Dell 2407WFP Rev A04 Spotted.

Velocities said:
It is me or 1:1 Pixel Mapping is very buggy? Every time I try the 1:1 on Game, a lot of input lag. A lot of tearing and streaking. Don't believe me? Try setting lower resolution, switch to 1:1 and drag your Internet Browser slowly up and down. You see a streak going through. I try WoW and Final Fantasy XI, and I feel the A04 have more input lag and streaking. What's the point of 1:1 anymore. :(
Click to expand...


I don't think FF XI and WoW are good for testing since the games itself heavily depends on network latency (CPU and video card in some case). I play FF XI too and with over 150 people camping Nidhogg, there is TONS of lag ;)

Anyway, I played Warcraft 3 with 16*12 and 1248*1024, both with 1:1 and I don't feel the lag. I also tested with PS2 as main input ( Okami in 480i and Gundam VS Z-Gundam in 480p), in 1:1 and Fill mode, and I don't feel any input lag either.... I guess "input lag" is very subjective and maybe I am less sensitive to it. :rolleyes:
 
robber98 said:
I don't think FF XI and WoW are good for testing since the games itself heavily depends on network latency (CPU and video card in some case). I play FF XI too and with over 150 people camping Nidhogg, there is TONS of lag ;)

Anyway, I played Warcraft 3 with 16*12 and 1248*1024, both with 1:1 and I don't feel the lag. I also tested with PS2 as main input ( Okami in 480i and Gundam VS Z-Gundam in 480p), in 1:1 and Fill mode, and I don't feel any input lag either.... I guess "input lag" is very subjective and maybe I am less sensitive to it. :rolleyes:
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Well, I guess I shouldn't be saying input lag because it alway certein in Game with LCD, and it don't bother me. What I mean is tearing and streaking in 3D Game is worse with 1:1 Mode. It still noticable without the 1:1 mode, just more worse with the 1:1 mode. I notice this when I play WoW and Final Fantasy XI. And did you try 1:1 mode with movies? Same thing, image tearing. I'm not saying the 2407WFP A04 is at fault, but I want to make sure mine isn't a defect.
 
Velocities said:
Well, I guess I shouldn't be saying input lag because it alway certein in Game with LCD, and it don't bother me. What I mean is tearing and streaking in 3D Game is worse with 1:1 Mode. It still noticable without the 1:1 mode, just more worse with the 1:1 mode. I notice this when I play WoW and Final Fantasy XI. And did you try 1:1 mode with movies? Same thing, image tearing. I'm not saying the 2407WFP A04 is at fault, but I want to make sure mine isn't a defect.
Click to expand...

Maybe it has to do with your fps exceeding 60? If your computer is rendering frames a lot more than your refresh rate (60hz for LCDs) than of course you are going to see tearing. It is apparent in 1:1 mode because you are lowering your resolution which essentially increases your FPS.

Try turning on vsync and see if that works. If you experience the 1/2 fps drop after turning on vsync then turn on triple buffer (although a side affect you might experience of turning triple buffer is input lag).
 
Velocities said:
Well, I guess I shouldn't be saying input lag because it alway certein in Game with LCD, and it don't bother me. What I mean is tearing and streaking in 3D Game is worse with 1:1 Mode. It still noticable without the 1:1 mode, just more worse with the 1:1 mode. I notice this when I play WoW and Final Fantasy XI. And did you try 1:1 mode with movies? Same thing, image tearing. I'm not saying the 2407WFP A04 is at fault, but I want to make sure mine isn't a defect.
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When you say "tearing", do you mean this?

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3938/3327ze.jpg
 
robber98 said:
When you say "tearing", do you mean this?

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3938/3327ze.jpg
Click to expand...

Is that what that's called? My PC and A04 do that all the time, and I can't figure out how to make it stop. I've tried all of nvidia's scaling methods (1:1, monitor scaling, nvidia scaling, etc), turning it on/off, etc and nothing has worked. When I plug my PS3 into it and that happens, all I have to do is turn it off, but for the PC it doesn't go away.
 
jcazes said:
Is that what that's called? My PC and A04 do that all the time, and I can't figure out how to make it stop. I've tried all of nvidia's scaling methods (1:1, monitor scaling, nvidia scaling, etc), turning it on/off, etc and nothing has worked. When I plug my PS3 into it and that happens, all I have to do is turn it off, but for the PC it doesn't go away.
Click to expand...


