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Do I need to be an audiophile...

C

CuE0083

n00b
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
62
...to appreciate a sound card? I am asking because I want to purchase an external sound card for my laptop and I wanted to know how much of a difference in sound quality I will notice. Is the difference between a sound card and onboard audio night and day? Also can anyone recommend some good external usb sound cards?
 
The word audiophile is [SIZE=-1]from Latin audire "to hear" and Greek philos "loving"[/SIZE]. A fisherman is someone who loves to fish. Audiophiles are like fishermen because no matter how advanced of equipment they have, they can still enjoy what they do and try to know about it in limitless detail. If you enjoy audio and strive for more knowledge regarding audio like a fisherman strives to know about fishing, you are an audiophile.
 
I think you have to have a certain amount of paying attention to the sound, rather than the music. I don't think the term audiophile nowadays is used as simply "music lover". You can be a music lover all you want, but I wouldn't call you an audiophile based on that. You have to focus on the sound, and the details that make that sound, at least to a certain degree, rather than just enjoying it. I'm sure someone will say "in the end, it's all about the music". For most people yes, but for audiophiles, I wouldn't count on it.
 
I appreciate the responses but my main question is whether or not switching from integrated audio to a sound card will produce a large difference in sound quality.
 
How large is the difference that you're expecting? That's probably the best start to answering your good question.
 
Volucris said:
The word audiophile is [SIZE=-1]from Latin audire "to hear" and Greek philos "loving"[/SIZE]. A fisherman is someone who loves to fish. Audiophiles are like fishermen because no matter how advanced of equipment they have, they can still enjoy what they do and try to know about it in limitless detail. If you enjoy audio and strive for more knowledge regarding audio like a fisherman strives to know about fishing, you are an audiophile.
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kudos for that post..

But that didn't really answer the question..
I really want an answer to the OP's question as well. I appreciate music, but if I spend $100 on a sound-card for no discernible difference..

But like.. any decent $20 earbuds makes a world's difference when you compare it to notebook speakers. If a $100 sound-card makes 1/10th of that difference, I think it's definitely worth it.
 
Modern, since about the P965 have all had very good quality onboard audio solutions from everything I've heard.

Though, I still use an expansion card specifically for the hardware acceleration in gaming.
 
Pinipig523 said:
How large is the difference that you're expecting? That's probably the best start to answering your good question.
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As another poster mentioned, I want to know if the difference is comparable to when you upgrade from $20 earbuds to something like the Sennheiser HD-555 (which I have).
 
Cyrilix said:
I don't think the term audiophile nowadays is used as simply "music lover". You can be a music lover all you want, but I wouldn't call you an audiophile based on that.
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An audiophile is, literally, a person that "loves to hear" or "loves to listen", and that doesn't apply to music specifically. I'm not a "music lover", I don't think, but I'm a textbook audiophile.

dandragonrage said:
No, the difference will not be major.
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It really depends. There are way too many factors to call it either way -- what kind of onboard, what sound card, what speakers, what kind of room, and so on and so forth. These are all big factors here.

With JBL Creature Speakers, will the difference be major? No. With B&W Nautilus 802s? Unquestionably. I'd guess the OP's closer to the Creature Speaker end of the spectrum, though.
 
Well, what I meant in my initial post was, you have to at least care and pay attention to the differences for any audio upgrade short of horrible -> good to be of value. I know plenty (90%+ of people I know) that wouldn't give two shits quite simply because they don't actually listen to the sound at all, until it becomes horrible to a really horrible point, which modern integrated sound cards won't do (the technology is actually half-decent nowadays). So, to reiterate, no, unless you are an audiophile or at least have audiophile tendencies rather than just being "another casual consumer".
 
phide said:
It really depends. There are way too many factors to call it either way -- what kind of onboard, what sound card, what speakers, what kind of room, and so on and so forth. These are all big factors here.

With JBL Creature Speakers, will the difference be major? No. With B&W Nautilus 802s? Unquestionably. I'd guess the OP's closer to the Creature Speaker end of the spectrum, though.
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Well I have a pair of Sennheiser HD-555 and the Logitech Z-2300 2.1 system if that helps. I am not too sure about what type of onboard audio I have but they describe it as being "HD audio". Here is a link to the audio codec: http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/...d=1&PNid=24&PFid=27&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=140
 
I'd probably get a sound card in that case. The Logitechs aren't stellar, but your cans will benefit from a better source. I probably wouldn't spend more than $80 or so, unless you have plans to upgrade your speakers or headphones later on, in which case it might make sense to spend more (though there's a big gap between the sub-$100 market and the $200+ market that isn't really being adequately filled).

