Dell U2410

Kuro said:
IUpon looking at the Lagom gradient page, it is extremely smooth. Virtually no banding at all.

Now I'm looking at my U2410. In sRGB mode, there is noticeable banding, but not severe. Even in Standard mode, some banding is still noticeable. It is definitely not as smooth compared to the LCD on 24" iMac:mad:

Also, there is no green/pink tint on the iMac LCD.
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As I've pointed out the Mac LED IPS screens are still prone to uniformity issues on white backgrounds - It seems like all IPS screens are to varying degrees. The only way to guarantee this problem will be at a minimum is to choose a screen which allows independent adjustments to a sufficent number of different zones of the screen so that, if the IPS panel has poor uniformity, it can be correct to a degree (at a loss of overall contrast as the brighter areas must be turned down to match the duller areas etc).

Also, I don't see ANY banding in standard or custom mode on the U2410. What I can see is the individual colours used on the actual image, with zero banding. However it IS possible that perhaps calibration of Standard/Custom mode with a hardware calibration device could introduce banding..
 
PatK said:
Can you see down to square 1 on the Lagom black level test in sRGB mode, and do you spot any visible dither type issues on the squares? ( http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php )

Curious as, like the U2410, the CG243W seems to be using an 8-bit panel with 10 bit dither.
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If you are using a common gamut like 2.2 you may not see a difference between squares 1-3 on the black test. This is normal to have the first squares the same unless you sitting in a very dark room. Gamma 2.2 compresses the darkest end of the scale quite a bit.

It is twilight right now. If I turn out the lights I can distinguish 3 from background, 2 looks like background, maybe at midnight I could see 2.

You can always adjust your gamma (via calibration) to see those first couple of squares if that is vital to you, but usually at the expense of making things look more washed out. It is unlikely there is any real valuable info in those lowest levels of black. Usually if people are losing detail they are missing tone quite a ways up the scale. I wouldn't obsess over 1,2,3. A lot of games have built in Gamma correction as well.

On the 8 bit panels, even the NECs with 12 bit LUTs have at their base 8 bit panels with 4 bit dither. This is quite normal. But I don't see any dither issues on my black test.
 
PatK said:
Can you see down to square 1 on the Lagom black level test in sRGB mode, and do you spot any visible dither type issues on the squares? ( http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php )

Curious as, like the U2410, the CG243W seems to be using an 8-bit panel with 10 bit dither.
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For the black level test, I can see 2 at minimum under SRGB mode, but from its its custom mode, after calibration, it is easily to see all of them. No dithering issues at all.

Yes, I contacted EIZO earlier regarding to how 8 bit panel can show 10 bit colours especially the LM240WU4-SLA1 is a 8 bit panel. I think I gave them a real hard time.

Never mind, their engineer called me earlier and told me the 10 bit colour of CG243W is due to the dithering from their so called 3D LUT tech. And he also told me as what he saw from his own test, he can't see any dithering issues when he's using DP port, 10 bit output graphic card and the relevant software to see the full grey scales.

Hope this info helps.

Regards

Chum
 
Snowdog said:
On the 8 bit panels, even the NECs with 12 bit LUTs have at their base 8 bit panels with 4 bit dither. This is quite normal.
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You can only see 16.67 million colours from NECs not 1 billion colours.

People are not stupid and EIZO does not need to tell lies.

Anyway, as the engineer said, if you want a monitor which has a proper 10 bit colour not the dithering one, the CG232 would be the one.

Well recommandation! Thank you for recommanding me a 23'' monitor which the retail price is £10,000 ($16,000)!!!

Regards

Chum
 
Could someone clarify the use of standard mode (wide gamut) vs sRGB mode?

I use my U2410 for a lot of photo work(i shoot weddings) in lightroom and photoshop. I also do a lot of web browsing. My final end product from the photos are almost always sRGB JPG files, so is there any reason for me to use wide gamut mode?

As I understood it, using wide gamut can give you wrong colors?
 