Yeah mine is like that. However, it only very noticeable in 1:1 Mode. In 3d it look really bad if I move around quickly, lots of tearing. Not too bad with the normal mode, but it's still there. I see it in movie too. I'm using ATI 1900 XTX 512MB so I know it's not my Graphic Card that can't handle it. Can people who own the Dell 2407WFP Rev 04 tell me if they have this problem or not? I don't see a lot of people mentioning this problem though. I heard a work around for this, but I have not try it yet. I have only own this monitor for 3 days, so I'm going to do some more intensive testing through watching movies, and gaming with both mode, the 1:1 and the normal mode. I hope it not too much of a big problem that I have to return the display.
 
Velocities: I saw tearing in FF XI even in "windows" mode w/ Windower (Don't tell GM, ok? :p ), so I don't think the problem is caused by 1:1.

Believe it or not, I see "tearing" problem on 2007FP too (correct me if I am wrong, I think it's using S-IPS panel).
 
robber98 said:
Velocities: I saw tearing in FF XI even in "windows" mode w/ Windower (Don't tell GM, ok? :p ), so I don't think the problem is caused by 1:1.

Believe it or not, I see "tearing" problem on 2007FP too (correct me if I am wrong, I think it's using S-IPS panel).
Click to expand...

Robber, are you sure your 2007FP is an S-IPS panel? Because some 2007FP use PVA and some use S-IPS. It be interesting if your is 2007FP S-IPS Panel and have tearing too. I just check out some YouTube video and notice some tearing in video too in normal mode :(. No way to tell though, could just be the video itself since it such low quality. I'm going to try DVD movie such as Lord Of The Ring and Ice Age 2 to test it out accurately.
 
I am not sure if 2007FP has S-IPS panel but when the screen in black and I look at the screen from the side, I see pink and purple.
 
I just try some DVD movie and don't notice the tearing anymore. As for the 1:1 result in more tearing, very visible in game. Turning the monitor on and off magically make it disappeared. Well, not totally disappear. But just due to LCD low refresh rate, it alway going to be there. It just make the splitting where tearing in half gone. Definitely a bug when Dell releasing the A04. *SIGH* :eek:
 
How does this monitor handle gaming? Any ghosting? Is the response time fast enough.

I have a Samsung 226BW and I'm a bit disappointed with the vertical viewing angle -colors are a washed out at the bottom of the screen, otherwise it's an awesome monitor.

Do you see this on the 2407?
 
Velocities said:
I just try some DVD movie and don't notice the tearing anymore. As for the 1:1 result in more tearing, very visible in game.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a way to somehow limit the framerate to the same as the refresh rate? I would think that if the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate you'll see problems no matter what.
 
IHL said:
How does this monitor handle gaming? Any ghosting? Is the response time fast enough.

I have a Samsung 226BW and I'm a bit disappointed with the vertical viewing angle -colors are a washed out at the bottom of the screen, otherwise it's an awesome monitor.

Do you see this on the 2407?
Click to expand...


This monitor handle game very well. I don't notice any ghosting, just a bit of tearing in graphic . Probably due to the low refresh rate. Turning triple buffering seam to help a little. Viewing angle on this monitor is quite good, yes it still a bit wash out when viewing from an angle. but I'm only comparing this to an IPS panel. Looking at it straight I don't see the color shift. I think this one will be better then your samsung 226BW.
 
Can someone please post about performance with XBox 360? I do about 65% XBox 360 gaming (PC gaming a little dry at the moment) and for some reason, there're hardly any reports for console gaming (specially 360) on the Rev 4. If graphics/ghosting/tearing,etc are pretty bad, I might just save up for the upcoming Sharp 1080p Aquos at $1500. I did have a 37" Westy but felt it was too big for everyday use from a feet away:eek:

So far, the 24" BenQ appears to be gettting good reviews as far as console/360 gaming is concerned but just wondering if the Rev04 is comparable at all.

