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Dell 2007 fp/fpw Banding issue.
- Thread starter Snowdog
- Start date
catalyst11
Weaksauce
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- Apr 25, 2006
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Just received my 2007WFP today but unsure if I should open the box. I got it in a deal with the 5150. Should I sell it and go with a 1907? I'm worried about using photoshop on it.
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catalyst11
Weaksauce
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- Apr 25, 2006
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I thought about doing a return to Dell but it was part of the desktop package. I got a great deal on it. I called Dell this morning and asked if I could exchange it if the banding was too bad on it for me and they said yes, I would get like $100 something credit. So then I said OK, nevermind, I'll just ebay it instead of sending it back. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm going to run to Staples now and see if I can get the 19" Acer with DVI for $130 after EZ Rebate. If I can, I think I'll go with dual Acer's at $260 and sell the 2007WFP and keep some $ in my pocket.
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catalyst11
Weaksauce
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Well, I didn't think I could deal with the banding issues, doing photo-editing on it so I just listed it up on ebay. I'm going to buy a 1907 now and then possibly get something new in a couple years. Another thing that persuaded me to get the 1907 instead was that I've only used one WS computer monitor, the Gateway 21". It was a little awkward for me to use a screen that wide. I think having a dual setup for me is better, not to say it's better for everyone else. I did like the the input options on the 2007 but I don't think it was enough to deal with banding.
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Now Boxed,RMA'd and ready to return.
Dell 2007fp
Made in Mexico, March 2006, Rev A00.
Panel info: B01C18 SAM UXGA LTM201U1 (Samsung S-PVA)
Issues:
Text Blur:
There is a pixel wide mild blur that was not there on the 2405 which was pixel perfect. Not only that but attempts to photograph the screen are always showing rainbow moire. Which again was not there on the 2405, which points to an instability in the display as well. More signs of poor support electronics. I didn't have both monitors at the same time so I didn't shoot the same thing. But this is representative of the differences in clarity and pixel bleed.
Banding:
Yeah it is there. Not as bad as some other examples I have seen, but there is definitely color banding. Shot in RAW and never processed to JPG:
Terrible Viewing angles:
I planned to do a head on(before) shot and an off angle shot (after) to show what this PVA panel does. But my before shot was probably off center by a bit and off angle a bit. The result. Maybe 5 degrees off and still tone shifting like crazy. This should be a consistent tone across the screen. It is not even consistenet when facing the screen head on.
Source Image: http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59690548.1920Shadow.jpg
Dell 2007fp
Made in Mexico, March 2006, Rev A00.
Panel info: B01C18 SAM UXGA LTM201U1 (Samsung S-PVA)
Issues:
Text Blur:
There is a pixel wide mild blur that was not there on the 2405 which was pixel perfect. Not only that but attempts to photograph the screen are always showing rainbow moire. Which again was not there on the 2405, which points to an instability in the display as well. More signs of poor support electronics. I didn't have both monitors at the same time so I didn't shoot the same thing. But this is representative of the differences in clarity and pixel bleed.
Banding:
Yeah it is there. Not as bad as some other examples I have seen, but there is definitely color banding. Shot in RAW and never processed to JPG:
Terrible Viewing angles:
I planned to do a head on(before) shot and an off angle shot (after) to show what this PVA panel does. But my before shot was probably off center by a bit and off angle a bit. The result. Maybe 5 degrees off and still tone shifting like crazy. This should be a consistent tone across the screen. It is not even consistenet when facing the screen head on.
Source Image: http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59690548.1920Shadow.jpg
Ok, so I got mine(2007wfp) yesterday and It is perfect in every way. I don't see any problems with the naked eye.
Did I run a "test" on it? No. But serisously, who gives a F? If I can't see it with my naked eyes, its as good as not there. I surfed the web, played cs:s, and watched some movies....all flawlessly.
No tryinig to flame, but how much time do you guys actually have on your hands? lol
Ya know, before I came here I didn't know what backlight bleeding or banding was and when I had my 2005 I didn't notice the problems. I came here, learned about them and bam, the 2005 had all of them.
Maybe you guys shouldn't come here as much lol
Ignorance is bliss.
Did I run a "test" on it? No. But serisously, who gives a F? If I can't see it with my naked eyes, its as good as not there. I surfed the web, played cs:s, and watched some movies....all flawlessly.
