discussing the warez problem

oqvist

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
8,936
Yes you would wish you could return games you didn´t like within a certain time span. But of course because of this piracy plague computer stores aren´t to fond of that and noone wants to buy an used game anyway :).
 

loonym

n00b
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
29
FluxCap said:
Also, before you claim that you know what my impression of the world is make sure you don't insult someone with several college degrees who has a good idea how many things work.
For someone with a head full of school smarts and a box full of degrees you certainly don't exhibit a very good grasp of the law or even the practicality of anti-pirate measures. Your shoot from the hip, right wing views might have played well with the professors but your statements and suggested actions are very poorly thought out.
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
loonym said:
For someone with a head full of school smarts and a box full of degrees you certainly don't exhibit a very good grasp of the law or even the practicality of anti-pirate measures. Your shoot from the hip, right wing views might have played well with the professors but your statements and suggested actions are very poorly thought out.

agreed.

Your awareness of other countries really shows in the things that you say. If you put your opinions here, I will judge away...
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
Munka said:
how is that jurisdiction for iD?

and on an international level... well, things like this do not work im afraid.

what about nations who have not joined? or who simply do not uphold this sort of treaty?

read it

and this while your at it http://www.wipo.int/

to say that international law has no impact is less than a considered opinion
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
592
... Hizerz!!! :rolleyes:

I am teh 15 year old kid who works at teh Hardon's who makes teh biscuits and teh crappy Angus burgers and I think teh pirating is teh okay because it costs too much and its free in fact if you stole from me I think it would be teh okay because things cost too much but I would be sad I think everything should be free I want to sit around be a bum and do nothing k thanz bye :rolleyes:
 

Cigolon

Gawd
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
908
do i think companys overcharge for software? yes. ex. windows.
do i think that video game companys are one of those? not usually. games are usually made with some sort of risk, especially assuming its not a company as big as ID or EA. the problem i have with a lot of video game companys is not listening or just using things as an excuse to bring out an expansion. ie, nfs:u. the second one was in the works before the first one even shipped with all the changes that everyone wanted so drastically when they finially got a chance to play it. does that mean you should download the game? no. unless of course you're one of those commie bastards thats gonna invade our midwest...er..sorry. i just watched red dawn :(. but anyway. as many gripes as people may have with games or their producers, stealing it doesn't really make the problem go away. it just adds you too it.

i spend a lot of time reading a lot of different reviews, watching demos, talking to people. i rarely get a game and its not exactly what i expected. like movies in that way. i think thats what most people dont do. they dont really research games, they assume.
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
Ice Czar said:
read it

and this while your at it http://www.wipo.int/

to say that international law has no impact is less than a considered opinion

read what I said

"FOR ID"

FLuxCap was suggesting this:
Why does id not document the ip address of each person downloading Doom 3 and fine them?

then consider that countries are in no way forced to respect these laws and they, by and large, do not. How many years have oyu lived abroad and seen this, by the way?
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
Munka said:
But really, how can ID claim any jurisiction over people in other countries,.

Munka said:
how is that jurisdiction for iD?

and on an international level... well, things like this do not work im afraid.

what about nations who have not joined? or who simply do not uphold this sort of treaty?

Munka said:
read what I said

"FOR ID"

the way I see it your could either
A. read the links
B. Enroll in a college
C. simply post "Im too lazy to determine the answer for myself and require a someone to supply the cliff notes"

http://www.idsoftware.com/business/technology/

ID is in Texas, Texas is a part of the USA (most of the time, and under international law at least) the US is a signatory
 

DigitalD

n00b
Joined
Jun 14, 2004
Messages
30
doh-nut said:
you pirates are going to love palladium and DRM

Maybe you are excited about the prospect of microsoft telling you what you can and cannot do with your PC, but I for one find it pretty scary, whats comes after that? monitoring my clipboard to see if I copied text that has been copyrighted. RESIST THIS SH*T!
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
Ice Czar said:
the way I see it your could either
A. read the links
B. Enroll in a college
C. simply post "Im too lazy to determine the answer for myself and require a someone to supply the cliff notes"

http://www.idsoftware.com/business/technology/

ID is in Texas, Texas is a part of the USA (most of the time, and under international law at least) the US is a signatory

whatever, simply because iD believes that they have been wronged does not necessarily mean that this organisation will take any heed to it or that the organisation can do anything about it or encourage a government of country x to do anything about it. furthermore, you totally ignored my question. I read the site and I skimmed through that treaty, you can stop being so insulting now, I apologised for what I did wrong.
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
Munka said:
whatever, simply because iD believes that they have been wronged does not necessarily mean that this organisation will take any heed to it or that the organisation can do anything about it or encourage a government of country x to do anything about it. furthermore, you totally ignored my question. I read the site and I skimmed through that treaty, you can stop being so insulting now, I apologised for what I did wrong.


