Does Linux Lack a Killer App?

[Filiprino]

This post is so full of FUD.

 

[Kranium]

Linux is no more work (actually quite a bit less work) than windows once you understand what you are doing.

I believe you, but the "once you understand what you're doing" sounds like just enough of a pain in the ass that I'd rather just pay $100 for windows.

I choose to remain ignorant to Linux's virtues purely due to the image I have created of what I believe working with Linux would be like. That's what the Linux community needs to overcome. I'm just trying to answer the OPs questions as to what's holding Linux adoption back from my point of view.

 

[swatbat]

Exactly. The people that "Need" Excel, NEED Excel. So basically business is out. I've tried them all OpenOffice Sheets, Libre Office Sheets, Google Sheets, Bed Sheets, none even come close.

Pretty much the above. MS office is the killer app. That and exchange. In other fields you have software like autocad, photoshop, etc which will keep people on windows or mac os for the foreseeable future. I have clients that love wordperfect(lawyers). Guess what with corel not making a linux version anymore they will stick to windows for it. Hell I have clients that are running the last version of lotus notes that was released. The time it would take to convert all of the 123 sheets they have would far outweigh the cost savings of ditching windows.

What an idiot. The problem with Linux is not apps; it's accessibility and the fact that installing stuff, especially drivers, is way too complex for most users.

Sure, Photoshop beats GIMP, but a VERY small percentage of computer users have any interest in either program.

I think accessibility is one of the big things. Hell gnome 3 doesn't have screen savers built in and you need to install them. I'd have a fight on my hands with that alone. Installing drivers is one of the biggest issues I see though. Still you have like photo organization software that people like, I'm not saying linux doesn't have software that will work, I'm saying the easy to use bloated crap that non computers want isn't on it.

 

[YARDofSTUF]

You clearly have but actually used it have you? Fire up synaptic and actually use it.

I have, its a great idea but it gets really annoying with some and meeting all the dependencies, and then meeting all those things dependencies. gets annoying when some things work with version 1.1 of some program and others want 1.3 and then theres a 2.0 of the same thing that looks really awesome, but it doesn't work with any of the stuff that needs 1.1 or 1.3.

Then you want to run windows programs and everyone is like just use Wine, its easy and works well! Hah, ya right.

Then you go on a linux forum and make a thread about what you want, and how it didn't work out, and get told to read a book 3 times longer than the bible.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

I believe you, but the "once you understand what you're doing" sounds like just enough of a pain in the ass that I'd rather just pay $100 for windows.

I choose to remain ignorant to Linux's virtues purely due to the image I have created of what I believe working with Linux would be like. That's what the Linux community needs to overcome. I'm just trying to answer the OPs questions as to what's holding Linux adoption back from my point of view.

No it is not as long as you are able to comprehend where Linux requires your attention (drivers or installing certain codecs) you would be fine.

If people learned properly use a computer and not "monkey see monkey do" It is easier then Windows .

Never defrag a harddrive never worry about what websites you go to or what stuff you download .

And yes there are certain programs which Linux does not have but there is always WINE

 

[Jagger100]

Not all the public is ready for Linux. But much more of the public is capable of handling it than currently has tried it. Not everyone outside [H] types are as pathetic as described here.

The main problem with Linux is the last 10%. There is absolutely no money in supporting that last 10% of polish needed to make it smooth and brainless. Its just a lot os quality control man hours that if someone invested in it, there is no scenario in which they'd see a return. Ubuntu tried and got rebuffed. OTOH Ubuntu did some annoying things before trying to whore out that didn't help.

 

[Disposed]

I have, its a great idea but it gets really annoying with some and meeting all the dependencies, and then meeting all those things dependencies. gets annoying when some things work with version 1.1 of some program and others want 1.3 and then theres a 2.0 of the same thing that looks really awesome, but it doesn't work with any of the stuff that needs 1.1 or 1.3.

Then you want to run windows programs and everyone is like just use Wine, its easy and works well! Hah, ya right.

