![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Dell 2407 vs 2707
- Thread starter doddy
- Start date
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,167
I'm not a potential buyer of the 2707WFP (just bought myself another screen I'm very happy with), but I do get a lot of questions about which screen to buy. Thats why I am interested in the image consistency of the 2707WFP. I haven't been able to eyeball it myself yet, but it seems like a good screen. The problem is that the PVA/patterned vertical alligment (and also S-PVA) crystal alligment and movment have consistency problems from center view and slightly off center angle. Its a panel characteristic more then anything else. You can see it in every model or brand thats S-PVA/PVA based. I've read people claiming it isn't there from Dell 2405WFP up to Eizo CE240W. All of them failed the image consistency test, so you might understand why I'm sceptic. If you can prove that the 2707 doesn't have this issue, then it would be GREAT news for many potensial buyers and users!!!
The test is pretty simple:
Download this image:
http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59690548.1920Shadow.jpg
if you get permission error, press reload/CTRL+R.
Run it in full screen and take a picture from 5 degrees off center as shown below (3007WFP/S-IPS panel taken by Jupix@WSGF)
Monitor settings and camera quality doesn't matter, since we are looking for consistency, not picture quality. Camera's usually doesn't do the screen justice, so don't think about that.
Here you can see the 2405WFP with 2 different sets of pictures taken from off center angle and checked for consistency. This is more an extreme case and only included to show how we test it.
http://www.wsgfmedia.com/tamlin/24055degreex2rz.jpg
Here you go, i did a shot of it for you on my 2707WFP.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/kimnkk/IMG_2369.jpg
I didn't measure the angle so it definitely isn't a 5 degree offset. I don't know if that will drastically change the result, but i figured something is better than nothing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/kimnkk/IMG_2369.jpg
I didn't measure the angle so it definitely isn't a 5 degree offset. I don't know if that will drastically change the result, but i figured something is better than nothing.
A HUGE advantage to me in the 24" versus 27" debate is that a 27" monitor can display two full letter size pages of text. Additionally for those of us with old eyes the larger font size is very helpful.
It's unfortunate that right now the 27" costs more per square inch than the 30" does. Hopefully this will change soon.
It's unfortunate that right now the 27" costs more per square inch than the 30" does. Hopefully this will change soon.
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,167
Thanks!
It was taken from slight angle at center and did just fine. Taken from an edge with 5 degrees off center angle would be more like the image of the 3007WFP, but it did its job. According to the image, the 2707 is still not consistent unfortunately. Dark center (with the standard loss of dark level detail), light sides.
It seems like its improved a bit though, so thats the good news. 
Was nice to get it confirmed though. Here is a quick image I made to show the inconsistancy.
I have been on the fence for months trying to decide if I wanted to upgrade to 2707 from a 2407.
so I ordered a 3007, Good Lord the thing is huge and beautiful and even though I run dual 8800 GTX's and I know I can push all those pixels around no problem. It was just a little to big, FOR ME. so I got the 2707 this is just right. Its taller that the 2407 in fact almost as tall as the 3007 just not as wide. Pixel size I know people will say its too big. really reading is easier and the picture is awesome, well the 8800's help I'm sure.
so I can tell who ever may care 1st hand after having both the 2407, 2707 and 3007 non HC, that I prefer the 2707 it games great which is what I love to do. and with the dual 8800 GTX's I should be able to game for the next year maybe two years and never drop below 30 FPS, have to wait and see what DX 10 brings.
so I ordered a 3007, Good Lord the thing is huge and beautiful and even though I run dual 8800 GTX's and I know I can push all those pixels around no problem. It was just a little to big, FOR ME. so I got the 2707 this is just right. Its taller that the 2407 in fact almost as tall as the 3007 just not as wide. Pixel size I know people will say its too big. really reading is easier and the picture is awesome, well the 8800's help I'm sure.
so I can tell who ever may care 1st hand after having both the 2407, 2707 and 3007 non HC, that I prefer the 2707 it games great which is what I love to do. and with the dual 8800 GTX's I should be able to game for the next year maybe two years and never drop below 30 FPS, have to wait and see what DX 10 brings.
Tamlin_WSGF: No worries mate
I own a C2D Macbook (non-pro)and it runs at that resolution perfectly fine. I don't notice any slowdowns at all, but i didn't do much other than browse the net, e-mail and install a few programs. This was through DVI btw.
