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DX11 Isn't Important...says Nvidia...

G

Guitarrasdeamor

2[H]4U
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Apr 5, 2008
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Didn't see this posted, if it was, I apologize.

Nvidia's Sr. Vice President, Investor Relations, Mike Hara, has played down the significance of DirectX 11 at the Deutsche Bank Securities Technology Conference. Instead, Mr. Hard insists technologies like CUDA, PhysX and Stereo 3D Vision are the future.

“DirectX 11 by itself is not going be the defining reason to buy a new GPU. It will be one of the reasons. This is why Microsoft is in work with the industry to allow more freedom and more creativity in how you build content, which is always good, and the new features in DirectX 11 are going to allow people to do that. But that no longer is the only reason, we believe, consumers would want to invest in a GPU,” explains Mr. Hara.

“Now, we know, people are doing a lot in the area of video, people are going to do more and more in the area of photography… I think that the things we are doing would allow the GPU to be a co-processor to the CPU and deliver better user experience, better battery life and make that computers little bit more optimized."

It is clear Mr. Hara is pushing CUDA and compute shader performance over gaming performance.

“Graphics industry, I think, is on the point that microprocessor industry was several years ago, when AMD made the public confession that frequency does not matter anymore and it is more about performance per watt. I think we are the same crossroad with the graphics world: framerate and resolution are nice, but today they are very high and going from 120fps to 125fps is not going to fundamentally change end-user experience. But I think the things that we are doing with Stereo 3D Vision, PhysX, about making the games more immersive, more playable is beyond framerates and resolutions. Nvidia will show with the next-generation GPUs that the compute side is now becoming more important that the graphics side,” concluded Mr. Hara.

To be fair, Mike Hara makes a lot of sense in saying framerates aren't the primary concern - even current generation GPUs churn out playable framerates in almost all games across all common resolutions, mostly due to games being led by consoles than anything else. We must remember, though, that it was AMD/ATI who put forth the cost/performance, performance/watt policy starting with the HD 3800 series, continuing to HD 4800, whereas Nvidia insisted on outright performance on a large, hot monolithic die with the GTX 200 series. Moreover, rumours suggest GT300 may be a monster of a chip - rather than a cool, efficient one. Either Nvidia have done a total U-turn or Mr. Hara's statement is contradictory to Nvidia's policy.

Moving to the argument that the compute performance is more important than graphics performance - first and foremost, a GPU is designed for graphics - and most GPU consumers intend to play 3D games using them. Stream processing on general applications can be a great bonus - in fact many creative personnel may choose a GPU solely for stream processing purposes, but the majority of consumers are still gamers. Perhaps Nvidia believes there's greater potential in the stream processing market? Besides, DirectCompute 11 and OpenCL can do what CUDA does - with a much wider acceptance, although efficiency and ease-of-coding is debatable at this point. PhysX and Stereo 3D Vision are cool features which enhance gaming experience, no doubt, but so do certain DX11 features (such as Tessellation), Havok and ATI Eyefinity. It is fair to say though, that at this stage, these are technologies of the future, and none of them have gained widespread acceptance thus far. We will have to wait and see which of these take off. There should not be any doubt though - GPUs are primarily intended for rendering 3D games, and we hope GT300 can do just that with great aplomb.
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http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-directx-11-is-not-important/7674.html?doc=7674
 
This was about what I was expecting from Nvidia as the 5870 draws near. Hype Nvidia's proprietary tech and downplay the fact that ATI has the first DX11 card.
 
Show me a DX11 game and I will give 2 shits about who has the first card and if its even worth the upgrade.
 
DX10 is still barely of any importance, so can't see DX11 making much of an impact with the promo sales fluff Ive seen. Mind due Nivida's can shove there gimmicky near worthless PhysX at the same time.
 
KaptainKhaos said:
This is a sign the GT300 is going to suck - but it will be great at Phsyx and CUDA :)
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Look at their PR around the time of the G80...they really downplayed "unified architechture" and *SLAM*...they chaught everyone of guard.

The G300 is the first new architecture since the G80 (from Single precision to Dual Precision, (SIMD -> MIMD), 512 shaders, 512bit GDDR5 RAM interface, 40 nm) and not just a "refresh" of the G80 like the GT200 65nm/55nm was.