Then you go on a linux forum and make a thread about what you want, and how it didn't work out, and get told to read a book 3 times longer than the bible.

Bullshit had you actually used synaptic at no point would you be worrying about dependencies. Regurgitated FUD FTW.

 

[DPI]

If SteamOS and SteamMachines doesn't become Linux's killer app, then I'm afraid nothing will.

 

[Ashbringer]

I would say the one app its missing is a comprehensive installer and uninstaller program.

One thing Windows does well is make it easy to install and uninstall crap. . . . .except bitlocker

.deb files

 

[Unknown-One]

No just typical Linux ignorance. The Windows uninstaller is god awful and leaves so much shit behind... It's so far behind things like synaptic that it's not even a comparison.

What are you talking about? MSI packages (modern Windows installation packages) leave no system files behind when uninstalled.

 

[YARDofSTUF]

Bullshit had you actually used synaptic at no point would you be worrying about dependencies. Regurgitated FUD FTW.

Ya, was thinking it wouldn't be, same with Suse's YAST I think it was, had a checkbox to automatically download dependecies, and still had issues with them on both Suse and Ubuntu..

 

[Pieter3dnow]

What are you talking about? MSI packages (modern Windows installation packages) leave no system files behind when uninstalled.

That is why people go through the trouble of using things as DDU for videocard drivers.
Because windows uninstall works really well.

the system registry is another matter which is really crap.

 

[Fooshnik]

The key to making Linux catch on is for Windows to suck. However since the NT kernel was implemented Windows has been fairly stable. I dual-boot with Mint and haven't booted into Mint in about a year, Windows works fine for everything I need to do.

Also, in terms of "getting things to work" Linux is on par with Windows 3.1 on so many things it'll never catch on. If all the energy focused on the 45 different GUIs was put into one it would improve Linux' odds.

For servers I'd never use MS.

 

[andrewaggb]

I use linux almost exclusively for my servers...

But every time I try it on the desktop it's a total failure.

couple recent examples:

Centos 6.5, google chrome won't install and isn't supported by google. FAIL. yeah I found a script where some guy hacked a bunch of fedora libs in there to get it to work. It worked... but I consider it deal breaker.

Ubuntu 14, wireless didn't work, said it could install proprietary wireless drivers, after which no networking worked. reinstalled and tried again, still no go. Different machine, ubuntu 14 couldn't shut down, it would never power off. FAIL. 0/2.

And I have many many more examples like this. Different years, different problems, but ultimately I'm still waiting for the 'everything just works' experience. I'm doubtful it'll ever happen to be honest.

Also the binary/backwards compatibility in linux is lousy compared to windows. Commercial vendors complain about supporting PC, on linux many of them are 'ubuntu only', and specific versions of ubuntu.

 

[Disposed]

What are you talking about? MSI packages (modern Windows installation packages) leave no system files behind when uninstalled.

Considering almost nothing uses msi installers or use them as part of a larger installer that point is invalid.

 

[SpeedyVV]

The problem with Linux, is that Windows is just awesome.

Games, Office, just about any app.

I know, Windows is not perfect, but runs well enough, tons of people know it.

Best $100 I ever spent, except for this one time in Vegas, but that is another story.

 

[GaryJohnson]

Considering almost nothing uses msi installers or use them as part of a larger installer that point is invalid.

Synaptic doesn't really handle that well either. If you install Package A which depends on Package B it will tell you and help you automatically get Package B. But if you remove Package A it doesn't automatically flag Package B for removal too.

 

[dandirk]

No just typical Linux ignorance. The Windows uninstaller is god awful and leaves so much shit behind... It's so far behind things like synaptic that it's not even a comparison.

Its not the installers... Windows Installer is waaaay ahead of anything else in the windows environment. It removes everything it installs, (for the most part) what is left behind is mostly stuff created by the application or OS rather then the installer.