PatK said:
Also, I don't see ANY banding in standard or custom mode on the U2410. What I can see is the individual colours used on the actual image, with zero banding. However it IS possible that perhaps calibration of Standard/Custom mode with a hardware calibration device could introduce banding..
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I removed the monitor profile and yes, there is no banding in Standard or sRGB mode. With monitor profile in place, there is an ever so slight banding..

I redo my i1 measurement, and opt to use large LUT. It seems to improve things a little bit.
 
Perzk said:
Could someone clarify the use of standard mode (wide gamut) vs sRGB mode?

I use my U2410 for a lot of photo work(i shoot weddings) in lightroom and photoshop. I also do a lot of web browsing. My final end product from the photos are almost always sRGB JPG files, so is there any reason for me to use wide gamut mode?

As I understood it, using wide gamut can give you wrong colors?
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You should set the U2410 in sRGB mode if you do not have device like i1 to calibrate/profile your LCD.

Using Standard mode (wide gamut) will give you wrong colors on Windows desktop and for applications that are not color managed.

If you have profiled your LCD using a colorimeter, and edit your photos via Photoshop, then the colors would be correct whether you're in sRGB or Standard mode (Photoshop is a fully color managed app and will read the monitor profile).

Getting the i1 Display 2 to porfile your LCD is highly recommended, as the sRGB mode is a bit greenish and tiny bit reddish on the U2410.
 
Kuro said:
You should set the U2410 in sRGB mode if you do not have device like i1 to calibrate/profile your LCD.

Using Standard mode (wide gamut) will give you wrong colors on Windows desktop and for applications that are not color managed.

If you have profiled your LCD using a colorimeter, and edit your photos via Photoshop, then the colors would be correct whether you're in sRGB or Standard mode (Photoshop is a fully color managed app and will read the monitor profile).

Getting the i1 Display 2 to porfile your LCD is highly recommended, as the sRGB mode is a bit greenish and tiny bit reddish on the U2410.
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So what could solve the tinting issues? adjusting the LUT?
 
webbyboy said:
So what could solve the tinting issues? adjusting the LUT?
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You really need a colorimeter to take the tint out. I'm not talking about pink/green tint panel non-uniform issue.

The defult sRGB mode is greenish and i1 calibration confirmed this as well.
 
I realised that on gaming mode, the monitor dims and brighten by itself according the color on the screen?
 
Kuro said:
You really need a colorimeter to take the tint out. I'm not talking about pink/green tint panel non-uniform issue.

The defult sRGB mode is greenish and i1 calibration confirmed this as well.
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How does the colorimeter calibrate it? by adjusting the graphics driver display properties?
 
niknakk said:
a "normal person" U2410 review... no color science talk
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Hahahahah! :p:D:p

I have really started to enjoy the monitor more now that I've cranked the brightness and contrast down to pretty much nothing.

EDIT: Brightness: 3 Contrast: 18 Yeah, white's not really white, but it's a lot easier on my eyeballs.
 
Kuro said:
You should set the U2410 in sRGB mode if you do not have device like i1 to calibrate/profile your LCD.

Using Standard mode (wide gamut) will give you wrong colors on Windows desktop and for applications that are not color managed.

If you have profiled your LCD using a colorimeter, and edit your photos via Photoshop, then the colors would be correct whether you're in sRGB or Standard mode (Photoshop is a fully color managed app and will read the monitor profile).

Getting the i1 Display 2 to porfile your LCD is highly recommended, as the sRGB mode is a bit greenish and tiny bit reddish on the U2410.
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I have the Spyder3 Elite wich I have used to calibrate in sRGB mode. I think I will just stick with this.
 
webbyboy said:
How does the colorimeter calibrate it? by adjusting the graphics driver display properties?
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By providing a LUT in the form of a monitor/color profile. You can set the ICC profile in Windows (WinXP will need WinColor in order to activate the ICC profile, Win7 does it automaically).
 
