Dell Strikes Back - editorial @ [H] Consumer

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Chris_Morley

Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
Joined
Jul 5, 2000
Messages
3,609
Hey y'all, we have a new editorial up that you won't want to miss. In April we were invited to Dell's Round Rock, Texas campus and spent four hours there, including some time with Michael Dell himself.

Our four hours at Dell were not wasted with PR double-speak. Indeed, our meetings were with Directors and Managers that were immediately responsible for the direction of Dell’s XPS product lines. What was very evident to us was that the people we met with, including Michael Dell, were passionate about their opportunity to improve the customer experience and show us exactly how they intended to do it. They clearly outlined their efforts ranging from new products to a completely new software deployment strategy on their systems. We were even given a demo of Dell’s upcoming DellConnect technical support feature that allows a technician to, with the permission of the user, directly fix issues with a customer’s computer over the internet, cutting down on miscommunications and allowing Dell support to “teach” a customer how to fix their computers on their own.
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I like what dell is doing...

and their new XPS case is awsome.

If I was to buy an intel workstation I would go this route. (and now it looks like I won't even have to reinstall the OS to get a clean install)

You should have tried to get dell to include a few more bios options for tweakers in their XPS systems, though.
 
How has dell improved there technical support? Everytime I call I get a Indian that can barely speak english.
 
The last batch of GX520s at my work came form dell with no preinstalled software... just drivers witch I found to be all upto date.. the windows update only had about 5 updates to do so that was pretty up to date.. and the computer ran great. In fact it was the first batch of dell that I rolled out to the users with the orignal dell install on it and not my IMAGE.
 
So do you guys have a relationship with Dell now where you can anonymously purchase a system then RMA it back at no charge, similar to the other companies you've evaluated? I know you guys bought the first XPS system out of your own pockets.
 
What a neat opportunity to get inside Dell. I'm sure you learned a lot while you there.

I hate to write this, but I'm a little disappointed with your article. I saw none of the incisive critique or questions that I value and look forward to in your work. To me this read more like advertorial than editorial, with [h] reporting on everything they'd seen and promoting it, but not asking any questions. A few of the most obvious would be: how many systems figure into the "select xps" category? why isn't dell making this offer to every customer? (when) will the performance driver option really be available? when is dell connect launching? why are they promoting these things with no launch date? what are some of the inherent problems in a program like dell connect? will any of this stuff ever come to market? why won't dell get on the forum and respond? are they ever planning on putting their customer support forum back up?

I know getting access to dell's campus is a major coup - kudos to you for that. but you're patting them on the back for supposedly integrating programs and ideas that the boutiques have been doing for years. In reviews, you are very quick to point out problems with boutiques (and absolutely right to do so). But here you are pointing out no problems, asking no questions.
 
I didn't see a mention of it but thought I'd still ask. Why wouldn't they charge a few bucks (not much, if anything) and add a "factory overclock!"? This makes the gamers feel like they have some type of added value, and it is something that can differentiate their Dell from the one in mom's room. I’m not saying it has to be that big of an overclock, even at 5% it would be faster than stock and should be stable as a rock. I know that once you overclock a CPU the factory warranty is lost but Dell has the means to cover the cost. If I really wanted to get technical my warranty was voided on my CPU on first boot. My Abit board had the CPU running at 202 FSB with an added .05V added to the VCore. Every computer in my home is overclocked, even my HTPC. I still have an old T-Bird that has been running overclocked since I bought it some 5 years ago. I’m sure I will before my time is up, but I have never seen a CPU die from being overclocked. The added heat and voltage is what kills the thing not the speed it’s running at.

Those two screenshots, is one from the [H] review and one from the latest “clean” install? If that’s the case that’s a nice improvement but it still has room to be tweaked. Too many desktop icons and taskbar icons are my biggest pet peeve when it comes to computers, call me a minimalist.