Appreciated
Frag
 
I have an A02, and gaming with a 360 via the component inputs is NOT acceptable, but that's why I bought the Microsoft VGA cable.

This is definitely the way to go! Since they seemed to have fixed the pixel mapping/ratio problems with the A04, you should be able to scale the 1920x1080 image to 16:9 now, unlike on my monitor where if you choose 1920x1080 from the 360, you just get it stretched to 16:10 with the "1:1" option greyed out. Also, you have to lower the sharpness to 30 to get rid of horizontal lines that show up when you select 1920x1080.

The 360 is great VIA VGA CABLE. Just stay out of 1920x1080 and you'll be fine. Since nothing on the 360 is programmed for 1920x1080, you should just leave it in 1280x720 and everything will be alright.
 
jcazes said:
Is that what that's called? My PC and A04 do that all the time, and I can't figure out how to make it stop. I've tried all of nvidia's scaling methods (1:1, monitor scaling, nvidia scaling, etc), turning it on/off, etc and nothing has worked. When I plug my PS3 into it and that happens, all I have to do is turn it off, but for the PC it doesn't go away.
Click to expand...

I just dont get this, that pic if from a PS3, the PS3 is *known* to do that, the PC should not be doing that. I have been trying to get to the bottom of this. I have posted over at the OcUK forums with links to HD movie clips (which I will post here) and not ONE owner of the A04 has moaned of any clipping or tearing with the PC DVI.

Try these:
http://www.digital-digest.com/movies/pirates_of_the_caribbean2_h264_1080p_trailer.html (1080p H.264)

http://www.digital-digest.com/movies/pirates_of_the_caribbean2_xvid_trailer.html (HD xvid)

http://www.digital-digest.com/movies/silent_hill.html (HD xvid)

http://www.digital-digest.com/movies/x-men_last_stand.html (HD divx)

(fixed links)

That should cover all bases Any other 2704WFP owners want to join the big HD test? Some are not pukka HD resolutions but the test should be good enough to see how the 2407WFP copes.

Do they tear on yours jcazes?

I am so close to buying this monitor but I can't be buying it if it screws up all full screen movies High Resolution movies.

Velocities said:
Yeah mine is like that. However, it only very noticeable in 1:1 Mode. In 3d it look really bad if I move around quickly, lots of tearing. Not too bad with the normal mode, but it's still there. I see it in movie too. I'm using ATI 1900 XTX 512MB so I know it's not my Graphic Card that can't handle it. Can people who own the Dell 2407WFP Rev 04 tell me if they have this problem or not? I don't see a lot of people mentioning this problem though. I heard a work around for this, but I have not try it yet. I have only own this monitor for 3 days, so I'm going to do some more intensive testing through watching movies, and gaming with both mode, the 1:1 and the normal mode. I hope it not too much of a big problem that I have to return the display.
Click to expand...


I too would be using a ATI X1900XT graphics card and would be seriously gutted if I bought a 2407WFP and found movies and full screen video to play back with awful tearing. What resolution are you using? Native? Because I am not sure why you need you PC set to 1:1 in native anyway, it should just fill the screen perfectly. I am really suprised not more 2407WFP owners are not moaning about video playback if its so bad.

Meatwad650 said:
Isn't there a way to somehow limit the framerate to the same as the refresh rate? I would think that if the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate you'll see problems no matter what.
Click to expand...

Ahhh you could be on to something here, jcazes and velocites, do you both have Vsync disabled in CCC or ATI Control Panel? That could be why not many people are moaning. Make sure Vsync is enabled for the movie playback.

Thanks,

Mike
 
Stormyuk,

I alway use native resolution. It's just some game don't currently support 1920 x 1200, so this is when the 1:1 come in handy. Also with 1:1, I get more detail and I can turn up gamma making game look very sharp. As for HD movies, none of those link working except Silent Hill. I try Silent Hill with the normal native res, and the only tear I can make out is in the beginning where the lady talk to the little girl, then the car crash scene. However, after I switch to 1:1 mode, tearing become very noticeable and almost in every single scene. I try turning the monitor off, then on again and it actually go away. Interested why I see a bit of tearing in Silent Hill in a couple of scene, I go to Apple website and try some more HD Movies. I watch Brother Grim, Batman Return at 720P, then IMAX 3D Sea at 1080P and I don't notice any tearing in any of this movies. It look really good and clear.