One thing that bothers me about U2410 is the card reader. Why include a cardreader without a CF slot? Is this monitor not aimed, in least at part, at photographers? Most DSLRs use CF cards and it would really have been cool to have a built-in CF reader... :(
 
Anyone have a Dell coupon that I could use on the U2410 :) pretty please :)
 
Ordered one of these last night. Hopefully, it will be an improvement over my 2405. Even my led screen on my xps1330 looks better than my 2405. Was about to order the 2709 but thought that would just be too big. Also, the resolution didn't seem to be high enough for a monitor that size. On paper the U2410 looks to be a better monitor anyway.

Could someone please tell me how low this monitor sits on the stand. I'm wanting a monitor that sits fairly low. My 2405 at its lowest setting sat too high to me.
 
Kuro said:
By providing a LUT in the form of a monitor/color profile. You can set the ICC profile in Windows (WinXP will need WinColor in order to activate the ICC profile, Win7 does it automaically).
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Do you recommend Spyder 3 pro or elite or just spyder 2 is more than enough?
 
Snowdog said:
If you are using a common gamut like 2.2 you may not see a difference between squares 1-3 on the black test.
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Everything below square 6 is completely lost on the U2410's sRGB mode, although even square 1 is easily visible in modes other than Adobe/sRGB. With 6 being the lowest visible value you're definitely starting to lose some detail on blacks. The "dither" issue, present on the squares only in sRGB/Adobe mode, just makes things worse. A static dither pattern is seen on all squares and slowly starts to get harder to notice once you're around an RGB value of about 30. So anything, particularly below 30, is made to look extremely grainy.
 
webbyboy said:
Do you recommend Spyder 3 pro or elite or just spyder 2 is more than enough?
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I had Spyder 3 Elite for 2 days and returned it. It is just not a very accurate colorimeter.

Eye One Display 2 is the defacto standard amongst graphics professionals/photographers.

The other unit I'd recommend is the Pantone Huey or Huey Pro. The Huey gets the job done better than the Spyder 3!
 
Hi mates!

I just ordered two of these U2410 on the dell.ca site at special sale price of $499 CDN each (from $750 CDN), for a grand total of $998 CDN (+ GST/PST/Environmental Disposal Fees...) :cool: :cool:

(In all and all, however, that's about the least reasonable price they could offer, since the mighty Canadian loonie is almost on par to the US dollar... At the special offer price, I essentially still paid the regular US price... :mad:)

I don't wanna sound like a lazy bum, but this thread is too long and although I have read a couple of random posts in random pages, I failed to figure out what's the general verdict about this monitor... I want to know what potential defects or issues I should check for immediately as soon as they arrive (1/2 weeks from now) and what can I do with the warranty... :D :D
 
As dell gives a good price to North Aamerica but priced around $700 in EU, I will stay away from U2410 from time to time. lol

Regards

Chum
 
Perzk said:
Could someone clarify the use of standard mode (wide gamut) vs sRGB mode?

I use my U2410 for a lot of photo work(i shoot weddings) in lightroom and photoshop. I also do a lot of web browsing. My final end product from the photos are almost always sRGB JPG files, so is there any reason for me to use wide gamut mode?

As I understood it, using wide gamut can give you wrong colors?
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Yes, there are reasons to use wide gamut. The first is that Photoshop is colour managed. Thus, if your PC is fed with a profile for your monitor which tells Photoshop it's a wide gamut screen, then another profile for your actual calibrated colours, it makes the requirement of sRGB less of an issue.. It's once you step outside colour managed apps that the problems between sRGB and wide gamut really begin..

Dark images may appear grainy on the U2410's sRGB mode currently, due to either limitations or the way in which the LUT on the U2410 was implemented (which may or may not be helped by a new firmware revision). Also, everything below RGB 6 is lost, meaning detail in the darkest shades of black will be totally invisible. sRGB mode will give you something closer to what sRGB should be in terms of colours, so it's still probably preferable for you personally to use this mode right now, until you calibrate your screen, at which point I'd tell you to switch to a calibrated standard mode within colour managed apps.

