Dell 2709W

abyte2it

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The Norwegian Dell site wants 8591NOK for the 2709W. That's 1338 US dollars! What's up with that?
 

abyte2it

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My current Dell 2001FP is spec'ed with 16ms response time. The 2709W is spec'ed with 6ms. Does this tell me anything about the difference in input lag?

I play FPS games every once in a while and haven't been bothered by any input lag on the 2001FP. Should I worry about the lag on the 2709W then?
 

Zorachus

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Nop; sorry. No can do.

Dave


Thank God I never bought those. I am running Eyefinity in Portrait mode and was maybe thinking of going the 27" Dell 2709W, get them cheap on Craigslist, but now, no way. So there is no 27" 1920x1200res panel that can do Portrait ?
 

daveswantek

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Thank God I never bought those. I am running Eyefinity in Portrait mode and was maybe thinking of going the 27" Dell 2709W, get them cheap on Craigslist, but now, no way. So there is no 27" 1920x1200res panel that can do Portrait ?

The only other true 27 inch is the Samsung 275TPlus and it will not rotate either.

Dave
 

10e

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Thank God I never bought those. I am running Eyefinity in Portrait mode and was maybe thinking of going the 27" Dell 2709W, get them cheap on Craigslist, but now, no way. So there is no 27" 1920x1200res panel that can do Portrait ?

A nice monitor arm can fix that. These things are light enough that they will work with most arms quite well.

www.monoprice.com is your friend. And the best part, is that you can re-use it later for other displays.
 

daveswantek

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I read a lot about both before buying the Dell. The Dell has a better stand, a card reader and more inputs, the 275T Plus is said to be calibrated more accurately at the factory.

I went with the Dell and the iOne Display 2. If you are buying two you will probubly want the calabrator anyway.

If you are planning on intense gaming you need to consider the fact that these are S-PVA screens, which means they are not the best when it comes to input lag, (which is more correctly described as output lag).

I personally am very pleased with my 2709W

Dave
 

scanido

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After doing a little research, apparently this monitor is now out with revision A04. It may be possible that this notorious input lag has been reduced to an acceptable level.

Does anyone have this revision and can perform the input lag test?
 

daveswantek

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Dude; this is a s-pva panel. There aint no fixen the lag; if your concerned about that then look at the 27 inch HP TN.

Dave
 

scanido

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Dude; this is a s-pva panel. There aint no fixen the lag; if your concerned about that then look at the 27 inch HP TN.

Dave


Understood and I never suggested that the lag would be eliminated but reduced. I totally understand that this anomaly is inherent in this technology. There may be a chance that Dell has made this version less susceptible to it. We've already seen this from the A01 revision, and in the A02 revision it has unfortunately gone back. It would be interesting to see if there is a postive difference with A04.
 

Rudel

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I've had my 2709W for a few days now. On sale for $699 in Canada. Mine is Rev04. I'm coming from a Dell 3007WFP, it was getting tough for me to read @ 2560x1600 and tougher to keep up with gaming at said resolution. That being said my impressions are that the 2709W feels sluggish compared to the 3007. Right now I'm playing Dragon's Age, Company of Heroes & Modern Warfare 1&2. I actually prefer the 2709 for Dragon's Age as I can now read all the little things on the screen. The other games feel more sluggish. The thing that bothers me most is how sluggish and imprecise the mouse feels on my desktop. I've tried everything but to no avail. I definitely like the monitor except for the lag...

My 2 cents.
 

scanido

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I've had my 2709W for a few days now. On sale for $699 in Canada. Mine is Rev04. I'm coming from a Dell 3007WFP, it was getting tough for me to read @ 2560x1600 and tougher to keep up with gaming at said resolution. That being said my impressions are that the 2709W feels sluggish compared to the 3007. Right now I'm playing Dragon's Age, Company of Heroes & Modern Warfare 1&2. I actually prefer the 2709 for Dragon's Age as I can now read all the little things on the screen. The other games feel more sluggish. The thing that bothers me most is how sluggish and imprecise the mouse feels on my desktop. I've tried everything but to no avail. I definitely like the monitor except for the lag...

My 2 cents.

