DoubleSight DS-263N - 26"

rezonat0r said:
The general consensus is that yes, this is currently as good as it gets for a sub $1k IPS panel. I've seen the 23" ACD and the antiglare coating was annoyingly aggressive and sparkly. It wasn't quite as bad on the NEC 2690, but not great either. Seems to be common in IPS models. I'd be interested in how the coating on the DS is.

For me, it sounds like the DoubleSight is too bright and doesn't have the functionality to dim enough. On the NEC, I had set it to 0% Brightness, then there was an "advanced brightness reduction" mode with two levels (low and lower). Had to set that to "low" which finally looked great - in a normal sunlit room. The thing was that freaking bright. But it doesn't sound like the DS has an option like that.

Wish Apple would refresh their damn displays and put me out of my misery. Last spec update on the 23" ACD was in March 2006. I'd be able to control the backlight from my keyboard too.
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If you want to lower the brightness further, you should easily be able to do this via the graphics card settings. Gamma and contrast can both be fine-tuned to give you a lower brightness level without affecting image quality (and more likely due to the lower "normal" brightness, increase image quality).
 
Berek Halfhand said:
If you want to lower the brightness further, you should easily be able to do this via the graphics card settings. Gamma and contrast can both be fine-tuned to give you a lower brightness level without affecting image quality (and more likely due to the lower "normal" brightness, increase image quality).
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This is incorrect. That will affect image quality.

When you use graphic card settings to further lower brightness with panel blocking, you are lowering your contrast at the same time. Not only that but you are cutting into the range of available settings. You only get 255 (8bit) values to represent the depth of color in images, If you start messing with graphics controls you might have only 200 left when done.

The NEC also has a too bright back light, when you turn it past a certain level it too will use panel blocking to lower brightness at the expense of contrast as well. The difference is because of it's 12bit LUT it will still present a full 255 values to represent depth of color.
 
Snowdog said:
This is incorrect. That will affect image quality.

When you use graphic card settings to further lower brightness with panel blocking, you are lowering your contrast at the same time. Not only that but you are cutting into the range of available settings. You only get 255 (8bit) values to represent the depth of color in images, If you start messing with graphics controls you might have only 200 left when done.

The NEC also has a too bright back light, when you turn it past a certain level it too will use panel blocking to lower brightness at the expense of contrast as well. The difference is because of it's 12bit LUT it will still present a full 255 values to represent depth of color.
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If you do it right it won't affect image quality. It's important to keep the contrast steady. Well, even you lower the lumines to an unacceptably low level it will of course.

What IS the reason they keep these panels at unreasonably high levels?
 
I did try Shades on the mac side, but yeah, it was just lowering RGB values and thus crushing blacks. I suppose I could do a calibration with the Spyder while Shades is running and end up with a "Shades" ICC profile? Shades only provides a volume-type slider with no "notches" or percentage shown though, so it'd be difficult to nail the same position on the slider that I used to make the profile. It'd be cool if Shades handled profile switching and let you associate profiles with various levels of Shady-ness.

Snowdog, are you saying the "advanced brightness reduction" (call it ABR) modes on the NEC are just modifying the LUT and not the backlight? In retrospect this would make sense, because the ambient light compensation feature on the NEC only seemed to work in the range of "real" Brightness (backlight), which I kept at 0% anyway for all uses, and would not dim down into the ABR range of dimness (which made the ambient light compensation "feature" completely useless). Hope that made sense.

Yeah, I just don't get this brightness thing. Sure, it makes sense to put a nuclear backlight on the cheap displays that sit side by side at a retail store. But it's not like the DS or NEC are sold that way (to my knowledge). Seems to me that anyone that cares enough about color to go IPS would probably care about black level too, so what gives?! I hate LCDs. :(

Newegg again lists an ETA for the DoubleSight of... today! I begrudgingly walk towards the dangling carrot. Question: Say I get the DS from Newegg, and while there are a couple stuck pixels, there is something else I can bitch about (splotchy backlight, for example). Will they exchange for me?
 