Edit: Specs are 2.0GHz C2D, 2GB RAM
I own a C2D Macbook (non-pro)and it runs at that resolution perfectly fine. I don't notice any slowdowns at all, but i didn't do much other than browse the net, e-mail and install a few programs. This was through DVI btw.
Edit: Specs are 2.0GHz C2D, 2GB RAM
My 2707 (that I just received yesterday) does not rotate to portrait mode. Unless I'm missing something completely obvious.
Odd that the flash animation on that page shows it rotating.
Someone who has never seen the 2707wfp made the Flash Animation, they show it Flipping over backwards too, which it does not do. I'm surprised Dell let that get by.
Tamlin_WSGF: No worries mate
I own a C2D Macbook (non-pro)and it runs at that resolution perfectly fine. I don't notice any slowdowns at all, but i didn't do much other than browse the net, e-mail and install a few programs. This was through DVI btw.
Edit: Specs are 2.0GHz C2D, 2GB RAM
I'm on a C2D MacBook as well (same specs too) and it handles the 2707 like a champ. Works well in clamshell mode (lid closed) and extended desktop. Though, it will turn on the fans if I do a few things simultaneously (Photoshop, watch video, encode video) but all in all a great peformer with this monitor.
You can expect the MacBook Pro to more than likely perform even better with it's dedicated graphics.
did those speakers come with it as well?I got my 2707 today! So far, it has exceeded my expectations. The thing is simply awesome! After I have a chance to play with it for a few days, I'll make sure to post a mini-review. In the meantime, here's a pic for your viewing pleasure:
Nope. I've had them for quite a while actually. It was pure luck that they happen to match the 2707 so well. If anyone is interested, they're made by Altec Lansing. Here's a link to the product information page. They sound pretty nice in my opinion.
ForBuilding
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2005
- Messages
- 194
Very good thread, I didn't know the the 2707 owned all of the other Dell monitors. good info and good testimonials.
I'm not a potential buyer of the 2707WFP (just bought myself another screen I'm very happy with), but I do get a lot of questions about which screen to buy. Thats why I am interested in the image consistency of the 2707WFP. I haven't been able to eyeball it myself yet, but it seems like a good screen. The problem is that the PVA/patterned vertical alligment (and also S-PVA) crystal alligment and movment have consistency problems from center view and slightly off center angle. Its a panel characteristic more then anything else. You can see it in every model or brand thats S-PVA/PVA based. I've read people claiming it isn't there from Dell 2405WFP up to Eizo CE240W. All of them failed the image consistency test, so you might understand why I'm sceptic. If you can prove that the 2707 doesn't have this issue, then it would be GREAT news for many potensial buyers and users!!!
The test is pretty simple:
Download this image:
http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59690548.1920Shadow.jpg
if you get permission error, press reload/CTRL+R.
Run it in full screen and take a picture from 5 degrees off center as shown below (3007WFP/S-IPS panel taken by Jupix@WSGF)
Monitor settings and camera quality doesn't matter, since we are looking for consistency, not picture quality. Camera's usually doesn't do the screen justice, so don't think about that.
Here you can see the 2405WFP with 2 different sets of pictures taken from off center angle and checked for consistency. This is more an extreme case and only included to show how we test it.
http://www.wsgfmedia.com/tamlin/24055degreex2rz.jpg
I am somewhat shocked when I see people consistently reference this particular image as the sole test for image consistency on a LCD panel. When it comes to (horizontal) image consistency the reference image is particularly biased towards IPS/S-IPS panel...why? because most IPS/S-IPS screens darken as the viewing angle increases, while S-PVA screens lighten.
That being said, if you would use another reference image which is predominantly white with various light colour hues, you will notice how in this respect IPS/S-IPS panels do not offer as good horizontal image consistency as current 21+inch S-PVA panels.
All in all, I would not base my decision on whether or not I should purchase this or another monitor solely on how consistent a dark or light coloured image is on screen as all LCD technologies fall short in one area.
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,167
I really don't want to derail this thread. I asked for a favor, got it and don't want to go off topic when someone does me a favor.
I'll answer some of you questions quickly now, and if you have more, please make a thread and PM the thread to me, and I'll answer more there!The reference image originates (I think) from digital photography forums. If that image were made to discriminate PVA panels it did a lousy job, he should use more dark level details to show the loss more then.