Just got my 2709w as well and your thoughts mirror mine on the lag.

This monitor could have been perfect if were not the lag. The colors, black levels, and font size to me are perfect. I'm playing Unreal Tournament 2004 and it does not feel that bad in this game, but only when in the desktop where the "Sluggishness" is really noticeable.

I also have a 3007wfp for comparison, and the font on it needs some getting used to. I tried raising the text size to 125% but web pages cannot render the setting properly.
 

katy123

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Can someone tell me if this monitor would like fine using just the vga connection. I'm using an old dell 700m laptop (integrated Intel graphics card) so that's the only output I have.

Would it give problems or slowdown? thanks.
 

katy123

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Thanks for the reply.

I've seen several references in this thread to 10e's icc profile, which is very good, but it says there are no more download slots left.

Can someone please reupload it? If not, I could give my email address via PM and could someone please email it to me?

Many thanks.
 
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scanido

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I just tried my 2709w rev A04 on VGA and the Input lag is MUCH less apparent.

I can quickly compare this to the one of the DVI connections when switching via the KVM and the difference is definitely perceivable. It would seem like the circuitry in the digital domain causes more of the lag.

After having my 2709w for several days, the lag does grow on you. When i switch to a 3007wfp I could easily notice the difference. I really like the 2709w though as the PVA screen is noticeably superior to me compared to the S-IPS on the 3007wfp. I do not notice any color shifting and the blacks, uniformity, and contrast are much better on 2709w. It's too bad that this could be a perfect monitor if it weren't for the lag.

Is the 275T+ better in the lag department?
 

Rudel

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The lag is officially causing me to send mine back to Dell.. On another note the 2709W went on sale today only $599.00 CDN.

http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/top...s_of_deals?c=ca&cs=cadhst1&l=en&s=dhs&ref=hbn

Cheers,

Oh and I think the 275T is about the same in the lag department....



I just tried my 2709w rev A04 on VGA and the Input lag is MUCH less apparent.

I can quickly compare this to the one of the DVI connections when switching via the KVM and the difference is definitely perceivable. It would seem like the circuitry in the digital domain causes more of the lag.

After having my 2709w for several days, the lag does grow on you. When i switch to a 3007wfp I could easily notice the difference. I really like the 2709w though as the PVA screen is noticeably superior to me compared to the S-IPS on the 3007wfp. I do not notice any color shifting and the blacks, uniformity, and contrast are much better on 2709w. It's too bad that this could be a perfect monitor if it weren't for the lag.

Is the 275T+ better in the lag department?
 

scanido

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That's too bad, I was going to buy this monitor until I read the problems you guys are having.:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

I wouldn't base my decision on what everyone in this forum says about input lag. It's completely subjective, I have never had a problem with input lag on my 2709 (the original version), I don't even notice it, but some people can't stand it. The only way to know for sure is to try it yourself.
 

10e

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Thanks for the reply.

I've seen several references in this thread to 10e's icc profile, which is very good, but it says there are no more download slots left.

Can someone please reupload it? If not, I could give my email address via PM and could someone please email it to me?

Many thanks.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FFU7TF56

The settings I used for it are:

5 Brightness (you can adjust this to your liking)
50 Contrast
Custom RGB
91 Red,
90 Green
89 Blue

I don't think megaupload has the limited download issues of RapidShare, so hopefully it's up there for some time.

Here's a link for a "how-to-install" from DigitalVersus.com

http://www.digitalversus.com/article-424.html
 

daveswantek

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I wouldn't base my decision on what everyone in this forum says about input lag. It's completely subjective, I have never had a problem with input lag on my 2709 (the original version), I don't even notice it, but some people can't stand it. The only way to know for sure is to try it yourself.

+1; I agree. I have had my 2709W for over a year now and I still love it. My only complaint is that it is wide gamut. I have a 2209WA as well and I prefer the 2709W. I do not notice any difference in output lag. The only display that I have that is noticable faster is my Sony GDM-F520 CRT.

The bottom line is that if output lag is such a big issue, then get a CRT preferable a Sony GDM-W900 or equivalent.

I am glad I did not listen to what some people were saying on this forum, because for my the Dell 2709W is as good as it gets.

