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Doom 3 shader mod for ++ performance

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^eMpTy^ said:
/me puts on his nvidia !!!!!! hat.

ok...humus is cool...I've played with his demos...I've read his posts...he seems to be a cool guy and his demos are sweet...but this is just horse-shit...it's a hack...it causes artifacting at medium quality and the average fps boost was about 3 or 4 fps...one guy said 10fps but didn't give much detail about his settings...

Even if it did work it's nowhere near enough to make them competitive in D3...this post by Humus is just sad...he works for ATi and has probably been tearing through the code trying to find a way to speed it up on ATi cards since the second he got the game...frankly I think it's pretty lame of him to make a post like this without fully testing it...



Even with his HACK ATi still sucks in OpenGL and especially sucks in Doom3...it's cool that he wants to give something to the ATi community...but this is a BS hack and his comments are irresponsible and just plain incorrect...

But hey, if you have a XTPE this 3-4 fps boost is enough to tie with the GT at some settings...

All you ATi guys will have to forgive me...I'm not trying to shit on your cards...however I'm totally shitting on Humus and his pathetic BS hacks...the part about putting comments in the trashcan is just plain sad...
Click to expand...

Wow I thought you were an nvidia fan but more balanced then some of the others around here, this spiel of a post is quite sad :rolleyes:, if you bothered to read his posts on Beyond3d you would know this.

Quote Humus,

"Interesting. Got me worried first, maybe I made a mistake, but I've double-checked it now. My scores are just from a random spot in the game I chose and checked with the fps counter. Hadn't tried running a timedemo though. So I did that now, and I'm still getting a large performance increase, though not quite as large. It went from 17.5 to 20.0, so that's a 14% boost, which is still a large improvement. I can see the reason why the timedemo doesn't give the same performance boost though. It's not as dependent on the lighting shader, but depends a lot on the performance of the multiple layers of smoke and fire that those darn monsters are throwing around.
Click to expand...

But obviously you only read what you wanted to read good going, you're attacks on Humus are pretty pathetic, Humus is one of the coolest people in this whole community, yet you attack him knowing nothing and making a fool of your self.
 
In case anyone cares. Its midnight over here in the land of the beer. I am listening to some music and then hit the sack.

Have fun all and good night :)
 
gordon151 said:
Ruined, considering you're so into that thread I'm surprised you're even coming here with that. The guy didn't even remotely come close to questioning Carmack's competency as a programmer so just end that right there. Also I'm darn sure you saw the posts from him and others mentioning that this would need to be more properly implemented into the engine to work perfectly.

Either way, the fact still remains that this method certainly improves performance on r3xx/r420 based cards and has no detrimental performance to nv40 based cards. The only cards that actually loose performance using this shader code (and is quite possibly, the reason to why it is in the arb2 pathway in the first place) are those based on the nv3x line (which originally had its their pathway).
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Did you even read Humus's first post? He was absolutely questioning carmack...and absolutely spouting off about the ATi vs Nvidia D3 debate...His initial post was completely unprofessional and immature...I could care less what he says after that...damage is done...
 
besides, most people do care about image quality...if artifacts don't bother you...GREAT! Why not remove all the wall textures that are hidden by shadows? Great speed boost, and people that don't mind artifacts wont care anyway.

Now you have a 50% speed boost.


...while you are at it, remove the texture from the bottom of all the monsters feet...it's not like we see them anyway. Another 0.5% speed boost right there!!
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Did you even read Humus's first post? He was absolutely questioning carmack...and absolutely spouting off about the ATi vs Nvidia D3 debate...His initial post was completely unprofessional and immature...I could care less what he says after that...damage is done...
Click to expand...

Yep, Humus could have been much more respectful/professional and contacted Carmack in private channels rather than publically cricitizing him and releasing half-baked shader replacement code. Go back to the last page, I bolded his inappropriate comments.
 
KayossZero said:
Wow I thought you were an nvidia fan but more balanced then some of the others around here, this spiel of a post is quite sad :rolleyes:, if you bothered to read his posts on Beyond3d you would know this.

Quote Humus,



But obviously you only read what you wanted to read good going, you're attacks on Humus are pretty pathetic, Humus is one of the coolest people in this whole community, yet you attack him knowing nothing and making a fool of your self.
Click to expand...