http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

you asked a question, I provided you with the resources to determine the answer
the simple answer doesnt seem to satisfy you,
that jurisdiction and the right of enforcement is governed by international treaties

guess you can lead a horse to water...
 

MooCow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 13, 2000
Messages
7,815
I don't know what you guys are talking about right now, and I'm not going to bother reading through all that shit cause I know it has nothing to do with anything (this is an assumption based off of the other threads that turned to abortion, war in Iraq, etc. off a Doom 3 thread). All I have to say is that $55 is NOT a lot to spend on a quality game. I would say that its a lot if the game is of shoddy quality (Planetside) or if its already been out for a few years (System Shock 2 for $5 I bet). You people bitching about spending $55 on Doom 3 probably need to find a job other than flipping burgers.

I am downloading off bit torrent right now, but I will buy the game later. I'm sick and tired of waiting especially how some of you are playing it right now, it makes me mad.
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
furthermore if you think that a United Nations NGO can tackle a problem like this, then I'm afraid you're somewhat dilusional, seeing as the UN can't get their act together where people are STARVING in sudan, what makes you think that an affiliated organisation which reports to the UN can do anything about a situation like this?

SImilar organistations have been attempting to resolve issues with national properties; such as the tradgedy that occured in Iraq when native artifacts were looted from museums and have so far resolved precisely NOTHING.

I am merely pointing out that situations like this take a lot of time and patience and over something like a video game (regardless of money, many of those artifacts were priceless), is not likely to happen. And that iD itself can claim no jurisdiction to fine pirates.

and as far as your "smart questions".... you were the one who claimed to be smart and have knowledge and experience (I can see a google search or two you've done here) but what experience do you have of living over seas? have you seen many foreign countries cracking down on pirates? I personally, with but a few exceptions, have not.

I have lived in Indonesia where, believe it or not, piracy is way of life and a way of employment for thousands and furthermore the government has neither the will or the resources to crack down on the situation.

In norway, as the laws stand, downloading Mp3s is still LEGAL... you ahve to understand that the rest of the world is not always the same as the good old USA.
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
international law provides a web of agreements, they are in fact fait accompli
of the international community,
enforcement is then conducted by legal proceeding in various courts
examples being far too many to site http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/articles/5f/0c01185f.asp
When SiS (Silicon Integrated Systems Corp.) announced construction of an 8-inch fab in April 1999, it let it be known it would stop using the services of UMC (United Microelectronics Corp.). Although that in itself might have been cause for a disagreement with regard to fulfilling contracts, UMC, which has a reputation for playing hardball, filed suit in the U.S. District Court of San Jose in December, 2000 alleging SiS recruited some of UMC's engineers and infringed its intellectual properties. SiS was also alleged to have violated strict nondisclosure agreements as well as agreements not to compete with UMC.

By February 2001, The U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) voted to investigate whether Silicon Integrated Systems Corp. was violating two patents owned by United Microelectronics Corp., the world's No.2 silicon foundry.

And so it ground on through the courts and ITC, until this week. On October 9, 2002, UMC announced it had won a ruling against SiS by the ITC. In a Notice of Final Determination and Issuance of Limited Exclusion Order issued in Washington DC on October 7, 2002, the ITC ruled that SiS is manufacturing products using a patented UMC process in violation of United States law. The Limited Exclusion Order directs the U.S. Customs Service to bar the entry of all SiS products made with the infringing process into the United States.

Infringing SiS chipsets and graphics chips, and all motherboards containing infringing SiS products, are to be barred from importation into the United States immediately following the law-mandated 60-day period for Presidential review of the decision. During this review period, infringing SiS products may be imported into the United States only if a bond is posted with the U.S. Customs Service in the amount of 100% of product value for each chipset and graphics chip, and 39% of product value for each motherboard containing those products. If the ITC's decision stands after the 60 days have elapsed, infringing SiS products will be barred from importation or sale in the United States until the year 2017.