Dave
 

daveswantek

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Been watching this thread and I'm intrigued by this monitor...now my question:
I have a Gateway FPC2185W which is, according to the panel index thread, an S-PVA monitor. I calibrate it using Spyder2. I do not game on my PC. I only photo (Photoshop) and video edit (HD material). Would this Dell be a noticeable upgrade to my current monitor? Am I going to notice a big difference in color accuracy?

I cant comment on your current display, because I have never seen one, but what I can tell you is that if your current display is 2 or more years old than yes it would be a noticable upgrade. The reason why is that S-PVA pannels have improved a lot in the past two years. I had a Dell 2407WFP before my 2709W and it was not nearly as good. It had black crush and gamma shift, where the 2709W has no black crush and much less gamma shift. I think that my 2209WA has better color reproduction, it looks closer to my CRT, but the white glow is as bad or worse then gamma shift in my opinion.

If you are not into gamming, I would say give this display a shot. Dell has a liberal return policy, so you do not have much to loose.

Dave
 
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hello, does anybody knows if it's possible use a dual-dvi connector or a display port on this 2709w to get 10-bit colors quality?Does the 2709w supports 10-bit? I'm not so sure about it cause the panel is packaged with a single dvi cable. thanks
 

10e

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hello, does anybody knows if it's possible use a dual-dvi connector or a display port on this 2709w to get 10-bit colors quality?Does the 2709w supports 10-bit? I'm not so sure about it cause the panel is packaged with a single dvi cable. thanks

DVI standard is limited to 8 bits per pixel, while DP supports 10-bit (from what I know), but the panel is 8-bit per pixel and uses a form of dithering to simulate a greater bit range. The screen does support 10-bits per pixel through display port.

The dithering is excellent and does not induce any graininess or "pulsing" in the screen. It is nearly impossible to see unless you know exactly what to look for. I had used my 2709W with Display port and could not see a difference between that and DVI. A dual-link DVI will not make any difference with this display vs. single-link. It does not support any higher bit levels either, just higher bandwidth. The cable that comes with it (single-link) works just fine (as does the DP cable).
 

ontariotl

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I have 3 of them to use with Eyefinity on my Radeon HD5970. Haven't had any issues with lag on revision A04. It's a beautiful picture compared to my 3 LG 23" TN panels.

As for the 10 bit per pixel on DP, and 8 bit on DVI, I use both at the same time and I really dont see any differences between the two.
 
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DVI standard is limited to 8 bits per pixel, while DP supports 10-bit (from what I know), but the panel is 8-bit per pixel and uses a form of dithering to simulate a greater bit range. The screen does support 10-bits per pixel through display port.

The dithering is excellent and does not induce any graininess or "pulsing" in the screen. It is nearly impossible to see unless you know exactly what to look for. I had used my 2709W with Display port and could not see a difference between that and DVI. A dual-link DVI will not make any difference with this display vs. single-link. It does not support any higher bit levels either, just higher bandwidth. The cable that comes with it (single-link) works just fine (as does the DP cable).

So using a DP on 2709w it works 10-bits per pixel
using dvi-single it works 8-bit simulating a greater range with dithering, but no visible differences from DP and DVI single.

I asked it cause i have an HD4870 and the displayport cable, so i think to use them but the dvi-DP adaper provided with the sapphire 4870 is a single dvi type and i'm afraid I'm going to lost information using it to Dp. Is it necessary use a dual dvi-DP adapter to gain the best performance?
 

10e

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So using a DP on 2709w it works 10-bits per pixel
using dvi-single it works 8-bit simulating a greater range with dithering, but no visible differences from DP and DVI single.

I asked it cause i have an HD4870 and the displayport cable, so i think to use them but the dvi-DP adaper provided with the sapphire 4870 is a single dvi type and i'm afraid I'm going to lost information using it to Dp. Is it necessary use a dual dvi-DP adapter to gain the best performance?

The dithering is always there but very difficult to see. That's why they advertise it as having 10 bit (1.04 billion) colors. Medical-grade monitors have true 10 bit to simulate extra gray colors for MRI and other medical imaging, but consumer panels are all 8-bits or less.