The calibration value that Dell sets, in factory conditions no less (which may well differ from your own), is a dE of <5 , which just isn't very strict. As others have commented, and I tend to agree with, these modes seems to calibrate on the "green side" of things too. With a decent enough device you can likely achieve better yourself. So I would get a colorimeter and calibrate standard mode if I were you, then make sure Adobe can see your screen and colour profiles. :)

The Dell CD does ship with an ICM profile on it, but AFAIK that's only used to describe the U2410, and you'll still need your own calibrated profile to go along with it. Once you have that then you'd maybe only want to use sRGB for checking things sometimes.
 
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khovanskiian said:
What do you mean by "stay away from U2410 from time to time" ????? :confused: :confused:
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Thought DELL may do the promo and check the website from time to time. Aalways be dispointted and won't go back to check again. Such a waste of time.

Anyway, can't wait for too long and already bought Eizo CG243W last week.

Regards

Chum
 
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khovanskiian said:
Hi mates!

I just ordered two of these U2410 on the dell.ca site at special sale price of $499 CDN each (from $750 CDN), for a grand total of $998 CDN (+ GST/PST/Environmental Disposal Fees...) :cool: :cool:

(In all and all, however, that's about the least reasonable price they could offer, since the mighty Canadian loonie is almost on par to the US dollar... At the special offer price, I essentially still paid the regular US price... :mad:)

I don't wanna sound like a lazy bum, but this thread is too long and although I have read a couple of random posts in random pages, I failed to figure out what's the general verdict about this monitor... I want to know what potential defects or issues I should check for immediately as soon as they arrive (1/2 weeks from now) and what can I do with the warranty... :D :D
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niknakk said:
a "normal person" U2410 review... no color science talk, no bias review of this sexy beast of a screen.

http://pencilgym.com
or
http://pencilgym.com/general/digging-in-dell-u2410-review/

enjoy.. :)
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key things to check for the moment you fire these behemoths up is..
1. dead pixels (didnt light up) stuck pixels (stuck as a solid color, doesnt change colors)
2. color tinting (use a full white image full screen and check for consistency)
3. i guess you could check viewing angles/text readability as some people complain about that.
4. other nit-picky problems are all associated to the u2410's sRGB mode only, so unless you're goin to use that mode, then there should be not much more to worry about. I'm drooling already with the screen in Custom mode.
 
For an average user that doesn't understand anything about color gamut, sRGB, LUT ICM profiles. can they use the monitor without calibrations and without having wrong colors on the screen?
 
From what I've read so far, If you want "normal" colours, then use sRGB mode.

If however, you find that the black noise/dither bothers you on the (Lagon I think?) test page, then you can use the Standard or Custom profile and try and eyeball the settings to that of sRGB.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has had any success in eyeballing and/or calibrating Game Mode to sRGB colours.

The other questions is what's the cheapest anyone here's bought a single piece U2410 from dell (including any coupons you may have had)? Simply curious as I just paid $499 CAD for this monitor -- waiting for it to be shipped.
 
I look through the whole thread, but yet to find any recommended settings for "Game" mode. I don't game much anymore, but when I do, I want a good experience. There is "no" lag in game mode, so that is good. Anyone have any good calibrated settings to get me started?


Bayer said:
What I'd like to know is if anyone has had any success in eyeballing and/or calibrating Game Mode to sRGB colours.
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Kuro said:
I had Spyder 3 Elite for 2 days and returned it. It is just not a very accurate colorimeter.

Eye One Display 2 is the defacto standard amongst graphics professionals/photographers.

The other unit I'd recommend is the Pantone Huey or Huey Pro. The Huey gets the job done better than the Spyder 3!
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You mean a cheaper unit like Huey Pro can perform better than Spyder 3? :eek:
 
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webbyboy said:
I realised that on gaming mode, the monitor dims and brighten by itself according the color on the screen?
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That's the dynamic contrast setting. If you don't like it you can switch it off in the Menu under Display Settings.
 
Bayer said:
From what I've read so far, If you want "normal" colours, then use sRGB mode.