^ based on internationally accepted patent law


it is indeed rare that the UN "polices" international law with rare exceptions (Rwanda, Bosnia ect)
just try reading those
who knows you might learn something
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
enforcement is usually carried out by the nation of which the offender is in, unless strict permission is given by that nation; thus the UN cannot FORCE them to do anything about it.

If they are far too many to site, then picking one at random, is easy.

Having lived abroad my entire life spanning most of the continents, I can tell you that being an avid reader of current events that I would have seen this organistation actually doing something.

Who knows, maybe if you left the country, like you keep ignoring from my questions, you just might learn something yourself, doubtful, but possible.
 

loonym

n00b
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
29
Whether it be the US, Europe, Asia or where ever, the fact remains software piracy is virtually impossible to stop, especially at the end-user level. No amount of laws or google searches can change this fact. If the giant Asian counterfeit rings can't be stopped then how on earth will they ever stop Joe and Mary down on Oak St. from installing the single copy of office on all 3 pcs? That's piracy as sure as downloading doom3 is. Are all the people crying out against piracy really as pure as they might think? Do they have a seperate copy of every bit of software for each pc they own?
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
loonym said:
Whether it be the US, Europe, Asia or where ever, the fact remains software piracy is virtually impossible to stop, especially at the end-user level. No amount of laws or google searches can change this fact. If the giant Asian counterfeit rings can't be stopped then how on earth will they ever stop Joe and Mary down on Oak St. from installing the single copy of office on all 3 pcs? That's piracy as sure as downloading doom3 is. Are all the people crying out against piracy really as pure as they might think? Do they have a seperate copy of every bit of software for each pc they own?

I agree, and just as GOVERNMENTS are struggling with the problem, where does a SOFTWARE company have the jurisdiction to fine people?

Jurisdiction:

1. Law. The right and power to interpret and apply the law: courts having jurisdiction in this district.

2.
a) Authority or control: islands under U.S. jurisdiction; a bureau with jurisdiction over Native American affairs.

b)The extent of authority or control: a family matter beyond the school's jurisdiction.

3. The territorial range of authority or control.


Last I checked, iD specialised at making kick ass games.... not doing or exercising any of the above as Ice_Czar seems he would have you believe. And even if I am mistaken about that, I would think that NGOs of the UN have little time or patience for carrying out their work on something based around a video game. Since when it boils down to it, this is about MONEY, not intelectualism.
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
Munka said:
enforcement is usually carried out by the nation of which the offender is in, unless strict permission is given by that nation; thus the UN cannot FORCE them to do anything about it.

If they are far too many to site, then picking one at random, is easy.

Having lived abroad my entire life spanning most of the continents, I can tell you that being an avid reader of current events that I would have seen this organistation actually doing something.

Who knows, maybe if you left the country, like you keep ignoring from my questions, you just might learn something yourself, doubtful, but possible.

you make alot of assumptions :rolleyes:

and maybe, just maybe, if you learned how to follow links and read them
youd understand the relationship between jusrisdiction, international law, and enforcement
and the gross vaugeness your original question consitiuted
local courts recognize international law to various extents in relationship to their own code
as governed by their treaty agreements, those countries not signatories also have obligations or face consequences again as outlined in the treaties

to say there is no impact of such treaties is again not a deeply considered opinion
that is not to say simply having a law is a solution for a problem :p

The Patent Cooperation Treaty
PCT Contracting States
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
and simply having a treaty is supposed to be a solution to how iD can fine people at free will? I'm growing tired of wasting my time with this, you yourself are making the assumption that this treaty AND this organisation are doing anything.

edit:

and to your example:

International:

Of, relating to, or involving two or more nations: an international commission; international affairs.


edit2: okay, I take this back, the country is based outside the US..

however, it was an issue taht was not really handled at an international level, the US government took all of the initiative in enforcement.

