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Determining UPS needs...

jimphreak

jimphreak

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
1,714
I want to buy a UPS for my home network. I've got the following devices that I want to be battery protected.

- unRAID server: i3-4130, 7x WD Reds, 2x 7200RPM HDDs, 1x8GB DIMM, 4 case fans
- VM Server: Xeon E3-1245v2, 1 SSD, 1 7200RPM HDD, 3x8GB DIMMs, 2xPCI NICs, 4 case fans
- Netgear Prosafe Plus 8-port switch

Trying to determine what kind of wattage I should be going with.
 
I agree that 1500va would be a good size for that load, offering you some spare capacity to either use in the future or simply so you don't run the power supply circuitry inside it at full power, and also to get some extra battery life.

Personally I'd recommend an Emerson/Liebert or Eaton/Powerware UPS ahead of APC SmartUPS, but SmartUPS is generally okay and is easier to find used. In my experience they are more picky with battery calibrations.
 
I have a few of those at work on my servers (model without the lcd) for a few years no problems yet.

These are 3 x 12V 9 Ah SLA batteries with F2 terminals.

Code: 
datastore0 ~ # upsc SMART1500SLT
battery.charge: 100
battery.charge.low: 10
battery.charge.warning: 30
battery.runtime: 4565
battery.temperature: 23.9
battery.type: PbAC
battery.voltage: 40.9
battery.voltage.nominal: 36.0
device.mfr: Tripp Lite
device.model: TRIPP LITE SMART1500SLT
device.serial: 2108FY0SM713600146
device.type: ups
driver.name: usbhid-ups
driver.parameter.pollfreq: 30
driver.parameter.pollinterval: 2
driver.parameter.port: /dev/usb/hiddev0
driver.version: 2.7.2
driver.version.data: TrippLite HID 0.81
driver.version.internal: 0.38
input.frequency: 59.9
input.transfer.high: 0.0
input.transfer.low: 0.0
input.voltage: 117.7
input.voltage.nominal: 120
output.current: 1.00
output.frequency: 59.9
output.frequency.nominal: 60
output.voltage: 0.0
output.voltage.nominal: 120
ups.beeper.status: enabled
ups.delay.shutdown: 20
ups.delay.start: 30
ups.firmware: 210
ups.load: 18
ups.mfr: Tripp Lite
ups.model: TRIPP LITE SMART1500SLT
ups.power.nominal: 1500
ups.productid: 3014
ups.serial: 2108FY0SM713600146
ups.status: OL
ups.timer.reboot: -1
ups.timer.shutdown: -1
ups.timer.start: -1
ups.vendorid: 09ae
ups.watchdog.status: 0

Code: 
fileserver1 ~ #  upsc SMART1500SLT
battery.charge: 100
battery.charge.low: 10
battery.charge.warning: 30
battery.runtime: 5097
battery.temperature: 25.9
battery.type: PbAC
battery.voltage: 40.9
battery.voltage.nominal: 36.0
device.mfr: Tripp Lite
device.model: TRIPP LITE SMART1500SLT
device.serial: 2139GY0SM713600236
device.type: ups
driver.name: usbhid-ups
driver.parameter.pollfreq: 30
driver.parameter.pollinterval: 2
driver.parameter.port: /dev/usb/hiddev0
driver.version: 2.7.2
driver.version.data: TrippLite HID 0.81
driver.version.internal: 0.38
input.frequency: 59.9
input.transfer.high: 0.0
input.transfer.low: 0.0
input.voltage: 118.8
input.voltage.nominal: 120
output.current: 1.00
output.frequency: 59.9
output.frequency.nominal: 60
output.voltage: 0.0
output.voltage.nominal: 120
ups.beeper.status: enabled
ups.delay.shutdown: 20
ups.delay.start: 30
ups.firmware: 210
ups.load: 15
ups.mfr: Tripp Lite
ups.model: TRIPP LITE SMART1500SLT
ups.power.nominal: 1500
ups.productid: 3014
ups.serial: 2139GY0SM713600236
ups.status: OL
ups.timer.reboot: -1
ups.timer.shutdown: -1
ups.timer.start: -1
ups.vendorid: 09ae
ups.watchdog.status: 0
 
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I don't suggest buying a refurbished APC SUA UPS. Mind you not because I don't like APC SUA. My two units (1000VA, 1500VA) are working fine and have been working fine.

My first APC SUA1500 shipped with the battery but was not refurbished. It was just listed as used. The battery worked fine for over a year or so nonetheless before I had to replace it. The price wasn't any higher than a batteryless SUA. That wasn't a bad deal. If you can find something like that, do it.

However, "refurbished"? I mean this is purely anecdotal, but I got my APC SUA1000 refurbished. It came with a battery that basically lasted all of 15-20 seconds under a 3 bars of load. Of course, I strongarmed the seller into giving me the full price difference of the battery being in there. But just don't think you'll really save yourself any trouble by buying a refurb with the battery included. Ebay sellers don't always check their batteries. Just buy the UPS without battery and then buy the battery yourself. It's just a safer investment and you won't have to deal with any possible headaches like that.
 
jimphreak said:
Tripp Lite not recommended I assume? We use them in many of our racks at work and haven't had many issues but I've never used their smaller units like this one:
Click to expand...

