Dual CPU vs Single CPU

[EvilAlchemist]

While answering another question on the forum, I can across this Dual LGA 1366 Motherboard.

ASUS Z8NA-D6C Dual LGA 1366 - $259.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131378

Now granted, the Xeon CPU's are going to cost more then the Core i7 CPUs.

I would think the overall costs from buying one less motherboard would equal out?

Anyone seen any numbers on single vs dual on this type of setup.

I guess Tiger would be one to ask with his skulltrail setup???

Any thoughts?

 

[SmokeRngs]

Damn, if that motherboard is reliable it would be extremely tempting to use in my main system if I could afford a new system. Sure, I'd have to get my first add in soundcard in years and possibly a PCI-e SATA card as 6 SATA connectors is barely enough for what I have in my main system right now but that would be one hell of an encoding monster. Not to mention when it wasn't doing encoding it would fold like no other.

It would need some good overclocking options as the i7 line is begging to be overclocked but I think you might be able to fit a couple TRUEs on it to handle the heat.

 

[EvilAlchemist]

It would need some good overclocking options as the i7 line is begging to be overclocked but I think you might be able to fit a couple TRUEs on it to handle the heat.

I am not sure if that board has O/C options, but knowing ASUS, it might.
The space between the CPUs is about the same as skulltrail so I bet the TRUE would fit.

I have veered away from O/C my F@H setups, just for stability sake.

Like i said in the First post, the CPUs are more expensive, but IF you are going to build multiple F@H systems , it will come damn close to the same price.

$384.00 - Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor
$274.00 - Intel Xeon E5506 Nehalem 2.13GHz LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor

For Comparison:

$279.00 - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor

Granted, they are lower Ghz, but also have a lower TDP of 80W vs 130W on Core i7.

So if you got 2x E5520, you would pay approx $200 more on CPU's, but would save approx +/- $200 since you don't have to buy the second motherboard.

Power supply, GB of RAM and all that would remain the same ....

The costs are reasonable, just wondering if the having 2 x SMP on a system will lower PPD vs 2 x systems each with SMP.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

I am not sure if that board has O/C options, but knowing ASUS, it might.
The space between the CPUs is about the same as skulltrail so I bet the TRUE would fit.

I have veered away from O/C my F@H setups, just for stability sake.

Like i said in the First post, the CPUs are more expensive, but IF you are going to build multiple F@H systems , it will come damn close to the same price.

$384.00 - Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor
$274.00 - Intel Xeon E5506 Nehalem 2.13GHz LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor

For Comparison:

$279.00 - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor

Granted, they are lower Ghz, but also have a lower TDP of 80W vs 130W on Core i7.

So if you got 2x E5520, you would pay approx $200 more on CPU's, but would save approx +/- $200 since you don't have to buy the second motherboard.

Power supply, GB of RAM and all that would remain the same ....

The costs are reasonable, just wondering if the having 2 x SMP on a system will lower PPD vs 2 x systems each with SMP.

you could run up to 8 smp clients with dual xeon nehalem cores

though i really doubt it will have any extensive overclocking available on it.. since its suppose to be server hardware.. maybe later down the road you will see dual socket boards with overclocking..

 

[Zero82z]

The costs are reasonable, just wondering if the having 2 x SMP on a system will lower PPD vs 2 x systems each with SMP.

Well, it would be a waste to run a single SMP client or even two on each CPU. Best thing to do would be to run four LinSMP VMs per chip. In any case, there is no logical reason for there to be any performance difference between a single two-CPU box and two dual-CPU boxes.

Another thing to consider is that a single dual-chip box will consume a lot less power than two singles since you won't have an extra motherboard or HD to consume power. Plus, the Xeons do have lower TDPs, although you could always use them in single boxes anyway. The only downside is that if you want to build a GPU-heavy farm, you won't be able to use those dual-CPU boards since they don't have any PEG slots.

 

[Tigerbiten]

Another thing to consider is that a single dual-chip box will consume a lot less power than two singles since you won't have an extra motherboard or HD to consume power. Plus, the Xeons do have lower TDPs, although you could always use them in single boxes anyway. The only downside is that if you want to build a GPU-heavy farm, you won't be able to use those dual-CPU boards since they don't have any PEG slots.