(where's the wipo?)
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
Munka said:
and simply having a treaty is supposed to be a solution to how iD can fine people at free will? .

no that would likely be governed as a provision of thier licensing agreement
they could write a provision saying they get to have your firstborn in exchange for using their software, and if you agree to it...

it might even be enforceable :p

I can see we have alot in common, not alot of pissed off anarchists in America, but Im one :p

however, actually understanding how international law, copyright law, licensing agreements interrelate and what jurisdictions and provisions for enforcement there are
I consider seperate from political ideology
 

Munka

Gawd
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
628
Ice Czar said:
no that would likely be governed as a provision of thier licensing agreement
they could write a provision saying they get to have your firstborn in exchange for using their software, and if you agree to it...

it might even be enforceable :p

however, actually understanding how international law, copyright law, licensing agreements interrelate and what jurisdictions and provisions for enforcement there are
I consider seperate from political ideology

hahaha :) okay, you made me laugh there... that was a good example :p

and I do agree that while political ideology and the red tape with the international laws and relations should be separate... in practice that can't always happen; probably due to problems like piracy...

edit: yeah it's based in Geneva, I checked, but I meant in that entire situation there...
 

M1ster_R0gers

[H]ard [H]eaded
Joined
Jun 8, 2000
Messages
1,525
I think alot of you guys are missing a point. There are a lot of market leaders today because of warez. How many of you here have some sort of professional graphics program? How many of you auctually paid the $500-$700 for it?

People like adobe, corel, MS, IBM could care less about the 14 year old with his new cracked Photoshop 7. They like the fact that some 15 year old student is using a hacked copy of their product to to their homework and spreadsheets.

The reason for this is that they more than make up for it with business liscensing. It also allows for the next generation who sure as hell cant pay for it to start learning it young, so that when they get to the age that they are entering the workforce, they have already had 5-10 years experience with the products.

Its a nasty drag back to reality, but do you think that microsoft would rather someone run a hacked version of office 2000 or open office? Not chasing down every Redbeard and Pegleg has kept Photoshop, MS Office, and a few other longtime vendors the industry standard for the past 10 years.
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
M1ster_R0gers said:
have some sort of professional graphics program? How many of you auctually paid the $500-$700 for it?.

Raises hand

and sadly looks at bank account for the total amount saved so far towards XSI\MentalRay

(64 bit menatlray yours for a measly $2395, XSI only $1995)
 

M1ster_R0gers

[H]ard [H]eaded
Joined
Jun 8, 2000
Messages
1,525
Ice Czar said:
Raises hand

and sadly looks at bank account for the total amount saved so far towards XSI\MentalRay

(64 bit menatlray yours for a measly $2395, XSI only $1995)

I understand where you are coming from. When I was designing sites independantly I bought the dreamweaver/fireworks 3 package. I also bought bryce 3.0 and got the $150 5.0 upgrade. I honestly would not have bothered if I were using them for personal reasons, but I figured wth if I am making cash from their products they deserve a slice of my pie.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
3,954
ScretHate said:
Teach kids at an early age, the value of morality and ethics, and most imporantly, a sense of self-respect derived from personal honor. People need to learn that there are ideals higher than money and infinitely more valuable.


best post so far. ^^^^^^
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
now we just have to figure out how to teach corporations the same responsibility and ethics :rolleyes:
 

CodeWaste

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
1,025
Im not saying that they (software companies) should just turn the other cheek when people pirate their stuff, but i really can't sympathize with them if they go after 15 year olds downloading games here in the US.

In China, the warez is so bad, you can buy any console game for the equivalent of a dollar on any street corner. When young american 15 year old kid downloads a game, yes he deprives the publisher of money, but the kid is not making any money from the download.

The reason that the publishers and developers go after the kids here in the US is because the entire US legal system is set up to work for the corporations, not Joe User. So they sue us and take enourmous sums of money because they can. Every copyright law is set up for the corporations, there is little to no protection for consumers that is not easily circumvented by the publishers. You are screwed by the law before you have ever made a purchase.

The chinese system of government makes it very difficult for foreign publishers to go after pirates. That is why they are largely ignored even though they are the real drain on the publishers profits.

Thats whats so fucked up, and thats what has people like me pissed off.

Who do you really think owns this country?
 

doh-nut

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Messages
5,409
DigitalD said:
Maybe you are excited about the prospect of microsoft telling you what you can and cannot do with your PC, but I for one find it pretty scary, whats comes after that? monitoring my clipboard to see if I copied text that has been copyrighted. RESIST THIS SH*T!

a worthy sacrafice so that software developers can get what they deserve instead of getting ripped off.

nothing to be scared about unless you have something illegal.
 

Warmonkey

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
412
CodeWaste said:
I'm curious exactly as to how often games really use other people's engines? Especially in mainstream games. With game software technology becoming obsolete within 3 years, how many chances will ID really have to license their Doom III engine?
...

