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Does tubing initially need any prep before installing?

A

asianguy80

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Messages
1,225
did a quick search and couldn't find anything...

Like the title says. My parts are on the way :D I already picked up my 7/16 masterkleer from mcmaster but my question is: is there any prep for tubing like with prep for blocks and rads such as the whole vinegar/distilled water cleanse? Thanks for any help.
 
I'm using 7/16" masterkleer also, and the only thing I did prior to installation was allow boiling water to flow through the tubing. Since I already had water boiling in order to stretch the tubing over 1/2" fittings, I figured why not kill some bacteria?
 
Nicepants42 said:
I'm using 7/16" masterkleer also, and the only thing I did prior to installation was allow boiling water to flow through the tubing. Since I already had water boiling in order to stretch the tubing over 1/2" fittings, I figured why not kill some bacteria?
Click to expand...

I second the opinion.

Broil some distilled water and put the tube ends in the hot water for 1-2 minutes to expand it. It will make putting on the tubing a breeze and a super tight seal once it contracts.
 
96redformula said:
I second the opinion.

Broil some distilled water and put the tube ends in the hot water for 1-2 minutes to expand it. It will make putting on the tubing a breeze and a super tight seal once it contracts.
Click to expand...

I wish I did that when I put my new tubing in 3 days ago. :(
 
lol what a simple yet good idea, boiling water, almost makes me want to try water cooling someday :)
 
Please don't boil distilled water! Distilled water doesn't contain any particulates and therefore can be super heated beyond the boiling point. Thus when any particulates (impurities) are introduced (such as dust on the tubing) the water can explosively begin boiling which means you can get badly scalded.
 
Don't listen to madmat, asianguy. Mythbusters to the rescue!

Myth

A popular myth about distilled water is that it has the dangerous property of being more easily heated above its normal boiling point without actually boiling (as seen in "Mythbusters") in a process known as superheating. When superheated water is disturbed or has impurities added to it, a nucleation center for bubbles form. These bubbles are then new nucleation centers, and a sudden, explosive boiling can occur, possibly causing serious injury to those nearby. <b>However, distilled water and tap water do not differ in their ease of or danger in being superheated. The dissolved impurities in motionless tap water do not present enough disturbance to inhibit superheating.

You have nothing to worry about.
 
Just dont put your tongue in the water to see if it's hot!:D

Seriously, do you need to rinse the insides of the brand new out of the box waterblock in anything before you place it into an existing Loop?????? ie changing out the block??:eek:
 
aces155 said:
Don't listen to madmat, asianguy. Mythbusters to the rescue!

Myth

A popular myth about distilled water is that it has the dangerous property of being more easily heated above its normal boiling point without actually boiling (as seen in "Mythbusters") in a process known as superheating. When superheated water is disturbed or has impurities added to it, a nucleation center for bubbles form. These bubbles are then new nucleation centers, and a sudden, explosive boiling can occur, possibly causing serious injury to those nearby. <b>However, distilled water and tap water do not differ in their ease of or danger in being superheated. The dissolved impurities in motionless tap water do not present enough disturbance to inhibit superheating.

You have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

OK wiseguy, try it for yourself. Take a cup of distilled water, heat it for three minutes (in a 1000W microwave) then put a single drop of soap in it. If it doesn't violently boil I'll personally kiss your ass on Broadway. I know it will as I've nearly burnt the holy fuck out of myself by doing it. The Mythbusters be damned. They've "busted" myths that have later been confirmed as FACT. Don't place your safety on those quacks.
 
madmat said:
OK wiseguy, try it for yourself. Take a cup of distilled water, heat it for three minutes (in a 1000W microwave) then put a single drop of soap in it. If it doesn't violently boil I'll personally kiss your ass on Broadway.
Click to expand...

Your original statement implied that distilled water would superheat and tapwater, having particulates, would not.

However, distilled water and tap water do not differ in their ease of or danger in being superheated.
Click to expand...

If you read carefully they state that nucleation will occur in superheated water, so even though you're damning the Mythbusters they are confirming your results. Did you happen to try the same thing with tapwater to see if the same thing happens?

Anyway, OP it's a good idea to clean your components out as loose brazing in radiators and excess plasticizers in tubing can easily be removed with hot water or a weak vinegar solution. Vinegar does a great job of getting everything clean but make sure you rinse very thoroughly.
 
magoo said:
Just dont put your tongue in the water to see if it's hot!:D

Seriously, do you need to rinse the insides of the brand new out of the box waterblock in anything before you place it into an existing Loop?????? ie changing out the block??:eek:
Click to expand...