Another option they should consider is having the computer boot/installed with different profiles. One can be the everyday chat, e-mail, surf, etc. profile and the other can be a gaming profile. With this profile Dell could disable a lot of MS services, thus saving resources. When I game I generally disable any running task that is not pertinent. This includes killing my AV and going through my Task Manager and stopping what doesn’t need to be running. Why the hell do I need the spooler.exe running while playing a game? I don’t know of a game where you need to print something out while playing. They could take services like that and completely disable them through the Computer Management.

My $.02.
 
lovemyPC said:
What a neat opportunity to get inside Dell. I'm sure you learned a lot while you there.

I hate to write this, but I'm a little disappointed with your article. I saw none of the incisive critique or questions that I value and look forward to in your work. To me this read more like advertorial than editorial, with [h] reporting on everything they'd seen and promoting it, but not asking any questions. A few of the most obvious would be: how many systems figure into the "select xps" category? why isn't dell making this offer to every customer? (when) will the performance driver option really be available? when is dell connect launching? why are they promoting these things with no launch date? what are some of the inherent problems in a program like dell connect? will any of this stuff ever come to market? why won't dell get on the forum and respond? are they ever planning on putting their customer support forum back up?

I know getting access to dell's campus is a major coup - kudos to you for that. but you're patting them on the back for supposedly integrating programs and ideas that the boutiques have been doing for years. In reviews, you are very quick to point out problems with boutiques (and absolutely right to do so). But here you are pointing out no problems, asking no questions.
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DellConnect is up and running. If you have a Dell you can use it now. Everything else we talked about is already implemented, except they were not clear on the performance driver issue - which we clearly stated.

Dell is seeing how their no pre-installed software option goes over with their customers and they told us they'll be looking to expanding the products they offer it on in the future.

Also, we have already pointed out the issues, very strongly I might add, in our evaluation of the XPS 400, Dell has shown us that they have addressed or are in the middle of addressing these issues right now.

We have hands on experience with one system in particular that espouses these changes, the XPS 200, and believe me, if we weren't impressed by it, this article would probably have a different tune. This article was written simultaneously to us testing more Dell systems, so we have extensive experience with their tech support and their new software deployment.

Bottom line is, you should know by now that I don't take BS from companies, and neither does Kyle, regardless of who it is...and if thought for one second that we were get a snow job I wouldn't have written this article.

:)
 
That was a very neat article.
These guys(Dell) seem to be rethinking support which is nice to hear. I really like the remote assistance aspect.
 
Chris_Morley said:
XPS support?
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I had a lot of trouble with the XPS Support, but this new system looks like it will help improve the tech support for XPS customers. Kudos to Dell!

I still would like to see the XPS Support back in the US though...

This is great news for the XPS line though. I think Dell will have a great future in high-end computers if they keep improving like this.
 
Chris_Morley said:
Bottom line is, you should know by now that I don't take BS from companies, and neither does Kyle, regardless of who it is...and if thought for one second that we were get a snow job I wouldn't have written this article.

:)
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I too thought the article was too 'trusting' and promotional. But I trust [H] and Kyle not to be fooled by a 'whirlwind' tour of the Dell campus, and even getting a audience with the 'King', Mike Dell.

Did they ply you with woman and booze? I thought I was reading IGN for a second and had to check the by-line.

I hope you guys are right about the 'new' Dell.
 
That's very cool that Dell is actively working on giving a better user-experience on their high-end computers that used to be full of bloatware... The tech support stuff is also great, as currently opinions on their tech support is a mixed bag. I have had no issues with their support, but I know many people who have said they hate dealing with their support.

Good article.
 
Great to see that they're trying to fix themselves. I agree with others, though, that it comes off as "Dell paid us to say this". Detailing their new plans is great, but people need actions not promises. If you've went through the (very awesome, might I add) typical way you review the whole customer experience, it'd change the tone of the article without leaving the nagging little voice that says "this sounds too friendly".

You say you've seen it in action, but we don't have reports from you telling us that, nor comments in the article really driving home that thoery. It'd help if you said "Here's their new great tech support system, that we've tried out ourselves and will be giving a detailed review of soon" as opposed to "Here's their new great tech support system, they said it'll be cool!"