Only thing pathetic here is your inability to read a timestamp on a post...I said what I said long before this was posted...but thanks for your well-researched and thought-out comments about how pathetic I am...
 
trungracingdev said:
I find it ironic how the owners of nvidia cards are the most opinionated about this thread.
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Or that ATI owners are willing to do anything (reduce IQ) to get more speed. :rolleyes:

Steve said it best:
The point is this. If John Carmack did this, every single person on the planet would be eating his lunch and talking smack on him for his lame programming skills because of all the artificats and tearing....

...someone in the forums does this and they are now smarter than Carmack and people are going on rants about "Carmack isn't so smart" or "even Carmack makes mistakes".

Last time I checked, Carmack is still the one making the games and we are still the people in forums somewhere MMQ'ing (Monday Morning Quarterbacking) his programming skills.
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The fact is that people, a good third or more, are getting artifacts but more speed. So I ask was it worth it?
 
I tried the tweak/hack whatever you want to call it just to see what would happen. FPS increased and I didn't notice any changes in image quality.

I changed the file back just in case, I was fine with the performance already.
 
zipspyder said:
PS: I'm sure if ATI were to throw a bunch of money towards ID they could come up with some special "tweaks' to improve ATI's performance more also. Just ask Nvidia...
Click to expand...

This last comment invalidated your entire post.

Carmack codes for OpenGL because he likes it, and doesn't like DirectX. It lets them port it to other OS's faster, and it's his environment of choice. Accusing him of different is insulting and demeaning to one of the greatest industry leaders ever.

Nvidia did NOT pay carmack to optomize for their cards, they (nvidia) just make better OpenGL cards (and always really have, look to the professional market for more proof).
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Did you even read Humus's first post? He was absolutely questioning carmack...and absolutely spouting off about the ATi vs Nvidia D3 debate...His initial post was completely unprofessional and immature...I could care less what he says after that...damage is done...
Click to expand...

The question is, did you read anything after the first post? Apparently not, since you seem to disregard anything after that and have since went on a multi-post effort at attacking what he is doing without even trying to understand his original statements.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Only thing pathetic here is your inability to read a timestamp on a post...I said what I said long before this was posted...but thanks for your well-researched and thought-out comments about how pathetic I am...
Click to expand...

A tad hypocritical for you to say that humus first post is all that matters (damage is done, etc) but then expect everyone to take only your most recent posts into consideration, dont you think?
 
gordon151 said:
The question is, did you read anything after the first post? Apparently not, since you seem to disregard anything after that and have since went on a multi-post effort at attacking what he is doing without even trying to understand his original statements.
Click to expand...

lol...I think I undestand pretty damned clearly...

he hacked some stuff...ran a timedemo...got some faulty results...then released a "patch" that corrupts image quality for 30% of the people the use it...and for what...2 - 3 fps?

Humus said:
The main point here though is that this should be good enough proof that ATI hardware can run Doom3 just as good if not better than nVidia, and that we can pass on all the "ATI suck in OpenGL", "ATI's drivers suck" etc. into the trashcan where it belongs.
Click to expand...

I think this quote and the subsequent retraction of his 40% claim speaks for itself...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Only thing pathetic here is your inability to read a timestamp on a post...I said what I said long before this was posted...but thanks for your well-researched and thought-out comments about how pathetic I am...
Click to expand...

Anyone flaming Humus obviously doesn't know anything about him, you come in this thread and thread crap over and over you obviously have no idea about what your talking about, why don't you take a chill pill and give constructive criticism instead of ranting and making your self look like an Nvidiot high on Nvidiotcy.
 
GeniusInABottle said:
A tad hypocritical for you to say that humus first post is all that matters (damage is done, etc) but then expect everyone to take only your most recent posts into consideration, dont you think?
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Not hypocritical at all...stop reaching trying to say I'm wrong because I'm not...

My first post was entirely correct in response to his first post...in that context I was correct...what was his first in response to? NOTHING...his first post was driven by his own frustration and nothing more...

If anything his later comments serve to backup what I said initially...I called bullshit on his 40% claim and called his comments irresponsible...he's already admitted the 40% number was incorrect due to his own mistake...and I don't think anyone can argue that his entire first post was completely irresponsible...
 
trungracingdev said:
I find it ironic how the owners of nvidia cards are the most opinionated about this thread.
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Why not. Atidiots went on a holy crusade against anyone caught programming/hacking specifically for Nvidia. Payback's a bitch.
 
KayossZero said:
Anyone flaming Humus obviously doesn't know anything about him, you come in this thread and thread crap over and over you obviously have no idea about what your talking about, why don't you take a chill pill and give constructive criticism instead or ranting and making your self look like an Nvidiot high on Nvidiotcy.
Click to expand...

