e-IPS recomendation

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Lyric Suite

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
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What's the current situation for affordable IPS monitors? I used to own a Dell U2311h and i really liked that screen. I see now there are several companies that are offering IPS screens at low cost, and i'm not sure which to chose for my next purchase.

Beyond the quality of the panel, i have only a few caveats:

1) It has to be matte. I hate reflective screens.

2) It has to have decent response times, at least equal to the U2311h or lower.

3) Has an easy way to switch between widescreen and fullscreen mode. I play a crap load of old games, so this feature is important for me.

4) Is at all reliable. I live in Italy, where our shipping system isn't exactly among the finest. The idea of having to play lottery and having to send defective screens back is never a good prospect but in my case its even worst.
 
The HP ZR2440w 24" e-IPS display is a good option for your needs. Here is a review of it from tftcentral:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_zr2440w.htm

If you look at the conclusion section of the review, it states that the monitor has, "Very good pixel responsiveness for gaming, Excellent black depth and contrast ratio for an IPS panel."

The input lag isn't the best, but it's not the worst either.

Here's another quote from the review which addresses your concern about being able to easily switch to full screen mode, "Aspect Ratio Control: The ZR2440w supports aspect ratio control options through the OSD 'image control' menu as shown above. There are options for 'fill to screen', 'fill to aspect ratio' and 'one to one' here at least. Good to see a defined 1:1 pixel mapping option available and a mode to automatically detect and interpolate the source aspect ratio."

A secondary recommendation is the Dell U2412M. Here is the review from tftcentral:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm

IIRC, the U2412M doesn't properly support 1:1 pixel mapping, but it does have excellent response time and very low input lag.

If it was up to me, I'd probably go with the HP, mainly because of the quality control horror stories I've heard about Dell displays. If you mostly use the display for gaming, have you considered getting a 120hz display? Granted, the 120hz displays use TN panels, but if you use it mostly for gaming, it might be a sacrifice you're willing to make.

Let us know what you decide, and good luck!
 
powruser said:
If you mostly use the display for gaming, have you considered getting a 120hz display? Granted, the 120hz displays use TN panels, but if you use it mostly for gaming, it might be a sacrifice you're willing to make.
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Well, i'm not a twitch gamer, so for me image quality is as equally important as response time (perhaps more so assuming the latter is good enough). After trying the U2311h, i just can't think of going back to a TN screen. Granted my old LCD monitor was pretty crappy, but i remember the sense of marvel and wonder when i first loaded my games and everything looked so vivid, so vibrant. TN panels just look too washed out for my tastes. Plus i tend to use my computer to watch movies as well so viewing angles are also an issue here.
 
Just checked for the HP. At around 500 euros that thing eats most of my budget (i'm building a desktop as well). :(

Are there more affordable options?
 
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powruser said:
IIRC, the U2412M doesn't properly support 1:1 pixel mapping, but it does have excellent response time and very low input lag.
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It does not support 16:9 resolutions natively, but will support 4:3 and 5:4 modes, which are what you need for old games. You can run 16:9 using your video card software if you want to do newer games.
 
I would buy IPS screen instantlh if there were fast enough 23" 1080p models that would do at least 75Hz. I am so tired of my current, washed out, full of banding due ugly looking dark colours, backlight bleeding mess monitor that has contrast ratio closer to 1:10 than 1:1000. Every time I use one Fujitsu IPS display here to check out photos (or my screenshot cache) I cry a little inside... :(
 
suiken_2mieu said:
The dell 2209w can do 72-75Hz but it is only 1680x1050
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Fujitsu P23T-6 IPS might support 75Hz with correct custom timing settings (since PRAD was able to do 72Hz but image was blurry mess - I don't know how much they did tinkering with timings). Now there's Fujitsu P23T-6P IPS and FPR 3D version of it released. I love the 24" Fujitsu P24W-6 IPS (absolutely fantastic screen with great contrast and everything else) but for gaming I'd rather take 23" 1080p display.
 
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Looking at that website, its seems that my only options are either the Asus ML239H or the Dell U2311h again. The response times of the others are too high. Not very inspiring. I just found the HP one at 370 euros, which is a bit more reasonable, but still twice as expensive as the other two. Wonder if its really worth it.
 
Further research yielded this. U2312h has worst blacks then U2311h because of the LED back-light (i was under the assumption that LED was better but apparently i was wrong). Some people also reported a noticeable buzzing sound. U2311h is discontinued so it seems i'm screwed on that front.

I also gathered that tftcentral is not accurate when it comes to input lag measurements, and that in fact the U2312h is pretty much the same as the U2311h. This leaves me wondering whether the HP panels are as bad as they say in this regard.

