Dell U2711

AndrewZorn said:
I don't post here much, but I did want to come into 'the' U2711 thread and mention the AG coating grain.

Yes, it's there. Why does no one say anything? So far it's my only disappointment... but come on, how is this not a major issue? On one hand, mainstream-everyone loves Macs, which are shiny. On the other hand, Dell apparently thinks all its customers are hippies out programming in the sun or something. Matte has always been glare-resistant, adding this coating was not necessary. I think anyone willing to spend $1000+ on a monitor (especially for pro work) (buy on Ebay by the way) has glare under control. I'm no graphic designer, but if I was, this would drive me crazy.

You learn to look past it, but I keep wanting to think there's a screen protector I need to pull off.

STILL an awesome monitor, etc.

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Well put. I also don't know why the reviews don't mention anything about the AG coating on these IPS panels. To learn about it, we have to come to these forums.

When I had the U2410, it was the green / pink tint uniformity problem that made me return my monitor. Another thing was that it didn't always look clear to me. At the time, I didn't even know about the AG coating. I thought the panel had poor viewing angles but didn't understand because it should have the best viewing angles as it is an IPS panel. The best description for this AG coating effect that people use is "sparkle". It's like glitter sand thrown into the screen. Your eyes are always trying to focus. And I think the effect is made worse if you wear glasses.

I also think the U2410 has some of the most aggresive AG coatings. I looked at the equivalent 24" HP IPS monitor and it seemed much better. But it was also very noticeable. For this reason, I'm not going to buy an IPS monitor until they reduce the AG coating effect. I'll stick with my SPVA and CPVA screens.

BTW. The Samsung F2380 has an extremely smooth look. One professional review stated the AG coating is minimal on this model.
 
AndrewZorn said:
I wish. It was the first thing I noticed, no exaggeration, when I hooked up this monitor. I've always hated the anti-glare coatings. This one isn't the worst I've seen, but like the other guy said, you can close the blinds, turn off the lights... but never get rid of the grain. I personally keep light away from my monitor 'religiously', I've never had a glare problem with any monitor. I would think a monitor marketed for professional work would follow the same school of thought: quality over convenience.
At least it is only noticeable on white and webpages/text/etc. You can see it a little in pictures, but only if you look for it. Anything with motion is fine.
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I'll just count myself lucky :) It's somewhat strange because normally I'm a bit OCD about little things like this, but I guess only time will tell. The flickering button led IS starting to annoy the crap out of me, so I'm going to probably give dell a call soon.
 
AndrewZorn said:
I don't post here much, but I did want to come into 'the' U2711 thread and mention the AG coating grain.

Yes, it's there. Why does no one say anything? So far it's my only disappointment... but come on, how is this not a major issue? On one hand, mainstream-everyone loves Macs, which are shiny. On the other hand, Dell apparently thinks all its customers are hippies out programming in the sun or something. Matte has always been glare-resistant, adding this coating was not necessary. I think anyone willing to spend $1000+ on a monitor (especially for pro work) (buy on Ebay by the way) has glare under control. I'm no graphic designer, but if I was, this would drive me crazy.

You learn to look past it, but I keep wanting to think there's a screen protector I need to pull off.

STILL an awesome monitor, etc.
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Thank you for mentioning it. I have always had lighting under control and went from a 20wmgx2 to a 3007wfp-hc and was really disheartened with the AG....finally just had to pull the trigger on the 27" iMac after seeing it in person and I don't regret it for a second. There really needs to be some middle ground between these two options.
 
hornkiku23 said:
My u2711 showed up yesterday and I am almost complete with a PC/mac setup I decided to pursue instead of buying a new i7 machine a few months back.

Switching from display port to dvi (mac 2nd monitor to pc) is faster than I expected and works great as far as both machines not getting confused about new monitors popping up and out.
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From AnandTech

The U2711 has an extremely high resolution 2560x1440 panel - similar to the panel that's used in the Apple 27" iMac. Notice that we highlighted the word similar? That's because the two panels aren't identical; the glass might be the same, but there are definitely differences.

