Dumbing down for the 360

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Technoob

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Joystiq:

During the Austin Game Developers Conference (via 1UP), id Software's lead designer Tim Willits admitted that the developer cut back on content it would have included in Rage, due to the Xbox 360's 6-8GB per disc limit. Willits explained that while the PC has "limitless" space and the PS3 has about 25GB, id is "hoping [it] can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

He went on to note that the game was originally going to feature several wastelands, but the limitations of the Xbox 360 required the developer to cut them down to two. These changes were made for all versions of the game. id's John Carmack had previously stated that the game might be a "little blurry" in parts for the Xbox 360.

It's certainly interesting that the Xbox 360 determined the concessions other platforms would need to make in this circumstance.

About to begin, the fanboy wars are.
 
The 360 has PS1 syndrome. It was launched early. Very popular. Developers can do so much with the hardware, but the lack of space just hurts.
 
The 360 is going to have to come out with a BluRay add-on if MS plans to keep it around for a couple more years. But it seems no matter what that the 360 or the next version will require a BR drive.
 
SC385 said:
The 360 is going to have to come out with a BluRay add-on if MS plans to keep it around for a couple more years. But it seems no matter what that the 360 or the next version will require a BR drive.
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Maybe they will go to a flash type memory for gaming in the next generation though...
 
do you think stuff like this would cause MS to rush the new tech to market to try and avoid these issues?
 
It's a shame they are leaving content out for all systems just because of the 360's inferiority.
 
BladeVenom said:
It's a shame they are leaving content out for all systems just because of the 360's inferiority.
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couldn't agree more, i tell you if i was Carmack i would be seriously thinking about putting the game out as it was designed for the PS3 and PC and forget the 360 altogether. just look at MS and say to bad so sad.
 
SC385 said:
The 360 is going to have to come out with a BluRay add-on if MS plans to keep it around for a couple more years. But it seems no matter what that the 360 or the next version will require a BR drive.
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Even if they did, developers couldn't use it as it would fragment the market.
 
MrMike said:
The 360 has PS1 syndrome. It was launched early. Very popular. Developers can do so much with the hardware, but the lack of space just hurts.
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PS1 syndrome? Not only was the PS1 graphically superior to the sega saturn for 3D games, but it also was leaps and bounds beyond the N64 in terms of storage space. As for the lack of space hurting, I surely havnt noticed it. As I understand it, the 360 ports of multiplatform games are typically never worse than the PS3 ports but are rather better in many cases.

Just pony up the dough for a second disc ID, jeeze
 
So wait... it's microsofts fault that ID decided to design past the capabilities of the hardware? Or that ID is still targeting this market base because they want to make more money?

ID is slashing their product to earn extra cash, and playing it off as though the 360 is a piece of shit and the reason why their game is going to suck?
 
Pretty funny since Carmack has said in the very recent past that the PS3 is the limiting factor in "every case" regarding Rage (meaning, graphically). And yeah, I can link that if you need a source.

So I guess, the game was dumbed down for the PS3 in every area not related to storage already.
 
Preemptively making excuses for games makes things easy for devs. Why not blame "the cell is hard to program for" when you have a shitty framerate or had to cut features your promised. Blame "the dvd format limits us" if your game isn't going to ship with the full pie in the sky features that you promised 3 years ago.

I could be an awesome dev, I know all the tricks.
 
And they can't release on multiple discs because...? I am pretty sure I've purchased games before that came on multiple discs. I know id has released games on multiple discs.

When was the last time id released a game? Quake? All they release now is engines and fancy engine demos they charge 60 bucks for.
 
Lost Odyssy was released on four disks. Now if people could actually follow Mistwalker's example.........
 
The issue isn't really disc space as it is MS charging exorbitant royalty prices for 3+ discs in a game, from what I remember.
 
UPDATE - id's Tim Willits has issued a statement strongly denying 1UP's report that any content has been cut from the game. Rather than wastelands being removed from the game, he says they went from an initial plan for 5-6 smaller areas to having two large ones, so that "for the 360...it would play better with one large wasteland on each disc so there would be no loading between wastelands".
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From Kotaku
 
Either they fucked up the design of the engine and they're back-pedalling or they thought that DVDs would magically get 2x bigger in the time the game was being developed.
 
There past few games were nothing spectacular anyway, Why not leave the extra content out of the 360 version and leave it in for the rest? Excuses excuses
 
Why the F would Microsoft charge more for 3+ disks? WWWWWWWtf?

They need BR but still, I do not care if it is 6 disks so long as the game owns.

Gaming makes me sad too often lately.
 
Furystrike said:
PS1 syndrome? Not only was the PS1 graphically superior to the sega saturn for 3D games, but it also was leaps and bounds beyond the N64 in terms of storage space. As for the lack of space hurting, I surely havnt noticed it. As I understand it, the 360 ports of multiplatform games are typically never worse than the PS3 ports but are rather better in many cases.

Just pony up the dough for a second disc ID, jeeze
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I agree the PS1 was better than the Saturn and N64. I never said it wasn't. I also didn't say the 360 was worse than the PS3 for any game.
Developers can do so much with the hardware
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Meaning, they were able to keep going further with the PS1s hardware.

