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Do I really need an SSD?

M

maverick786us

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I have recently ordered HP Envy TouchSmart 15 with following config

1) 4th Generation Core i7 Quad Core 4700MQ
2) 8GB RAM
3) 1TB 5400 HDD
4) NVIDIA GeForce GT 740M
5) 1920 X 1080 display with FHD BrightView LED Backlit Display with Multi-touch

Now I will use this laptop for multi-purpose function. Like ...
1) Entertainment
2) Seldom Light gaming (I know 740 is nothing for 1080P display)
4) Development since I will develop WP8 applications and

Most important, I will use Virtual PC in which I will have Windows 2008 server with
1) Visual Studio 2010 for ASP.NET development
2) SharePoint 2010. Offoucrse I will use it for learning purpose not for commercial hoasting
3) SQL Server 2008

Now my friends told me that this doesn't have an SSD, therefore I won't be able to use the full potential of this power 4th generation Haswell. So do I really need an SSD for these purpose? I know that if i replace the original HDD or RAM, it will void the warranty. But in case anything happens to the laptop and I have to take it to the service centre, I can always replace the original component before taking it to service centre.

What is your suggestion?
 
A 5400 RPM HD certainly will not release "the full potential" of your machine. The difference in read and write bandwidth between your listed HD and any new SSD will be staggering.
 
nakedhand said:
A 5400 RPM HD certainly will not release "the full potential" of your machine. The difference in read and write bandwidth between your listed HD and any new SSD will be staggering.
Click to expand...


Yes I know SSD is most innovative thing that came to PC industry after dual cores and for high end gaming PC it will make a difference. But for development, hoasting, how much will it benificial?

Will Sharepoint immediately drain the write cycle of SSD and will reduce its life?
 
Just get with the times man. Get an SSD because its 2013. Swap out the mechanical drive and put it in an external eSata/USB enclosure. Are you really questioning your friend's advice?

The SSD was pretty much the answer to the last bottle neck of PC's. Its a bottleneck that applies to more than just "high end gaming". It improves performance across everything. And honestly, an SSD really doesn't help in gaming all that much in terms of frames per second.

LOL at "drain my write cycles". Dude just get an Intel 520 series drive. You never mentioned cost as a factor anyways so I don't know why else someone would skimp out on this after going Haswell.

If you were to ever host files on an SSD in an enterprise environment, you would need to go to all out on SAS interfaces across all SSD's. That requires true RAID PCI-e adapters ($400 to $1000+), SAS SSD's (more $). My point is, is don't even worry about that shit until it happens.

When it comes to SSD's, I am an Intel Nut hugger by heart. I say that for a good reason though. In the early days in 2009-10, all other SSD manufacturers made imitation drives. If you bought OCZ or Crucial drives, you would constantly need a firmware update because they were buggy hunks of shit. Also keep in mind that Intel puts a 5 year warranty on their SSD's as opposed to Corsair's 3 year warranty. And Intel has the least amount of RMA's to date. I don't care if Samsung makes a drive that's marginally faster and can beat an Intel in performance. At the performance levels of SSD's today, you won't even notice the difference gain because these fuckers are so fast.
 
Last edited:
I'm getting a similar system- Lenovo 410p, and I'll be upgrading to an SSD as soon as I see one on sale for a decent price.
 
MooCow said:
Just get with the times man. Get an SSD because its 2013. Swap out the mechanical drive and put it in an external eSata/USB enclosure. Are you really questioning your friend's advice?

The SSD was pretty much the answer to the last bottle neck of PC's. Its a bottleneck that applies to more than just "high end gaming". It improves performance across everything. And honestly, an SSD really doesn't help in gaming all that much in terms of frames per second.

LOL at "drain my write cycles". Dude just get an Intel 520 series drive. You never mentioned cost as a factor anyways so I don't know why else someone would skimp out on this after going Haswell.

If you were to ever host files on an SSD in an enterprise environment, you would need to go to all out on SAS interfaces across all SSD's. That requires true RAID PCI-e adapters ($400 to $1000+), SAS SSD's (more $). My point is, is don't even worry about that shit until it happens.

