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Does AMD have an answer for Conroe?

S

sifulee

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
151
Conroe is looking VERY impressive and a possible reason for me to switch back to Intel. I would really like to stay with AMD, what is there answer to Conroe?
 
Nothing yet.

K8L is possible, but until that gets here, which isn't anytime soon, AMD will take a beating.
 
Thats sad to hear. I love my X2 4400+ but I'm really considering upgrading to conroe. Do you think thats a smart move or should I just wait to see what Amd does?
 
I say you should wait because after you buy a conroe mobo AMD will have its answer that will beat conroe. Plus conroe won't become a requirement for games for like 2-3 years and a x2 4400 is still very good. It will hold you off to AMD's answer
 
No, not for a while. The K8L will be competing with Cloverton and Kentsfield when it's released, not Conroe. By the time AMD has a next generation processor, Intel will be close to launching their next generation architecture (post-Conroe) chip code named "Nehalem".

AMD had better be aiming high.

edit: spelling
 
I guess I should have read this thread before going on my rant about how AMD just sat on their asses thinking they had Intel beat. Sadly Conroe is next on my list and my first Intel CPU that I will have ever bought.

K8L is K8 rehashed and Conroe seems to have it beaten pretty good.
 
Haven't you guys ever pondered about this.. Just think about it. The current AM2's have been released a few months ahead of Conroe. It is just a base for their newer chips that will be coming out. Why would AMD impliment DDR2, but use the same processors in AM2? Obviously it is just a base for their new chips coming out that WILL compete or beat Conroe. AMD probably actually got a jump on Intel by doing this. They already have their AM2 out there and circulating on the market ready to go, all they have to do is release the new chips that are faster than Conroe to slip in their new AM2 boards. I mean, they already have the DDR2. They just didn't make sense to me releasing all the same 939 chips, but in an AM2 version. I bet you will see AMD have an ace up their sleeve that nobody knows about. They released this AM2 DDR2 stuff for a reason.. and it also corresponds with the HUGE price cuts they will be doing around the time of Conroe. Why would a company pretty much HALF their prices without coming out with anything new to compete with Conroe? That right there seems obvious that the current AM2 spec processors out will be half priced in order to release their new lineup of chips. If not, they would be losing some serious money, and that isn't a normal business tactic.

This is just a speculation by me based off of how companies usually impliment new product lines with corresponding prices and competition. In no way might I be correct, or do I know anything at all about what AMD/Intel are doing in the future.
 
Actually AM2 may be shot lived as I understand it AMD's next CPU the rehashed K8 will be on the AM3. Then 2 months after that will be AM4.

On-die memory controller isnt worth it. Having to upgrade CPU and mobo everytime just because of memory is just way too expensive for us consumers. Put it back on the motherboard and not the CPU.
 
DDRX360 said:
I say you should wait because after you buy a conroe mobo AMD will have its answer that will beat conroe. Plus conroe won't become a requirement for games for like 2-3 years and a x2 4400 is still very good. It will hold you off to AMD's answer
Click to expand...

You do know people use their computers for OTHER things then gaming.... i am so sick of seeing this "crap"

"You dont need X because games cant use it anyways"
 
Yes and no. AMD has announced both K8L and "4x4," but all they have are announcements and vauge ETAs. Yes they have something coming eventually (most likely for Kentsfield), no they have nothing to directly answer Conroe.
 
I think that maybe Conroe may have caught AMD off guard. What is the pricing on Conroes gonna be? If they are smart they will make it similiar to AMD cpu's that way its a no brainer which to buy for the performance/price ratio.

Surely AMD wont wait for a year or two before they get something comparable. Lets hope they are working on the true next gen AMD cpu not just another rehash of the K8.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Surely AMD wont wait for a year or two before they get something comparable. Lets hope they are working on the true next gen AMD cpu not just another rehash of the K8.
Click to expand...
You can't just pull a new microarchitecture out of nowhere. It takes YEARS of R&D to develop something like Conroe.
 