I was going to try turning on VSync, but it not an option in ATI Catalyst Driver. I think VSync is only an option in some game. I'm overall satisfied with this monitor except for the damn 1:1 bug, and tearing in 3D MMORPG. I wish I have another LCD such as IPS Panel or the BenQ to try Final Fantasy XI and WoW to see how it handle it. I'm just kind bum about this monitor, especially when there is fews owner of this monitor claiming more ghosting and tearing in A04.
 
StormyUK,

The tearing only appear when I set to lower resolution to access the 1:1 mode. Turning monitor off and on make it go away. Everything look good and crystal clear without any tearing in native res. There may not even be tearing in Silent Hill now that I watch it over and over again, it's just the movie itself where the car scene move too fast that it deceived my eyes. Also I try Pirate Of The Caribbean and it look really good, crystal clear and no tearing at all. As for the tearing in game, I'm use to it by now. It isn't as bad as I sound it to be. I know LCD aren't CRT so I have get to use to it soon. Online game may not be a very best way to test this at all. I play Final Fantasy XI on this and since it an online game, it could due to server side, latency lag, etc, etc. I may have to try Quake and Unreal Tournament to test it out correctly.
 
Velocities said:
StormyUK,

The tearing only appear when I set to lower resolution to access the 1:1 mode. Turning monitor off and on make it go away. Everything look good and crystal clear without any tearing in native res. There may not even be tearing in Silent Hill now that I watch it over and over again, it's just the movie itself where the car scene move too fast that it deceived my eyes. Also I try Pirate Of The Caribbean and it look really good, crystal clear and no tearing at all. As for the tearing in game, I'm use to it by now. It isn't as bad as I sound it to be. I know LCD aren't CRT so I have get to use to it soon. Online game may not be a very best way to test this at all. I play Final Fantasy XI on this and since it an online game, it could due to server side, latency lag, etc, etc. I may have to try Quake and Unreal Tournament to test it out correctly.
Click to expand...

Quake and Unreal are excellent for testing. Please let me know the result! :D
 
got my A04 today and I must say, it's absolutely gorgeous. No dead or stuck pixels, no banding, the color is decent (but could stand a good calibration). I have it set up at work where it was delivered so i haven't been able to do anything other than photoshop with it but i've got to say, it makes my two 20" wides look pretty puny. More to come after I get home and get it hooked up to a decent machine.
 
stormyuk said:
Ahhh you could be on to something here, jcazes and velocites, do you both have Vsync disabled in CCC or ATI Control Panel? That could be why not many people are moaning. Make sure Vsync is enabled for the movie playback.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know if vsync is forced by default on a Mac? This could explain why I haven't seen any of this tearing.
 
Got mine today as well.....Rev04 made in Mexico......still trying to set it up but compared to my 19" CRT, this looks like a monster. Haven't really done any calibration yet but so far, very pleased, especially since I got it around $610+taxes.

Tested with XBox 360 with VGA cable at 1080p. Both FILL and 1:1 works and I prefer 1:1.......looks awesome. Played FEAR on 360 and no ghosting..same for Fifa07, NFS....at least to me;)

Some initial screenies with my el-cheapo camera.






Frag

PS: Though the 720p native res of 360 games are a little noticable sitting from one feet away....not the monitor but the limitation of the 360. Now 1080p games on PS3 would be another story!! PC games....I dont need to say it as it's a whole new experiance at native 1920X1200!
 
Fragster said:
Tested with XBox 360 with VGA cable at 1080p. Both FILL and 1:1 works and I prefer 1:1.......looks awesome. Played FEAR on 360 and no ghosting..same for Fifa07, NFS....at least to me
Click to expand...

Huh...the monitor shootout made it sound like 1080P via VGA looked bad or something. Interesting.
 
Does anyone have this problem? When I move an certain icon over, it leave a black mark behind. Like it didn't get re-drawn, as it been sitting there too long. Sometime I re-arrange an icon over and I see it. This starting to annoy me. :mad: I hope it not just mine being defect. I 'm starting to think I have really bad luck with monitor.


lines.jpg
 
Vel

I just tried moving several colored icons on my desktop with a black background and do not see those 'trails' u r talking about. And mine is not even calibrated...still sitting at the default manufactureres settings.