Berek Halfhand said:
If you do it right it won't affect image quality. It's important to keep the contrast steady. Well, even you lower the lumines to an unacceptably low level it will of course.
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There is no such thing as "doing it right". If you want a normal acceptable lower level of say 100cd/m2 you will have extensive panel blocking and your contrast ratio will likely be cut in half and your black level will be too high. If you have an NEC you will still have decent control of the range, but nothing stops your contrast ratio and apparent blacks from going down the toilet.

Look at the new HP LED monitor with likely the same panel tech as the NEC 2490. It gets blacks down .05 cd/m2. That is freaking incredible. Did they have a panel breakthrough? NO. They simply turn down backlight lower instead of using panel blocking. They can go down to 40cd/m2 and still have near 900 contrast ratio. The NEC contrast ratio at that level (if possible) would be about 200.


rezonat0r said:
Snowdog, are you saying the "advanced brightness reduction" (call it ABR) modes on the NEC are just modifying the LUT and not the backlight? In retrospect this would make sense, because the ambient light compensation feature on the NEC only seemed to work in the range of "real" Brightness (backlight), which I kept at 0% anyway for all uses, and would not dim down into the ABR range of dimness (which made the ambient light compensation "feature" completely useless). Hope that made sense.
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Yes that makes sense and that is what I am saying.

Yeah, I just don't get this brightness thing. Sure, it makes sense to put a nuclear backlight on the cheap displays that sit side by side at a retail store. But it's not like the DS or NEC are sold that way (to my knowledge). Seems to me that anyone that cares enough about color to go IPS would probably care about black level too, so what gives?! I hate LCDs. :(
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Marketing unfortunately. Idiot reviewers buy into it as well. Most of the time I see sub 400cd/m2 monitors reviewed, I see the idiot reviewer ding them for not being a bright as the competition. NEC doesn't make these panels, it is LG that supplies the UBER powered backlight and NEC attempts to work around it with all these dimming modes (that unfortunately use Panel blocking). This is a huge monitor peeve of mine.
 
For all of you guys waiting for this monitor I just contacted Doublesight to see what the holdup is and they responded quite quickly...

DoubleSight released a very large quantity into our sales channel on Friday of last week. I would expect resellers to show available inventory sometime this week and early next.
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good news for all of us :)..
 
Do I need a VESA adapter if I wanted to get this stand?
 
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thefurion said:
For all of you guys waiting for this monitor I just contacted Doublesight to see what the holdup is and they responded quite quickly...



good news for all of us :)..
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Yep, Newegg is:

Out of Stock (ETA:06/16/2008)

:cool: back to page 3...
 
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Oops sorry. I just looked really quickly and the most recent post said 26 pounds... I dunno where this number came from considering with the mount it is 23 pounds. It makes more sense that it would be 16 pounds.
 
binxer said:
Do I need a VESA adapter if I wanted to get this stand?
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Let me know if that stand works, that's the one I'm planning on buying with this monitor... if newegg ever gets restocked.

And yes, you can find a 200x100 to 100x100 (or even better, but rarer/much more expensive 75x75) online. Amazon sells them.
 
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Wondering if anyone here has this hooked up to a PS3. Does this work fine with a PS3? No overscan issues?

Probably will be trying to get this when it goes on NewEgg this 6/16 D:

Edit: also, some one mentions motion ghosting on newegg. Is he spoutng crap or did he get one without a polarizer (whatever it may be)? Or is there really one and no one notices? I'm really noticeable to those type of things, that why I couldn't stand my old 2407-HC Dell because of inverse ghosting. Most normal people can't notice it, even when you point it out.
 
veritas7 said:
Wondering if anyone here has this hooked up to a PS3. Does this work fine with a PS3? No overscan issues?

Probably will be trying to get this when it goes on NewEgg this 6/16 D:
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If I remember tonight, or this weekend, I will try this out for you. Though I am going to have to find a HDMI->DVI converter some where.
 
^ If anyone can confirm that a PS3 will run well with this monitor please let us know! I didn't care for console compatibility but now that MGS4 is actually out I gotta have it!
 
Ordered mine on Amazon today. Now, I am wondering how long the wait will be. Next shipment is supposed to be 6/16? Any else waiting and if so how long? Just curious.

I have to admit I almost paid the extra $200 for a Planar, direct from Planar in the hopes getting the new panel with the newer polerizer but then just couldn't make piece with $200 nothing but instant gratification.
 