So right now my options is to either hunt down a U2311h unit or opt for the HP ZR2240w and get by with a smaller and slower screen but with better overall quality. Or alternatively dish out the extra cash for the 24" model (i'm assuming they are the same besides the size, right?).
 
I just got one of these and I also have a U2311H to compare it with, here are my impressions...

The U2311H beats it hands down, even though Dell decided to obsolete this IMO very good model in favor of LED backlighting (a step back in my opinion when it comes to how well the image looks on it).

Angles are pretty good, but I have the impression that the U2311H has a slight advantage. Not enough to really make a difference, though.

The colors are OK (even the reds look reasonable enough to me - I read some complaints about the U2412M about pinkish reds in the past, this one appears OK), but unfortunately mine has a slight yellowish tint in the middle of the screen on white backgrounds (or maybe the brightness is not uniform, thus making the white point look different across the screen? I can't really say since I don't have any professional calibration tools and not much experience with LCD monitors). Maybe people less pretentious than I could live with that, but I think I'll just return the monitor, because this is not its only fault. I also have some barely perceptible warmer color tinting (not yellowish, but more pink-violet) on the right side of my U2311H, but I got used to it. Apparently, these kinds of issues are something common, which is a shame.

The gamma "eyeball" test in lagom.nl reveals a pitifully low value of only around 1.6-1.8, so the image does appear somewhat washed out compared to the U2311H (I didn't bother to look at the gamma on that one, but it looked pleasing to my eyes; no obvious bleach or 'harsh' colors)

I also have around 10 stuck pixels, they appear as tiny green or blue "stars" on a dark background. They look like colored tiny specks of dust. On a cheaper display maybe I would've lived with them, but at this price point - I don't think so.

The contrast appears fine, though the Dell U2311H still seems to be somewhat better subjectively, but it's not a big difference. With lights off, some backlight bleeding is revealed, especially in the lower-left corners, even at low brightness levels.

About PWM flicker: I bought this model because prad.de gave it its maximum rating and mentioned that the frequency is high enough to not be a problem except for the most sensitive people. I did the "hand waving" test at brightness below 70 or 80 and I could see the multiple edges that are due to the strobe effect. In the end, I found that I could handle a brightness of 90 or even 100 (my room is quite brightly lit and the monitor is near the window), so PWM is not a problem for me. Overall the monitor seems to be reasonably easy on the eyes (in terms of eye strain, at least) at these brightness levels, with strong ambient lighting of course. I don't know about lower brightness settings and I don't really intend to subject my eyes to too much PWM flicker.

The reviews say that input lag is 20 ms. I couldn't really feel it negatively in games, then again I'm more of a casual gamer. The overdrive is well implemented, no streaks or blurring that I could see.

Some noticeable abrupt color changes on gradients, something that the TFTCentral review mentions. This is probably thanks to the 6-bit depth, although the U2311H is also 6-bit and seems to be handling gradients much better. I couldn't see any green color tint on gradients, nor could I notice these kinds of issues in normal, everyday usage.

This monitor is quite a disappointment for me, I was expecting something as good as my U2311H based on the prad.de rating of "sehr gut" (very good).

What do you guys think? Should I just replace it with another one of the same model, or should I go maybe for a Dell U2312HM or maybe U2412M, PA238Q? I am weary of low gamma issues, uniformity issues, low contrast, and an Eizo Foris at a reasonable price in my country is out of the question. Any advice for a possible replacement? I would of course prefer 16:10, but image quality trumps everything else.
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A review of the ZR2440w from one of the forumites here. Somebody explain to me how can this monitor have worst image quality then the Dell U2311h.

To answer my own question, the ZR2240w DOES in fact have worst input lag then its bigger brother. Damn it, damn it all to hell.
 
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I'd seriously consider Fujitsu P23T-6P IPS. Older version (Fujitsu P23T-6 IPS) got rather good review from PRAD. I don't know what has changed.
 
Great, another expensive choice. Arrrrg (looks good though). Does the Fujitsu have better coating then the Dell? The graininess of the latter was pretty annoying on my old U2311h.

Can anybody confirm that the U2312h is actually worse then the U2311h in terms of image quality?
 
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Dell U2311h is pretty much the higher end of e-IPS in terms of quality of screen and stand. There's a new LED version U2312M and Dell doesn't make the old version anymore.

My recommendations:

Dell:
U2312: It's cheap and just as good as its predecessor.
U2412: If you want 1920x1200, this is the best choice IMO.

Asus:
PA238Q: Similar to Dell, more expensive and *maybe* better picture quality
PA246Q: Wide color gamut 1920x1200 monitor, certainly the best quality but also more expensive. P-IPS panel.