MeatWad

Yeah...Im going to chime in that 2407vs BenQ thread as I've played finished FEAR and FIFA 07 demos on my 360 last night and did not see ANY of the lag/detail loss that the OP posted in that thread. Though as I stated before, 360 games are 720p native so even while the dashboard looks crisp at 1080p, the games are a little pixelated as they are 720p which becomes a little obvious from 1 feet away. Maybe thats the reason why console games 'look better' on TV's sitting >6 feet back.....but hopefully PS3 breaks this barrier by releasing 1080p native games in the near future.

I moved my 360 from my 57" Hitachi HDTV to my 2407 and I have no desire to move it back:D...for some reason, Im enjoying it more gaming from a feet away instead sitting 8 feet back from my TV....hope this helps.

Frag
 
Velocities said:
Does anyone have this problem? When I move an certain icon over, it leave a black mark behind. Like it didn't get re-drawn, as it been sitting there too long. Sometime I re-arrange an icon over and I see it. This starting to annoy me. :mad: I hope it not just mine being defect. I 'm starting to think I have really bad luck with monitor.


lines.jpg
Click to expand...

Velocities, thats not a monitor issue. The fact you have took a screen grab means its something to do with your graphics drivers or card.

I got my 2407WFP today and to be honest I am a little disapointed. Movies, even high res HD stuff just don't look as nice as my old VX910, there seems to be much more noise on the picture, maybe its just because I am seeing all the data where as the VX910 is scaling it down.

The colours and brightness on the Dell were bad, bad, I set it up next to my VX though and managed to get it pretty close to how I like it. I had to turn the Dell brightness down to zero though.

I also tried running a couple of games and movies in non-native with 1:1 mapping on (for example in 1600x1200). It all worked perfectly with no "tearing" at all, so I guess its vsync as mine is enabled in the ATI CCC.

Oblivion does indeed look nice at native 1920x1200 but my rig isnt really up to the job of playing it at that resolution. :)

I'll will play some more. If you want me to check anything compared to yours let me know. Its gonna take me a while to get used to turning my head to see the whole screen LOL.

Cheers,

Mike
 
I have had my A04 now since Friday, I did have a REVA03 but swapped as the 1:1 fracked me off. Anyhow since I bought it on ebay from some guy in scotland he had no problem in swapping one over which was done without incident.
So what's it like compared to the REV.A03.? Well its a lot better for many reasons. Firstly there is obviously the 1:1 which now works on my XBOX 360 in 1080p and my laptop in 1600 X 1200. (both were greyed out in apsect and 1:1 - which sucked!). It now looks awesome!!! I played Call of Duty 3 and was aware of the tearing in 1:1 or aspect, so I just turned it on and off again. Picture looked frackin awesome!! Then I played Fear .... awesome still! Then I played Harry Potter in HD-DVD. That was awesome too. I have heard some problems though like ghosting - what ghosting? It's smooth as the REV.A03. I now have a monitor which is future proof and exceeded my expectations!:D
 
Meatwad650 said:
Huh...the monitor shootout made it sound like 1080P via VGA looked bad or something. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Not from my expiriences with this A04.As to tearing,I have spent a majority of my time watching anime dvds and have had NO tearing at all,yet... But I would imagine it would have shown up after me watching dozens of dvds,as well as a few upscaled dvd's, and a few blue ray movies as well,on a rented 20Gb PS3.I just finished watching Casino
Royale BD50 and yesterday watched The Manchurian Candidate BD50,both looked spectacular.Anyway,I'm off to do groceries and rent a few more flicks.
 
stormyuk said:
Velocities, thats not a monitor issue. The fact you have took a screen grab means its something to do with your graphics drivers or card.

I got my 2407WFP today and to be honest I am a little disapointed. Movies, even high res HD stuff just don't look as nice as my old VX910, there seems to be much more noise on the picture, maybe its just because I am seeing all the data where as the VX910 is scaling it down.

