Dell Perc 5/E help

Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
So I am thinking of getting a Dell Perc 5/i to RAID 5

The thing is, I have an eVGA 750i FTW and knowing how it only has 2xPCI-E x16 slots, I don't know how I am going to be able to find a way to use the PCI-E x8 by the RAID controller.

I have found some websites selling PCI-E x16 to PCI (-E x1) converters/adapters and I want to know if it would actually help.

If it is so much trouble, should I just use the on-board RAID controller to RAID 3 hard drives?
 

StarTrek4U

Gawd
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,011
A 8x card will work in a 16x slot, so you really shouldn't have any problems unless you're using them both
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
The thing is, I will be using the 2xPCI-E x16 for 2 8800GT's in SLi, leaving me with PCI and PCI-E x1 lanes
 

thebeephaha

2[H]4U
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
2,054
Oh... that's not going to work well... You would have to modify the card or the slot to make it fit and then it would limit the bandwidth severely.

Can't be done and end up working how you want it.
 

swatbat

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 25, 2001
Messages
12,891
Anyone know where I can get a PCI-E x8 to PCI/PCI-E x1 converter?
You can't run pci-e in a pci slot. As far as running the card in a 1x slot it may or may not work. Your best bet is to use something elce.
 

UICompE02

SCSI Master
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
866
Anyone know where I can get a PCI-E x8 to PCI/PCI-E x1 converter?
If you're comfortable with your Dremel skills, you can actually notch out the back part of a x1 PCI-E slot and then put any length card you want in there. All PCI-E cards are required by the specification to support x1 operation (which doesn't necessarily mean they all do, but I know for certain the PERC 5 does). The drawback is that you'll be limited to 250MB/s transfers (in each direction), which depending on your hard drives and array setup might not be the bottleneck -- it's still twice as fast as conventional PCI.
 

AreEss

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
2,180
You CANNOT run a PERC5/E in 1x mode, period. You cannot supply the power required to the IOP333 on the card, much less the cache. It requires a minimum PCIe 4x with power on all four lanes. Otherwise, it "works" but has SEVERE issues. The PERC5/E masks it, those not gutted for Dell will scream bloody murder.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
Then would anyone have another recommendation as to what kind of RAID card I can use that is similar to the Perc 5 in terms of price/performance?
 

farscapesg1

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 4, 2004
Messages
2,590
I have no idea how it compares performance wise, but I found a AAR-2610sa on ebay for $70 shipped. They appear to be an OEM Adaptec similar to the AAR-2410sa but with 6 SATA ports. It is a PCI-X (supposedly compatible with a standard PCI slot), but I ordered one to play with to try to build a simple file server for video/music/documents.

Here is the ebay link
 

UICompE02

SCSI Master
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
866
You CANNOT run a PERC5/E in 1x mode, period. You cannot supply the power required to the IOP333 on the card, much less the cache. It requires a minimum PCIe 4x with power on all four lanes. Otherwise, it "works" but has SEVERE issues. The PERC5/E masks it, those not gutted for Dell will scream bloody murder.
That depends on the particular mother board implementation. There are two possible power limits for a x1 slot, either 10W or 25W. I haven't used the motherboard that the original post mentions, so I don't know what it implements, but I've never had a problem using a x8 storage controller (PERC 5/e included among many other SAS controllers) in any of the x1 slots I've tried. No matter what the connector width is, all of the power is supplied by the x1 portion of the slot.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
That depends on the particular mother board implementation. There are two possible power limits for a x1 slot, either 10W or 25W. I haven't used the motherboard that the original post mentions, so I don't know what it implements, but I've never had a problem using a x8 storage controller (PERC 5/e included among many other SAS controllers) in any of the x1 slots I've tried. No matter what the connector width is, all of the power is supplied by the x1 portion of the slot.
If this is true, then I should be able to use the Perc 5/E in one of my PCI or PCI-E slot?
That means the only downside is the limited bandwidth available to the RAID card?
 

UICompE02

SCSI Master
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
866
If this is true, then I should be able to use the Perc 5/E in one of my PCI or PCI-E slot?
That means the only downside is the limited bandwidth available to the RAID card?
It seems to depend on your particular motherboard's implementation as to whether it can supply more than 10W to a x1 slot. I'm not sure if that information is in the user's manual or not (I'd guess not...), but maybe the manufacturer can tell you.

Also, be careful, PCI and PCI-E are not compatible, so you can only use it in one of the PCI-E slots.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
It seems to depend on your particular motherboard's implementation as to whether it can supply more than 10W to a x1 slot. I'm not sure if that information is in the user's manual or not (I'd guess not...), but maybe the manufacturer can tell you.