Does anyone know for certain if BOTH DVI ports support HDCP? Reading the online documentation, its clear that HDCP good for the DVI-D port, but is it the same for the DVI-I?
 
I'm also considering buying from Amazon, although I notice that DoubleSight's website (http://www.doublesight.com/howtobuy/usresellers.php) doesn't list Amazon.com as a reseller. Buy.com is the first listed, and NewEgg is on there too.

As far as I can tell, Buy.com and Amazon have similar return policies except for the time period in which you can return or exchange (14 days at Buy, 30 days at Amazon). But they will both give full refunds in cases of defective units, unlike Newegg.

I emailed DoubleSight and this was their response.

All units are built with the polarization feature as advertised by New Egg.

Product has been shipped to all of our distribution centers. New Egg, Buy.com and others will all receive stock this week sometime.
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I think I'm still gonna have to go with Amazon. It took 3 weeks for my NEC 2690 to start buzzing, so I would have been SOL if I had gone with Buy.com for that.
 
Well after about a year and half of reseaching the best monitors for me to buy. ive probably read ever
review on monitors there is possible to read! so I pull the trigger on this fine Doublesight monitor. Actually put in a request for 2 of them off of provantage shipping to Canada next week sometime. IM very excited to actually part with my old DELL Trinitron 17 inch monitor for which ive used for like 10 years. Anyone that gets the new batch from Doublesight place report back on how the new batch is.
 
My latest findings on DoubleSights newest batch of model: DS-263N

Here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1314999

Not sure if this is an isolated issue or if this is true for all the new ones coming to people.

I have spoken with the tech support team and they have sent my finding to the engineers. I have yet to hear back from them. I will let you all know what I find out.
 
Seems like it is in stock in amazon.. it doesnt say "temporarily out of stock" anymore..

Edit: it says "Usually ships within 1 to 2 months." MONTHS??:( ... I guess it's still not in stock
 
Really? Did your order summary update? Mine still says Shipment #1 not yet shipped.. delivery estimate: June 30, 2008 - July 29, 200 and I submitted my order like 3 days ago =\..
 
That is strange. The tracking # works, UPS is showing it is 31 lbs. That definitely wouldn't be the book I ordered as well : )
 
did you order it with one day shipping? Maybe they are using a different carrier with mine cuz i ordered one with one day shipping and they haven't picked it up from amazon yet
 
Sorry, should have mentioned that. No, I did the free super saver shipping (UPS Ground). Scheduled for delivery Tuesday.

It's very possible they just don't have a tracking # for the 1-day carrier yet (FedEx Air, I'm guessing).
 
Has anyone compared this to the Dell Ultrasharp 2707 27" monitor? I like the inputs on the Dell and the design much more than this. Not to mention the 1000:1 contrast ratio. But it's a PVA panel and I'm wondering if the doublesight will really look much better with its IPS.
 
DoubleSight was aquired by PCBANK, a Korean 3rd-party monitor manufacture, about a year ago.
The exact same monitor is being sold in Korea about $250 less($300 if sale tax is applied).

Also, a newer version has come out. It uses LG LM260WU1-SLB1 pannel and the difference is that the new one offers various input ports.
(http://www.pcbank21n.com/wizmart.php?code=003210)

Still, DS-263N seems like the the best deal in the current U.S market and I think it might get better. What I know is that PCBANK is quite happy with the success they achived and plans to be more agressive in the U.S market.
I only hope this moves other 3rd-party manufactures from Korea to join the U.S market. I mean...for the price you pay for DS-263N in U.S, you can get 30" IPS monitor that uses the latest IPS pannel like this (http://blog.danawa.com/prod/637223/C/861/883/11967/0)
 
Well, tomorrow is the day Provantage gets these in stock... I'm currently using a 275t, but I might return this one and get a Doublesight.
 
Can anyone please tell me if these monitor has any issues with the PS3.

I want to try and get one of these tomorrow when they go on NewEgg.
 
Still not on stock at NewEgg.... been refreshing it all day and have an autonotification to SMS me when it's available D:

I desperate want one of these, I hope it has the polarizer and no dead pixels, would be my dream come true.
 
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