Also, one of the problems in the original article, and still one of the "sticking points" on if I recommend a Dell to friends/family, is the original software disc. Are they still using the HORRID idea of a disk image restore on the harddrive, as well as a pain-in-the-ass hassle of getting a winxp disc and other software discs yourself?

Not trying to be harsh, but hell...I read [h] for the way it doesn't let companies slack, and so of course I'm going to turn that around if I think an article comes off as "snow balled" as you put it. The whole article seemed to be way too eager to thank them for their plans, instead of actually testing out those plans or taking it with a grain of salt.
 
I mentioned more than once in that article that we have personally experienced many of these changes first hand with the Dell systems we have in house.
 
I had such a poor experience with Dell's customer support last year, that I don't know if I could ever be convinced to deal with them again. It is not fun or confidence-instilling to be fed lines in broken English, only to get the problem instantly resolved when Visa speaks for you.

And my family bought 3 Dell systems, all of which had hardware failures quickly. I realize this is just a statistics game, but I don't like those odds.

It's a good thing if they are changing their focus and direction, and maybe I can consider them in the future.
 
Chris_Morley said:
Bottom line is, you should know by now that I don't take BS from companies, and neither does Kyle, regardless of who it is...and if thought for one second that we were get a snow job I wouldn't have written this article.

:)
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Again not to put too fine a point on it (or repeat what others have been saying), but the tone of this editorial is very different from most everything I've seen written by you guys. Even the good reviews (I'm thinking here of Maingear's recent high score or your latest review of HP) have criticism and things to improve upon.

I don't think for one minute you were given a snow job (as you put it). But I do question the editorial staff on applauding Dell for beginning to implement programs that the boutiques have had in place for years. As you mentioned, most boutiques don't include bloatware and most boutiques have much more thoroughly trained support staffs than Dell. Most also include a full restore disk. I also find it telling that Dell appears to have issued your invitation only after a particularly bumpy review, but didn't address that review or readers' posts with any direct communication.
:)
 
We will continue to evaluate Dell products in the same manner we have, and believe me, if for any reason they do not live up to what we have just told you about, we will be the first to make it known.
 
lovemyPC said:
But I do question the editorial staff on applauding Dell for beginning to implement programs that the boutiques have had in place for years.
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Well what exactly is your question(s) then? Ask some questions and I will personally answer them. If you think something here is bullshit, well take off the skirt and put on the gloves and lets go a few rounds.

You have my attention.
 
Chris, you are to be commended for replying with grace and restraint to repeated, unsubstantiated accusations of editorial bias. The article was a news piece, not a review, for pete's sake. Kudos to you.


My gut reaction? I made [H]ardOCP my main source of enthusiast news because I noticed that I kept following links from other sites to this one, so why not just go here in the first place? Some of the other sites were more "serious" and/or "slick" in their presentation, but [H] was more fun, covered a broader range, and updated its news far more frequently. Plus the forums are very active and a goldmine of valuable information. But now we see this: the key department heads and the founder himself of a Tier One OEM have courted your favor in addressing issues from a negative review. I think that makes the [H] officially a Tier One Enthusiast Site! Congratulations!

If Carly Fiorina had just given you guys a call, she might have held on to her post at HP...

[edit]While I was typing this Kyle showed up. I wondered how much of this crap he would put up with--go get 'em, man!
 
Chris_Morley said:
I mentioned more than once in that article that we have personally experienced many of these changes first hand with the Dell systems we have in house.
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It felt more like a footnote I guess, and that's what is giving this whole article the funky vibe. We're used to "We got their stuff, and we put it through their paces. Here's what we found out." instead of "Dell invited us, and showed us a demo of how their tech support works". Instead of "this is what we found out and checked for ourselves" it's "here's what they told us". The "viewpoint" of the whole article feels like it's from inside Dell's headquarters.

And some lines like this, when taken out of context "The bottom line here is that Dell XPS gaming systems will run more games faster and with less overhead and less hassle." can really put an overall tone on the article. Faster/less overhead/less hassle? Compared to what? I know you mean previous Dell systems, but I'm not going to buy a Dell computer. I'd bet the majority of people who read your article who ARE considering buying a Dell system can take that as "Oh wow, Dell makes the best gaming systems! No way could I build one myself or use another boutique that would perform near as well!"