Check out Chaintech's AV-710 if you don't intend to upgrade for a while (or ever), and the b-Enspirer or the Inferno 7.1 if you do. If you're a gamer, take a look at refurbed Audigy 2 ZSs on eBay from Creative, or the X-Fi XtremeGamer if you're willing to spend a bit more.
 
it seems everyone is missing that he has a laptop and wants a usb solution. the onboard realtek is probably as good as most usb cards except for the more expensive cards. i have a c-media chip usb card thats just a little better than my laptop and an Extigy which is much better (but large and cumbersome)
i believe that E-mu has a nice usb solution
 
M-audio has some rather nice USB and firewire options.

@OP: Do you notice a hum and/or hiss in your headphones especially, one that cannot be attributed to music you're playing? That is to say, that it's always there? If so, then you will benefit. I generally assume this is a given, but other posts make me doubt that.
 
I'm not sure about the sound card in your laptop, but my onboard sound in my Dell XPS M140 sucks pretty badly. If I hook up my stereo to it, it has a buzzing and hissing and such in the background as an ambient noise.

I can't recommend anything because I have tried the Sound Blaster Extigy and a small little external card made by Turtle Beach Micro 5.1. The Extigy sucked cuz of driver support is no longer there and the Turtle Beach worked okay when it was working but it seemed really buggy about how I connected it with USB (such as I had to use the provided extension cord to get it to work?)

In terms of quality, I think it's that hissing and buzzing that makes the most difference. Even standard actual music I can't tell that much although when you start cranking the volumes with onboard, the bass becomes pretty lacking and the treble sounds kind of shaky.

I don't know exactly what I just said but basically it all depends on that hiss and buzz.
 
Well IMO, if your expecting to be utterly floored by whatever in audio you are purchasing, meh...unless you go balls out at the start, each upgrade to me is an incromental upgrade, unlike buying a new 2K overclocked rig when your coming from a sh1tty pIII, or a 30inch LCD from a 15" crt


IMO of course, others will say a step up from their high entry level amp to a more expensive amp is a "night and day" difference

Im just getting into the audio game so my opinion is much less weighted than others

Hope this helps

Cata1yst
 
I would suggest Nuforce Udac for your price range. USB input, headphone and rca output - and great quality all around.
 
Yeah if you're just after some music go for a decent USB DAC like the Nuforce. You don't need any fancy positional gaming stuff for that, just something to take digital and make analog and do it well. You will definetly notice the difference, especially with your headphones.

Dustin
 
CuE0083 said:
Would anyone recommend the Astro MixAmp over a soundcard?
Click to expand...

and.....thread REVIVE.

i believe the general consensus is that the mixamp is a very nice piece of equipment, though a bit pricy for what it does.
 
what i have noticed is that there is little difference between onboard audio and a mid grade sound card while listening to mp3s. but when listening to a full data cd i noticed a small difference, it was just more crisp sounding.
 
hard-in-da-paint said:
what i have noticed is that there is little difference between onboard audio and a mid grade sound card while listening to mp3s. but when listening to a full data cd i noticed a small difference, it was just more crisp sounding.
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Then you don't have very good ears. Even average-quality MP3s sound a lot better with a half-decent sound card than they do with onboard audio. The main advantages of dedicated sound cards are much better SnRs and better amplification compared to onboard.
 
Zero82z said:
Then you don't have very good ears. Even average-quality MP3s sound a lot better with a half-decent sound card than they do with onboard audio. The main advantages of dedicated sound cards are much better SnRs and better amplification compared to onboard.
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i agree, but i've read many other people claiming they cannot tell the difference between dedicated and on-board. a lot of variables play a role in this, but i say if you can't hear a difference then consider yourself lucky as you can save some money.
 
It also depends on what kind of stereo you have. If I run analogue out of my sound card, it sounds like I am listening to a static prone radio station. That is probably as much to do with grounding as anything but with digital or usb input the sound is so clear it fools my cat. When I play witcher 2, the bird sounds are so realistic that she comes in the room looking for a snack.

Now with onboard digital, the sound is more compressed sounding. Not as bad for music as it is in games but still the sound stage is smaller and there is less detail and realism.

If all you have is a simple pc speaker or headset, you will not notice as much of a difference as I will. Also, if you tend to crank it, there is distortion anyway and both will sound similar if your system is limited at high db.
 
There shouldn't be any difference in what comes out the digital outputs, it SHOULD be the output of the MP3/FLAC/whatever decoder, in PCM format, piped out bit for bit. Any variation on this is something software related, and has nothing to do with the actual hardware involved. SPDIF is a data interface, like ethernet or USB (but unidirectional and at a much lower data rate), it's just a way to send bits from one device to another. I'm guessing that what you're hearing as less "compressed" sounding is a Creative Crystalizer or something like that, and it's applying effects before outputting the signal digitally.