You'd want a SuperMicro X8DAH+-F MoBo if you want to run a Multi-GPU setup.
Its twice the price of the Asus board but has 3x PCI-E x16 slots.
8x Linux SMP clients and 6x Nvidia GPUclients.
100k per box may just be possible with good protiens.
It won't be cost effective but you'll have a big *-*****.............

Luck .................

 

[ND40oz]

Also remember that there is no HT on the E5506, not really worth going with a dually unless you go with at least a E5520.

 

[Chilly]

Not worth it, building 2 i7 920 based systems is much better/more worth your bang for the buck.


Trust me. I know.

http://boincstats.com/stats/boinc_host_graph.php?pr=bo&id=5390473

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Also remember that there is no HT on the E5506, not really worth going with a dually unless you go with at least a E5520.

ahh.. didnt know that.. thought all the nehalem xeons had HT.. havent really payed attention to it all that much i guess..

 

[EvilAlchemist]

Not worth it, building 2 i7 920 based systems is much better/more worth your bang for the buck.

I just don't see how that can be not worth it?

You have a lot of CPU power there ....

Dual Xeon Build = $1263.00

• 2 x E5520 = 384.99 = 769.98
• ASUS ASUS Z8NA-D6C Motherboard = $259.00
• 2x CORSAIR XMS3 3GB (3 x 1GB) DDR3 1600 = $59.99 = $120
• Corsair 620 PS = $115.00

2 x Core i7 Build = $1327

• 2 x Core i7 = 279.99 = 559.00
• 2 x ASUS P6T SE LGA 1366 Intel X58C Motherboard = $209.00 = $418.00
• 2 x CORSAIR XMS3 3GB (3 x 1GB) DDR3 1600 = $59.99 = $120
• 2 x Corsair 620 PS = $115.00 = $230.00

All those were taken from Newegg ...
Now you could shop around and get slightly better deals then what I put together ...
But you see the costs are about the same ....

And the Xeon setup has lower TDP and will have lower power usage..
For a pure F@H CPU setup, that is really nice ....

 

[capreppy]

Very interesting discussion. I have to rebuild my study lab when the funds become available (probably August) and I have been tempted to use a Dual i7 Xeon configuration.

 

[Chilly]

I just don't see how that can be not worth it?

You have a lot of CPU power there ....

Dual Xeon Build = $1263.00

• 2 x E5520 = 384.99 = 769.98
• ASUS ASUS Z8NA-D6C Motherboard = $259.00
• 2x CORSAIR XMS3 3GB (3 x 1GB) DDR3 1600 = $59.99 = $120
• Corsair 620 PS = $115.00

2 x Core i7 Build = $1327

• 2 x Core i7 = 279.99 = 559.00
• 2 x ASUS P6T SE LGA 1366 Intel X58C Motherboard = $209.00 = $418.00
• 2 x CORSAIR XMS3 3GB (3 x 1GB) DDR3 1600 = $59.99 = $120
• 2 x Corsair 620 PS = $115.00 = $230.00

All those were taken from Newegg ...
Now you could shop around and get slightly better deals then what I put together ...
But you see the costs are about the same ....

And the Xeon setup has lower TDP and will have lower power usage..
For a pure F@H CPU setup, that is really nice ....

You actually helped prove my point. Lets assume for 1 second that F@H scales 100% for every core you add(it doesn't but for this argument we will assume it does).

Keeping that in mind 2xE5520's at 2.26GHz(2.4GHz turbo) will give you the 18.08GHz(19.2GHz Turbo) of computing power correct? Also remember, that its hard to nearly impossible to overclock these chips yet due to motherboard limitations(Software, aka SetFSB, may do it, but I haven't been successful so far).

For $64 more dollars you get 2xi7 920@2.66GHz(2.8GHz turbo) for 21.28GHz(22.4GHz turbo) of computing power. Plus add the fact that you can overclock(even if its limited OC'ing), and you have just proven my point of the 2x Core i7 systems being more, bang for the buck.