Displayport would likely be your best choice. You lose nothing over DVI but gain an actual 10-bit "pathway" to the screen. As far as I remember, only ATI actually supports 10-bit color through displayport as of current adapters.
 

10e

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I have 3 of them to use with Eyefinity on my Radeon HD5970. Haven't had any issues with lag on revision A04. It's a beautiful picture compared to my 3 LG 23" TN panels.

As for the 10 bit per pixel on DP, and 8 bit on DVI, I use both at the same time and I really dont see any differences between the two.

You probably won't see a difference. An app has to actually support 10-bit color natively to even potentially show any difference, and even then it would probably only show up in gray scales or some other "cherry pick" test. 8-bit is 256 gray scales, 10 bit has 1024.

I would love to see how much less lag the A04 has. 3x27" must be a lot of real estate for EyeFinity. Very nice.
 

katy123

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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FFU7TF56

The settings I used for it are:

5 Brightness (you can adjust this to your liking)
50 Contrast
Custom RGB
91 Red,
90 Green
89 Blue

I don't think megaupload has the limited download issues of RapidShare, so hopefully it's up there for some time.

Here's a link for a "how-to-install" from DigitalVersus.com

http://www.digitalversus.com/article-424.html


Many thanks!! That profile worked great for me. One problem I have that I hope someone can answer:
My lightest shades of grey appear pink. Does anyone know which setting would fix this or determines this characteristic? For example, on the Lagom White saturation test, the bottom row of boxes has pink squares (top 2 rows are fine).

This is by far the best calibration I've been able to get, so I would really like to just fix this setting rather than start from scratch again.
Thanks for any suggestions.

edit: 1 more question :)
My gamma is showing at 1.8. Is there a way (or program) I can use to adjust the gamma of an icc profile? I'm using a basic integrated Intel graphics card which doesn't have any settings adjustments, so it needs to be done through programs or the monitor directly. Thanks!
 
Last edited:

scanido

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I noticed the monitor came with a display port cable, so out of curiousity I connected this to my XFX 5870 and low and behold the input lag was decreased to the same level as the VGA input!!! :eek:

The difference is there and it is noticeable, at least for me. It is better than the DVI connection i previously had. So much so I am considering keeping this monitor.

Any one else care to try connecting your 2709w to a display port and report if you notice any difference.
 
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I put manually these settings

5 Brightness (you can adjust this to your liking)
50 Contrast
Custom RGB
91 Red,
90 Green
89 Blue

posted by 10e, than I try to change also the profile installed by windows 7 ("Dell color profile D6500") with the one linked by 10e but I can't see any difference between profile like d6500 by dell or the profile by 10e. It changes only by putting manaul setting, does win7 can't load setting in .icc?
 

scanido

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posted by 10e, than I try to change also the profile installed by windows 7 ("Dell color profile D6500") with the one linked by 10e but I can't see any difference between profile like d6500 by dell or the profile by 10e. It changes only by putting manaul setting, does win7 can't load setting in .icc?

I followed those settings as well and i too have not noticed a difference when using a different .icc profile from the default installed.

Anyone care to share what exactly these profiles do?
 

10e

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I followed those settings as well and i too have not noticed a difference when using a different .icc profile from the default installed.

Anyone care to share what exactly these profiles do?

You may not instantly. The profile will load on startup and adjust the colors accordingly in XP, Vista or Windows 7 as long as it is the selected profile in the Windows color management control panel applet (Windows 7 and Vista). You can download this for XP as well.

If you want to be able to load profiles on the fly, there is an old program that will do it, that I still use, and works under Vista/Windows 7 x86 and x64, as well as XP. Just unzip it into a directory, or even to the desktop and use it to manually select the profile. If you choose a profile that does not have adjustments built in to it such as the profile that is installed from the Dell drivers, it will give an error, but it will continue to work if you select a profile with actual color adjustments in it.

http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=757&Action=support&SoftwareID=539

Katy123: If the profile doesn't seem to give you optimum colors there may be a reason for that. Usually it's that your panel somehow differs strongly from mine enough, at those settings, to cause color discrepancy.
 
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