Then plus, I've yet to see any [h] personal review of the new support system, or mention of one forthcoming in the article. And of course, as I said before, no mention of software discs (disc image on the hd should NEVER be considered acceptable).

And no, not trying to start a flame war, trying to have an actual discussion on a discussion board :).
 
IMO, even the second desktop screenshot is cluttered. What gamers wants an AOL or other ISP icons on the desktop? Look at the extras in the system tray. Dell doesn't seem to completely get it - gamers want a clean installation without bloatware on the desktop and system tray, not just "less" of it.

I have dealt with their tech support, but not specifically with their XPS support. I have zero interest in ever again speaking to someone with a thick foreign accent named "Scott/John/Tim/<insert other American name here>."

Dell is the wal-mart of personal computing. Sure it is cheaper than everyone else, but you pay for what you get in terms of quality of the product and customer service.
 
xZAOx said:
It felt more like a footnote I guess, and that's what is giving this whole article the funky vibe. We're used to "We got their stuff, and we put it through their paces. Here's what we found out." instead of "Dell invited us, and showed us a demo of how their tech support works". Instead of "this is what we found out and checked for ourselves" it's "here's what they told us". The "viewpoint" of the whole article feels like it's from inside Dell's headquarters.

And some lines like this, when taken out of context "The bottom line here is that Dell XPS gaming systems will run more games faster and with less overhead and less hassle." can really put an overall tone on the article. Faster/less overhead/less hassle? Compared to what? I know you mean previous Dell systems, but I'm not going to buy a Dell computer. I'd bet the majority of people who read your article who ARE considering buying a Dell system can take that as "Oh wow, Dell makes the best gaming systems! No way could I build one myself or use another boutique that would perform near as well!"

Then plus, I've yet to see any [h] personal review of the new support system, or mention of one forthcoming in the article. And of course, as I said before, no mention of software discs (disc image on the hd should NEVER be considered acceptable).

And no, not trying to start a flame war, trying to have an actual discussion on a discussion board :).
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We have witnessed first hand that Dell's new software deployment strategy and can tell you that we have not witnessed any of the problems that we had with the XPS 400. So we have a good reference point, and now we know independent of what Dell has shown us that it is working.

On the support side, we have had extensive experience with Dell support since the XPS 400, and it is much different this time around. We have had enough contact with them to believe that it is not a fluke, either. As to DellConnect, we were shown a live demo where one person in the room logged into the www.dell.com/remote website and "talked" with a "technician" who was in the same room, logged in with all their other remote technicians. This truly was a live demo that used the technology any customer would have access to. You can be sure we'll test it out on our machines as well.

I have had a month to brew over this information, check it against the systems we have in house, and let the "wow, I got to meet Michael Dell" feeling wear off. Was it cool that we were given a personal tour? Heck yeah. Did I or Kyle let it affect what we have conveyed to our readers? Absolutely not. The fact is that our first and only responsibility is to our readers. I have to sleep at night, too. We have shown time after time that we do not pull any punches. That includes companies that are even advertising with us!
 
I have to agree with some of the points raised before , they should have been doing this long before now. It's not rocket science is it.

I often buy dells for clients and it nearly always requires me to spend a good hour or two removing the crap from the systems before I dare handing them over to clients.


Try buying one of the systems that has the "Dell Media Experience" option on the customise screen which allows you to remove it

"No Dell Media Experience add £0.00
Dell® Media Experience 3.0 Basic [Included in Price]"

Shame that when you actually select no dell media experience the following error is shown
"There is a compatibility issue with the Dell Media Experience you chose.
! Not compatible with your current Microsoft Operating System selection"

Why give you the option if you can't actually choose the damn thing.

Its about time they gave advanced customers the right options and not create extra work for us. I'm a great fan of the hardware but the software and support side of dell is terrible. I won't even go into my 2hr call to get a faulty keyboard with a broken space bar replaced.
 