Rishi M. said:
You can't just pull a new microarchitecture out of nowhere. It takes YEARS of R&D to develop something like Conroe.
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Yea, I'm sure AMD hasn't been doing the same.. :rolleyes:
 
The OP's post seems to me like he can't get around the fact that Intel has Amd beat right now and theres nothing Amd has right now to beat Intel and wont for a while. Theres tons of posts like this, people just can't handle that Intel is now where the proformance is at. I have an Amd right now as it is, I go with what ever will be cheapest and give good performance, and when I bought my pc it was Amd. I don't see why this is a big deal, I mean do you really want Amd to be in the lead all the time, compitition is good for a reason, it drives prices down. Look at the huge price drops that are coming when conroe comes out, do you really think they would be there if conroe had the AM2 performance increases over the current generation.
 
wiretap said:
The current AM2's have been released a few months ahead of Conroe. It is just a base for their newer chips that will be coming out. Why would AMD impliment DDR2, but use the same processors in AM2?
Click to expand...
Uh, because this year is the crossover point for DDR2? It's already happened for large makers like Samsung, when they shipped more DDR2 than DDR in mid-2005. Socket AM2 allows AMD to leverage this less expensive technology.


wiretap said:
Obviously it is just a base for their new chips coming out that WILL compete or beat Conroe.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the "base" is quad-core. Those chips take advantage of the bandwidth provided by DDR2.


wiretap said:
They released this AM2 DDR2 stuff for a reason.. and it also corresponds with the HUGE price cuts they will be doing around the time of Conroe.
Click to expand...
You obviously haven't seen the upcoming price cuts that Intel has committed to.

wiretap said:
Why would a company pretty much HALF their prices without coming out with anything new to compete with Conroe? That right there seems obvious that the current AM2 spec processors out will be half priced in order to release their new lineup of chips. If not, they would be losing some serious money, and that isn't a normal business tactic.
Click to expand...
LOL. Using the price lever when you lack a competitive product is not a normal business tactic?
 
JackPack said:
Uh, because this year is the crossover point for DDR2? It's already happened for large makers like Samsung, when they shipped more DDR2 than DDR in mid-2005. Socket AM2 allows AMD to leverage this less expensive technology.


Yeah, the "base" is quad-core. Those chips take advantage of the bandwidth provided by DDR2.


You obviously haven't seen the upcoming price cuts that Intel has committed to.

LOL. Using the price lever when you lack a competitive product is not a normal business tactic?
Click to expand...
1 - agree.
2 - agree.
3 - seen them.
4 - true, but they won't leave themselves in the dust. Lowering prices across the board means they need some upper price range product for the enthusiast. I'm sure they will have something available to compete with Conroe very soon. They would be stupid not to. They would still be losing money due to the fact of faster system in the price margin window slightly above them.
 
I've seen so many of these posts, and they are always interesting. Unfortunately, most of us "civilians" all have access tot he same info, and the stuff that will answer our pointed questions are either locked down in NDA's or are closely guarded trade secrets currently.

Personally, I've seen the writing on the wall since intel released the Tualatin under the radar when the pentium 4 was their marketing vehicle. Now, what that writting was saying... at first I thought they were plastering the "We're a stupid company who knows how to drive a bad idea we've committed to so deep into the mud because we spent money on it, but when we see a good idea we know that we can sacrafice it to the marketing gods and then we will magically get money from our poor ideas, all because we're chipzilla and have been for years."

Of course this was not the right interpretation. What was really going on att he time was that eevelopement of low power chips based on the p3 architecture was being worked on, and the writing on the wall really said "we have this architecture now that works and has much room for improvement, and will sustain us in the industry while we develope something that will end up marking the future of microarchitecute."

So many people are focused on AMD vs Intel all the time, that not many stop to wonder about AMD/Intel vs themselves and time. For me, to think that these companies aren't watching eachother is stupid, but to think that each company isn't always looking at what they need to improve intheir own architecture is outright ludicrous.

