Diablo 3 - Beta thread

xenios said:
. I should never have to reroll a character because I made a mistake picking things.
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Agreed 100%.

However, I do think there needs to be some sort of gold or drop impediment to stop people from abusing the system and just changing their lay out every time they come to a different encounter or something like that. I want there to be a little bit of a penalty, be it gold or whatever.

Like WoW respeccing, it juts costs gold, but you can only do it in a certain location. That might work.

Losing the runes forever would be interesting, depending on how and when they drop. Might make getting a rune drop really exciting and a decision on where to put it important.
 
big_aug said:
And runes are going to be super rare/super expensive?

God I hope so. If not, this game is going to be a total let down.
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Same argument holds up for fast travel etc. in games like Oblivion.

Why the hell is it such a problem to have an optional feature even if runes are dirt cheap?

I doubt they're gonna put something in the game that stops you personally from making 5 different witchdoctors that all have different skills/eq/playstyles if that's what you want. Maybe not everyone wants to have to roll 17 different witchdoctors because they change a few of their skills in a patch or some new 'super-awesome setup' is found.

In other news, I hope the beta hits this week. I am not trying to get in, but the faster the beta comes out, the faster the game comes out (don't want to ruin any of it for myself before launch from playing beta).
 
xenios said:
Noone actually knows. At gamescom the way runes where found, added, and removed was still up in the air. we don't know if rune placement has a cast time, if you can remove runes, and so on. The only thing we know is runes are drops and there are rune levels. But If it goes down the way you say, does it even matter? How is picking what you want not customization. The only limits i see them ever putting in is like I said runes are destroyed on removal, can only change skills in town, or like the town portal there is a long cast time to make changes. I should never have to reroll a character because I made a mistake picking things.
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I agree. You shouldn't have to reroll because you made a mistake. You shouldn't be able to use the BEST build for every scenario though. That's just completely stupid. What's the point then? The mindless slaughter will be even more mindless.

There will be LESS experimentation and customization if this is the case. The cookie cutter builds for EVERY encounter will be created, and then everyone will switch to their classes best build for every scenario.

I had a level 90 something Hardcore Throwing Barbarian in Diablo 2. You didn't see those too often. In Diablo 3 ,when we are all level 60, I'll say "I'm a Throwing Barb", and the other barbs will say "So am I."
 
big_aug said:
I agree. You shouldn't have to reroll because you made a mistake. You shouldn't be able to use the BEST build for every scenario though. That's just completely stupid. What's the point then? The mindless slaughter will be even more mindless.

There will be LESS experimentation and customization if this is the case. The cookie cutter builds for EVERY encounter will be created, and then everyone will switch to their classes best build for every scenario.

I had a level 90 something Hardcore Throwing Barbarian in Diablo 2. You didn't see those too often. In Diablo 3 ,when we are all level 60, I'll say "I'm a Throwing Barb", and the other barbs will say "So am I."
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Again, I have no problem with this. Play how you want to play. If its making your own way of doin things, do it. If its following what some guy on the internet says is the best, do it. That being said I really don't think things will be this binary as there is so many freaking combinations of skills and runes.
 
CryingGod said:
God forbid you have to do a little planning in a game.:rolleyes:
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lol i am sorry but there is zero fun in searching the internet for an hour or more to figure out how you should play a game. And then a patch comes out and negates your choices anyway. Fuck that, A game can be fun and challenging without fucking your ass when things change or you didnt read your forums for a few hours.
 
CryingGod said:
God forbid you have to do a little planning in a game.:rolleyes:
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On the contrary, being new to a game and reading what the spells and ability do only do so much for portraying an accurate description of what exactly it does. I wouldn't want to be punished for a bit of experimentation and curiosity. Those days of extreme micromanagement are nice and all, but I don't want it in D3.
 
big_aug said:
And runes are going to be super rare/super expensive?

God I hope so. If not, this game is going to be a total let down.
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Well each rune has different levels from what I understand(could be totally wrong). But I think the super high level runes are hard to get.
 
CryingGod said:
God forbid you have to do a little planning in a game.:rolleyes:
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I played D2 on day one. There wasn't a single person that really new how to build an optimal character at that time for Hell. The vast majority, even those who did some planning, ended up with characters that couldn't beat nightmare, let alone hell. Most people forget how bad it was, and how within days to weeks nobody was playing their day one character anymore, and after 3 months how absolutely no character from the first month was really still able to be used.