Like xZAOx, I'm just trying to have a discussion here and I think maybe I represent the viewpoint of at least few people here. Not being accusatory or spiteful.

Chris, I appreciate your honesty about the wow factor. I bet it is really cool to meet Michael Dell. It's just seeing something demonstrated in a Dell lab inside Dell headquarters is not an objective demonstration.

My understanding of the justification behind your review process is that you wanted to experience the PC and the company as a regular consumer would and not as a reviewer. And that's because you didn't want the builders to provide you with a different product than what you could order online, right? Because who could know what special tweaks and tunes they might put into the build, let alone the special treatment from support, right? So that's why this whole report from inside Dell is striking some folks here as somewhat different from your normal style of reportage.
 
To be blunt, I don't care how much Dell has listened and the software and support changes they have made.

As long as they are still using proprietary parts like that screwball PSU I would never buy, nor recommend an XPS system to anyone. This comes from a former Dell Dimension 4400 and current Dell 2405FPW owner. There's a great deal of difference between a desktop for the masses and a $6K gaming system At that price point it is completely unacceptable to be using ANY proprietary parts.

If you get to talk to them again ram that point home.
 
We didn't notice proprietary parts in our XPS 400 (though the motherboard did have a "notch" taken out of it - in theory a mBTX board could fit), and we were told specifically that the next generation XPS will be 100% upgradeable.
 
allright!!! so now they install less software.. maybe soon enoguh they'll stop making a bs partition and stealing our harddrive space!

everytime i get a dell comptuer, the first thing i do is format it to recover from the loss partition they stole from us ;x
 
lovemyPC said:
Like xZAOx, I'm just trying to have a discussion here and I think maybe I represent the viewpoint of at least few people here. Not being accusatory or spiteful.

Chris, I appreciate your honesty about the wow factor. I bet it is really cool to meet Michael Dell. It's just seeing something demonstrated in a Dell lab inside Dell headquarters is not an objective demonstration.

My understanding of the justification behind your review process is that you wanted to experience the PC and the company as a regular consumer would and not as a reviewer. And that's because you didn't want the builders to provide you with a different product than what you could order online, right? Because who could know what special tweaks and tunes they might put into the build, let alone the special treatment from support, right? So that's why this whole report from inside Dell is striking some folks here as somewhat different from your normal style of reportage.
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Thanks for your thoughts, they are noted.
 
Am I the only person who read the article and thought cool, a large company is trying to do better in a way I like?
I never buy OEM computers, but Iike to know who I can recommend and just the fact that Dell is trying is a good thing in my book.
I also thought from the beginning of the article that this wasn't to be taken as a review as such. Looked more like HardOCP had an opportunity to see firsthand from the company what changes were being made, and to probably share some of their own ideas. I think the people who read this site do need to decide if they trust the people running the site enough to not be totally against a report that doesn't match (in style) past reports. Hell I would like to see other companies who got bad reviews invite HardOCP in for a look at changes, this is one of the few sites I would trust to report on this. I'm surprised some of the recent reviews haven't cost advertising money, and that is commendable.
 
Sorry but I'm not convinced. First of all if I was going to spend that kind of $$$ it would not be on an XPS 600 because it uses proprietary parts and is overpriced. Does this article only refer to the XPS 600 or also the XPS 400 which you reviewed? The XPS 400 STILL does not have the option of a 7900 vid card. Regarding the new diagnostic tools it will be interesting to see how well that really does for Dell. Garbage in equals garbage out and if the "technicians" in Bangalore don't know what they are doing no tool is going to help. I've spent years seeing tech demos in lab or demo environments that fail in actual use. I am surprised to see that nothing was mentioned about Dells' use of proprietary parts (XPS 400 uses proprietary motherboard and power supply, you didn't know this??). What about the My Way "search assistant"? Are they still bundling that in? How about AMD procs for consumer level hardware? What about not charging extra for a real XP CD? Still way too much installed software. Sorry but it really seems like you guys let Dell off easy on your visit. I'm surprised after all the great reviews you have done. Lets be clear that any improvements Dell is making have only been after stock price drops and years of customer discontent. Makes it hard for me to believe any changes will be sustained long term. I guess we will see how it goes but you guys sure semed starstruck by your visit to Dell. I hate to say that but thats how it comes across with so many questions unanswered or unasked.
 
qdemn7 said:
To be blunt, I don't care how much Dell has listened and the software and support changes they have made.