Eizo:
Foris FS2332: Should be a good IPS for gaming. IMO a bit ugly, and can't really say if it's any better than U2312M, but is more expensive
Foris FS2331: This one is actually a VA panel that should be ok for gaming. Good blacks, doesn't have IPS glow issues but instead the typical VA problems.

Any one of these is a good pick really. ;)
 
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You should google a site that has the comparisons between different panel types. I can't be arsed. ;)
 
I don't know, this is getting too complicated here. If the new Dell monitor (U2312HM) is as good as the old U2311h then i think i may stick with that one, since it is so cheap (177 eruos from the Dell site), and then wait a few more years and see how things develop from there. I'm not sure i'm convinced by the current offerings, certainly not if i have to dish out 300 euros or more for some marginal advantage. All i know is i don't want to step down from a monitor i bought two years ago.
 
I've been very happy with my U2312HM. I bought it for my gaming PC a few months ago. The first one I received had some buzzing issues though but they sent a replacement that was just fine. The replacement process was very smooth as well since they sent the monitor in advance so I didn't have to wait for a period of time with no monitor. Maybe read up on the U2312HM thread to see if the buzzing issue has been corrected in a new revision.
 
Lyric Suite said:
Great, another expensive choice. Arrrrg (looks good though). Does the Fujitsu have better coating then the Dell? The graininess of the latter was pretty annoying on my old U2311h.

Can anybody confirm that the U2312h is actually worse then the U2311h in terms of image quality?
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If it is anything like on the biger version then it is not an issue. At least in my opinion. Also that Fujitsu has excelent contrast. Over 1:1000 in PRAD test if I remember correctly.
 
Alright, lets narrow down my options. I was able to find an Italian seller for the Eizo FS2332, but they want 560 euros for it which is way over the line. Plus i don't like the fact the menu is on remote. Knowing myself, i'll probably lose it at one point or another.

The HP looks good, but i think i'll stick with 1080, both to lower the price and also because i'm utterly neutral to the whole 1080 vs 1200 issue. The 1:1 pixel mapping seems like a god send but i can live with using the menu to switch to 4:3.

The U2312HM seems like the best choice for the price (180 euros), but the chance of getting a bad screen, now with added buzzing noise (which wasn't an issue with the U2311h), makes me queasy.

Next in line is the Asus PA238Q. Good price (260 euros), possibly better image quality then the U2312HM, doesn't have too aggressive AG coating according to some. I couldn't find a professional review after brief goggling so i'm not sure if i can trust this information.

Then there's the Fujitsu P23T-6 IPS. Price is getting steep (360 euros), but the screen seems really good. The PRAD review mentions a slow response time, but i'm not sure about the meaning of the measured value, at least in comparison with all the other screens mentioned here. Doesn't use overdrive, which from what i gather is a good thing. Googling for the Fujitsu P23T-6P yielded very little info.

Looking at more screens, i also found the Samsung SyncMaster F2380M. Not sure how the screen compares, but according to some it can do 75hz. Is this true?
 
Lyric Suite said:
Alright, lets narrow down my options. I was able to find an Italian seller for the Eizo FS2332, but they want 560 euros for it which is way over the line. Plus i don't like the fact the menu is on remote. Knowing myself, i'll probably lose it at one point or another.

The HP looks good, but i think i'll stick with 1080, both to lower the price and also because i'm utterly neutral to the whole 1080 vs 1200 issue. The 1:1 pixel mapping seems like a god send but i can live with using the menu to switch to 4:3.

The U2312HM seems like the best choice for the price (180 euros), but the chance of getting a bad screen, now with added buzzing noise (which wasn't an issue with the U2311h), makes me queasy.

Next in line is the Asus PA238Q. Good price (260 euros), possibly better image quality then the U2312HM, doesn't have too aggressive AG coating according to some. I couldn't find a professional review after brief goggling so i'm not sure if i can trust this information.

Then there's the Fujitsu P23T-6 IPS. Price is getting steep (360 euros), but the screen seems really good. The PRAD review mentions a slow response time, but i'm not sure about the meaning of the measured value, at least in comparison with all the other screens mentioned here. Doesn't use overdrive, which from what i gather is a good thing. Googling for the Fujitsu P23T-6P yielded very little info.

Looking at more screens, i also found the Samsung SyncMaster F2380M. Not sure how the screen compares, but according to some it can do 75hz. Is this true?
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I'll most likely end up buying Fujitsu P23T-6P IPS (I can get it for 343,90 €). Its predecessor had awesome contrast results for IPS (always over 1000:1) and PRAD did say that they did not notice any bad ghosting in practice. I'll be crossing my fingers for 75Hz. Since they now have 3D version of that screen too, I doubt that it's slower than before (sure, it's passive but still). My current one has rather aggressive overdrive and I'd actually rather disable it. This may sound stupid but small motion blur might actually make thing look smoother. :p Also the input lag was less than one frame.