Having a clean install or install engine is much easier on Linux... Mostly because it doesn't have a convoluted registry. The registry can make installations a lot more complex on Windows. Tons and tons of guids referencing keys, who reference settings. Though honestly if your app doesn't have drivers (or other tight integration with the OS) and just needs to "run", Windows Installer is powerful, clean and reliable in much the same ways as in linux.

I have no clue what the benefit of such a complex registry/OS system is, but txt files and folder only installs would make things things easier for me at times.

 

[BladeVenom]

a free operating system can't gain more ground on one that costs hundreds of dollars.

Windows ends up costing less than nothing for the big computer vendors. They get their OEM copies very cheap, and then get paid to install junkware on the them making Windows computers cheaper than Linux.

Linux also get no marketing. MS has massive advertising campaigns, and then they all have their stealth marketing. They pay people to post positive messages about MS products. They use to send bloggers laptops, and they have recently been caught again bribing bloggers to write positive stories about MS software. http://uncrunched.com/2014/06/17/microsoft-paying-bloggers-to-write-about-internet-explorer/

 

[SGA76]

I've used Linux on and off for over 10 years now. It really has grown by leaps and bounds but still has some of the same problems it did.
"Stores" in most distros allow for easy installation of most programs and if you actually enter the program description it'll show you anything else you need to instal to run it.
I've used Open Office over MS Office for years, so using LibreOffice isn't a stretch or difficult adjustment for me.
Steam runs native on Ubuntu now, and while most Steam games aren't native a good deal of publishers are making their games to run on Windows Linux and Mac so we are getting headway.
WINE has several frontends to install and run Windows programs and has become much easier to use as well itself.
Really, things are going forward for Linux.
Where does Linux faulter?
Fragmentation.
Different distros run differently and it can feel like a totally different OS even though its still Linux.
If an application isn't in a distro's store, it might be an easy install or it could be a pain in the ass. A lot of programs will have step by step command line instructions where if you can bother to read and copy/ paste its not hard, but too many people don't read and just want to point and click and not even bother to read the EULA and wind up installing 700 spyware programs on their PC in the process.
10 years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of setting up a printer on Linux, now, you go to settings, scan for a printer, and it installs itself. Let's be honest here, that's a whole hell of a lot easier than going to the HP website and installing 6 different driver and software packets you have to know your OS for and whether its 32 or 64 bit and what model the printer is just to get it working in Windows. Sometimes you can use an install disk, but if you bought the printer before the newest version of windows you'll be doing it the long way.
Linux has an unfortunate stigma to it that it is difficult, hard to learn, used only by elitists that were too stuffy to use Macs, and can't play games.
Perception is a powerful thing.
I bought a laptop, barebones, no touch screen. It came with Windows 8, not 8.1, W8. After 3 hours of use, I was ready to throw the damn thing out the front door. Most of my problems I now realize were from the touch input shortcuts and charms bar, and yes, I could have put a program on top of 8 to make it mostly functional, but the MS policy was "This is the way it is and this is the way its going to be so shut the f#ck up and live with it because we know best."
Things weren't going to change so I had to make a decision and I had a few options, I could downgrade to Win7 through HP (or load a pirated version), I could try and learn 8 basic, or I could try Linux. Having my fill of 8 and realizing this was the way all future versions of Windows was going to be, I tried a couple different versions of Mint and Ubuntu, I like Ubuntu the best and stuck with it. Honestly I found it easier to use than Win8 but I won't lie when I say it still lacks the gaming capacity Win8 does. Doesn't bother me too much anymore because my Win7 desktop is what I still play most of my games.
Some people love 8, some people hate it, neither group is going to budge so no point in arguing.
Linux has no killer app or killer apps, but maybe with Steam OS Half Life 3 will be and MS can suck it.

 

[kac77]

Synaptic doesn't really handle that well either. If you install Package A which depends on Package B it will tell you and help you automatically get Package B. But if you remove Package A it doesn't automatically flag Package B for removal too.

Synaptic doesn't but apt-get does tell you and will even tell you what command to run to remove them.