For one, Apple uses LED backlighting whereas the U2711 sticks with CCFL technology. But isn't CCFL worse? That depends on what you're after; the iMac 27 offers a 72% color gamut while the U2711 has a 102% color gamut (based on the CIE 1931 standard). Using RGB LEDs, it would be possible to get a similarly high color gamut, but our experience with RGB LEDs to date is that they cost more and consume more power than regular LEDs, so we can understand Dell's interest in sticking with the "older" technology. (We've only seen RGB LEDs in a few laptops so far, and as one example it's a $175 upgrade on the Dell Studio XPS 16 compared to a regular white LED display.)...

Besides having a higher color gamut and different backlighting technology, Dell uses 12-bit internal color processing with the ability to output 10-bit color. That means you can get 1024 levels of grey instead of just 256, reducing the amount of banding present in certain situations. 24-bit vs. 30-bit color also means you get a color palette of 1.07 billion instead of 16.7 million, though we were unable confirm this in testing.
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I'm curious if you are using the resolution at 2560x1440 for both displays?

Also did you try using a "Mini Displayport to Displayport Adapter Cable" instead of DVI?

The Mini-DP to DP Cable allows you to directly connect the U2711 via the DP and am curious if you notice any difference in quality et. al.

I am considering a similar setup to yours but waiting for more info before making the leap!

BTW the setup looks great!
 
Anyone get a screen with a stuck pixel? I have one low middle stuck pixel that won't go black it stays purple. It will go to white though.

Weird huh?
 
I would exchange that thing for a new one asap! Dell will have no problem issuing you a new one. Unless of course you don't mind it but that is an expensive monitor and should be what you consider perfect!

Zero Bright Pixels: Under Dell's Premium Panel Guarantee, you will receive a free panel exchange should even one bright defective pixel appear on the screen during your Limited Hardware Warranty period.
 
Part of me is hoping that Dell doesn't rescind their guarantee or harden up to all the returns from single-pixel problems. I'm getting mine in May, so I hope I'm not SOL when the time comes around.

fridaylights said:
Well put. I also don't know why the reviews don't mention anything about the AG coating on these IPS panels. To learn about it, we have to come to these forums.....

BTW. The Samsung F2380 has an extremely smooth look. One professional review stated the AG coating is minimal on this model.
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Thought I might link you to this if you hadn't seen it already. Just the F2380 on these forums.
 
Odered my u2711 on 3/2/10 and currently stating delivery of 3/18/2010. Says it's in production, does that mean it does not have in stock or they are actually producing them?

Also, I was wondering if anyone that received the monitor tried to calibrate with Xrite-i1 display calibrator and what was your results. Another thing I am confused is when you calibrate, it will automatically calibrate the preset (srgb & argb)? I am a bit confused about this since these are considered presets... I was thinking of swapping from srbg to argb when needed and was thinking if with one calibration profile living in the video card will be sufficient to have calibrated srgb & argb. Let me know if I am making sense? thanks for your help!
 
bvalenzuela said:
Odered my u2711 on 3/2/10 and currently stating delivery of 3/18/2010. Says it's in production, does that mean it does not have in stock or they are actually producing them?

Also, I was wondering if anyone that received the monitor tried to calibrate with Xrite-i1 display calibrator and what was your results. Another thing I am confused is when you calibrate, it will automatically calibrate the preset (srgb & argb)? I am a bit confused about this since these are considered presets... I was thinking of swapping from srbg to argb when needed and was thinking if with one calibration profile living in the video card will be sufficient to have calibrated srgb & argb. Let me know if I am making sense? thanks for your help!
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Don't trust the 3/18 date , it said I would get my U2410 on the 9th of march and I got it next day with overnight shipping. Its more of a general estimate than anything and it seems pretty inaccurate to.
 