If however, you find that the black noise/dither bothers you on the (Lagon I think?) test page, then you can use the Standard or Custom profile and try and eyeball the settings to that of sRGB.
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I'd argue the other way around. Average users will use RGB mode purely to avoid over-saturated colours. They are best switching it to Custom mode and turning down the saturation, or buying a calibration device and calibrating Standard Mode.

If anything, it's sRGB mode that DOESN'T provide "normal" colours. Since when have reds been orange? That's what you get under RGB mode, because you're basically taking this nice new screen and telling it "display this crappy range of colours devised for TV's from a past age instead". Don't get me wrong, there's good reasons for an sRGB mode, but those reasons are pretty much based around photography/printing, NOT around EG a gamer/typical web user who wants good colours, wants to be able to see shadow detail and detail in bright areas, and doesn't require a mode which will needlessly introduce dither type issues, poor blacks, and loss of contrast to their screen.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has had any success in eyeballing and/or calibrating Game Mode to sRGB colours.
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The whole point of Game Mode is to bypass processing to minimize latency. If you really want to tweak it you could also go through the graphics card settings..
The other questions is what's the cheapest anyone here's bought a single piece U2410 from dell (including any coupons you may have had)? Simply curious as I just paid $499 CAD for this monitor -- waiting for it to be shipped.
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The cheapest price anywhere was around US $430 delivered in Hong Kong. On the other end Dell UK charge around US $930 for these screens, with "good prices" being about US $750.
 
Bayer said:
From what I've read so far, If you want "normal" colours, then use sRGB mode.

If however, you find that the black noise/dither bothers you on the (Lagon I think?) test page, then you can use the Standard or Custom profile and try and eyeball the settings to that of sRGB.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has had any success in eyeballing and/or calibrating Game Mode to sRGB colours.

The other questions is what's the cheapest anyone here's bought a single piece U2410 from dell (including any coupons you may have had)? Simply curious as I just paid $499 CAD for this monitor -- waiting for it to be shipped.
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So the U2410 has several "color gamut modes" ? Which are they?

tech says the monitor covers 100% sRGB and 96% AdobeRGB

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong in the following statements. If we use the sRBG mode we are loosing a lot or color information based on the chart right?

584px-Colorspace.png


But anyway the PC applications must know what they are using in order to display the correct colors and in order to benefit from the wide color gamut?


also curious if eyeball calibration will work ok.
 
I just received my u2410 today, shipped from TN, assembled in mexico

my first impression out of the box, size is great , viewing angle from left to right is good, but from top to bottom not so good, perhaps its my inexperience with a 20"+ LCD or because im trying to compare to an s-ips dell 2007wfp. also as mentioned there is a pretty obvious pink overtone, no noticeable color shifting at first glance . if i stare at the monitor for a bit i get used to the pink hue a bit, but walk away briefly and come back and wow it's pretty damn pink! Obviously more so when looking at whites. didnt notice any dead or stuck pixels. I'll look into that more over the weekend. The imagery is somewhat grainy depending on what image your looking at. The blacks look very rich but ive yet to lower the settings to test. I can tell right off that this monitor is not easy on my eyes and would give me a headache if i had to put in a few hours using it. Most certainly need to tweak and/or calibrate... We'll see if this is going to cut the mustard after tweaking the settngs, as i need his monitor for design.
My fear is that ill go the weekend not be satisfied and feel compelled to shell out for an apple 24"cinema display , which i was trying to avoid the extra $$ in the first place
 
PatK said:
The whole point of Game Mode is to bypass processing to minimize latency. If you really want to tweak it you could also go through the graphics card settings..
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Odd as it may sound, that didn't help. Once I fired up a game, it completely ignored my changed color settings and I was once again looking at Batman: Planet Mars.
 
Hey PatK, thanks man, there's a wealth of info in your post.

Just to clarify though, since I don't have the monitor yet, are you saying that in Game Mode, there's no way (through the monitor's OSD) to adjust colours (saturation) ?
 
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