturer in the context of a guarantee or warranty."
Click to expand...

Just because whatever institution you work for is either in a country without consumer rights OR is breaking consumer rights laws, doesn't mean that's "The way it works in the real world". People not understanding consumer rights (both the consumer themselves and also the retard behind the counter) is why so many people get shuffled between the retailer and manufacturer, both trying to avoid having to deal with you.

Obviously the retailer might not have the technical knowledge to fix the problem, but they are selling the product and it is their responsibility to back the product they are selling, so its on them to take the return, offer you a refund, offer you a replacement or arrange you of a timely resolution to the problem. This is why I can walk into the electronics shop my friend works at and he'll tell me "Don't bother with that TV, we get heaps of returns and the manufacturer is unreliable", he wouldn't know if it weren't for the fact its the shop's responsibility to facilitate the fixing of problems.

There are times when a retailer can forward problems to a manufacturer, I'm trying to remember back to my very brief law subject that I took ages ago, but I know there's times where a retailer can refer complaints to a supplier and if they fail to do so, the blame falls back on the retailer. Maybe when actual damages are concerned? I honestly can't remember.
 
Last edited:
DASHlT said:
When you are banned in-game in Warcraft, you are banned from the forums also.

Even if its a temp ban (im a former 7 year player, I have been temp banned)

I have seen many posts about peoples friends getting banned from the game for what they said in the forums.

Shit happens
Click to expand...

Yes but getting banned in the forums does not ban you from playing the games. It's not a two way street (at least for world of warcraft)
 
Tudz said:
I stand by the fact someone should not have their games taken away from them due to behaviour on a forum, I personally think it is illegal and if its not (due to "licensing" instead of a physical product), it should be.
Click to expand...

Irritating idiot got his games back (was never a permanent ban anyway). The whole story was BS and lies made up to get attention. :p
 
DeathPrincess said:
Irritating idiot got his games back (was never a permanent ban anyway). The whole story was BS and lies made up to get attention. :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, well I did ask way back somewhere in the thread that I'd like to hear follow ups from people who were banned and made appeals to EA support. I still think its wrong for EA to be able to remove access to the games you paid for and completely unreasonable... if people are abusive on forums they should be blocked from the forums, not their games. But like I said ages ago, its not gonna stop me buying EA games because a few idiots got their games banned because of activity on forums. I think its wrong, but its not gonna affect the enjoyment of my own games.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah, well I did ask way back somewhere in the thread that I'd like to hear follow ups from people who were banned and made appeals to EA support. I still think its wrong for EA to be able to remove access to the games you paid for and completely unreasonable... if people are abusive on forums they should be blocked from the forums, not their games. But like I said ages ago, its not gonna stop me buying EA games because a few idiots got their games banned because of activity on forums. I think its wrong, but its not gonna affect the enjoyment of my own games.
Click to expand...

Think about it though. If you know anyone who trolls forums, thats pretty much their online persona. More than likely they do the same, (or worse) in game too. It's kind of unlikely that immature forum asshole becomes non asshole when at play. I don't think any players would miss them, or care they were gone. So removing moron from one part almost always removes moron from other half. Half the moderation required. :D
 
I'll be pissed too if EA decided to ban my account just because of an incident that happened on the forum. Don't you think that removing your access to your games that you acquired legally is a bit harsh? No wonder so many people think EA is the cancer of video gaming.
 
John Vuong said:
I'll be pissed too if EA decided to ban my account just because of an incident that happened on the forum. Don't you think that removing your access to your games that you acquired legally is a bit harsh? No wonder so many people think EA is the cancer of video gaming.
Click to expand...

Not if it's only for 72 hours on a pretty much online only game. You don't think any paid for mmorpg's have week long bans for paying customers? Or the paid for area of this forum has permanent bans of people? It's also their responsibility to make the game enjoyable for other people. I would be more supportive if it was permanent. Asshat players ruin the online experience more than any bug or "feature" I have ever seen. :p
 
Plague_Injected said:
Server bans address that problem.
Click to expand...

But single server bans only move the problem elsewhere. Or even when games have a list of banned players (like VAC) they spread to unprotected servers (like servers running mods). Better to cull the asshat completely and save other admins the trouble.
 
I think some people advocating in favor of this are just incredibly spiteful with little to no capacity for empathy or foresight, no doubt if they are one day banned from their games for whatever trivial reason they will be back here bitching and moaning about the terrible injustice heaped upon them.
 
defiant007 said:
I think some people advocating in favor of this are just incredibly spiteful with little to no capacity for empathy or foresight, no doubt if they are one day banned from their games for whatever trivial reason they will be back here bitching and moaning about the terrible injustice heaped upon them.
Click to expand...

But 72 hours later all would be fine :p

I've had a fair share of injustices...but I don't think being banned for 72 hours from some game would rank anywhere near any of them or even be a contender. People are blowing this waay out of proportion. He wasn't tied naked in a police cell and flogged or sold by slavers. They were being an idiot and got removed. If you saw someone driving around shouting out their window at everyone and being an idiot, who then started shouting at the police and got arrested an licence taken away, would you think he didn't get what was coming to him? Would you empathize with the fool who brought it upon himself and couldn't use his car anymore? What are you supposed to empathize with exactly, him being stupid? I suppose this is unfortunate, but letting them get away with it will just mean theyll do something even stupider later on.

Then again, as ingame and on EA forums I don't go around baiting and being a shithead to others, and can control myself like an adult, I doubt very much that i'd get banned. It's not like they spun a bottle and shot him. They aren't my favirote company in the world (DK 3!?!) but they aren't the shittiest (ubisoft).
 
well look at bf3.
they are banning people because they think they are using hacks.
they are banning people because someone reports them as using a hack.
last they are banning people who are kicked off servers and the mod says they are hacking.

NO PROOF and then a few days later they get an email asking them to buy again..

ps now if you get banned in any game your account is banned and all games are gone.


PS to me they want to ban for anything then get another sale out of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top