That's not to say that Dual CPU systems aren't fun and cool, I like mine ALOT(seeing 16 threads in Task Manager makes me giggle like a school girl every time), I just don't think are worth it in alot cases. Since F@H is a DC platform, it doesn't matter if your running it on 1 computer, or 100 computers, and since that's the case $$ wise its more cost effective to build many smaller machines that will do more only only a few dollars more, than a few monster machines, that cost slightly less.

 

[Tigerbiten]

You actually helped prove my point. Lets assume for 1 second that F@H scales 100% for every core you add(it doesn't but for this argument we will assume it does).

Keeping that in mind 2xE5520's at 2.26GHz(2.4GHz turbo) will give you the 18.08GHz(19.2GHz Turbo) of computing power correct? Also remember, that its hard to nearly impossible to overclock these chips yet due to motherboard limitations(Software, aka SetFSB, may do it, but I haven't been successful so far).

For $64 more dollars you get 2xi7 920@2.66GHz(2.8GHz turbo) for 21.28GHz(22.4GHz turbo) of computing power. Plus add the fact that you can overclock(even if its limited OC'ing), and you have just proven my point of the 2x Core i7 systems being more, bang for the buck.

But now look at the PpDpWatt figure from each type of system.
Say the single CPU MoBo adds 80 watts to the CPU draw and the dual MoBo adds 100 watts.
Also folding runs at around 500 PpDpGhz.

Dual CPU rig:-
80 watts + 80 watts + 100 watts = 260 Watts.
18 Ghz x 500 PpDpGhz / 260 Watts = 34.6 PpDpWatt.

Two Single CPU rigs:-
2x ( 130 watts + 80 watts ) =420 Watts.
21 Ghz x 500 PpDpGhz / 420 Watts = 25 PpDpWatt.

You begin to look at lower power CPU's in a whole new light.
You'll need to overclock the single rigs by ~30%, to around 3.4 Ghz, before you get near the PpDpWatt figure of the dual rig.
In the long run its the cost of running a farm and keeping it cool thats the killer, not the cost of buying it.

Luck ..............

 

[Chilly]

<snip>

You'll need to overclock the single rigs by ~30%, to around 3.4 Ghz, before you get near the PpDpWatt figure of the dual rig.
In the long run its the cost of running a farm and keeping it cool thats the killer, not the cost of buying it.

Luck ..............

A. Powers cheap, even free in some cases(renters)
B. 30% OC to 3.4GHz on an i7 920? Even a horrible broken OC'ing 920 will OC to that without a sweat.

C. My E5520 system pulls ~460 watts from the wall crunching at 100% doing nothing else. (I have a ATi 4870X2 in the system, so that may push it up a little bit.)

Being an owner of a dual i7 Xeon E5520 system, if you want to use it for folding/crunching, I do NOT believe its worth it over building 2 i7 920 systems. There are plenty of reasons to go with a Dual i7 Xeon system, DC though, is not one of them IMO.

Regardless, I do still crunch with my system

 

[Vaulter98c]

can you post a FAHMon pic? I think that would make me jizz in my pants

 

[EvilAlchemist]

A. Powers cheap, even free in some cases(renters)
B. 30% OC to 3.4GHz on an i7 920? Even a horrible broken OC'ing 920 will OC to that without a sweat.

C. My E5520 system pulls ~460 watts from the wall crunching at 100% doing nothing else. (I have a ATi 4870X2 in the system, so that may push it up a little bit.)

A) Power is cheap, but when you have 4-8 F@H systems, it add ups quick.

B) If you O/C to that level, you are going to need a TRUE or something like that so that will be another $70.00 per system for the heatsink.

C) ATI 4870x2 uses 270W at full load, not sure about idle load, so that does add some to our system total wattage.

You make some good points Chilly, you really do in terms of first build.
I and a few other has started to factor in the total costs of build and running.

Like Tiger said, once you factor that in, it is cost effective to pull off Dual Xeon Setups.

And yes, they are freaking awesome.

 

[Vaulter98c]

just a ?? , how would a 16 core rig like that game? I mean, the Xeon wouldnt be any worse than my stock Q66 now would it? I figure it would be faster, just because of the new architecture, and the memory too I guess. Pair this with a GTX 295 and youd have one bad ass folding/gaming box

also, could you use a normal i7 on these boards? like a 920?