Planning is nice, but if this game were more like D2 in regard to stats and skills then all the planning in the world would be irrelevant for the first couple months.
 
Decko87 said:
Well each rune has different levels from what I understand(could be totally wrong). But I think the super high level runes are hard to get.
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There are 5 colors of runes that come in 7 tiers each.

Tiers 1 and 2 drop primarily in Normal
Tiers 3 and 4 start dropping in Nightmare
Tiers 5 and 6 start dropping in Hell
Tier 7 drops only in Inferno
 
At this point in my life, if I spend 20+ hours on a character and then find it is gimped for some reason and I would have to start all over again, I'll just drop that game. It's fine if you want Super Hardcore 3 where if you misclick 100 hours into your char, you're SOL, but I don't want to play that game.
 
xenios said:
lol i am sorry but there is zero fun in searching the internet for an hour or more to figure out how you should play a game. And then a patch comes out and negates your choices anyway. Fuck that, A game can be fun and challenging without fucking your ass when things change or you didnt read your forums for a few hours.
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Nobody forced you to go online to search for guides/forums except your own insecurity about wanting to make the "best" possible character. Diablo 2 can be beaten by anyone with a mouse and keyboard, who has no expertise on cookie cutter builds, stat placement, or skill selection.

I hate the people who install a game and ask "What's the best character?" or "What's the best weapon to use?"

Sad.
 
TwistedAegis said:
At this point in my life, if I spend 20+ hours on a character and then find it is gimped for some reason and I would have to start all over again, I'll just drop that game. It's fine if you want Super Hardcore 3 where if you misclick 100 hours into your char, you're SOL, but I don't want to play that game.
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Nobody wants this. I sure don't. But I really don't want anyone to be anything they want at anytime. It's so bland. There would be zero uniqueness to your character.

I'm going to go with my gut here and say that Blizzard HAD to have thought of this. You will lose the runes or there will be some type of restriction on it so you can't switch for every single run you are doing during the later stages of the game.
 
TwistedAegis said:
At this point in my life, if I spend 20+ hours on a character and then find it is gimped for some reason and I would have to start all over again, I'll just drop that game. It's fine if you want Super Hardcore 3 where if you misclick 100 hours into your char, you're SOL, but I don't want to play that game.
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Maybe you're too old for games and should stop having them dumbed down just to suit your ever changing needs.
 
CryingGod said:
Maybe you're too old for games and should stop having them dumbed down just to suit your ever changing needs.
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Indeed. Instead, every single game released should be catered to your every want and desire. How dare someone not want the same game as you.

Like I said before, nothing is stopping you personally from playing your char like it's a d2 char and never using the skill change/rune change.
 
I've never really minded cookie cutter builds. For me I enjoy playing the game well, and maximizing the builds potential.

It's kind of like how in football coaches come up with the scheme, the players have to execute. I'm more of a player than a coach.

I still have to hit the pots at the right time, cast the the right spells in a situation. I have to react to what is going on.

So I guess what I'm saying, people complain about cookie cutters, but at the end of the day who cares about it? The only thing that matters is how well you play vs. others and monsters.
 
I don't understand the hate with skill changes. How does it hurt anyone really?
 
CryingGod said:
Maybe you're too old for games and should stop having them dumbed down just to suit your ever changing needs.
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Dumbed down? How about smartened up for those of us with jobs making money, instead of basement dwellers with infinite time to level grind.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Dumbed down? How about smartened up for those of us with jobs making money, instead of basement dwellers with infinite time to level grind.
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Agreed. I don't want a second job. I play games to forget about work. After I spend 12 hours powerleveling my cases at the office, I don't want to come home and find out "lol I picked a wrong skill 18 hours of play ago, can't finish inferno now."
 
you guys fight a lot and bitch and complain, none of you deserve Diablo 3.

But I do.
 
So... I'm a barbarian.

I pop my Ignore Pain skill. Then I quickly swap in Call of the Ancients. As soon as that skill has run it's duration, I quickly switch and pop Earthquake. As soon as that has run it's duration, I quickly switch and pop Wrath of the Berserker. By this time Ignore Pain is ready to go, and I pop quickly switch and pop it again.