Also, be careful, PCI and PCI-E are not compatible, so you can only use it in one of the PCI-E slots.
I will check later, but I am using an eVGA 750i FTW

Also, I do know my ports, but the PCI-E x1 connector doesn't seem be big enough for the connector of the Perc 5, just the PCI slot is...

Again, if I were to use either the PCI or PCI-E slot, the only con would be the limited bandwidth right?
 

Paendrag

n00b
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
27
Again, if I were to use either the PCI or PCI-E slot, the only con would be the limited bandwidth right?
It's been stated several times in this thread, so I don't know how you've missed it, but PCI-E and PCI are not compatible, so your card will not work in a PCI slot. Also a PCI-E x8 card does not physically fit into a PCI-E x1 slot, you'd have to file away part of the PCI-E x1 slot and hope it can deliver enough power to the card. If it can deliver enough power the only problem should be the limited bandwidth.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
It's been stated several times in this thread, so I don't know how you've missed it, but PCI-E and PCI are not compatible, so your card will not work in a PCI slot. Also a PCI-E x8 card does not physically fit into a PCI-E x1 slot, you'd have to file away part of the PCI-E x1 slot and hope it can deliver enough power to the card. If it can deliver enough power the only problem should be the limited bandwidth.
I didn't miss it but Im just asking about the con

The reason I put PCI is because that looks like the only slot that is long enough

As for the PCI-E x1, would I file the back of slot?
 

thebeephaha

2[H]4U
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
2,054
"As for the PCI-E x1, would I file the back of slot?"

Yes to allow the 8x to fit or you can cut off part of the Perc. But honestly you can get an alternative card that will work better for your needs that will go in a 1x slot natively.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
Ok...right now I need a recommendation for a good, cheap, PCI-E x1 RAID card as the PCI slot will be occupied by my Elite Pro
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
Ok guys, the options I am thinking of are to either sell my 750i FTW and get a 780i or just get a PCI-E x1 RAID card for 2 DVD burners and using on-board RAID 5

Anyone have a very, very <$20 PCI-E RAID card?
Anyone have any experience with the 750i FTW on-board RAID, benchmarks, pics?
 

thebeephaha

2[H]4U
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
2,054
"Anyone have a very, very <$20 PCI-E RAID card?"

Hmm.. Nope, not hardware RAID anyways.

FYI, NVIDIA onboard RAID5 is terrible. I gave that up on my main array as soon as I could. If I were you, save up a bit for a good raid card, you won't be happy with the cheap ones.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
SInce we're discussing RAID anyways, what do you guys recommend?

RAID 5 using 3+ WD 640GB or Samsung/Seagate 750GB

or

RAID 10 using 4+ Seagate 7200.11 500GB
 

thebeephaha

2[H]4U
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
2,054
Well if you get a Perc it wont do RAID10, just do RAID5 with some 750GB Seagates or Samsung. (For speed I would get the Samsung but some people do say the drives are not entirely reliable.)

Honestly though it sounds like you haven't thought this through too well, you have been jumping all over from using a Perc to onboard to cheap raid card and you don't even know which drives and what configuration you want to use. I'm not trying to bash you but take a step back and think about what your total budget is, what limitations your motherboard has, and how much storage space you think you will need.

Things to recap
  • Perc 5/i card won't work with the 750i unless you do major modifications and you will have limited bandwidth. Or ditch your second video card.
  • If you upgrade motherboards you can use the Perc 5/i, but then you have to sell your existing board.
  • The Perc needs special cables and a battery backup unit. Expect to pay 150-200 after all that.
  • Cheap raid cards are a no no, just save up money for a good hardware one.
  • The LSI card I linked to earlier will work with your board now as is and uses standard SATA cables.
  • The WD drives I do not recommend due to raid issues unless you turn on TLER.
 

Blue Fox

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
11,726
Things to recap
  • Perc 5/i card won't work with the 750i unless you do major modifications and you will have limited bandwidth. Or ditch your second video card.
  • If you upgrade motherboards you can use the Perc 5/i, but then you have to sell your existing board.
  • The Perc needs special cables and a battery backup unit. Expect to pay 150-200 after all that.
  • Cheap raid cards are a no no, just save up money for a good hardware one.
  • The LSI card I linked to earlier will work with your board now as is and uses standard SATA cables.
  • The WD drives I do not recommend due to raid issues unless you turn on TLER.
1. Unless that's a chipset limitation, the PERC 5 cards only require disabling the SMBus on Intel chipsets and usually work just finish with nVidia ones.
2. See above.
3. SAS controllers require SAS cables...nothing special about them. A single cable (which supports 4 drives) can be had for $12 if you shop around. Battery backup is not necessary either.
4. The PERC 5 is not a 'cheap RAID card'. It is a rebranded LSI card. You can even flash it with the LSI firmware.
5. See 3/4.
6. Can't disagree here.
 