As long as they are still using proprietary parts like that screwball PSU I would never buy, nor recommend an XPS system to anyone. This comes from a former Dell Dimension 4400 and current Dell 2405FPW owner. There's a great deal of difference between a desktop for the masses and a $6K gaming system At that price point it is completely unacceptable to be using ANY proprietary parts.

If you get to talk to them again ram that point home.
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All the new Dell desktops that I have worked with didn't have proprietary parts. (Includes 2x00 and 4700)
 
Not that it is really excusable to charge an extra 10$ for OS CDs (though I noticed some machines it is included in the charge).

I've never had a problem of getting the CDs, generally I just dispatch an e-mail to customer support that I want an OS CD and Drivers, I generally get some sorta generic response. After which I send another and every time so far they have next day mailed me the OS CD, a Drivers CD, and Reinstallation CDs for the DVD player software and Burning Software.

Frankly while I don't like the fact that Dell's customer support is basically reading off a script, I know the script well enough that I can get them to the RMA process pretty quickly.

Heck for the most part between Dell Spare Parts and Support I've had the best end-user experience of any company I've ever had to deal with including botiques.

Which includes doing such befuddling things as requesting specific LCD panels, specific OEM keyboards, screw kits, palm rests, etc etc.

Plus I have a certain satisfaction, (and this is mostly for laptops) that parts will exist for many years to come and the prices for them will in general be reasonable. Also there is a thriving secondary market of parts available from other sources.
 
lovemyPC said:
1. Can't we all just be friends? :) 2. Why are you commending Dell for doing this? 3. Why the kudos to Dell? 4. Why is there absolutely no critique of any kind at all in this editorial?
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1. No.
2. Dell is the largest computer seller in the world and I think both Chris and I are very impressed to see a company of this size "correct" its actions especially how they pertain to gamers. To see a 5 month turnaround to start fixing issues impresses Chris and I and that is how we wrote.
3. See above.
4. This was an editorial exactly about the subject matter being discussed. We have an XPS400 and XPS200 in house now that are being evaluated and will follow our normal pattern. But all in all....this was an editorial, not an evaluation.
 
I have lot of faith in [H] but I can't help but come away disappointed in the article. I've been a huge fan of Dell for MANY years and up until recently all of my purchases have been from Dell (still have 2 lap tops and 1 XPS system). I have to say that Dell's support has taken a a huge dive. I no longer call support unless I absolutely have to and its a painful experience at best. Head over to the Dell forums and get your own opinion.

While its nice that Dell has stopped loading bloatware doing so on a limited basis doesn't show much commitment. Remote access is a good tool but not one that will eliminate the need to speak with a tech. Good direction they are heading in but these are baby steps. I've stopped recommending Dell's to my friends over 2 years ago and nothing I've read has changed that.

I was hoping to see some questions as to if Dell is committed to the enthusiast then when will the provide the option for us to purchase AMD procs? Why can't someone as big as Dell give us the option to have either dual gpus for either ATI or Nvidia?
 
Best H article so far.

I.d love to meet Michael myself. Did he happen to mention when the conroe XPS systems will be out? Bet he.s got one for himself already.
 
jon67 said:
Best H article so far.

I.d love to meet Michael myself. Did he happen to mention when the conroe XPS systems will be out? Bet he.s got one for himself already.
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I knew you'd like this. We were shown a lot of cool things at Dell-many things we can't talk about. But I think you will be impressed if and when they are brought to market.
 
jon67 said:
Best H article so far.

I.d love to meet Michael myself. Did he happen to mention when the conroe XPS systems will be out? Bet he.s got one for himself already.
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Is this some kind of in-joke? "Best H article so far."? You can't be serious can you?
 
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