When it comes to SSD's, I am an Intel Nut hugger by heart. I say that for a good reason though. In the early days in 2009-10, all other SSD manufacturers made imitation drives. If you bought OCZ or Crucial drives, you would constantly need a firmware update because they were buggy hunks of shit. Also keep in mind that Intel puts a 5 year warranty on their SSD's as opposed to Corsair's 3 year warranty. And Intel has the least amount of RMA's to date.
Click to expand...


At best I can afford 100$ for an SSD. So if I can get a 256GB its all good otherwise I will be fine with an 128GB SSD. I am learning sharepoint, won't do any commercial hoasting on this laptop.
 
maverick786us said:
What is your suggestion?
Click to expand...
1) Go as fast as you can afford towards the SSD route - especially with virtualisation
2) Consider moving from Win7 to Win8 due to Hyper-V support in Win8. HyperV is much better performance wise than VirtualPC and it supports 64bit VMs (Which you need to have for any Windows Server OS starting with WS 2008 R2)
 
SSD is the single best upgrade for a laptop, even more than for desktop. Especially for VMs.

Why would you lose warranty?
 
Meeho said:
SSD is the single best upgrade for a laptop, even more than for desktop. Especially for VMs.

Why would you lose warranty?
Click to expand...

I think changing any hardware like HDD or RAM might void the warranty. Unless I ask HP to replace these hardwares, for which HP will charge considerable amount
 
RevMen said:
I don't think that's a very compelling reason to get the more expensive drive. If you don't need it, why pay for it?
Click to expand...

I will not go for any SSD more expensive than 100$. But if it will enhance the performance upto great extent, I can go for it
 
maverick786us said:
I will not go for any SSD more expensive than 100$. But if it will enhance the performance upto great extent, I can go for it
Click to expand...

It will greatly enhance your performance upgrading from the 5400 RPM drive. Performance increases you should see:

Booting up, Application load times, Switching Applications, Read/Wirte performance.

You don't even need to get an ultra expensive one, you can get significant increase even from a lower cost SSD.

Also another good reason for SSD drives in portable systems is that they are not affected by motion. Mechanical drives can still have issues when they are swung around like in a laptop bag or backpack or even regular carrying, especially while the system is in operation. The SSD doesn't have those same mechanical parts and so you can swing it around all you like and it doesn't mind...just as long as you don't drop it too far and break it.
 
Save up until you have enough for a 256GB Samsung 840 Pro. It's the current performance and low power draw leader, which makes it the best choice for a mobile computing environment.
 
maverick786us said:
What are access panels? Can you explain this in details, how is it realted to the warranty
Click to expand...

Laptop-with-two-internal-HD.jpg


Most laptops have easy access to HDD and RAM on the bottom. In that case warranty is not void if you change them yourself. Check your manual and/or call the support to check.

As for SSDs, don't bother with performance between them. You can't feel the difference 99% of the time. Go for higher capacity/longer warranty/cheaper.
 
Meeho said:
As for SSDs, don't bother with performance between them. You can't feel the difference 99% of the time. Go for higher capacity/longer warranty/cheaper.
Click to expand...

I just want to point out that the above statement is plain wrong.

Anyway if you decide to step into 2013 and equip your very nice laptop with an SSD. Get a quality SSD with TRIM. Make sure you are happy with the advertised lifespan (total reads&writes). Cheapest SSDs might not have TRIM, which is essential, and are generally just too much of a gamble.
 
I believe any current "Brand new" non 1st gen SSD will have trim. I would personally stay away from Sandforce controllers. I personally prefer Marvell or the Samsung SSDs.


Samsung 840, 840 Pro, 840 EVO (If available)

Sandisk Extreme II
 
Do you need it? No. Will you notice a difference? Hell yes. A large one over that slow 5400 RPM drive. You will give up storage space unless it has two slots for an HDD (which you could go with a small 160-256 GB OS/Dev drive and a 1 TB storage drive).

It's a big jump from what you currently have, and a very noticeable difference. But, do you really need it? No. (I convinced myself that I do NEED it, because SSD's are awesome and very fast. But, I just want that speed).
 
MooCow said:
Just get with the times man. Get an SSD because its 2013. Swap out the mechanical drive and put it in an external eSata/USB enclosure. Are you really questioning your friend's advice?