You won't be doing this constantly, but for bosses and other tough encounters you would definitely do it. It just doesn't seem right to me. That seems right to you guys? Really? From what I understand, that's the way it works right now. I hope I'm completely wrong about all of it.

I'm just pissed that I'll still buy the damn game anyway...
 
No one really knows how it will work but knowing Blizzard that is not how it will work. Just knowing that you will lose runes swapping skills should be a huge negative, particularly at high levels and if you had rare runes. I'd be willing to bet that you can't do it in combat, and it takes 10+ seconds to swap a skill; and you'll still likely take a large effectiveness hit from not have a good rune for that skill.
 
I for one and stoked about this....I can't not tell you how many times i had to start completely over because my character was borked in Hell. You had to plan everything in D2, even down to the gear the toon would be wearing....

This is much better. I would be you have to be in town or visit a certain NPC or some such. If you lose runes when you swap that is a negative as well.
 
Katalysis said:
Agreed. I don't want a second job. I play games to forget about work. After I spend 12 hours powerleveling my cases at the office, I don't want to come home and find out "lol I picked a wrong skill 18 hours of play ago, can't finish inferno now."
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poorly.jpg
 
TwistedAegis said:
At this point in my life, if I spend 20+ hours on a character and then find it is gimped for some reason and I would have to start all over again, I'll just drop that game. It's fine if you want Super Hardcore 3 where if you misclick 100 hours into your char, you're SOL, but I don't want to play that game.
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Just as long as it isn't a 10 second respec before a pvp fight, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
 
big_aug said:
Nobody wants this. I sure don't. But I really don't want anyone to be anything they want at anytime. It's so bland. There would be zero uniqueness to your character.
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I find that type of thinking rather ignorant. Limiting what people can do would completely defeat the purpose of having the ability to play the way you want at any time. If anything, preventing people to be anything they want at any time would more likely create a situation where there would be too many of the same builds, not the other way around.

big_aug said:
I'm going to go with my gut here and say that Blizzard HAD to have thought of this. You will lose the runes or there will be some type of restriction on it so you can't switch for every single run you are doing during the later stages of the game.
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Again, there's no way Blizzard is going to implement a limited way of doing things, since it's all about experimentation and playing the way you want to play. It would be pointless, and actually would make the game far too limited.

Also, they've already stated that you can switch-out/back-and-forth between runes when ever you'd like, numerous times it's been stated actually, so it's a mute point.

If they did it any other way, and either prevented it and/or there was some penalty for it, the game wouldn't be nearly as varied as they've been claiming. Again, it would actually lead to the very thing you're talking about, and there would be too many of the same builds running around.

Instead, it's better that, if two or more people happen to be running the same build, that one can instantly just switch-out runes, in order to have a different effect. That makes the game far more enjoyable and varied.

I don't understand where people get their info, or mentalities over such things, honestly.
 
Slachtbeest said:
Again, there's no way Blizzard is going to implement a limited way of doing things, since it's all about experimentation and playing the way you want to play. It would be pointless, and actually would make the game far too limited.

Also, they've already stated that you can switch-out/back-and-forth between runes when ever you'd like, numerous times it's been stated actually, so it's a mute point.
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Can you give us a link when they said they want skill switching to be anywhere and anytime?

I believe to be able to experiment is good, but to be able to use skill switching as a play style would be bad. In a interview with Jay Wilson, this is what he said:

"...
However, a system still needs restrictions to make it compelling. The restrictions we put in was to cap that total number of skills, both as you level up, but also we even pulled the cap down a bit to six skills because 7 actually felt like people could kind of get everything they wanted, but at 6, they start having to make really hard choices about what to get. It seems like just a one skill difference, but it actually made a really big impact.
..."

This is from his interview with Diablofans.

If a player were to be able to switch skills quickly, and easily, it would give him the ability to use more than 6 skills. As all these skills are maxed, it would likely give the player an advantage.It would also defeat Blizzard's intention and philosophy to have players make hard decisions and chose 6 skills out of 20.

Back in D2, many skills only required 1 skill pt to serve its intention, and now all skills are maxed.