... The quake III engine has been used a lot, but not in very many popular games, elite force II being the only one that comes to mind.

I guess I see ID making all their money from their games and not their engines. If they made incredible engines but crappy games, would they be as successful?


Dude....Graphics engines are big money...

Think about it, you get a platform for your game out of the box, you can start on content at the very beginning of the project. This cuts down development time and saves money. However, most of the leading developers like ID (Gods among Men) and Epic (UT2004 makes me smoke rocks) like to make their own engines to be used in their own games. All depends on what kind of game you want to make and want kind of team you have.

A short list:

Call of Duty and the expansions
Medal of Honour
Elite Force II
Countless mods

Also, Quake 2 was used to make a game called SiN, and it totally pwned.

Add to the list, BTW...I have been a [H] for a couple of years, but this is my first post!
 

CodeWaste

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
1,025
doh-nut said:
a worthy sacrafice so that software developers can get what they deserve instead of getting ripped off.

nothing to be scared about unless you have something illegal.

The law is a very flexible thing. it changes with each case. What was thought to be legal one day, could be illegal the next.

Who would you rather have the rights, us, or the corporations?
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
CodeWaste said:
Who do you really think owns this country?


Winner of the Rhetorical Question of the Week Award :p

adding a little Liquid Boy Scout to the fire
FairUse Issues @ Indiana U
Copyright & Fair Use @ Stanford U
make sure to download
Free Culture by Stanford Law Professor Lawrence Lessig
Professor Lessig shows us that while new technologies always lead to new laws, never before have the big cultural monopolists used the fear created by new technologies, specifically the Internet, to shrink the public domain of ideas, even as the same corporations use the same technologies to control more and more what we can and can't do with culture. As more and more culture becomes digitized, more and more becomes controllable, even as laws are being toughened at the behest of the big media groups. What's at stake is our freedom--freedom to create, freedom to build, and ultimately, freedom to imagine

of course there is a substantial difference in the consolidation of copyright use
and software but there are corollaries
Electronic Freedom Foundation
EFF's Patent Busting Project 10 most wanted
(Crimes against the public domain, willful ignorance of prior art, egregious display of obviousness)
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
592
I can't believe some of the filth some of the people here are saying. I also can't believe they believe their own words. They will say anything to accept what they do as right.

"I think alot of you guys are missing a point. There are a lot of market leaders today because of warez. How many of you here have some sort of professional graphics program? How many of you auctually paid the $500-$700 for it?

People like adobe, corel, MS, IBM could care less about the 14 year old with his new cracked Photoshop 7. They like the fact that some 15 year old student is using a hacked copy of their product to to their homework and spreadsheets.

The reason for this is that they more than make up for it with business liscensing. It also allows for the next generation who sure as hell cant pay for it to start learning it young, so that when they get to the age that they are entering the workforce, they have already had 5-10 years experience with the products.

Its a nasty drag back to reality, but do you think that microsoft would rather someone run a hacked version of office 2000 or open office? Not chasing down every Redbeard and Pegleg has kept Photoshop, MS Office, and a few other longtime vendors the industry standard for the past 10 years."


Yeah, and thats why they go after 15 year olds. If they allowed everyone to pirate, what would happen? It would give the idea that it's okay.

No, they don't like it when you steal. Stop thinking that your wrong is right.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
592
CodeWaste said:
Im not saying that they (software companies) should just turn the other cheek when people pirate their stuff, but i really can't sympathize with them if they go after 15 year olds downloading games here in the US.

In China, the warez is so bad, you can buy any console game for the equivalent of a dollar on any street corner. When young american 15 year old kid downloads a game, yes he deprives the publisher of money, but the kid is not making any money from the download.

The reason that the publishers and developers go after the kids here in the US is because the entire US legal system is set up to work for the corporations, not Joe User. So they sue us and take enourmous sums of money because they can. Every copyright law is set up for the corporations, there is little to no protection for consumers that is not easily circumvented by the publishers. You are screwed by the law before you have ever made a purchase.

The chinese system of government makes it very difficult for foreign publishers to go after pirates. That is why they are largely ignored even though they are the real drain on the publishers profits.

Thats whats so fucked up, and thats what has people like me pissed off.

Who do you really think owns this country?


Yeah, so they should allow people to steal from them.

I really love people like you, people who think that everything that a EVIL corporation does is wrong.