No tryinig to flame, but how much time do you guys actually have on your hands? lol
Ya know, before I came here I didn't know what backlight bleeding or banding was and when I had my 2005 I didn't notice the problems. I came here, learned about them and bam, the 2005 had all of them.
Maybe you guys shouldn't come here as much lol
Ignorance is bliss.I dont' have time to waste on broken products.
I noticed the blurred text because I had another LCD so I I knew what it looked like. The viewing angles issues I never heard about until I noticed them and got really annoyed at how bad they are (does not apply to the 2007WFP as it has S-IPS panel) and the banding I do see on web pages and it was again not there with my Dell 2405.
If you aren't too fussy, well bully for you. Lots of people are oblivious. But some of use demand quality.
I noticed the blurred text because I had another LCD so I I knew what it looked like. The viewing angles issues I never heard about until I noticed them and got really annoyed at how bad they are (does not apply to the 2007WFP as it has S-IPS panel) and the banding I do see on web pages and it was again not there with my Dell 2405.
If you aren't too fussy, well bully for you. Lots of people are oblivious. But some of use demand quality.
Snowdog said:
I'm not oblivisous, on my monitor, it can't be seen with the naked eye. i've shown it to 4 different people.
I could care less what some test tells me. My eyes, and so do 8 others tell me it is flawless.
Maybe you do have a bad one, or maybe a lot of them are bad and I got lucky, either way, don't assume I'm oblivious.
If you are complaining about viewing angles, this pitch, that band, etc..., and you don't spend 14 hours a day or more on that monitor for work with graphics then yes, you are just being fusy and have too much time on your hands. If you are as busy as you say you are, you wouldn't be posting here as much.
imExcitebike
[H]ard|Gawd
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I as well got my 2007wfp yesterday.
I couldn't be happier. I was quite scared after having ordered it and reading all about the banding.
DOD:S, World of Warcraft, Half Life 2, and HL2:LC, Battlefield 2, and movies all look great to me. Its hooked up via dvi.
I'm at work now, and can take some pics when I get home to show you.
Also, I DID NOT run a gradient test or anything.
I couldn't be happier. I was quite scared after having ordered it and reading all about the banding.
DOD:S, World of Warcraft, Half Life 2, and HL2:LC, Battlefield 2, and movies all look great to me. Its hooked up via dvi.
I'm at work now, and can take some pics when I get home to show you.
Also, I DID NOT run a gradient test or anything.
Firewall said:If you are complaining about viewing angles, this pitch, that band, etc..., and you don't spend 14 hours a day or more on that monitor for work with graphics then yes, you are just being fusy and have too much time on your hands. If you are as busy as you say you are, you wouldn't be posting here as much.
Too much time on my hands? You will reach 1000 posts before I reach 100. Most likely I will never reach 100. I am here for a single issue and that is about it.
I could live with the banding. But the blurry text and viewing angle issues are in your face and annoying all the time no matter what you do. It doesn't have to be graphics. Viewing angle issues are exclusive to PVA and you most likely have a S-IPS panel. Possibly you have sharp non blurry text as well. If I had a S-IPS panel with sharp text, it wouldn't be sitting in the box waiting to be shipped.
I received my second 2007wfp just minutes ago. the banding is still there but only visible when i run the banding test. and the panel is still S-IPS made by L.G but the monitor was manufactured in Mexico this time, instead of China. I got the second one for $429+taxes CND , an a$$ whooping deal for S-IPS and HDCP. can't bitch about the banding for such a deal.
ForBuilding
Limp Gawd
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- Nov 30, 2005
- Messages
- 194
sounds like the made in mexico one is better than the made in china one.
ForBuilding said:
Hooray. Mine came today as well w/ Made in Mexico printed on the side. I haven't set it up yet since I'm waiting on my X800Pro to arrive. I just spent an hour reading about the banding issue and I'll wait to place judgement. I see that I'm not the only one who used the 25% off coupon the other night to get it for $430.
Mine was made in Mexico and it's still Crap...
The main reason most of us are ticked off is because this model was supposed to be so much better than the 2005, but it's not. If you spend this much money, you would expect the colors to blend smoothly.