That being said, we all know what the latest "news" says about the next big thing from each company, but most of us don't know (and those of us who do can't say) what is being worked on AS WE SPEAK that will change the face of our discussions entirely.

Quite frankly, I'm more interested in what AMD has to answer to X2 and AM2/3. Simply considering the vast differences in architecture between the p4 aand core architectures vs the HT architecture of AMD's chips, the potential for innovation is so different on both sides. What I really like about the whole scene right now is that Intel hasn't jumped on the integrated memory controller bandwagon, and AMD continues to collaborate with the HT working group for more possibilities in that architecture.

In my oppinion, the "answer to ..." between companies is for marketing people and the news for the masses, the people who actually think "centrino" means they can have wireless internet no matter where they go. Technology and engineering is much more than beating your competitor in a few time demos, but you'd like to think the end result of your work would result in some measurable and marketable performance gains, but that isn't always the case.
 
sifulee said:
Conroe is looking VERY impressive and a possible reason for me to switch back to Intel. I would really like to stay with AMD, what is there answer to Conroe?
Click to expand...

Just because Conroe comes out and smokes AMD whatever, doesn't mean your current processors sucks:) I'm going to replace a 3500+ as my main use system. If that were a Dual Core like yours, I'd not sure if I would upgrade or not.

IMHO, you might be worried about nothing.
 
No not a performance crown answer for Conroe this year. K8L for desktop is sometime away.

They are going to use the price hammer so they can stay somehwat close in price/performance but Conroe derivatives have AMD beat for the most part.
 
Wait.. so AMD just released AM2 using basically the exact same 939 processors revamped, but they aren't going to release any more AM2 processors this year that are on the level of Conroe? That sounds dumb. :confused:
 
wiretap said:
Wait.. so AMD just released AM2 using basically the exact same 939 processors revamped, but they aren't going to release any more AM2 processors this year that are on the level of Conroe? That sounds dumb. :confused:
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No, it's not "dumb" it's because they can't.

Socket AM2 allow AMD to utilize DDR2 memory which is getting continually cheaper as well as having larger densities.

There is simply nothing AMD can do about the performance crown this year, they can try to "fake it" with the 4x4 platform, even using Dual Athlon FX 62's with such a system your only going to be seeing gains in things that are designed to take advanatge of multithreading heavily, not to mention the outrageous cost.
 
If intel's latest cpu is only 10 precent faster than AMD's best, I'd still stay loyal to AMD.

IOW unless Conroe overwhelmingly beats AMD by a margin like Celeron loses to Sempron, I see no real reason to move other than EGO (attempt at humor there) or maybe if it's crucial to certain application for one to move. I'm sure there are more reasons however I do think that market price changes on AMD processors will move consumers into price vs performance ratio thinking .

Still pretty premature for me to throw comments out like that but it will be my philosophy going into this.
 
Pkirk618 said:
If intel's latest cpu is only 10 precent faster than AMD's best, I'd still stay loyal to AMD.

IOW unless Conroe overwhelmingly beats AMD by a margin like Celeron loses to Sempron, I see no real reason to move other than EGO or maybe if it's crucial to certain application for one to move. I'm sure there are more reasons but I think the price changes on AMD processors will move consumers into price vs performance ratio thinking process.

Still pretty premature for me to throw comments out like that but it will be my philosophy going into this.
Click to expand...
That's your choice.

The problem with this is, with how Conroe and Allendale are priced it's Intel that will be holding the price/performance crown not to mention were looking at ~ 20% more performance at the same price level.
 
Like I said, it's a way to think at the moment. I've loyal to AMD for a long time and I'd like to continue it.

But money always talks and we will have to wait and see. Many variables will have to be considered too. A mobo, CPU, DDR2 and depending if you're moving to PCIe for the first time are so important. This is where some of us will be trying to take the most cost effective way to upgrade with what we already have and hopefully only trail by that 10-15% on the Intel's latest.
 
coldpower27 said:
No, it's not "dumb" it's because they can't.