Darkening of image is a trademark of TN panels, not IPS. It doesn't favor them either, since darkening would show up as well as brightening on this image when checked for consistency. Any change of brightness/gamma will be spotted, regardless if its a darkening we speak of or a lightening of image.
If you take an image of an IPS based screen @ 5 degrees off center, predominantly white with various light colour hue, there will be no color shifts/image shifts at all. Where you get that idea, I don't know.
Using such image would only prevent us from checking the dark level details and that wouldn't benifit anyone (unless someone doesn't want that to be checked...). You wouldn't want that now, would you?
Here is the input lag comparison between the 2407 and the 2707. The 2707 is slightly more laggy.
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2961&p=7
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2961&p=7
Thanks for the article. Input lag is my greatest concern when it comes to buying an LCD. I still have a Sony 21" CRT. Every LCD I've seen seems laggy to me (I've only seen a few) but most seem to think they're fine now. I'm still not convinced.
I really don't want to derail this thread. I asked for a favor, got it and don't want to go off topic when someone does me a favor.
The reference image originates (I think) from digital photography forums. If that image were made to discriminate PVA panels it did a lousy job, he should use more dark level details to show the loss more then.
Darkening of image is a trademark of TN panels, not IPS. It doesn't favor them either, since darkening would show up as well as brightening on this image when checked for consistency. Any change of brightness/gamma will be spotted, regardless if its a darkening we speak of or a lightening of image.
If you take an image of an IPS based screen @ 5 degrees off center, predominantly white with various light colour hue, there will be no color shifts/image shifts at all. Where you get that idea, I don't know.
Using such image would only prevent us from checking the dark level details and that wouldn't benifit anyone (unless someone doesn't want that to be checked...). You wouldn't want that now, would you?
I have used several S-PVA and IPS/S-IPS panels and have observed what I had mentioned. In regards to TN panels the darkening that you speak of is actually colour/screen inversion similar to that of a film negative, however in the horizontal realm the screen inversion is still present but to a lesser degree.
Anyhow, if would like to see the IPS/S-IPS darkening that I speak of take a look at the IPS monitors pictured in the below URL (Yes, the viewing angle is greater than 5 degrees), as you will see, as the viewing angle increases the image gets darker/there is a lack of horizontal image consistency. The effect would appear significantly worse if the entire background was light blue. With the multitude of user posted photos of IPS panel equipped monitors, If desired, I am sure you can find other reference images on this forum with similar results.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/619-17/updated-survey-13-lcd-20-5-6-8-16-ms.html
http://www.behardware.com/articles/648-5/nec-multisync-lcd2690wuxi-the-first-26-inch.html
As mentioned earlier I question the use of the image that you have provided as the sole test material for testing LCD panel image consistency. I do not expect the above photos to change everyone's opinion since some are just set in their ways, but hopefully it would lead others to request more test material when someone is attempting to write off a certain technology.
That is all I have to say in this thread
MaximumPC magazine did a side by side comparison of the following 6 panels:
1. Acer 26
2. NEC 26
3. Dell 27
4. Dell 30
5. HP 30
6. Samsung 30
The Dell 27 was tied with the NEC 26 as the best large monitor over 24 inches to purchase as rated/reviewed by them. The major difference between the Dell 27 and 24 is the color gamut - 92 versus 72 (besides screen size). The Dell 27 is really a Dell 2707-HC imo.
The NEC 26 would have won the contest but they gave it to the Dell 27 because the NEC costs way more (probably because its an IPS panel).
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,167
Tdot: I appreciate your input, since I value accuracy of information. Though I disagree upon your statements, I think it might be worth considering using more test material.
Doddy: I don't think lack of HDMI is a big problem in screens, since they work with an adapter and doesn't utilize the sound channels. Later, when they fully support HDMI 1.3 with enhanced colors and similar, then HDMI would be a real benifit.
Another good review on the 2707WFP was one I found on extremetech:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2080696,00.asp
They didn't give it a high rating because of price, but they enjoyed everything else.
Doddy: I don't think lack of HDMI is a big problem in screens, since they work with an adapter and doesn't utilize the sound channels. Later, when they fully support HDMI 1.3 with enhanced colors and similar, then HDMI would be a real benifit.
Another good review on the 2707WFP was one I found on extremetech:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2080696,00.asp
They didn't give it a high rating because of price, but they enjoyed everything else.