I wish I lived in US so I could actually specify what kind of shipping I want. In Canada it seems to default to slow ground all the time even if we want to pay more or not.
 
Got mine today and already mounted on the wall. The AG coating isn't bothering me in the slightest and I haven't yet found a dead or bright pixel.

Watched a movie and played some Borderlands with the FOV corrected. Very nice.

Very happy with it.

Steve
 
I have not and never will run a display at non native for general use so yes I have them both at 2560x1440 of course. :) That's why I bought it.

I mentioned not so clearly that I am using the displayport for the imac out and the dvi for my pc. I use a miniDP to DP cable.


rtheb said:
From AnandTech



I'm curious if you are using the resolution at 2560x1440 for both displays?

Also did you try using a "Mini Displayport to Displayport Adapter Cable" instead of DVI?

The Mini-DP to DP Cable allows you to directly connect the U2711 via the DP and am curious if you notice any difference in quality et. al.

I am considering a similar setup to yours but waiting for more info before making the leap!

BTW the setup looks great!
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Why does everyone avoid using DisplayPort? I don't think it has any real advantage over DVI... but why not?
 
I am planning to use DisplayPort on this monitor hooked to my Radeon 5870, any reason I shouldn't?
 
It's what I'm using on my 5850.
Only problem I had so far was it stealing my audio... it is like HDMI, where Windows assumes it is what you want. Just remember to disable the audio device completely.

I don't know what to do with all the inputs, it's nice. About to hook my Dreamcast up to VGA, and I still have both DVIs unused.
 
steve-dave said:
any impressions with the ps3 and xbox360 mate?
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It works great! Didn't notice any lag, and the picture was good. It is definitely a touch slow when switching inputs but it's certainly tolerable for the quality you get :)

AndrewZorn said:
Why does everyone avoid using DisplayPort? I don't think it has any real advantage over DVI... but why not?
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I'm not avoiding it, my GTX280 just doesn't come with a DP :)
 
AndrewZorn said:
Why does everyone avoid using DisplayPort? I don't think it has any real advantage over DVI... but why not?
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I have a feeling there's going to be a large shift to DP, eyefinity pretty much requires almost all DP monitors.
 
Dr.Pants said:
Part of me is hoping that Dell doesn't rescind their guarantee or harden up to all the returns from single-pixel problems. I'm getting mine in May, so I hope I'm not SOL when the time comes around.



Thought I might link you to this if you hadn't seen it already. Just the F2380 on these forums.
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Thanks for the link.

Yes. The black crush / shadow detail loss is pretty significant on the F2380. I have spent a lot of time tweaking the settings. The picture quality on my old Samsung 215TW is overall a lot better -- much more accurate colours and to me more contrast.

As the link to the thread about the F2380, he also says that the AG coating is minimal. I can compare to my 215TW and notice that the AG coating is less on the F2380. But the AG coating does not bother me at all on the 215TW.

Also the gamma shift doesn't bother me on these PVA monitors. Overall, the picture is much better than a TN. But the thing is, I wanted to upgrade to IPS but ran into LG quality control and the AG coating. As far as I know, the lower priced IPS panels seem to all have aggressive AG coatings. ie. Dell and HP. Has anyone compared the AG coatings of these lower priced IPS panels to something much more expensive like an NEC?
 
Has anyone with this screen tested it at the half native resolution of 1280x720? I'm very interested in how this will look, as presumably one pixel will be interpolated to exactly four, leaving a very clean looking image (pretty exactly the same as if you had a native 27" 1280x720 screen).

This is a selling point for me - over a U2410 - as I'd like to hook up a 360 to my monitor, where a lot of the games run at 1280x720. Presumably, they'd look better on the U2711.... :)
 
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JonDo[H];1035421789 said:
Has anyone with this screen tested it at the half native resolution of 1280x720? I'm very interested in how this will look, as presumably one pixel will be interpolated to exactly four, leaving a very clean looking image (pretty exactly the same as if you had a native 27" 1280x720 screen).