The SSD was pretty much the answer to the last bottle neck of PC's. Its a bottleneck that applies to more than just "high end gaming". It improves performance across everything. And honestly, an SSD really doesn't help in gaming all that much in terms of frames per second.

LOL at "drain my write cycles". Dude just get an Intel 520 series drive. You never mentioned cost as a factor anyways so I don't know why else someone would skimp out on this after going Haswell.

If you were to ever host files on an SSD in an enterprise environment, you would need to go to all out on SAS interfaces across all SSD's. That requires true RAID PCI-e adapters ($400 to $1000+), SAS SSD's (more $). My point is, is don't even worry about that shit until it happens.

When it comes to SSD's, I am an Intel Nut hugger by heart. I say that for a good reason though. In the early days in 2009-10, all other SSD manufacturers made imitation drives. If you bought OCZ or Crucial drives, you would constantly need a firmware update because they were buggy hunks of shit. Also keep in mind that Intel puts a 5 year warranty on their SSD's as opposed to Corsair's 3 year warranty. And Intel has the least amount of RMA's to date. I don't care if Samsung makes a drive that's marginally faster and can beat an Intel in performance. At the performance levels of SSD's today, you won't even notice the difference gain because these fuckers are so fast.
Click to expand...

Was? More like an SSD is the answer to THE last easily-curable bottleneck - HDD I/O.

Unless you plan on getting really spendy with Velociraptors in RAID 0, you simply won't break 5.9 in terms of WEI disk subscore with a single mechanical HDD alone. Not even a Seagate Barracuda II or WD Caviar Black will do it. On the other hand, practically any 7200rpm drive with a decently-sized buffer will spit out a 5.9 in WEI - my WD Caviar Green does so all day, and it was originally a MyBook drive. (Greens are known for being energy-sippers - not thoroughbreds like their pricier Black relatives.) Portable HDDs (laptops and notebooks) are far worse than desktops in terms of HDD I/O - because they still tend to have slower 5400 rpm HDDs due to size constraints - it's one reason why the biggest push by SSD manufacturers is aimed at laptop and notebook owners even today.

Due to my recent GPU upgrade, my boot HDD is now the "weakest link" - again, with that 5.9 WEI. Using an SSD for booting makes sense for the same reason thumb drives are replacing optical drives - and, surprisingly, the biggest advantage thumb drives have today is performance, not portability, compared to optical media. Lastly, with 120GB SSDs now commonly in the $100US/100-euro price range (for the most reliable brands - Intel. Samsung, Plextor, SanDisk), there's little reason NOT to get one.
 
Meeho said:
Laptop-with-two-internal-HD.jpg


Most laptops have easy access to HDD and RAM on the bottom. In that case warranty is not void if you change them yourself. Check your manual and/or call the support to check.

As for SSDs, don't bother with performance between them. You can't feel the difference 99% of the time. Go for higher capacity/longer warranty/cheaper.
Click to expand...

Wow I didn't know that these new laptops will have 2 slots for HDD. That way I can use both drives. SSD for OS and the existing HDD for storage. Although I have to wait for my order to deliver and see if it has 2 panels
 
nakedhand said:
I just want to point out that the above statement is plain wrong.

Anyway if you decide to step into 2013 and equip your very nice laptop with an SSD. Get a quality SSD with TRIM. Make sure you are happy with the advertised lifespan (total reads&writes). Cheapest SSDs might not have TRIM, which is essential, and are generally just too much of a gamble.
Click to expand...

What is TRIM in this context?
 
maverick786us said:
Wow I didn't know that these new laptops will have 2 slots for HDD. That way I can use both drives. SSD for OS and the existing HDD for storage. Although I have to wait for my order to deliver and see if it has 2 panels
Click to expand...

Some do, some don't. Laptops are a lot different than your average desktop since it's up to the manufacture as to how its built.
 
nakedhand said:
I just want to point out that the above statement is plain wrong.

Anyway if you decide to step into 2013 and equip your very nice laptop with an SSD. Get a quality SSD with TRIM. Make sure you are happy with the advertised lifespan (total reads&writes). Cheapest SSDs might not have TRIM, which is essential, and are generally just too much of a gamble.
Click to expand...