In terms of installing things and removing things the package managers in Linux just do a better job. I don't know how many times I've been held up from .Net dependencies based on versions that pre-date braille or Jesus.

 

[mope54]

the fact that every response in support of linux package management references at least half a dozen package managers is the crux of the problem

 

[PenGunn]

When you 70 year old mother can install and configure cacti on centos I will give in.

I'm 68 and I run Slackware. Why because SysV is crap and wrong. Well slak is also user hostile, another plus.

BSD init is the one true way. Your toy dists are just amusing.

Hi everyone.

 

[Disposed]

Its not the installers... Windows Installer is waaaay ahead of anything else in the windows environment. It removes everything it installs, (for the most part) what is left behind is mostly stuff created by the application or OS rather then the installer.

Having a clean install or install engine is much easier on Linux... Mostly because it doesn't have a convoluted registry. The registry can make installations a lot more complex on Windows. Tons and tons of guids referencing keys, who reference settings. Though honestly if your app doesn't have drivers (or other tight integration with the OS) and just needs to "run", Windows Installer is powerful, clean and reliable in much the same ways as in linux.

I have no clue what the benefit of such a complex registry/OS system is, but txt files and folder only installs would make things things easier for me at times.

Nonsense... Just as a test install a couple programs then immediately uninstall them and look at all the shit left behind...

I will give you this much though the windows installer is reliable. Clean? Fuck no but reliable.

 

[USMCGrunt]

As it was stated here and there in this thread, Linux lacks uniformity and ease of use. Average Joe cant turn on Linux machine A, learn it and then go to Linux machine B and apply those exact same processes to complete the same tasks, this is assuming Linux GUI distros, Average Joe doesn't like command line.

Also, I've noticed posts criticizing Average Joe for his unwillingness to learn Linux and stubborn desire for pretty graphics that convey the 1000 words that he should be typing instead. Let me counter that with Average Joe probably enjoys spending his time learning/refining his chosen craft more than trying to unravel the mysteries of some OS that kinda resembles a MAC, a PC, DOS (If Average Joe is old enough for that) and if he goes to another Linux machine it may or may not have the same appearance/functionality. That's all too much for Average Joe who, let's face it, vastly outnumbers those of us in the technical community that enjoy unraveling such mysteries.

 

[PenGunn]

Average Joe has no business with Linux. If you want to learn or run servers it's perfect. I like it 'cause it does what I tell it to.

Why would Average Joe even care? If he did, he would not be average.

 

[rudy]

I think a killer app has to be something that is exclusive so all the people saying open office or this or that, wont help. Most Linux programs are just an attempt to put compatibility for someone else's killer app into Linux. But since they are not exclusive its always just a game of being behind several steps.

That said the killer app for Linux could be coming, it could be steam in the form of a steam box. Since Gaben went apeshit about windows 8 we could see an HTPC explosion based on Linux if valve pulls this off. And most likely windows will just not be very fluid or intuitive in this use case unless MS has a miraculous awakening and ports all the xbox code into windows and gives people the option of turning PCs into HTPCs in an Xbox like manor.

 

[MostComfortable]

If my computer crashed when I developed on Windows, I would want to kill myself. I would have to download all these little tools, go through installer for anything that isn't on the image preinstalled. It was a nightmare.

Now that I develop on Linux, all I have to do is keep a txt file with a few apt commands and I am good to go. Copy and paste, done.

I do not know how you can get any easier than

apt-get install firefox
apt-get remove firefox

Yup, all this.

Installing/uninstalling in Linux and OS X is so much simpler and cleaner than it is in Windows.

All Linux is missing is games. These days Windows is just a Steam launcher for me, otherwise I'm mostly working in OS X. I'd be more than happy running Linux on my DIY rig if its game library wasn't so lacking.

 

[xer0]

The biggest problem with Linux and its' variations and software is that it's free...