This is a selling point for me - over a U2410 - as I'd like to hook up a 360 to my monitor, where a lot of the games run at 1280x720. Presumably, they'd look better on the U2711.... :)
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I'm thinking the exact same thing :) - anyone in a position to comment on this?
 
JonDo[H];1035421789 said:
Has anyone with this screen tested it at the half native resolution of 1280x720? I'm very interested in how this will look, as presumably one pixel will be interpolated to exactly four, leaving a very clean looking image (pretty exactly the same as if you had a native 27" 1280x720 screen).

This is a selling point for me - over a U2410 - as I'd like to hook up a 360 to my monitor, where a lot of the games run at 1280x720. Presumably, they'd look better on the U2711.... :)
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The Xbox360 works very well on the monitor; I've been playing Bayonetta which is 720p internally and it looks good :) I can take a picture of the screen to show how it looks if that'll help...
 
JonDo[H];1035422374 said:
How does your desktop look presented at 1280x720? Is it very blurred?
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Well it's definitely scaled up at 1280x720. It's not blurred, but nothing is "sharp" as it is at native res. One of the reasons I picked up the monitor was the resolution, so I don't understand the need to run it at such a low resolution :confused:

Speaking of which...are there actually 27" monitors with native 1280x720 resolution?
 
JonDo[H];1035422374 said:
How does your desktop look presented at 1280x720? Is it very blurred?
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This is pixel doubling, also known as quadding. Since each original pixel is displayed on exactly four pixels, it will completely avoid the usual blurriness of a non-native resolution.

Edit: "will" is apparently now "should but doesn't"; see below posts.
 
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evilsofa said:
This is pixel doubling, also known as quadding. Since each original pixel is displayed on exactly four pixels, it will completely avoid the usual blurriness of a non-native resolution.
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You'd think so, but not according to this one bloke at Overclockers UK ('garsands'), where he uses Dirt 2 as an example:-

Test Game Dirt 2 max settings AA x 16

1280x720 It looks blurred,fuzzy,dull it kills must of the glossy mirror reflections you get comming off the cars.

1920x1080 Looks nice bright sharp with clear reflections

2560 x 1440 Looks like it's ment to look sharp crisp mirror look on the cars.
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Link: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18098931&page=9
 
I'm leaning towards the A01 U2410 with this in mind, as there's no way I'm going to be able to run new PC games smoothly at the U2711's native res (even with my 4870x2). Now if the U2711 was able to present a 1280x720 image cleanly (i.e. not blurred), then that would be something else.
 
JonDo[H];1035422423 said:
You'd think so, but not according to this one bloke at Overclockers UK ('garsands'), where he uses Dirt 2 as an example
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If you read further in that thread, garsands seems to be confused about what he's doing. User error seems to be a possibility. I'd like to see independent confirmation on that.
 
Yeah, I don't think it is just doubling the pixels. I could be wrong, but there definitely looks like some voodoo going on at pixel level to smooth it out. I understand some people might want said smoothing, and others (like me) would prefer doubling. I wish they'd just include an option. Perhaps more is possible if you use your video card to scale the res, are there options on the card to double pixels and whatnot?

I won't say it is totally bad though. After raising sharpness to 100% (which looks terrible at native res, but better at 1280x720) it looked pretty good I guess.

u2711720p.jpg


Cheap kit lens and all, but the point is still there.
Original file was over 11mb... by far the largest JPG I have ever had on my camera. I guess it is just because of the uniform detail. So yeah, I kind of had to cut it down.

Anyway, you can see the individual pixels and how they are not representing the same color as the 3 adjacent to them.