They are not a company that has the same level of trust as the companies we previously mentioned, but some of their products are decent for the cost.

I'd never, EVER recommend one simply because I don't trust the company itself enough. Same with others like Cyberpower which many people on this board do like. Probably most people that buy those products won't have an issue with them, but they're not things that most of us can stand behind. Remember, we're giving information to other people who we expect to put a certain degree of trust in us (otherwise giving this information would be a pointless waste of our time). I don't want to tell someone to cheap out on a power protection / supply product because I've seen enough of those fail.
 
jimphreak said:
Tripp Lite not recommended I assume? We use them in many of our racks at work and haven't had many issues but I've never used their smaller units like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SM...UTF8&qid=1431454064&sr=8-3&keywords=Eaton+UPS
Click to expand...
From personal experience I would never use a tripp lite ups.
I had a client who had an apc and the other offices in the building tripp lite.
Direct lightning hit to the pole outside the building.
Everything connected to the apc survived and booted right up even though the ups was toast. Everything connected to the tripp lights were dead.
Their charger/inverter however has a better reputation than their ups do and I would use one where appropriate.
 
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stormy1 said:
From personal experience I would never use tripp lite.
I had a client who had an apc and the other offices in the building tripp lite.
Direct lightning hit to the pole outside the building.
Everything connected to the apc survived and booted right up even though the ups was toast. Everything connected to the tripp lights were dead.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the feedback but that's exactly the kind of anecdotal evidence I wouldn't want affecting my decision. Now if there were 1,000 of those stories I might consider it a legitimate reason to avoid them.
 
jimphreak said:
I appreciate the feedback but that's exactly the kind of anecdotal evidence I wouldn't want affecting my decision. Now if there were 1,000 of those stories I might consider it a legitimate reason to avoid them.
Click to expand...

If you want to buy a power protection product from a low-end brand, that is your choice, but if your mind is made up then don't bother asking us... You aren't going to get 1000 stories here, so I'm not sure what you're expecting us to tell you.
 
dandragonrage said:
If you want to buy a power protection product from a low-end brand, that is your choice, but if your mind is made up then don't bother asking us... You aren't going to get 1000 stories here, so I'm not sure what you're expecting us to tell you.
Click to expand...

My mind is in no way made up. I'm just saying that one personal experience should not sway a person one way or another. I'd prefer to look at the actual industry statistics instead. If someone wanted to point to real life stats instead I'd be open to that. That's all I was saying. I wasn't attacking you for your response.
 
jimphreak said:
My mind is in no way made up. I'm just saying that one personal experience should not sway a person one way or another. I'd prefer to look at the actual industry statistics instead. If someone wanted to point to real life stats instead I'd be open to that. That's all I was saying. I wasn't attacking you for your response.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but I'm not aware of any such good statistics existing at all. But if anyone else knows of any, I'd give them a look.

Until then, spend as much money as it takes to make you feel secure enough for the level of protection your data needs. And, as usual, always keep backups, and if possible, keep them in multiple sites if the data is worth protecting to that degree.


Edit: I wonder if any sites have disassembled various UPS to compare the components and design inside the units for comparison purposes... Like PC review sites often do for PC PSUs. If so, that could give some objectivity in the comparison, though you still wouldn't get the full answer from that unless you reverse engineered the entire design including firmware.. Few people would be able to do that.
 
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I'm actually surprised more companies don't keep statistics like that on hand. It's a way to use big data to drive cost savings via accumulated evidence. However, I suppose the data has to be very well preserved and carefully collected.

This reminds me of the hard disk discussions. The only thing that we really had was google's studies... however those didn't really point to one manufacturer that one should buy. It just pointed out HDD trends (such as when they tended to die). I think there is a site called Blackblaze now (or something like that), that keeps statistics like that... but it's hard to say how legitimate it is.

I mean if you're a business, your ultimate goal is to make money. You have competitors. Releasing information like that could aid your competitors. From a fiscal standpoint it seems like the best thing to do is to form a partnership with a certain manufacturer and say that their drives are the most reliable. Keep buying every other brand to validate your statistics, while never divulging how they are collected. Point is, you're unlikely to find those kind of numbers. You're on a forum, which means most of your evidence will be anecdotal. The only thing we could really go by is the reputation/purpose of the model and any teardowns that are available. I'm not sure if anyone's doing that though. Lots of PSU teardowns, but I don't see many UPS teardowns.

Here's a simple comparison from a long time ago:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...00pfclcd-tripp-lite-smart1500slt,2785-13.html


Honestly it's this way for a lot of things. There aren't any definitive statistics to go on, so the best you can do is reviews and anecdotal evidence. That's pretty much the best you'll do. That's why I tend to ask on forums for advice before I do anything. Because that's at least better than nothing.
 
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