Right because your posts are so constructive? :eek:

I'll say whatever the hell I want thank you very much. Read the rest of my posts in this thread before you pass judgement...if you think this is flaming you have led a sheltered life.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Not hypocritical at all...stop reaching trying to say I'm wrong because I'm not...

My first post was entirely correct in response to his first post...in that context I was correct...what was his first in response to? NOTHING...his first post was driven by his own frustration and nothing more...

If anything his later comments serve to backup what I said initially...I called bullshit on his 40% claim and called his comments irresponsible...he's already admitted the 40% number was incorrect due to his own mistake...and I don't think anyone can argue that his entire first post was completely irresponsible...
Click to expand...

Actually, your first post was dirven by your own frustration... and nothing more. You are just so clearly blinded (oxymoron) by your bias that it's become a joke to see you try and justify yourself and claim not to be a nvidia fan-boy. Take a step back and read what you type, and more importantly how you type it. I think you need to worry about your own posts professionalism before you worry about humus'.
 
The Batman said:
Why not. Atidiots went on a holy crusade against anyone caught programming/hacking specifically for Nvidia. Payback's a bitch.
Click to expand...

Two wrongs obviously make a right? Nice to know where you stand.
 
GeniusInABottle said:
Actually, your first post was dirven by your own frustration... and nothing more. You are just so clearly blinded (oxymoron) by your bias that it's become a joke to see you try and justify yourself and claim not to be a nvidia fan-boy. Take a step back and read what you type, and more importantly how you type it. I think you need to worry about your own posts professionalism before you worry about humus'.
Click to expand...

Do I have to explain everything on a third grade level?

Ok say you're at the playground and some kid comes over and takes your lunch money cuz he's fat and hungry. Then you run up behind him and kick him and call him a poo-poo head. Does that make you the asshole or him the asshole?

If you don't understand it at this point I have no intention of carrying on any further.
 
my my my......Nvidiots are crawling outta the wood work when ATI gains even 3-4 fps. Get lives people. Enjoy nature. Stop arguing on the internet ffs. :rolleyes:
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Do I have to explain everything on a third grade level?

Ok say you're at the playground and some kid comes over and takes your lunch money cuz he's fat and hungry. Then you run up behind him and kick him and call him a poo-poo head. Does that make you the asshole or him the asshole?

If you don't understand it at this point I have no intention of carrying on any further.
Click to expand...

You're questioning my maturity when you make posts which consist almost entirely of ATi "sucking" or being "lame"? Let's at least try and up the vocabulary some, junior, before you get another ban wanring. Heh.
 
GeniusInABottle said:
Actually, your first post was dirven by your own frustration... and nothing more. You are just so clearly blinded (oxymoron) by your bias that it's become a joke to see you try and justify yourself and claim not to be a nvidia fan-boy. Take a step back and read what you type, and more importantly how you type it. I think you need to worry about your own posts professionalism before you worry about humus'.
Click to expand...
You know Humus did this to himself, all you have to do is read his first post where he is clearly slapping mud in Carmack's face and then all the other posts were people are getting crap IQ for the sake of more frames.
 
CrimandEvil said:
You know Humus did this to himself, all you have to do is read his first post where he is clearly slapping mud in Carmack's face.
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Exactly, Humus could have pointed out what the difference in shader performance would have been but instead said that why didn't Carmack use this instead, well the reason lower IQ and its not the effect he wanted.
 
CrimandEvil said:
You know Humus did this to himself, all you have to do is read his first post where he is clearly slapping mud in Carmack's face and then all the othe posts were people are getting crap IQ for the sake of more frames.
Click to expand...

truth.
 
GeniusInABottle said:
You're questioning my maturity when you make posts which consist almost entirely of ATi "sucking" or being "lame"? Let's at least try and up the vocabulary some, junior, before you get another ban wanring. Heh.
Click to expand...

I wasn't questioning your maturity I was providing an analogy because you don't seem to understand that me talking smack about Humus in response to his post is not the same as him making his initial post...you're trying to draw parallels to make me out to be a hypocrite when those paralles don't exist...

Quote where I said ATi was "sucking" or "lame"...haven't said anything about ATi the whole thread...now you're just making things up...
 
GeniusInABottle said:
Actually, your first post was dirven by your own frustration... and nothing more. You are just so clearly blinded (oxymoron) by your bias that it's become a joke to see you try and justify yourself and claim not to be a nvidia fan-boy. Take a step back and read what you type, and more importantly how you type it. I think you need to worry about your own posts professionalism before you worry about humus'.
Click to expand...