Socket AM2 allow AMD to utilize DDR2 memory which is getting continually cheaper as well as having larger densities.

There is simply nothing AMD can do about the performance crown this year, they can try to "fake it" with the 4x4 platform, even using Dual Athlon FX 62's with such a system your only going to be seeing gains in things that are designed to take advanatge of multithreading heavily, not to mention the outrageous cost.
Click to expand...
hmm.. but actually, that is dumb. They re-pin the 939's to a 940 which is different than the Opteron 940's, then have all the mobo manufacturers make a new style motherboard to fit it, use DDR2, then don't do anything with it at all except use the same 939 style processors....

Its like an automobile company such as GM making a whole new design for an engine bay for a car, making a new assembly line to do the task, mount the engine in the car sideways, and make it say "Flex Fuel Only" instead of 87 octane.. They basically accomplished nothing, got nowhere ahead, and lead themselves down a temporary dead end wasting their time. It really doesn't make sense, except only to put DDR2 in the machine only not to do anything with it but get slightly higher memory benchmarks.

So, what you are saying, is they are doing nothing more with the current AM2's? If so, that would nearly be the most short lived computer technology investment or implimentation I've seen. I mean, why even bother from their perspective. It seems like a waste of time and money instead of just making a great stride ahead to compete with Intel, or make it future upgradable for further AM2 models, something like Intel did with the P4. I'm sure AMD knew about Conroe some time before the public knew. They have people that leak information between the two companies to keep ahead.
 
wiretap said:
hmm.. but actually, that is dumb. They re-pin the 939's to a 940 which is different than the Opteron 940's, then have all the mobo manufacturers make a new style motherboard to fit it, use DDR2, then don't do anything with it at all except use the same 939 style processors....

Its like an automobile company such as GM making a whole new design for an engine bay for a car, making a new assembly line to do the task, mount the engine in the car sideways, and make it say "Flex Fuel Only" instead of 87 octane.. They basically accomplished nothing, got nowhere ahead, and lead themselves down a temporary dead end wasting their time. It really doesn't make sense, except only to put DDR2 in the machine only not to do anything with it but get slightly higher memory benchmarks.

So, what you are saying, is they are doing nothing more with the current AM2's? If so, that would nearly be the most short lived computer technology investment or implimentation I've seen. I mean, why even bother from their perspective. It seems like a waste of time and money instead of just making a great stride ahead to compete with Intel, or make it future upgradable for further AM2 models, something like Intel did with the P4. I'm sure AMD knew about Conroe some time before the public knew. They have people that leak information between the two companies to keep ahead.
Click to expand...
The pin change was necessary so people don't accidentally plug Opteron S940 or S939 processors with DDR1 memory controllers into Socket AM2 motherboards which require a DDR2 Controller.

There are many good reasons for the memory change. I am not saying AMD won't be doing anything, thye just won't be doing enough to re-take the performance crown. The memory change is needed because DDR production is contiuing to wind down and as supply slows the prices will rise for the memory. Unfortunately for AMD more memroy bandwidth is not something K8 architecture needs desperately hence we don't see much of a performance improvement. Not to mention they would look even more inferior to Intel if they continued to use DDR1 for much longer, remember consumer think DDR2 > DDR1.

We will have an Athlon FX 64 this year, though at 3.0GHZ it still won't beat Core 2 Extreme X6800, not to mention the impending X6900 Intel is releasing in Q4.


In addition by the end of the year we will have the 65nm Dual Core for the mainstream, not the high end to help AMD cut costs, but they are only for Socket AM2. They are not performance oriented so they won't re-take the performance crown.

Why bother because it would be getting quite risky remaining on a memory type which is getting phased out.

Don't worry Socket AM2 is likely to be with us till 2008 at the very least. It's hardly what I call short lived.
 