With any sort of motion (ie, games) non-native looks fine. My PS3 looks great. Yes, when I play PC games my face is a bit closer to the screen... and yes, it does not look as good as the native resolution. But I am not sure if this is due to bad scaling/representation or just the fact that 2560x1440 looks so good. A single 5850 overclocked has so far handled all the games I've been playing (to include Bad Company 2 and Shattered Horizon). Just as when I got my 2405fpw, I think the high res actually plays an interesting role in performance: with pixels this tiny, AA is not as important. I can barely tell the difference between AA on and off. So I keep AA at 2x if I have the room to, turn it off if not, but either way, the high resolution sort of makes up for it, and I have no complaints about jaggies.

EDIT and here is the same shot at native res:

u27111440p.jpg


Even with font smoothing (probably could have disabled it for this analysis) you can see the much cleaner look at native res.
The second image is smaller, and it took a minute for me to figure out why... I tried to be at the same distance (minimum to focus)... but oh, right, the same item is a lot smaller at native res. It's a bit odd, but I can confirm that the pictures are nearly equal by looking at the size of the pixels between the two images.
 
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Cheers Andrew. There's some strange scaling going on there. It looks as if the straight lines in the top image are slightly smudged. Check out the top left hand corner of the 'R' on resolution. It appears to be a right-angle on the lower (1:1) image, but it's not so clear cut in the top one.
 
Got me curious, so I decided to take some pictures myself to see. Excuse the blurriness, handholding a 100mm macro at 1:1 is difficult (that's my excuse :p).

at 720:
720h.jpg


native:
native.jpg
 
Interesting. Check the tops of the letters. Whereas they are exactly one pixel tall in the bottom, 'native' image, they are not quite 2 pixels tall in the top, upscaled image (the black looks smudged).

No idea why the monitor would do this though. There's definitely nothing in its settings to prevent smoothing?
 
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I'm guessing that it's actually being done by the OS. Probably font smoothing of some sort. I'm going to open up photoshop and doing a test there with some text. Should give a good comparison.
 
Hmmm, but why would that be? If you're displaying straight text without any smoothing/truetype enforced, then surely the feathering would be absent from both pics.

EDIT: also, they show the same peculiarity as in the pics you posted prior. Where the lower part of the 'E' is 2-pixels high in the native pic, you'd expect it to be exactly 4-pixels high in the 720P one (if pixel doubling is occurring correctly). But it's not. Instead, it's 2 pixels high, with a 'feathering' effect that bleeds the letter into one pixel above and below. Weird!
 
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Good point, I guess that's where the softness of the image comes from; everything does look soft. I also did a test with truetype off, but the results were the same. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a non-native res displayed on a screen without some fuzziness. Do you have any pictures of pixel doubling done correctly?
 
There is a Sharpness option on the monitor. At native, it looks bad to put it to 100, but at 720p, it does look a little sharper.

I'm not sure why you guys are blaming the feathering on the OS. Yes, font smoothing was enabled on my machine: but for both screenshot. I checked to make sure that my GPU wasn't upscaling the image to the monitor's native res behind my back: turned the monitor to 1:1 and it was indeed sending a 720p signal. In other words, the fonts were no more or less smoothed between the two images, I did not increase the text size or anything. That means that the monitor is doing the smoothing as part of the scaling. It makes curves look less like a pile of bricks... but would of course have the same effect on what is supposed to be a hard edge. It's all just a fancy 'smart scaling' trying to 'enhance' the image... that we cannot turn off. Might also be adding some input lag.

End-result isn't as bad as some of these images make it look, the monitor just has a bit of a softer look. Probably be pretty hard to care about in a game.
To get a positive angle on things, it is the same type of process that an 'upscaling' DVD player does... and everybody loves that. So again, some people love features like this, others hate it, it is a matter of preference and spin on the wording. If you posted high-res shots of pixel doubling, yes, the image would be clearer, but clear like an NES game in that all the pixels would be very noticeable instead of all smoothed together.

But I'm not taking sides, I just wanted an option to enable/disable. At least this monitor has 1:1/Aspect/Fill...
 
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