You'll never convince a fan boy anything. It's amazing really. It's so simple for us to see, yet they are blind and in the dark.

Nvidia, Ati, I don't care what sticker is on my card as long as I can play games well. Maybe empty has a fortune invested in Nvidia stock I don't know. If that's the case he recently lost a bundle. :p
 
ThisMonsterLives said:
You'll never convince a fan boy anything. It's amazing really. It's so simple for us to see, yet they are blind and in the dark.

Nvidia, Ati, I don't care what sticker is on my card as long as I can play games well. Maybe empty has a fortune invested in Nvidia stock I don't know. If that's the case he recently lost a bundle. :p
Click to expand...

What the hell does this have to do with Nvidia or ATi...as I've stated like 10 times in this post my only problem is with Humus's actions...you guys are trying to turn this into an Nvidia vs ATi !!!!!! thing and it's not...

You've dismissed me as !!!!!!...that makes you blind, not me...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
What the hell does this have to do with Nvidia or ATi...as I've stated like 10 times in this post my only problem is with Humus's actions...you guys are trying to turn this into an Nvidia vs ATi !!!!!! thing and it's not...

You've dismissed me as !!!!!!...that makes you blind, not me...
Click to expand...

One quick look at your sig and it explains it all.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
What the hell does this have to do with Nvidia or ATi...as I've stated like 10 times in this post my only problem is with Humus's actions...you guys are trying to turn this into an Nvidia vs ATi !!!!!! thing and it's not...

You've dismissed me as !!!!!!...that makes you blind, not me...
Click to expand...

ain't that the truth
 
ThisMonsterLives said:
lol, take a look at your sig man. how obvious can you get? you've been in the Doom 3 dark for too long.
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This post started becoming a ati vs nvidia thing not because of Empty.
 
rancor said:
Exactly, Humus could have pointed out what the difference in shader performance would have been but instead said that why didn't Carmack use this instead, well the reason lower IQ and its not the effect he wanted.
Click to expand...

Rancor, from my understanding, the reason there are visual artifacts when using humus's replacement shader code is because there are values used in the code that need to be set dynamically by the game. Fiddling with those values have yielded no artifacts for some people, but that changes the game visually. The reason expressed why Carmack might not have done this was because this method causes nv30 performance to drop and the drop in performance for nv30 is greater than the gain for ati. So when he merged the two paths (arb2 and nv30), this was one of many possible compromises made.
 
trungracingdev said:
One quick look at your sig and it explains it all.
Click to expand...
Looking at your sig explains alot too. :rolleyes: I don't see were this turned into an ATI vs. NV thread but you "supporters" should be ashamed of your actions...you kow who you are. ;)
 
gordon151 said:
The reason expressed why Carmack might not have done this was because this method causes nv30 performance to drop and the drop in performance for nv30 is greater than the gain for ati. So when he merged the two paths (arb2 and nv30), this was one of many possible compromises made.
Click to expand...
I've seen several people in that thread with 5900's post how the hack does nothing for them so you "reason" is wrong.
 
gordon151 said:
Rancor, from my understanding, the reason there are visual artifacts when using humus's replacement shader code is because there are values used in the code that need to be set dynamically by the game. Fiddling with those values have yielded no artifacts for some people, but that changes the game visually. The reason expressed why Carmack might not have done this was because this method causes nv30 performance to drop and the drop in performance for nv30 is greater than the gain for ati. So when he merged the two paths (arb2 and nv30), this was one of many possible compromises made.
Click to expand...

This is the first contructive post in like 3 pages...so what's to be taken from this? Should Carmack have made a separate shader path for ATi cards? Or can this tweak be performed in a driver?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
What the hell does this have to do with Nvidia or ATi...as I've stated like 10 times in this post my only problem is with Humus's actions...you guys are trying to turn this into an Nvidia vs ATi !!!!!! thing and it's not...

You've dismissed me as !!!!!!...that makes you blind, not me...
Click to expand...

"Even with his HACK ATi still sucks in OpenGL and especially sucks in Doom3..."

Taken from your much-talked-about first post no less. Ring any bells? You're right, you never said anything about ATi, I was just confused and stupified!

trungracingdev said:
One quick look at your sig and it explains it all.
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I pointed that out in another thread. Quite humorous. :p
 
empty pointed out what Humus did was elluding that Carmack made the shader so that it wouldn't work well with ATi cards which he was. and something like that is not right.
 
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