The colours and brightness on the Dell were bad, bad, I set it up next to my VX though and managed to get it pretty close to how I like it. I had to turn the Dell brightness down to zero though.

I also tried running a couple of games and movies in non-native with 1:1 mapping on (for example in 1600x1200). It all worked perfectly with no "tearing" at all, so I guess its vsync as mine is enabled in the ATI CCC.

Oblivion does indeed look nice at native 1920x1200 but my rig isnt really up to the job of playing it at that resolution. :)

I'll will play some more. If you want me to check anything compared to yours let me know. Its gonna take me a while to get used to turning my head to see the whole screen LOL.

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...

Sorry for going offtopic, but what wallpaper are you using?
 
Manny Calavera said:
Not from my expiriences with this A04.As to tearing,I have spent a majority of my time watching anime dvds and have had NO tearing at all,yet... .
Click to expand...

I have seen this tearing now, with a couple of 1080p and 720p movie trailers. I was guted, so I plugged up my Viewsonic VX910 to try them and to be honest they did the same tearing, so I think its either my system (X1900XT and E6600) or the movies themselves as not all movies did it.

Sgt_Strider said:
Sorry for going offtopic, but what wallpaper are you using?
Click to expand...

Ones from Digital Blasphemy:

http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/

Mike
 
Fragster,

Of course you won't see the little black line that leave behind when you move an icon because it's black, so with black background you won't see it. Strange that it only happen with an underline name only such as Just_Me, Adobe_Photoshop, etc. and usually when it set at a certein place either far left or far right corner of the screen. If I leave it there for awhile, moving it to to the right side if it's on the left corner, and moving it left if it's on the right corner will leave a little black line behind. The background is New Bliss btw, and I have try different background and it still does this, so I don't think it's the background.

Look at what it's doing...

123.jpg



I try a longer line, and now it look like a total mess!

1234.jpg




I don't know why it is doing it, I'm using ATI X1900XT with the lastest Catalyst Driver. I just hope Stormy is right, may just be my Graphic Card. I just want to ask more people test this out for me though, I try this at my work place with different LCD and it doesn't do it.



As for the tearing go, it seam to very bad with when set to 1:1 under low res resolution. Bad enough to be seen in movie, turning on and off monitor make it go away. Seam to be a bug with the Rev A04 doing a 1:1 and Aspect Ratio. I launch Quake 4 for a test drive to see how the tearing is in game, and I was dissapointed to see the tearing was pretty bad, and there were horizontal line running across my screen. I try turning VSync on in the game option, Triple Buffering on my driver, and the tearing have gone away. Game play was also a lot smoother. I have pin down to the problem where there is tearing in game is due to frame rate exceed the low 60hz refresh rate of the monitor. This is a major bummer, because ATI Catylyst Driver no longer offer VSync option in the Catalyst Driver setting. It is now a game option only. I got very sick of the tearing when I play Final Fantasy XI because I cannot turn on VSync in this game. Omega Driver have force VSync on, but it only work with Catalyst Version 7.1, I have already updated to Catalyst Version 7.2. I was about to give up and get myself a BenQ because I heard it handle the tearing in game a lot better. However, I did stumble on a neat software call ATI Tray Tool. After installing this, I can access all kind of setting, even an option for force Vsync alway on mode. Now Final Fantasy play like a dream without any tearing at all. Like it a lot better now. I suggest people give the ATI Tray Tool a try if you see tearing in games or even movies. I could care less about input lag though, because it probably so slight that I don't even notice it. It either that or tearing, an easy choice for me. :D
 
Velocities said:
Look at what it's doing...
Click to expand...

I'll test this out on mine tonight.


Velocities said:
I suggest people give the ATI Tray Tool a try if you see tearing in games or even movies. I could care less about input lag though, because it probably so slight that I don't even notice it. It either that or tearing, an easy choice for me. :D
Click to expand...

The Catalyst Control Centre has the option for Vertical Sync under 3D options for mine in 7.2 but I doubt that would affect movies in windows, does the ATI Tray Tool fix movie tearing too?

The option in CCC is ""Wait for Vertical Refresh"" and force it to always ON with the slider bar under 3D settings. There seems to be no setting like this for the desktop though, which is why I wonder about movies..

Cheers,

Mike
 
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