I don't think it will be a "slouch" in any arena...
 
If their DX11 card was close to ready you can bet they would be marketing it like the next best thing to happen to gaming.
 
Of course they are trying to downplay DX11. Doesn't make it true or anything, but they are going to be late to the party this time around so they have to convince people to wait.

The GT300 will of course be DX11. Nvidia would have to be fucking retarded to not make it a DX11 part. And as soon as the GT300 is launched, *bam*, DX11 goes from "not important" to "greatest thing since sliced bread AND WE HAVE PHYSX LOLOLOLOL" :p

Nvidia is making some great hardware, but they are starting to act like a spoiled child instead of a professional company... :/
 
if DX11 is not important, then why GT300 has support for it? why not just wait around for another year or 2 and then make a Dx11 card? nice try nvidia
 
cganesh75 said:
if DX11 is not important, then why GT300 has support for it? why not just wait around for another year or 2 and then make a Dx11 card? nice try nvidia
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Like I said, just like when the G80 launched, they downplayed their unified architecture, which now is at the core of their CUDA.
 
I can't think of anything more significant than 3D and hardware PhysX. I mean those are pretty significant changes to the hobby, wouldn't you say?

I think it is pretty clear Nvidia has more feature rich solutions. I mean, Batman has PhysX and Resident Evil 5 has major 3D vision support. Obviously, developers are taking NVIDIA seriously about this stuff, and they see money it in, which speaks for itself.
 
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Blackstone said:
I can't think of anything more significant than 3D and hardware PhysX. I mean those are pretty significant changes.
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Actually DX11 is mostly a superset of DX10, just like DX10.1 was....only "major" change is tessealation.

I think it is pretty clear Nvidia has more feature rich solutions. I mean, Batman has PhysX and Resident Evil 5 has major 3D vision support. Obviously, developers are taking NVIDIA seriously about this stuff, and they see money it in, which speaks for itself.
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Not to mention that PhysX now is the most used physics-middleware in the industri
 
Atech said:
Like I said, just like when the G80 launched, they downplayed their unified architecture, which now is at the core of their CUDA.
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yeah CUDA is fantastic. i think this story is being misguided. he is saying that for most people, games are not priority and so dx11 is a moot subject. you can add so much more in so many other ways, and thats what they are doing.

its nice because you can sell laptops with dirt cheap cpu's and cuda graphics for a couple hundred less then a real processor and similar graphics. many games still run fine on slow cpu's, and really the only loss is streaming/encoding power.
 
Atech said:
Actually DX11 is mostly a superset of DX10, just like DX10.1 was....only "major" change is tessealation.



Not to mention that PhysX now is the most used physics-middleware in the industri
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physX now is the most used physics middleware in the industry?

oh geeze, that makes me laugh so bad..... (not mentioning it drops fps deep below when its enable ) :p

where havok stand for?

and I bet you dont know what tessellation is....and why so many developer takes the advantage of it :D

PS: 3D Vision? How much this thing cost exactly? and does drop fps? :rolleyes:
 
shansoft said:
physX now is the most used physics middleware in the industry?

oh geeze, that makes me laugh so bad..... (not mentioning it drops fps deep below when its enable ) :p

where havok stand for?

and I bet you dont know what tessellation is....and why so many developer takes the advantage of it :D

PS: 3D Vision? How much this thing cost exactly? and does drop fps? :rolleyes:
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Welcome to the real world:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1451856
 
Elledan said:
Don't feed the trolls :rolleyes:
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I am actually amazed at the level of igorance displayed when it comes to physics.
Compare CPU's and it's done based on performance/features.
Compare GPU's and it's done based on performance/features.
Compare DX9 vs DX10 and it's done based on IQ/performance.

Talk about physics, people brains appears to shut down:
- Compare simple collisions physics to tearable cloth.
- Spread old debunked performance myths (and the fallacy of that IQ comes free in any game)

But I think we don't have to worry.
Once AMD get a OpenCL driver (with Havok support) you will see AMD GPU uers hail that at the second comming...as long as it is not called PhysX

It has happend before.
Back when AGEIA was around...both AMD and NVIDIA users didn't see ANY benefit of this...their vendors OWN implementation will besides be MUCH better.