Analog is obviously different, but analog output is really what an aftermarket sound card is designed to improve. Higher quality analog components, better isolation from noise inside the PC, better opamps to bring the signal up to line level. You shouldn't have any audible noise coming through, if you do there's a grounding problem for sure, every single Creative card I've owned has had this problem to the extent that I needed to use a ground loop isolator between the sound card and the amplifier. When I installed a non Creative sound card a few years ago, the problem went away and I can run direct leads to the amp, it picks up nothing that I can hear.
 
I do hear a difference via digital. It is the noise floor though. The bits are the same yes. I only hear the difference when I do not utilize my external dac and do a bypass. This means the digital sound is directly from the source. Probably just more EMI noise in the mobo than the sound card.

For games, obviously there is more of a difference using eax and 3DCMSS. I do not use the crystalizer.
 
Digital signals don't convey analog noise (such as EMI). The noise floor in the digital realm is determined by the sample size (16 vs 24 bits for example), not by any electrical characteristics of the means of digital transfer. The exact same bits can be carried on an optical cable which doesn't carry an electrical signal at all.
 
I've been really happy with the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD Sound Card (external USB) and Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones. I think it's about as good as you can get for under $200.
 
Zero82z said:
Then you don't have very good ears. Even average-quality MP3s sound a lot better with a half-decent sound card than they do with onboard audio.
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Not always the case. There are good onboard solutions and bad onboard solutions (or, rather, just "mediocre" ones), and good onboard solutions can compete with decent sound cards in meaningful metrics. In the world of audio, things are never particularly cut and dry, and without blind A/B comparisons, rarely can you ever be absolutely certain of anything.

Now, anyone else find it odd that the OP asked this question four years ago and apparently still hasn't gotten a sound card?
 
dustNbone said:
Digital signals don't convey analog noise (such as EMI). The noise floor in the digital realm is determined by the sample size (16 vs 24 bits for example), not by any electrical characteristics of the means of digital transfer. The exact same bits can be carried on an optical cable which doesn't carry an electrical signal at all.
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Ah yes. The X-Fi does 24 and the onboard was default at 16. That was the compression difference. The analogue has the noise. Have not done that in a long time and have forgotten.
 
Except your music almost certainly consists of 16 bit audio, so there is only 16 bits of information to decode into analog at your receiver (or the sound cards DAC if you're using analog output). The S/PDIF standard actually specifies 20 bits, and some equipment supports 24 bits, but CD Audio is 44100 16 bits samples per second per channel, and any interface that conforms to the S/PDIF standard can convey this signal bit for bit. Any variation on this is a loss of fidelity, whether it sounds better or not. I know alot of Creatives cards resample all inputs to 48kHz for example, then apply whatever effects are enabled (CMSS, Crystalizer, etc) and output digitally at whatever they're set to output (default is probably 48 with 96 or maybe even 192 selectable). This involves alot of digital processing and the signal that comes out is far from an accurate reproduction of the original CD audio, though it may "sound better". If you're listening to CD Audio on your PC and it's being output digitally your receiver should be getting a 44.1kHz input, some receivers can tell you what they're getting and some cannot but that's a good indicator on where to start. Some sound cards will need some fiddling to even get that done, but the difference in quality on a good sound system is immediate. This quality increase isn't because of any special effects to "improve" the sound, it's because of the absence of alteration to the original signal, by letting it pass untouched from the CD to the DAC(s). If you want to alter the sound (bass, treble, etc) it's better to do this on your receiver (if your receiver doesn't suck), where a good unit will handle these things in the analog domain after the bit perfect digital audio has been converted into as accurate of an analog signal as possible.
 
Why has this thread moved this far along without anybody asking what speakers/headphones the OP is using?
 
CuE0083 said:
As another poster mentioned, I want to know if the difference is comparable to when you upgrade from $20 earbuds to something like the Sennheiser HD-555 (which I have).
Click to expand...

I'm guessing he's using Senn 555s?
 
An audiophile is a person who likes to justify their purchases of placebos (cables, DACs, etc.) A fisherman doesn't love to fish, they do so as either a job or to feed their family. A person who just goes to fish and drink beer is called a redneck. All I have is an evil X-Fi card and I use my cheap HD428 headphones through the front port. I didn't think it sounded good at first, but the ears are the factor that breaks in, not the hardware. The only thing I will ever change is to a Titanium HD and some HD650s. Electrical noise inside a case? Made up phooey. Just because a CPU operates at GHz doesn't mean it turns a computer into a microwave radio... Jitter is another phantom BS thing.
 
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