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Dell Censors Panel lottery info. Share info here.
- Thread starter Snowdog
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I finally got my 2007WFP that I ordered on 16 January 2007 in Denmark... and it's RT803, looks like S-IPS. Revision A03, made in Czech Republic. Everest shows that it was made on the 1st week of 2007
I made some 3gp videos of my monitor showing angle views and how black looks from a side:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
However there are some issues I am worried about.
1. Dark colors seem to be too black, I mean the range of dark colors seems to fall into one solid block of black color, so details are lost. This is seen most noticably while watching movies, and also with testing software. When looking at bars presenting all shades of grey (from white to black) at least 2 or 3 bars next to black also look black, while they should look a little lighter.
2. The screen itself makes an impression of having some kind of granularity on it, a kind of uneven surface like in sand paper. This is best seen on a white surface, like a window background. Kinda looks like a pattern of very small light-grey dots or short waves covering all the screen. I haven't seen this before on any other type of monitor, so I am thinking that maybe it's what makes the IPS screen having so wide angles.
I made some 3gp videos of my monitor showing angle views and how black looks from a side:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
However there are some issues I am worried about.
1. Dark colors seem to be too black, I mean the range of dark colors seems to fall into one solid block of black color, so details are lost. This is seen most noticably while watching movies, and also with testing software. When looking at bars presenting all shades of grey (from white to black) at least 2 or 3 bars next to black also look black, while they should look a little lighter.
2. The screen itself makes an impression of having some kind of granularity on it, a kind of uneven surface like in sand paper. This is best seen on a white surface, like a window background. Kinda looks like a pattern of very small light-grey dots or short waves covering all the screen. I haven't seen this before on any other type of monitor, so I am thinking that maybe it's what makes the IPS screen having so wide angles.
I have the exact same one.. A03 07 week 1
please check my post
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030550667&postcount=30
My is not flickering with this picture, I even tried to view it in full screen, but looks ok.
It is flickering on the far left side when I try a picture posted couple of pages earlier, but only when watched in absolute full screen:
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flickering4uj.gif
I am using D-Sub, not DVI. Maybe its the reason.
Can anyone post some advice what is the best all around configuration of 2007WFP parameters, using OSD and its options ?
It is flickering on the far left side when I try a picture posted couple of pages earlier, but only when watched in absolute full screen:
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flickering4uj.gif
I am using D-Sub, not DVI. Maybe its the reason.
Can anyone post some advice what is the best all around configuration of 2007WFP parameters, using OSD and its options ?
You are the one waiting for your monitor from the factory in Ireland reddeath, right?Since even you got an S-IPS panel, it seems that DELL switched to S-IPS for good, at least for now.
Great news
Ooops, now i've noticed this.Why from Czech Republic?
Great news
Ooops, now i've noticed this.Why from Czech Republic?
abcdelight
[H]ard|Gawd
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The "granularity" you see on white area is probably the flat finish anti-glare. To me it always looked like coating of dust on monitor. After using a gloss NEC I could never go back to that matte unless is was a laptop I would use outside.
The video of monitor looked ok to me. It looked like S-IPS with some purple at an angle. You should see the S-PVA if you think your monitor looks off.
You are the one waiting for your monitor from the factory in Ireland reddeath, right?Since even you got an S-IPS panel, it seems that DELL switched to S-IPS for good, at least for now.
Great news
Ooops, now i've noticed this?Why from Czech Republic?
I don't know why from Czech. I guess it's the terrible service of Dell Denmark, that first told me that there will be 2 week delay, because they don't have some part in the factory in Ireland. But later they sent me this monitor from Czech, and they did not even notice me that it would be delivered earlier after all.
The delivery company (Shenker) that works for Dell has also horrible quality of service - they were trying to deliver during the day, when normally people are at work. After calling them, and arguing about this, they told me that they can deliver in the afternoon, but this would take 2 weeks !! It looks like companies residing in Denmark don't give a sh*t about their customers at all.
I'm expecting my monitor from Ireland too, and i definitely DON'T want a monitor made in Czech Republic.
They didn't tell my anything about any shortages in their factory in Ireland, or any delay though.They just told me to expect it in approximately 10 days.
But NOT from Czech Republic, please
I'm expecting my monitor from Ireland too, and i definitely DON'T want a monitor made in Czech Republic.
They didn't tell my anything about any shortages in their factory in Ireland, or any delay though.They just told me to expect it in approximately 10 days.
But NOT from Czech Republic, please
Where do you live ? Is there something wrong with Czech monitors ?