Well, NVIDIA bought AGEIA...and now it's only the AMD crowd that suddenly don't like PhysX...

I guess the grapes are really sour ;)
 
BlueStorm said:
Heaven forbid actual game developers who are.. you know.. developing games.. contradict things that random forum monkeys such as yourself assume to be true.
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I did not assume to be true, it is you who assume I believe it to be true :rolleyes:
 
shansoft said:
LOL....

these guys are smoking hard...
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Yeah those are are smoking so hard that they actully went and talked with the developers to get their view and even included the competition.

Now do you have any numbers/data..or do you need another blow from the bong?
 
Atech said:
Yeah those are are smoking so hard that they actully went and talked with the developers to get their view and even included the competition.

Now do you have any numbers/data..or do you need another blow from the bong?
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data? just look at the software industry, which one that exactly utilize it enough to make it standout? or fps drops perhaps? or they are just smoke things like what you enjoy? :rolleyes:
 
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shansoft said:
data? just look at the software industry, which one that exactly utilize it enough to make it standout? or fps drops perhaps? or they are just smoke things like what you enjoy? :rolleyes:
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Again and in english even I can understand?
But you are saying you have nothing? :)
 
Atech said:
Again and in english even I can understand?
But you are saying you have nothing? :)
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nothing or there is nothing in industry to show the proof?
oh my bad, there is nothing in software industry to prove it...

btw, smoke some of English from me, it makes you high.....:D
 
Battleneter2 said:
DX10 is still barely of any importance, so can't see DX11 making much of an impact with the promo sales fluff Ive seen. Mind due Nivida's can shove there gimmicky near worthless PhysX at the same time.
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DX10 was pretty much a flop I will be the first to tell you that, it showed very little graphical or performance improvements over DX9. DX10.1 on the other hand was a nice evolutionary step. It offered nice performance gains over DX10 in the games that supported it. DX11 is even more polish on top of that. DX10->11 is almost like Vista->7.

Nvidia downplayed dx10.1 which was clearly superior to DX10 especially with AA was in use and AA efficiency is a great thing. It pisses me off that they try to downplay technology that creates a better end user experience and pushes the market forward just because they don't have supporting hardware at the time. DX10.1 was clearly a step forward and it was never fully utilized solely because nvidia was too proud.

DX10 shipped with Vista which also hurt it's inception and it was also eclipsed by the console generation. Developers didn't care to take the time to properly utilize the DX10 api and even when we did receive DX10 support it was a few lack luster improvements seen in bioshock and crysis. The consoles are DX9 and that's where the money was and there was still room to tap. Today, they have been pretty much pushed to their limits anyone looking to push the envelope is going to look towards the PC.

DX11 is bundled with Windows 7 and Microsoft is making sure that even pc's shipped before Oct 22 are going to have Windows 7. The number of people running windows 7 is going to be much higher than that of Vista. DX11 will be in more hands and the amount of graphics horse power available to those on a budget is greater than ever. The HD4770 is an awesome card and the 5770 will hopefully follow suit not to mention that IGP's are getting more and more powerful.

Multi-threading is also on the rise. Quad cores are finally becoming affordable with the $99 Athlon X4. The computers that Average Joe buys from Dell, HP and Best Buy are going to come with multi-core cpu's and gaming capable video cards. The cost of an entry-level gaming PC is lower than I can ever remember. DX11 is the next DX9.
 
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shansoft said:
nothing or there is nothing in industry to show the proof?
oh my bad, there is nothing in software industry to prove it...

btw, smoke some of English from me, it makes you high.....:D
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Lies, I just enjoyed Darkest of Days...been enjoying PhysX in games since 2006...don't know where you have been hiding?

and why don't you ASK an actual developer...like Ellendan about what they think?
 
Uberbob102000 said:
Well the other thing about DX11 is that it will be downloaded by Vista users as an update, AFAIK.
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DX11 will be on more users computers than DX10 could of ever dreamed of. The hardware is there, even for those on a budget. All signs point to good things for DX11 in my opinion.
 
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