 

[EvilAlchemist]

Here is a link to a user on the FoldingForums, that give some PPD details on a Dual Xeon Setup.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9277

Supermicro X8DA3, 2xE5530 (2.40 GHz), HTT off
Two SMP 1920-pointers: ~10100 PPD atm.
Power consumption: <220W.

Supermicro X8DA3, 2xE5530 (2.40 GHz), HTT on
Two 1920-pointers (-smp 8, each isolated in physical CPU): ~12660 PPD atm.
Power consumption: 250W (performance +24%, power consumption +14%)

 

[Vaulter98c]

I wonder how much he could get running something like notfred's or whatnot
I mean, splitting the VM's off into dual cores seems to be the most efficient, and if these xeon's are as bad (pun) as my Q66, that should put them over 16800 PPD on a 16 core rig

 

[Zero82z]

just a ?? , how would a 16 core rig like that game? I mean, the Xeon wouldnt be any worse than my stock Q66 now would it? I figure it would be faster, just because of the new architecture, and the memory too I guess. Pair this with a GTX 295 and youd have one bad ass folding/gaming box

It would game pretty much the same as an i7 rig would while running at the same clock speed.

also, could you use a normal i7 on these boards? like a 920?

You can, but only one at a time. The i7-branded chips lack the second QPI link needed to be able to function in a dual-CPU system.

 

[Vaulter98c]

hmmm, and how far off do you think my notfred's estimates are? I'm thinking this would be a good cost effective way to build a long term rig, I may have to start buying piece by peice paycheck by paycheck

would be nice to get 20k out of a PC with one GPU and only use like a 600 watt PSU

 

[Zero82z]

At stock speeds, I think around 16-18k PPD would be a reasonable estimate using eight two-core VMs.

 

[Chilly]

can you post a FAHMon pic? I think that would make me jizz in my pants

I crunch Rosetta, but I post a picture of me crunching

just a ?? , how would a 16 core rig like that game? I mean, the Xeon wouldnt be any worse than my stock Q66 now would it? I figure it would be faster, just because of the new architecture, and the memory too I guess. Pair this with a GTX 295 and youd have one bad ass folding/gaming box

also, could you use a normal i7 on these boards? like a 920?

It games well, I don't really have any benchmarks for you to compare. If I had to guess though, most games would run just like an i7 920 @ 2.4GHz since most games aren't well multi-threaded.

A) Power is cheap, but when you have 4-8 F@H systems, it add ups quick.

B) If you O/C to that level, you are going to need a TRUE or something like that so that will be another $70.00 per system for the heatsink.

C) ATI 4870x2 uses 270W at full load, not sure about idle load, so that does add some to our system total wattage.

You make some good points Chilly, you really do in terms of first build.
I and a few other has started to factor in the total costs of build and running.

Like Tiger said, once you factor that in, it is cost effective to pull off Dual Xeon Setups.

And yes, they are freaking awesome.

Just one nitpick, the E55xx series Xeons do NOT come with heatsinks, you have to buy them separately.

You have some very good points, I guess I'd have to say that it comes down to the specific requirements and opinion. There is no clear answer for all situations, but I will give you that a Dual Xeon Setup is more slightly more financially efficient if you are having to pay for the electricity.

Having said all that, I would *personally*, in my case, still go with 2 separate, mildly overclocked i7 920's, if the sole purpose of the system(s) was to crunch/fold.

 

[Vaulter98c]

makes me want to build one so bad lol
I'll have to think about it next month after some more checks come in

 

[EvilAlchemist]

I will say this Chilly, that is still one bad ass system you have there ....

You are correct that the Xeons don't come with a heatsink, but those are not that much $ compaired to an aftermarket heatsink like a full zalman or TRUE type.

In the end, I guess it comes down to personal choice and how much capital you have when you start the build because we are talking some serious money building a dual xeon system.

I know that $1200 is not a lot to some and to others, that is their entire F@H yearly budget.

Hopefully, I can get a few of these built in two months and get some numbers posted.