Line up a bunch of almost free $5 charging prostitute and one $500 prostitue, and the majority of people who can afford it will pick the $500 prostitute every time while laughing at the people who are doing the $5 prostitutes. Why? Because deep in our minds, there's something significantly "wrong" with both the people who frequent too-cheap hookers and the actual hooker who charges too little. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, but that's the average mindset. Sure, the too-cheap hooker has all the same physical assets as the more expensive hooker, but people generally believe, and are more likely to be correct, that they will get a better overall experience with the $500 prostitute.

Normal people expect that $5 hookers are crack-addicted, STD-ridden, poor crazy bitches with no self-worth, while $500 hookers, while perhaps not perfect, have some self-value and can at least afford treatment for their other ailments and hide it while performing their trade.

Sure you can likely find a special $5 whore who isn't a crack-ridden, STD laden, poor crazy bitch with no self-worth if you partake in enough searching and research, but it's not worth the crack addictions, STD's, and craziness, people believe they will likely encounter along the way when compared to just spending the money on a $500 hooker in the first place.

Linux's biggest problem is that it is likened to a $5 whore surrounded by men/women who will actually have sex with $5 whores. It's just not worth the hassle for most people.

 

[Sycraft]

Yes, it does. The thing is, Windows is "good enough" and it is established as the standard. The world is full of that. Doesn't matter if something else is better (you can argue if Linux is actually better or not), if the established solution is good enough, people will keep using it.

We see it all over: Things that we could do better with today's technology/knowledge, yet keep being implemented as they have been because that way is good enough and changing is a pain.

Same shit with Linux for the desktop. It would need a killer app, it would need something that made it not just better, but extremely attractive to get people to switch over. Otherwise, Windows is good enough, it is the standard, people will keep using it.

If you have to try and argue why people should use it, point out the things you like, and try and explain away flaws, well then you've already lost. It has to be as simple as "Look at this, you want that, don't you?" or it won't get people off of the standard.

 

[CEpeep]

The biggest problem with Linux and its' variations and software is that it's free...

Linux's biggest problem is that it is likened to a $5 whore surrounded by men/women who will actually have sex with $5 whores. It's just not worth the hassle for most people.

Well, at least you tried. (Not really.)

 

[Trepidati0n]

Yes, it does. The thing is, Windows is "good enough" and it is established as the standard. The world is full of that. Doesn't matter if something else is better (you can argue if Linux is actually better or not), if the established solution is good enough, people will keep using it.

Not only is windows "good enough"...it is actually "good". The only "bad thing" MS has done lately was probably the UI for Windows 8. It isn't that the UI was "buggy" or "crashing", it was just annoying. If they put back the old UI, people would quickly forget and go back to business as usual.

 

[ImperfectLink]

Line up a bunch of almost free $5 charging prostitute and one $500 prostitue, and the majority of people who can afford it will pick the $500 prostitute every time while laughing at the people who are doing the $5 prostitutes. Why? Because deep in our minds, there's something significantly "wrong" with both the people who frequent too-cheap hookers and the actual hooker who charges too little. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, but that's the average mindset. Sure, the too-cheap hooker has all the same physical assets as the more expensive hooker, but people generally believe, and are more likely to be correct, that they will get a better overall experience with the $500 prostitute.

You should be comparing the $500 hooker to actually having a girlfriend. Meeting a nice girl with good code quality is free. Maybe she doesn't always wear makeup and doesn't some of the big flashy features,but that can be a good thing too. She has nothing to hide, she won't tell you you have obsolete hardware and in a year she will be just as witty as the day you met her. You decide how much of your time and/or money to invest in her and she will do the same for you.

 

[Romale23]

Until linux can run MS Office and has a single unified place were admin's can throw approved software that people can just double click and install thats super easy to understand and has one unified interface. It just ain't happening. Better doesn't matter when your dealing with stupid.

Then there's the fact of ownership and cost. Then there's the way to sell it. People insist on saying the software is free. No company wants to deal with "unsupported" software because they have to mitigate risk. Even when you tell them you can buy support packages they still wig out. I've been successful from the standpoint of saying the cost of software is x dollars a year (the cost of buying support).