About talking with Dell, I was impatient enough, that after receiving an email indicating that there will be so long delay, I called Dell and made inquiry about it. I also was trying to get info out of them about what type of panels are used in 2007WFP sold in Denmark, but of course my question was like "black magic" for them.
My LCD behaves similar to yours. Not sure why the left 1/3 left side of the panel experiences flicker on the same link but I am unable to reproduce it on any other screen. I think this is a good thing ? I have the same revision you have except mine was shipped from Ohio, USA. So possibly DELL has addressed some earlier concerns? Time will tell I guess.
? I have the same revision you have except mine was shipped from Ohio, USA. So possibly DELL has addressed some earlier concerns? Time will tell I guess.My LCD behaves similar to yours. Not sure why the left 1/3 left side of the panel experiences flicker on the same link but I am unable to reproduce it on any other screen. I think this is a good thing
Did you actually see this kind of image pattern on a website or in an application ? Maybe it is some kind of extreme example of pixel pattern that makes this particular panel flicker. For me this monitor is perfect, except for this noticable granularity of the screen coating(?).
Hehe, me too.Their salesmen are clueless about panels.The average guy on a forum knows a lot more about the different panels than they do.
The flickering seems to appear mostly, if not exclusively, on monitors made in Czech Republic.I'm afraid i'm gonna get one from CZ, too
I live in Greece, btw.
Well, perhaps we're being overly paranoid about this flickering issue
Hehe, actualy when I saw these granular things on my screen, the first thing I thought of was to grab my special cleaning cloth. Unfortunately this "strange" dust remained even after carefull cleaning.
Well, in that case, unless we're talking about major flickering, which clearly indicates a defective monitor, we should stop being overly paranoid about this.Arlo reported flickering only on the page posted a few pages back.But there have been 2007WFP owners i've asked who didn't report any flickering at all even on that page.
I believe that, unless you get a defective monitor with major flickering, everything is fine.
first off yet again it seems like since december everyone's shipping out IPS panels, and that's good, maybe all the complaints and dell/chris saying "we'll forward that on.....ok" finally worked, although i cant imagine why they dont now announce it if they fixed things for good.
as for the flickering, is it possible that the newer monitors made in january have fixed the flickering? from what i've read maybe it was just a bad batch back in december and/or earlier?
also, what is D-sub? is that analogue VGA? anyhow, i dont think that makes a difference, for the flicker, as i'm sure people with the problem tried DVI or otherwise..... i think.....
as for the flickering, is it possible that the newer monitors made in january have fixed the flickering? from what i've read maybe it was just a bad batch back in december and/or earlier?
also, what is D-sub? is that analogue VGA? anyhow, i dont think that makes a difference, for the flicker, as i'm sure people with the problem tried DVI or otherwise..... i think.....
Heh yes, the flicker has NOTHING to do with the input type. I've tried both and neither work to fix it, as far as I understand it has more to do with the hardware they put inside the monitor that works with the panel. Obviously S-IPS doesn't make the flicker, so it has to do with what's working with it to make a flickering. It's the only monitor that has it!
Some monitors apparently flicker more than others, even in A03, so it's really unsure by anyone what the deal is.
Some monitors apparently flicker more than others, even in A03, so it's really unsure by anyone what the deal is.
You`re absolutely right.
And someone said earlier "It flickers but its ok?" NOT
flickering is on 1/3 of the screen (leftside) If its feature of the panel, so why its only on left third?
Dell buys panels in big quantities and panel manufacturer ships them to all monitor-plants, thats why also other monitors flickers, not only Chech rebublic-ones.
Remember when you testing with big pattern I made - do it in 100% magnification (imagesize is 1680x1050) because when it scaled to some other resolution, effect is barely visible.
I repeat this once again (as there seems to people who are too lazy to read older pages from this thread)
I`ve tested same patterns on multiple models on Eizo-productline, also Viewsonic, Samsung, few other Dells (mostly 17" & 19") NO FLICKERING.
If someone on Dell reads this: please FIX IT, you are losing customers.
(and im going from 2007WFP to 2407WFP even if it hurts my wallet very badly)
Flickering is not only in the testimage - its on the panel. Its only clearly visible on that testpattern - but can be seen also in any other stuff that is displayed on screen.
But you`re right; 2007WFP is only option (with those requirements)
well if could just get some more information on it, the LG 24" l246 may be the answer to that (since it may also be comparatively affordable as well).
Can anyone elaborate on the available parameter settings in 2007WFP, like Pixel Clock, Phase and others ?
When I am using Auto adjust option while in Windows desktop, then Phase is being set to somewhere around 5. But when I open the strange flicker-causing pattern to full screen, and then use Auto adjust, the Phase is set to around 50.