Have you ever BEEN to China? No real music or game release can even COME OUT (in China), because the pirating is so bad! Only the most major of major releases can be released because everyone loses money on everything they make!

Why don't you use your head instead of mindlessly going after corporations... If you like games and music and that happens, you aren't going to have much to choose!

You apparantly can't figure out that the laws are to protect businesses against STEALING, so lets put this another way... How about you go to China, and then have things stolen from you, and then see you try to something about it, hum?
 

JeanClaude

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
1,412
after reading the first page ill sum up the rest of the thread....
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111

not trying to sound rude or insult anyone, but arguing over warez is going to have NO EFFECT or bearing on what happens.....its a waste of time. you can quote me on the scream thing.
 
I

Ice Czar

Guest
Newsboys2004 said:
I can't believe some of the filth some of the people here are saying. I also can't believe they believe their own words. They will say anything to accept what they do as right."

It always easy to polarize an issue, makes thinking about so much more simple :p

is warez illegal, yes
and the Major has already defined the terms of the discussion
Threads concerning warez are allowed as long as they don't cross the line and get into the areas where members begin to give their personal dealings with obtaining warez because they feel that the high price justifies the theft of someone's hard work. This is when the hammer falls on the topic and members get the axe. I have yet to see a thread on warez where the it wasn't closed and someone banned. It's something that is an important topic for discussion, but there seems to be no way of having a discussion without confessions of having or obtaining warez which is against our rules

It's not blurry at all according to the forum rules, it is stealing plain and simple which makes it against the forum regardless what justification you have for downloading a game, playing it and not paying for it. Theft is theft whether it is intellectual property or driving off from a self service without paying for your gas, especially in the view of this forum. I hope that is less blurry to you now.

but some very valid arguements have also been raised, namely are the laws just?
Under what ethics and to the benefit of what group?
Im not talking about "games" here but the digital divide, the industrial world and the third world

I seem to be confusing members, first being appearently on one side then another
the simple fact is that like most important issues, it encompasses contradictions

then there is the history of piracy, it has been argued it was employed as an important tool by Microsoft in the early years to ensure its marketplace dominance,
and that a blind eye was turned towards that fact till quite recently

then there is the issue that piracy is being employed as the excuse to infringe privacy rights, I wonder how many here are intimately familiar with the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, or the Patriot Act?

Ive had to lock threads where the question was a simple how do I reformat my XBox HDD?
because answering it would viloate the DMCA :p

so there is still alot of room for discussion and opinion, based squarely within the rules of the forum
 

C4rniV0r

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
1,488
Yes everybody should rush out and buy Doom3 this week so Carmack can buy another brand new Ferrari :rolleyes:
 

CodeWaste

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
1,025
Newsboys2004 said:
Yeah, so they should allow people to steal from them.

No thats not what I am saying at all, please take a minute to think about my post instead of firing off some sarcastic kneejerk remark.

Newsboys2004 said:
I really love people like you, people who think that everything that a EVIL corporation does is wrong.

Please see Ice Czar's links, he has some excellent information posted there. People make mistakes and they have to pay the consequences for them. Corporations make mistakes and they almost never have to pay the consequences. IBM, SCO, Microsoft, Enron, Worldcom, Bell, ....ech, need I go on?

Newsboys2004 said:
Have you ever BEEN to China? No real music or game release can even COME OUT (in China), because the pirating is so bad! Only the most major of major releases can be released because everyone loses money on everything they make!
Bullshit.

Yes I have been to China, have you? Not releasing something in a country does absolutely nothing to ebb the flow of pirated material. Most of the time the police don't even care, they are busy on meaningful crimes like murders, rapes, muggings, and domestic violence. Street corner piracy is like underage smoking here, a joke.
Newsboys2004 said:
Why don't you use your head instead of mindlessly going after corporations... If you like games and music and that happens, you aren't going to have much to choose!

I will, as soon as the RIAA stops mindlessly going after its own customers
Newsboys2004 said:
You apparantly can't figure out that the laws are to protect businesses against STEALING, so lets put this another way... How about you go to China, and then have things stolen from you, and then see you try to something about it, hum?

Come on. You know what I say to the 100+ million dollar corporations? If you cant stand a couple of bruises, dont get into the ring.

This crying and whining about a skinned knee and then running to uncle Sam is really atrocious.
 
Top