thebeephaha

2[H]4U
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
2,054
1. Unless that's a chipset limitation, the PERC 5 cards only require disabling the SMBus on Intel chipsets and usually work just finish with nVidia ones.
2. See above.
3. SAS controllers require SAS cables...nothing special about them. A single cable (which supports 4 drives) can be had for $12 if you shop around. Battery backup is not necessary either.
4. The PERC 5 is not a 'cheap RAID card'. It is a rebranded LSI card. You can even flash it with the LSI firmware.
5. See 3/4.
6. Can't disagree here.
Oh, I should have made myself more clear.

1. Was refering to him using his 1x slot.
3. To someone new to all this those cables can seem pretty special. :)
4. Was referring to him asking about a sub $20 card earlier in the thread.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
Update guys...

I have RMAed Refunded my 750i FTW because of DOA and bent socket pins...(When I put my CPU in the socket, the bottom does not align with the pins, and when I put the latch down, I can't)

I will be getting the 780i so I can use the 3rd PCI-E x16...eVGA or XFX?...Can I use the first and second PCI-E x16 slots for SLi and the 3rd bottom PCI-E x16 for the Perc 5/i

When I first bought my mobo around 3 weeks ago, I was just thinking of using on-board RAID and just get cheap $20 RAID card for 2 DVD Burners...I am thinking about 2TB's worth of storage...

What do you guys recommend though, (4) Seagate 7200.11 500GBs or (3) 750GBs?,
Will I run into any real problems using WD 640GBs for RAID 5?

What's the difference among the Perc 5/i and the other Perc (i.e. Perc 3/i...4/i)?
 

thebeephaha

2[H]4U
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
2,054
I will be getting the 780i so I can use the 3rd PCI-E x16...eVGA or XFX?...Can I use the first and second PCI-E x16 slots for SLi and the 3rd bottom PCI-E x16 for the Perc 5/i
SLI cards go in 1 and 3, Perc goes in the middle.

What do you guys recommend though, (4) Seagate 7200.11 500GBs or (3) 750GBs?
Four 500's would be faster, but three 750's is going to be more expandable in the future.

Will I run into any real problems using WD 640GBs for RAID 5?
Can't say, I was using four 160GB WD Scorpio laptop drives in a mini RAID5 on my Perc (now put them on the NVRAID) but I enabled TLER to prevent the drives dropping off the array. The 640's may work just fine, they might now. I know Ockie had huge issues with the 1TB GP drives, I can't remember if he used TLER or not.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
NEW UPDATE:

So I fianlly scored a Perc 5/i Adapter for $54+$15 S/H (actually a few) so I can finally rest after a week or two about worrrying about winning an auction for one of them badboys

I am probably going to buy another WD 640GB on Newegg for $95+tax tomorrow...

The thing is, since I have a spare, do you recommend keeping that spare just in case that one breaks or having a spare to use in a new build or should I just sell it and and recoup some money?
 

farscapesg1

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 4, 2004
Messages
2,590
Personally I would keep a spare, but I tend to be a bit of a packrat when it comes to computer equipment.

Congrats on getting the card. If it was Ebay, that sounds like the same auction I got outbid on :( I was hoping to get a card to test in my ASUS M2N-SLI board cheaper than the usual $120 since I've heard mixed reports of it working.

Hope it works out for you ;)
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
Can you guys show me a website that sells breakout SAS to SATA cables?

What memory is compatible with this RAID card? Would 1GB make more a difference than 512MB?

I see that this card does RAID 10 even though some say it doesnt...should I go RAID 10 or RAID 5?

EDIT: Can anyone answer this question because I have yet to get a response...What is the different between the Perc 5/I and the Perc 6/I ?

Thanks in advance guys
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
537
Personally I would keep a spare, but I tend to be a bit of a packrat when it comes to computer equipment.

Congrats on getting the card. If it was Ebay, that sounds like the same auction I got outbid on :( I was hoping to get a card to test in my ASUS M2N-SLI board cheaper than the usual $120 since I've heard mixed reports of it working.

Hope it works out for you ;)
It was the auction where there were 28 of them available, hence the cheap price...you should've at least gotten one...:confused:
 
Top