Perhaps or perhaps not. Tubing is produced thru an extrusion process, which makes use of lubricants to facilitate the extrusion.

How well they "clean" the tubing afterwards is debatable. Other than the cost differential of using tygon (for example) vs. other materials, how a manufacturer handles the tubing after the extrusion process also factors into the cost. This could perhaps be a factor why masterkleer costs less.

Any lubricants left over from the extrusion *may* have an effect on cooling ability as the water "cleans" the side walls.

That being said.... I'm using Mastekleer and I've never cleaned it prior to using it. I just used the finger test on some I have here and it "feels" very dry, inside and out.
 
EvilTwinSkippy said:
Your original statement implied that distilled water would superheat and tapwater, having particulates, would not.
Click to expand...

Tap water will boil since it has dissolved particulates in it. Have you not seen boiling water on your stove? Boiling water will not exceed 212*F although the steam coming from it can. Distilled water won't boil, it will exceed 212*F which is where the term "super heated" comes from.

As stated by myself earlier, I've done this with purified water (unthinkingly) in an attempt to clean a greasy baster. I filled the cup, popped it in the microwave for around 3:30 minutes, pulled the cup out of the microwave, dropped in some dishwashing detergent and had the contents of the cup boil out and had I not reacted fast enough I would've been very badly scalded. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or piss in their Wheaties but I would hate to see someone get badly hurt in a manner that can be easily avoided.
 
madmat said:
Tap water will boil since it has dissolved particulates in it. Have you not seen boiling water on your stove? Boiling water will not exceed 212*F although the steam coming from it can. Distilled water won't boil, it will exceed 212*F which is where the term "super heated" comes from.

As stated by myself earlier, I've done this with purified water (unthinkingly) in an attempt to clean a greasy baster. I filled the cup, popped it in the microwave for around 3:30 minutes, pulled the cup out of the microwave, dropped in some dishwashing detergent and had the contents of the cup boil out and had I not reacted fast enough I would've been very badly scalded. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or piss in their Wheaties but I would hate to see someone get badly hurt in a manner that can be easily avoided.
Click to expand...


I call BS on this. I've heated DC tapwater (full of nasty crap) in a microwave and dumped stuff in it only to have it violently react.

Here is the issue...

When you thrown in any non heated substance, into a substance that it is heated to a high level, shit happens.
 
Well there's no point in using boiled distilled water to clean your tubing. Many reasons as to why:

1. Your coolant will kill any bacteria in your loop.

2. Why would hot water remove loose brazing? Any water with decent flow through the radiator would do the same job. And I'm not sure how you're going to get a decent flow of boiling water through a radiator. The temperature of boiling water is WAY beyond the specs of any WC pump.

3. If superheating does occur with distilled water, the temperature will be higher than 100C and may begin to damage your tubing.
 
madmat said:
Tap water will boil since it has dissolved particulates in it. Have you not seen boiling water on your stove? Boiling water will not exceed 212*F although the steam coming from it can. Distilled water won't boil, it will exceed 212*F which is where the term "super heated" comes from.

As stated by myself earlier, I've done this with purified water (unthinkingly) in an attempt to clean a greasy baster. I filled the cup, popped it in the microwave for around 3:30 minutes, pulled the cup out of the microwave, dropped in some dishwashing detergent and had the contents of the cup boil out and had I not reacted fast enough I would've been very badly scalded. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or piss in their Wheaties but I would hate to see someone get badly hurt in a manner that can be easily avoided.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue anything except to point out that "super heated" refers to water/steam under pressure, i.e. boilers.

Pure water will boil at 212°F at standard atmosperic pressure. As you rise above sea level, the boiling point will decrease. If you put water under pressure, the boiling point increases. Depending on the pressure inside the boiler, the water/steam can get very hot, > 250°F.

There is no such thing as "super heated" at standard atmosperic pressure. I will grant you that particulates in the water can change boiling points, also. How much, I am not sure.
 
No.

Superheating can occur without boilers and can occur at standard atmospheric pressure.

Let me explain what madmat and sd11 experienced. The problem is that they MICROWAVED the water. Microwaving water heats the water in a very stable undisturbed manner. In order for water to boil, a disturbance has to occur at a nucleation site (ie a bubble).