But if you think for one second i can get the average corporate or agency user to get off of excel i got some land i'm willing to sell you.

As far as the windows installer. Your missing the point on easy. You say well these commands or theres this graphic thing here. Its not unified. Windows installer is super easy, it may not work well, but its super easy and the same process on all current versions of windows. When they go home its the same.

What non windows computers are having success penetrating the corporate desktop market at all? Apple. Why? because all of the problems above are addressed and you're still pissing up a rope because of GPO control and the like from the actual IT side of things.

 

[GaryJohnson]

Synaptic doesn't but apt-get does tell you and will even tell you what command to run to remove them.

In terms of installing things and removing things the package managers in Linux just do a better job. I don't know how many times I've been held up from .Net dependencies based on versions that pre-date braille or Jesus.

Synaptic does manage that in a similar way. When it automatically installs things it flags them as automatically installed and if you remove all their manually installed dependants it sticks them in an "autoremovable" status category. But you have to opt-in to it just like you have to do with apt-get. If it knows the stuff is no longer needed why doesn't it automatically remove it?

 

[daglesj]

Hmm anyone who puts a $ substitution in a name instantly gets their part in a artivle ot thread ignored.

As for linux and my customers? Well as I've said before...I can't give it away, even if it means the customer get's their PC for £100 less. They still take Windows.

I still run a couple of current Linux distros in VMware so I can keep checking up on them (Mint/Fedora). They are close but still I find sticking points that mean I cannot cross over fully to Linux from Windows. As others have mentioned - Windows...it just works.

 

[daglesj]

Until linux can run MS Office and has a single unified place were admin's can throw approved software that people can just double click and install thats super easy to understand and has one unified interface. It just ain't happening. Better doesn't matter when your dealing with stupid.

Then there's the fact of ownership and cost. Then there's the way to sell it. People insist on saying the software is free. No company wants to deal with "unsupported" software because they have to mitigate risk. Even when you tell them you can buy support packages they still wig out. I've been successful from the standpoint of saying the cost of software is x dollars a year (the cost of buying support).

But if you think for one second i can get the average corporate or agency user to get off of excel i got some land i'm willing to sell you.

As far as the windows installer. Your missing the point on easy. You say well these commands or theres this graphic thing here. Its not unified. Windows installer is super easy, it may not work well, but its super easy and the same process on all current versions of windows. When they go home its the same.

What non windows computers are having success penetrating the corporate desktop market at all? Apple. Why? because all of the problems above are addressed and you're still pissing up a rope because of GPO control and the like from the actual IT side of things.

I remember in the last corporation I worked at we would get a new IT manager moving in full of himself declaring "Ha Microsoft will be gone from this corporation in 6 months!"

Well 6 months later it sure wasn't Microsoft that was gone.

 

[shade91]

Until there's no longer 70 distributions and things can be done in a few clicks as opposed to a few lines of apt-get, Linux will not catch on at the desktop.

 

[daglesj]

Until there's no longer 70 distributions and things can be done in a few clicks as opposed to a few lines of apt-get, Linux will not catch on at the desktop.

Yep corporations need to know what they have invested into is going to be around and supported for X number of years and beyond.

Linux needs to boil down to around 4-5 distros with proper organised support and development.

 

[CEpeep]

Linux needs to boil down to around 4-5 distros with proper organised support and development.

There are already enough of those type of distros. What we really need are more distros like Arch that spurn development of new, innovative software packages and attract new kernel developers. If you want a corporate supported distro with standard packages, you already have world-class vendors like SuSE and RedHat offering you a well-maintained tightly controlled distro built to enterprise specifications. There really are only about 5 major distros with corporate-style support and development, but they aren't the real factories for innovation and they rely heavily on the community and other large companies like IBM to create large portions of the software that ends up there. Less distros would just stifle innovation and cause a drying of talent upstream. It might be fine for a few years but a model with only half a dozen distros or less is simply not sustainable.