What is the deal with that ? And what does this Phase actually do ?
At first glance, Phase at 50 causes text to be much more blurry.
Did anyone try to mess around with the service menu ? I only lookes at it, and there are some options like Soft Dithering, Burn in, etc. Do you think it might be helpfull to activate/deactive some of this options ?
When I am using Auto adjust option while in Windows desktop, then Phase is being set to somewhere around 5. But when I open the strange flicker-causing pattern to full screen, and then use Auto adjust, the Phase is set to around 50.
What is the deal with that ? And what does this Phase actually do ?
At first glance, Phase at 50 causes text to be much more blurry.
Did anyone try to mess around with the service menu ? I only lookes at it, and there are some options like Soft Dithering, Burn in, etc. Do you think it might be helpfull to activate/deactive some of this options ?
My opinion on the flickering issue is that if you can't notice it anywhere else than the test image, then yes it's fine Enjoy your new monitors guys, and don't become obsessed with this.You didn't buy this monitor to spend your time trying to reproduce flickering.
Just remember what happened when the 2007WFP had banding problems.People were going mad about it.I've only seen people complain about flickering only on here and DELL's forum.If you notice flickering and find it annoying, then things are pretty simple.Send it back
Enjoy your new monitors guys, and don't become obsessed with this.You didn't buy this monitor to spend your time trying to reproduce flickering.Just remember what happened when the 2007WFP had banding problems.People were going mad about it.I've only seen people complain about flickering only on here and DELL's forum.If you notice flickering and find it annoying, then things are pretty simple.Send it back
gregnauman
n00b
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I have a 2407wfp made in mexico just got it around the 10th of january.
My Display says V1B20 and HN208
Anyone know what panel this is and which panels they are shipping? Which is better or worse on the 2407wfp.
My Display says V1B20 and HN208
Anyone know what panel this is and which panels they are shipping? Which is better or worse on the 2407wfp.
I agree with aguire, if your monitor seems to be working fine other than that stupid flickering you may get on the posted grey test sight, then what does it matter? As I stated before, flickering is only reproduced when I visit that link and enlarge the pattern. If this is so, I hope that the rest of you have similar results and can therefore enjoy your new 2007WFPb panel.
Oh, I was on another website dealing with the same issue and someone mentioned that there is now a REV 04 of the 2007WFP panel. What's up with that?
As I stated before, flickering is only reproduced when I visit that link and enlarge the pattern. If this is so, I hope that the rest of you have similar results and can therefore enjoy your new 2007WFPb panel.Oh, I was on another website dealing with the same issue and someone mentioned that there is now a REV 04 of the 2007WFP panel. What's up with that?
Another revision for 2007WFP?There is a thread on here about REV04, but for the 2407.Could he mean that monitor?Oh, I was on another website dealing with the same issue and someone mentioned that there is now a REV 04 of the 2007WFP panel. What's up with that?
abcdelight
[H]ard|Gawd
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gregnauman
n00b
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Yes I have a 2407wfp and Yes it says what I posted so it must be in lotto land as well
I agree with aguire, if your monitor seems to be working fine other than that stupid flickering you may get on the posted grey test sight, then what does it matter?
I repeat: flickering on defect monitors exists allways, not only when you have that testpattern open.
And why did you enlarge the pattern? It is supposed to look at 100%
Flickering is clear evidence of faulty panel; rev A02 and older does not have it.
Oh, I was on another website dealing with the same issue and someone mentioned that there is now a REV 04 of the 2007WFP panel. What's up with that?
You are talking totally different thing here; AO3 is latest revision, Most of them are dec/06 and jan/07 batch.
Latest revision of 2407WFP is A04 and that is totally different product
I recommend reading more than just latest page on this thread; it might give more information
Flickering has occurred on every version of the 2007wfp, from A00 to A03, and apparently appears worse in some monitors in others. Nobody's sure exactly what the deal is or why some are worse than others or even if all have it, but it's not something they've directly addressed and is safe to assume there's a good chance it will flicker on some shades of gray. Whether or not it's enough to bother you or not is a different beast altogether.
Tamlin_WSGF
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Came across an old article I read some years ago when replying to another thread, which adresses the panel differences. Since a major part of the debate here is about the panel differences and viewing angles especially, I found it valid to post it here as well. I have a feeling that many don't know what the fuzz is about and don't have a grasp of what is really being talked about. Some, like JDAdams, thinks its about the extreme angles and not a problem since he prefers to sit directly infront of the screen anyway. Since the problem occurs when you sit directly infront of the screen, his response is based upon a misunderstanding.