I have had really good experiences with Fujitsu P24W-6 IPS so I kinda have high hopes for this. I'm really, really close to order Fujitsu P23T-6P IPS. The stand is also excellent in my opinion.
 
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Found one seller for the P23T-6P:

http://shop.cema.de/Shop/EN/Product/Details/3733/966176/fujitsu-p23t-6p-ips-lcd-display

Well, "found" it its a bit of a stretch. Its the second link on google search.

Not sure if they ship in Italy, VAT not included in price. I can't seem to find any information on this monitor (at least not in English), of any kind (beyond a standard data sheet). They don't even have it on the Fujitsu site. Very strange.

How about you buy it, then maybe i'll follow. :p
 
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Did you find any information regarding the difference between the P23T-6P and the P23T-6? If i can't can find a store that ships to Italy i may have to stick to the older model.
 
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The specs look identical. P version was just released. Maybe it is just a new revision, minor improvements.
 
This panel sounds better and better. Once you get it, try to see if you can run Quake Live without problems. I think this is the twitchiest game in existence (at least that i ever played). If this monitor is able to handle that without problems i don't think i'll ever need to look else where for my gaming fix.

BTW, while i was searching to see if the P version was available here in Italy (the joys of living in a borderline third world country, arrrrg), i've found a site that carried an image of a black version of the screen. I wonder if maybe that's where the difference lies. I'll see if i can find that link again.
 
Lyric Suite said:
This panel sounds better and better. Once you get it, try to see if you can run Quake Live without problems. I think this is the twitchiest game in existence (at least that i ever played). If this monitor is able to handle that without problems i don't think i'll ever need to look else where for my gaming fix.

BTW, while i was searching to see if the P version was available here in Italy (the joys of living in a borderline third world country, arrrrg), i've found a site that carried an image of a black version of the screen. I wonder if maybe that's where the difference lies. I'll see if i can find that link again.
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It's the 3D version, Fujitsu P23T-6P IPS FPR 3D to be precise. It's passive 3D display.
 
Lyric Suite said:
A review of the ZR2440w from one of the forumites here. Somebody explain to me how can this monitor have worst image quality then the Dell U2311h.

To answer my own question, the ZR2240w DOES in fact have worst input lag then its bigger brother. Damn it, damn it all to hell.
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I wasn't that bothered by the input lag, but the yellow tint in the middle + the backlight bleeding / white IPS glow / whatever it was that looked terrible under low lighting ruined it for me. The U2311H is certainly not without flaw, mine also has a pinkish tint if I look closely, but at least it's less obvious. What I didn't mention was the horrible AG coating of the ZR2440W. I am not bothered by the coating on the Dell U2311H, but the one on the HP was really extreme.

I got a refund and I'm back at square one, and not willing to spend that much money for worse products anymore. I'm leaning towards the U2312HM now because at least it's cheap, but damn - I will more than likely get a worse product (esp. when it comes to contrast) than the U2311H, at the same price. Where I live I can also get a VA Benq BL2400PT at around the same price to escape the contrast issues, but that one has another set of problems.

Between U2312HM and BL2400PT, I'm guessing the former is still better overall? Maybe I could tolerate some blur if the image quality were better, uniform, and without the IPS LED problems like glow or backlight bleed or AG coating. I play some games casually, but I also read and browse a lot and I think the semi-glossy VA Benq would be better for those.
 
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The BenQ uses semi-glossy coating which is the perfect compromise between matte/glossy but with extremely minimal grain. It won't glow or be tinted and it should have good screen uniformity.

The Dell has wider viewing angles when viewed from the side but I have recently discovered that IPS/PLS are pretty much as limited as TN panels in terms of placement/viewable area if you don't want to see glow. The main advantage the dell has is the response time and it will be a big difference.
 
Tup3x said:
It's the 3D version, Fujitsu P23T-6P IPS FPR 3D to be precise. It's passive 3D display.
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Ha, i see. Well, i'm going to have to wait until the end of the month before i can buy the screen. Hopefully by then you'll have received yours so you provide some direct impressions.
 
Lyric Suite said:
Ha, i see. Well, i'm going to have to wait until the end of the month before i can buy the screen. Hopefully by then you'll have received yours so you provide some direct impressions.
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If I'm lucky, it will arrive sometime next week.
 
just get a tn the colour difference in terms of colours is not what it use to be. I suggest the xl2420t for about 300 euros its what im buying once i get the funds. It also allows you to change the screen for games. its 1920 by 1080 24 inches and has an awesome stand
 
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