So the water they were using out of the microwave was in fact superheated. When they added something to the water, they created the needed disturbance and therefore the water began to suddenly boil (since it was superheated it was already above boiling point temperatures).
 
CoW]8(0);1031320023 said:
2. Why would hot water remove loose brazing? Any water with decent flow through the radiator would do the same job. And I'm not sure how you're going to get a decent flow of boiling water through a radiator. The temperature of boiling water is WAY beyond the specs of any WC pump.
Click to expand...

I never said to use boiling water, I said to use hot water. Hot water in motion will generally remove things better than cool water in motion.
 
96redformula said:
Guys, just heat up the damn water :p.
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Seriously.

I used a pot+stove because my setup was very complicated and took a long time. When I said I let the water run through the tubes I did not mean that I put a cup of water in the microwave and then poured it down the tube - I just submerged the tube in the pot such that boiling water was allowed to flow inside, along it's length, and then out. That part wasn't necessary, expanding the ends to fit over 1/2" barbs was VERY necessary though.
 
didn't think my thread would cause this type of response....but I think I'll go with what nicepants42 did and just pour hot water through the tubes and submerse the ends so that they'll fit the 1/2 barbs.
 
A suggestion, playing with scalding hot water (hot enough to kill anything) is not a good idea and I offer an alternative. Of course dipping the hose end in water that was heated to a boil and then allowed to cool a bit is recommended for the ends of the hose, it works great and its easy to do. Filling 3 ft lengths of small dia hose with scalding water is another thing. :eek:

I suggest, to clean the inside of the tubing, get an extra gallon or two of distilled water, and rinse ALL your internals with a mixture of a pint (16oz) rubbing alcohol and 1/2 gal distilled water, submerge the hose, rad, res etc, in a new clean plastic bucket or tub of the stuff and then rinse with distilled before install. Pour a little in the intake of the pump even. Do not submerge the pump.
 
asianguy80 said:
didn't think my thread would cause this type of response....but I think I'll go with what nicepants42 did and just pour hot water through the tubes and submerse the ends so that they'll fit the 1/2 barbs.
Click to expand...
I specifically said that I did not pour anything, the water went through the tube because the tube was in the pot. Do not burn your frickin hand pouring frickin water through your frickin tubes. ;)

Edit: and by default I agree with BillParrish
 
well yea...lol I was gong to use a funnel and just pour the water in through there not hold the tube...that would be disastrous...and painful to say the least.
 
Distilled water will not be liquid above 100C at one atmosphere (760 torr), period. High school physics 101 for the win.

The fact that the water will boil violently is due to the fact that it is a supersaturated solution (water holds dissolved air) at 100C at 1ATM. If you add anything to it (a spoon, soap, etc), it will be forced to eject the precipitate, and that precipitate (air) has to go somewhere.
 
For big fun, take a freshly opened 2 liter soda and drop a couple of Mentos mints in it. Back away quickly. Do this outside.
 
I just filled a glass cup with distilled water, poped it in the microwave for 3 minutes, pulled it out, then put the hose ends in the cup for 1 to 2 minutes.

THAT EASY!
 
BillParrish said:
For big fun, take a freshly opened 2 liter soda and drop a couple of Mentos mints in it. Back away quickly. Do this outside.
Click to expand...

Diet coke only, I think. (I haven't seen the mythbusters episode in a few months)
 
Alright, ready?
Water OF ANY KIND, can be heated in a microwave, superheated, and will explode per waycool's video. Maybe distilled water will do it more readily (actually, I think tap water would do it more readily due to it's depressed boiling point).

Here's the solution" get a chopstick, preferably a wood one. Where? I don't care, order out for Chinese, it's as good an excuse as any.
Before microwaving the water, stick the chopstick in the water. It will provide the "nucleus" for boiling at 212/100 degrees. It's a trick we used in General and Organic Chemistry classes in college to keep water and HCL mixtures from burning the hell out of our clothes.

Will work for just HOH as well.
 
*reads* Ahh, I did not realize you put the water in a microwave. Yea, that will mess it up. I guess I assumed you were boiling the water on the stove, which tends to avoid the whole exploding water thing.

In any event, I would suggest running some hot water through the tubes just once, and if you are using a previously used radiator be sure to rinse that thing out thoroughly. Even a weak vinager solution would be best if you then run some warm water through it again.
 
i boiled all of my tubing prior to installing. this makes all the tubes straight so that you dont have to worry about fallowing the contour the tubing takes on as a result of being stored on a roll. and as said above the ends will press on easier.
 
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