Consider this, a monk, with all 6 skills being offensive abilities, if he runs into danger, he blinds enemy, or dashes out, or just run out. Change one of the skill to heal, heal, and go back fighting again. The skill Breathe of Heavens without a rune heals something like 4000-6000 hp already, and that is a lot of hp considering how little damage some of the skill do (a maxed level meteor does around 300 dmg with no rune, with rune its over 600)

This practically gives the player 7 skills to use, and it affects the balance of the game (since not all characters will be able to use skill swapping to the same degree), it defeats blizzard's original intention, and it is simply an exploitation of the system.

Blizzard want people to try out skills, but I really doubt that they want them play using skill swapping as a strategy.
 
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chockomonkey said:
what's wrong with that?
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What would be the point of PVP? There needs to be some sort of cost or consequence to respeccing. Obviously, Diablo isn't an immersive RPG, but how would you explain having a respec toggle that works like a gear set toggle?
 
LeninGHOLA said:
What would be the point of PVP? There needs to be some sort of cost or consequence to respeccing. Obviously, Diablo isn't an immersive RPG, but how would you explain having a respec toggle that works like a gear set toggle?
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*sets up 12 different macros to change my skill sets*
*melts faces*

I'm sure there will be some sort of limitation.
 
Slachtbeest said:
I find that type of thinking rather ignorant. Limiting what people can do would completely defeat the purpose of having the ability to play the way you want at any time. If anything, preventing people to be anything they want at any time would more likely create a situation where there would be too many of the same builds, not the other way around.



Again, there's no way Blizzard is going to implement a limited way of doing things, since it's all about experimentation and playing the way you want to play. It would be pointless, and actually would make the game far too limited.

Also, they've already stated that you can switch-out/back-and-forth between runes when ever you'd like, numerous times it's been stated actually, so it's a mute point.

If they did it any other way, and either prevented it and/or there was some penalty for it, the game wouldn't be nearly as varied as they've been claiming. Again, it would actually lead to the very thing you're talking about, and there would be too many of the same builds running around.

Instead, it's better that, if two or more people happen to be running the same build, that one can instantly just switch-out runes, in order to have a different effect. That makes the game far more enjoyable and varied.


I don't understand where people get their info, or mentalities over such things, honestly.
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Why not just give every character access to every skill and allow them to use as many as they want? Why have classes? Why limit them at all? Just let us choose a model for our character.

I don't understand where you get your mentality. That's ok though. We disagree. If it ends up this way, you'll enjoy Diablo 3. I'll probably be really disappointed and play for a little while and then move on. I played Diablo 2 for YEARS.

Diablo isn't exactly a game with a lot of depth. It's point, click, slaughter, and collect loot. Being able to switch to any build at any time, for me at least, makes it even worse. To me it's like playing a game like Doom and having all the weapons from the get go. What's the freaking point? Yea, I know the analogy doesn't exactly work, but you see what I'm saying. I'm hoping it's not like this though.
 
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big_aug said:
To me it's like playing a game like Doom and having all the weapons from the get go. What's the freaking point? Yea, I know the analogy doesn't exactly work, but you see what I'm saying. I'm hoping it's not like this though.
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I think the analogy works perfectly; it's like playing Doom, gathering different guns as you go along, and being able to carry them all at once! You'd much prefer DNF, where you can only have 2. ;) (sorry, all in good fun, I couldn't resist.)
 
TwistedAegis said:
I think the analogy works perfectly; it's like playing Doom, gathering different guns as you go along, and being able to carry them all at once! You'd much prefer DNF, where you can only have 2. ;) (sorry, all in good fun, I couldn't resist.)
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What's DNF?
 
I do prefer that kind of thing though. Making the choice to go with this or go with that and living with it. That's just me though, and I know it won't be that way.

Here's to hoping completely wrong about everything and they make it so awesome that I love the system.
 
It all comes down to balance. I want enough of a challenge and skill choice to give me a thrill of victory when I do something, or a sense of accomplishment or choice when I pick a skill or rune. I don't want such an easy change of skills that it trivializes picking them, or turns it into a macro button thing. Blizzard obviously realizes that, which is why you are limited to a number of skills rather than using them all.
 
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