I don't think I am the one who needs to step into 2013. TRIM support? That was an issue a long time ago. And lifespan is a non issue even longer, if it ever was.
 
Meeho said:
I don't think I am the one who needs to step into 2013. TRIM support? That was an issue a long time ago. And lifespan is a non issue even longer, if it ever was.
Click to expand...
Seriously.

TRIM was never an SSD problem....the controller was.

nakedhand if you're going to give advice get to know what you're talking about. ;)
 
depends if you need speed or storage. speed: go for the SSD, storage: go for a Seagate ST4000DM000 4TB HDD.
sure you got 1tb SSDs but they cost more than a new mac, i got a 4TB HDD for $178 and it's plenty fast for me.
 
maverick786us said:
Yes I know SSD is most innovative thing that came to PC industry after dual cores and for high end gaming PC it will make a difference. But for development, hoasting, how much will it benificial?

Will Sharepoint immediately drain the write cycle of SSD and will reduce its life?
Click to expand...

Will this make a difference to you?
Yes, absolutely. SSDs are like The Matrix; You can not possibly comprehend how much of a difference SSDs make without experiencing it yourself. For development in particular. You will save an immense amount of time that would otherwise be literally wasted sitting at progress bars or waiting for builds. My lead at work did not really believe me until we hooked up his notebook with a 256GB Crucial drive. His mind was blown.

Hosting, etc.:
If you're running local IIS or virtual machines then yes to all of that. I just upped myself to SSDs in RAID0 so I could add on some space and run my SQL guest more quickly. The boot time on my Server 2012 guest is now faster than the boot time on the host machine itself.

Will Sharepoint drain the write cycle of the SSD?
Not any more than it would doing any other sort of development work. Just don't buy a crap SSD. Get a Samsung 840 Pro or, if you're a little more budget conscious, something from Crucial. You're not going to proceed at a budget under $100 though. Save up and buy something good at a 240-512GB capacity.

You really really just do not realize what a difference it makes. It's not just about gaming, it's about everything.
 
Thank you so much. I will save some money and buy a 256GB Samsung 840 Pro. Since my order will take some more days to deliver. Any of you guys who owns an HP Envy TouchSmart JXXX series, does it have 2 slots for hard disk?
 
Just FYI, my 5 year old core2duo based laptop is faster (booting, opening apps etc), than a brand new quad core dell precision laptop just out of the box. It's crazy how much traditional drives hold computers back.
 
It's weird that HP doesn't offer any way to buy an Envy 15" with an SSD already installed. What, is this 2008?

I'm not sure whether that machine has two bays. If it does, excellent - you can replace the boot drive with an SSD and still have your 1 TB HDD for more but slower storage.

If not, it seems silly to be paying twice - once for the HDD you won't use, and again for the SSD. I guess you could mount the HDD in an enclosure and use it to backup your laptop, but that's even more money you'd have to spend.
 
Rvenger said:
I believe any current "Brand new" non 1st gen SSD will have trim. I would personally stay away from Sandforce controllers. I personally prefer Marvell or the Samsung SSDs.


Samsung 840, 840 Pro, 840 EVO (If available)

Sandisk Extreme II
Click to expand...

I dont understand as to why you would not want TRIM option. I have heard sandforce based drives works well when TRIM is enabled which is by default. I dont think anyone else would decide to stay away from sandforce for the reason you are quoting. Its kind of funny ;)
 
Is Samsung 840 Pro an mSATA SSD? I just got an info that HP Envy TouchSmart 15 does have a user access panel but I need an mSATA drive, so that I can keep both the drives.
 
Nope. Crucial M4 comes in mSATA, and that would be my choice for that format.
 
maverick786us said:
Can you provide me some more examples of mSATA SSD that will perfectly suit for my laptop?
Click to expand...

Sure thing.

-Crucial M4
-Crucial M500
-Plextor M5M
-Intel 525

I've included Intel and, while they are very good drives, they are about 50% more money than the others. Out of those I listed, I would flip a coin between the M4 and M5M (or grab whichever of the two is cheapest).
 
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