I will be building a Conroe rig in about....october.....I am not blindingly brand loyal, I buy whatever is fastest that I can afford at that time. Competition is good for us, the consumer. And with Conroe, it looks like Intel is going to hold a fair performance lead AND price lead too... *thumbs up*


This rig will get good use at that point as a backup/folding/server rig.....or for frag sessions with my friends on the mini LAN here....
 
Pkirk618 said:
FX62 for 250.00 works for me lol
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Not going to happen.
wink.gif
 
Pkirk618 said:
Like I said, it's a way to think at the moment. I've loyal to AMD for a long time and I'd like to continue it.

But money always talks and we will have to wait and see. Many variables will have to be considered too. A mobo, CPU, DDR2 and depending if you're moving to PCIe for the first time are so important. This is where some of us will be trying to take the most cost effective way to upgrade with what we already have and hopefully only trail by that 10-15% on the Intel's latest.
Click to expand...

To each his or her own! Be loyal to those who are loyal to you. Sorry, AMD hasn't been. X2 prices RIGHTLY show who they care about and I don't blame them. Being loyal creates stagnation and make both AMD and Intel lazy. The only real thing I'm loyal to is my wallet.
 
bill_k123 said:
I think the FX's are going to remain the same price. :confused:
Click to expand...

No, they're supposed to match Intel prices to the nearest GHz or just below them. So FX-62 will still cost about $600, just an est. AMD will still try to sell FX-64 for the same $1000 as the E6800. Sweet deal might be on the FX-60 if you can find one.
 
I know that AM2 technology is too "green", but I prefer to wait for Q4.

The DDR2 advantage on the AM2 is for 2.2GHz or up processors, Conroe it's going to become in the big bang for the buck in price/perfomance.

Just wait.

Wait for the "price drop"
Wait for a real Conroe Test Drive, not the "closed" presentation where the attendants only saw what the Intel presentators want to show.

Just wait.

Meanwhile, save some money, beacuse any attempt to "climb" to the wave crest will be expensive.
 
I guess we will find out when Conroe is released. For us AMD guys it will be hard to admit that after so long of having the best performance for the buck, that Intel just might soon have that title.
 
munkle said:
The OP's post seems to me like he can't get around the fact that Intel has Amd beat right now and theres nothing Amd has right now to beat Intel and wont for a while. Theres tons of posts like this, people just can't handle that Intel is now where the proformance is at. I have an Amd right now as it is, I go with what ever will be cheapest and give good performance, and when I bought my pc it was Amd. I don't see why this is a big deal, I mean do you really want Amd to be in the lead all the time, compitition is good for a reason, it drives prices down. Look at the huge price drops that are coming when conroe comes out, do you really think they would be there if conroe had the AM2 performance increases over the current generation.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I am just way off, but I fail to see how Intel is currently crushing AMD so mercilessly in the performance arena when their champion chips have yet to hit store shelves.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm as excited as anyone about upgrading my now nearly 2 year old s939 rig to a Conroe platform when they are readily available for sale, but until I can go out and buy the chip from a store (or at least see some actual prices and performance comparisons of non-engineering samples :rolleyes: ) I don't really think it's accurate to declare that Intel is "where the proformance is at."

The benchmarks I have seen so far look very promising, and I have no doubt that Intel will only improve, but ffs wait until the teams show up at the stadium to pass out the trophies.
 
Pkirk618 said:
IOW unless Conroe overwhelmingly beats AMD by a margin like Celeron loses to Sempron, I see no real reason to move other than EGO (attempt at humor there) or maybe if it's crucial to certain application for one to move
Click to expand...
It does beat AMD by a massive margin, and those are just engineering samples.
Conroe procs are already @ sub 10 seconds in superpi, whereas the fastest AMD pi run ever was > 20 seconds.
Before Futuremark decided to only allow conroe benches after their official release, all the top records were with conroe procs, annihilating previous amd scores.
Hell the cheapest shittiest E4200 allendale chip has been oc'd to perform better than a FX60.

Kudos to intel for coming back with a vengeance, but kudos to AMD also for giving intel some motivation to push forward. Competition is good for the consumer :)
 
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