It was a great system. However, multi-disc games began to make their way to the system two years in. Final Fantasy 7, Metal Gear Solid, etc. The same thing is happening on the 360 and it will continue along the same lines for developers that are not afraid of multi-disc, and we will see games continue to get shorter with better graphics for those that are.
 
Here is the actual link from Shacknews.

This is still BS though:
The studio had hoped to circumvent this by spreading the 360 release across three DVDs, though Microsoft's royalty rates apparently make anything beyond two discs financially impracticable.
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That's cause for concern on the 360 version of FF13, which should surprise nobody if it was planned for three discs. I would expect SE to jack the price of the game $5-$10 before they'd compromise their piece of work though.
 
Funny thing is, it was already noted that the royalty rates on multiple disks were the same as games on multiple disks on the PS2 and PS1. Irony.
 
I'm not sure why this is all that big of a deal. I'm pretty sure they've had to scale back every game they've ever made for one reason or another. This time around it was just because the place they're most likely to get the most $$$ (the 360) makes the size impractical.
Do you REALLY think that every other id games turned out exactly as they planned?
 
MS should give them a pass on the royalty rates for at least one disc, good PR, and iD should program in an optional HDD install, problem solved. It can't be that financially painful.
 
MrMike said:
The 360 has PS1 syndrome. It was launched early. Very popular. Developers can do so much with the hardware, but the lack of space just hurts.
Click to expand...

More like PS2 syndrome. The PSX/PS1 was right there with the N64. The PS2 however, was dragging its feet way behind the Xbox1 and GCN. Hated the shitty looking multiplatform games we'd get on the Xbox because they'd have to trim everything back for the PS2. During that time, I believe Ubisoft really stood out. They'd develop for the Xbox\PC first, then scale things back for the other platforms; games like Splinter Cell are evidence of this.
 
This news is over a month old...

Regardless, clearly DVD9 has its limitations or is starting to finally see them be impacted. Microsoft will simply end up releasing a 4th SKU later next year (or the next) that will have a larger storage media drive.

I do not expect we'll see PS4/Xbox 720 for quite awhile. In fact I'd expect to see more SKUs with added features and being rebranded and marketed over and over. Example : Playstation 3 EXTREME in 2010 or Xbox 360 ADVANCED in 2010 .. both with added features that can easily be remarketed, resolve problems like mentioned in this thread and produce sales.

Expect newer SKUs (oh they're coming) to offer things like different drives, colors, controllers.
 
haha, xbox 720, its not going to be called that. whenever I see someone say that I picture some retarded person spinning around in circles and falling down.
 
hdawg06 said:
Maybe they will go to a flash type memory for gaming in the next generation though...
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I have been thinking about this alot lately. I think they need to go back to flash type gaming. Faster and more space for size. Its not like it was a couple years ago. With the size they coming up with nowadays I dont think there is any reason not too. I just picked up a new 16gig thumbstick and it wasnt really any bigger than my old 2gig. It is like 1mm thicker.
 
Technoob said:
Joystiq:


He went on to note that the game was originally going to feature several wastelands, but the limitations of the Xbox 360 required the developer to cut them down to two. These changes were made for all versions of the game.
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WTF? That's some crap. I'm a diehard id fan, but that's some bollocks!!
At least make them a DL id! Come on, don't screw your fans!
 
pxc said:
Tape drives!
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mainframetape.jpg
 
Hey you just don't get it. Carmack would never lie or attack a particular section of gaming. UHHHH like he did the pc crowd when he jumped ship and forgot who got him where he is. He would never put a damn stupid flashlight in a game to cover up the fact that his code sucked.

Now to cut production cost and not include what he hasn't done in the game he is blaming the xbox for his lack of planning and work.

===>> I don't own an xbox I just hate that Fing jerk.
 
damonposey said:
haha, xbox 720, its not going to be called that. whenever I see someone say that I picture some retarded person spinning around in circles and falling down.
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Get off your high horse Mr. Perfect, its commonly used when referring to the next generation Xbox. Its been this way for over 3 years, and clearly nobody is saying thats what the console will be called. Its a light-hearted reference point.

Grow up.
 
Trombe said:
The issue isn't really disc space as it is MS charging exorbitant royalty prices for 3+ discs in a game, from what I remember.
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Correct. It's not just the the 360 is inferior, it's also the exorbitant licensing fees they charge for multidisc games.
 
theNoid said:
Get off your high horse Mr. Perfect, its commonly used when referring to the next generation Xbox. Its been this way for over 3 years, and clearly nobody is saying thats what the console will be called. Its a light-hearted reference point.

Grow up.
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uh oh, theNoid's getting offended for making fun of his xbox 720. and If I'm Mr. Perfect, I don't need to grow up because obviously I'm at the perfect age!
 
BladeVenom said:
Correct. It's not just the the 360 is inferior, it's also the exorbitant licensing fees they charge for multidisc games.
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I wonder how bad it really is though - I mean, so far iD is the only one I've heard of complaining... It's already been mentioned that Lost Odyssey was 4 discs. It makes this whole issue sound like excuse making.
 
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