Also, there are many who tries to deny that shades are lost at center view. Many have tried to illustrate/prove the loss of shades with images, but it has seemed to be like "water on the goose".The loss of shades is a part of the panel characteristics and below you'll see that its old news though its a characteristics that pagues the VA panels still, since the crystal alligment haven't changed, only the number of domains. I hope the moderators doesn't take this as a bad cross-posting and find it valid to have in this thread.
I can understand you find it odd if you think the problem lies in the extreme viewing angles. The S-PVA complained about in the 2007WFP panel lottery have problems with center view or "directly in front" as you say. From center view (0 degrees) to a 5 degrees angle off center there are issues with loss of detail (at center compared to 5 degree) and color wash (at 5 degrees compared to center). Its probably caused by the boomerang shaped crystal alligment of the S-PVA creating a "dead angle" at center.
Here is an image of a S-PVA pixel being lit:
Edit: The old article below also adresses the viewing angle issues with the old VA panels as well (PVA and MVA). Center view angles that is:
Though they changed the domain structure from 4 to 8 on the S-PVA panels to increase the viewing angle at extreme angles, the loss of shades still apply due to the unchanged crystal positioning.
Also, there are many who tries to deny that shades are lost at center view. Many have tried to illustrate/prove the loss of shades with images, but it has seemed to be like "water on the goose".The loss of shades is a part of the panel characteristics and below you'll see that its old news though its a characteristics that pagues the VA panels still, since the crystal alligment haven't changed, only the number of domains. I hope the moderators doesn't take this as a bad cross-posting and find it valid to have in this thread.
I can understand you find it odd if you think the problem lies in the extreme viewing angles. The S-PVA complained about in the 2007WFP panel lottery have problems with center view or "directly in front" as you say. From center view (0 degrees) to a 5 degrees angle off center there are issues with loss of detail (at center compared to 5 degree) and color wash (at 5 degrees compared to center). Its probably caused by the boomerang shaped crystal alligment of the S-PVA creating a "dead angle" at center.
Here is an image of a S-PVA pixel being lit:
Edit: The old article below also adresses the viewing angle issues with the old VA panels as well (PVA and MVA). Center view angles that is:
link
Though they changed the domain structure from 4 to 8 on the S-PVA panels to increase the viewing angle at extreme angles, the loss of shades still apply due to the unchanged crystal positioning.
I agree. I started this thread after getting first shafted by silly manufacturer claims and then the Dell Panel lotto.
I bought a Dell 2405 before I new that 178 degree viewing angles on PVA meant that even perfectly centered there would be all kinds of Visual anomalies. Next I bought a Dell 2007fp way back (A00) when they were still S-IPS, well I ordered it before it was known that they silently switched to PVA. Damn panel lotto.
Both of these panels had near identical anomalies. I wouldn't care that much about the loss of shadow detail if it were uniform, for me, my impression is that these screens wash out to the sides. Worse yet they change at the most minute angles. Small enough that each eye gets a different image.
To my eyes this was interpreted as glare and a false 3d edge. It greatly increased fatigue/eyestrain/headaches as well as being distracting and just not looking right. I will never knowingly buy another VA panel.
What some may find odd is that I now use a much maligned TN panel without issue. I can easily see the vertical tone shift, but since I don't have stereo vision that is vertically oriented, it doesn't bother me. Though if I flip the TN into portrait mode I find it unusable as well. Even though the extreme angle horizontal numbers (meaningless) quoted for TN is less than VA, TN in reality is much more stable horizontally when you are centered than VA.
Thus my preference is S-IPS for stability in both directions, TN next for at least having stability horizontally. Lastly VA I avoid because the anomalies from the basic viewing angle instability.
I will note as I often do, that while the effect is universal, sensitivity to it is not. Some people never notice, some notice but aren't bothered that much (like me with TN) and it is pretty much unusable for a minority like me.
It has never been about extreme angle viewing, though turning the panel at an angle is the easiest way to detect the anomaly in a picture, it is about the terrible viewing angle stability of VA even when centered.
Yes, all the monitors shipped from December until today have been IPS.Noone reported a PVA panel, yet.
I believe IPS panels offer better viewing angles, so you'll be able to understand if it's an IPS or PVA.You could bring up the menu using the method posted on this thread and looking at the panel code.You can find info about whether the panel code indicates an IPS or PVA panel here as well.
Tamlin_WSGF
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I haven't tested it yet on a PVA screen, but I believe that this image should reveal panel type. Run it fullscreen and check if details appear and disappear when changing viewing angle from center to 5 degrees off center:
http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/details.php?id=521
Edit:
If details appear and disappear, its S-PVA, if not, its S-IPS