The main reason most of us are ticked off is because this model was supposed to be so much better than the 2005, but it's not. If you spend this much money, you would expect the colors to blend smoothly.
Not running tests and then claiming there is no banding problem is just living in Denial. It is only a matter of time until you hit pages/games/movies that band. Maybe that doesn't bother you? It does me.
Here is the 32 page thread on Dell support forum. There have been samples of banding from games/movies/web pages as well as test programs.
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=55745#M55745
Sample banding in movie:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/tesebas/fz30/dell2.jpg
Dells own moderator once posted a message saying do not return for replacement at this time since they all have the issue. That message was later removed. Probably got him into trouble as well.
Also look closely for text blurring as in my shots above, harder to see than banding but many have reported it. I suspect they all have it as well. If you have another LCD compare closely. The whole imaging chain seems weak. I would wait for a fixed batch, or buy something else.
Here is the 32 page thread on Dell support forum. There have been samples of banding from games/movies/web pages as well as test programs.
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=55745#M55745
Sample banding in movie:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/tesebas/fz30/dell2.jpg
Dells own moderator once posted a message saying do not return for replacement at this time since they all have the issue. That message was later removed. Probably got him into trouble as well.
Also look closely for text blurring as in my shots above, harder to see than banding but many have reported it. I suspect they all have it as well. If you have another LCD compare closely. The whole imaging chain seems weak. I would wait for a fixed batch, or buy something else.
Snowdog said:
LOL, I love when people tell me what MY monitor, that they have never seen, has wrong with it. I'm an internet geek, I've been to hundreds of sites on it thusfar. I've watched at least 20 movies ranging from brand new to old as fuck when dvd's first came out. I've watched ripped tv episodes. I've played at least 5 different games on it. Oh, and my text, it is fine.
IT IS FLAWLESS
To everyone else, don't let posters like this one spread FUD. I've got one and it is awesome. It is way better than my 2005 was, and to date, the best monitor I've ever had.
"dells own moderater"- yeah, I'll listen to an idiot from dell. I can get a different answer from everyone I talk to from dell for the same question.
You put too much stock in one "dell dude".
Derfel said:
No, thats not it. My eyes are fine, and like I said earlier, I've showed it to about a dozen people.
I don't know why people hate so much because someone has something that they think is broken.
Don't buy one, I don't care. Do whatever the hell you want and then come here and complian about xyz issue with whatever monitor you buy.
While your wasting time, I'll be enjoying my 2007. Good bye.
Firewall I was responding to James who asked if it shows up in real usage. It does. I provided a link to the 32 page long Dell support forum where you will find many examples of real usage issues. Anyone wanting one of these panels might be interested in reading that thread:
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=55765#M55765
I also believe the Dell moderator of the support forum who has been following the issue for quite a while, and had the balls to admit the truth before he was shut down. Everyone who has tested has the issue, A large number found the issue before they tested. Everyone who got a replacement found the same exact problem. The weight of evidence indicates the problems exist with all of the panels, not just a few.
The only difference with your panel is the owner who chooses to ignore it. Nothing wrong with that. Most people may be happy with some banding. But it doesn't change the fact that there is an electronics problem with this panel.
When I had my panel, I saw it on many web pages, not just test programs. Example:
http://www.tv.com/sci-fi/genre/10/summary.html
Tell me how is the blue gradient background on this page. Nice and smooth like on my CRT. I don't think so. Fine and dandy if it doesn't bother you, but this is a real issue with these monitors. All of the dell 2007 series, as far as I can tell.
There is a difference between, "not testing and not noticing" and your monitor actually being the only unaffected one. I would be willing to place a large bet that your monitor is no different than any of the others with this issue.
Perhaps a philosophical difference, but I test every new piece of equipment so I don't have issues later. I run prime95 when I set up new CPU or Memory. Make sure it runs at least overnight, so it doesn't crash 20 minutes into games (like it did for my buddy. I told him to run prime, it failed in 5 minutes).
I run visual tests on new monitors so I don't get banding in web pages or movies. Example:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/tesebas/fz30/dell2.jpg
And then have to wonder if I have a faulty player, a bad codec, etc.... I prefer to know upfront rather than discover issues later, especially when I am in the full refund period.
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=55765#M55765
I also believe the Dell moderator of the support forum who has been following the issue for quite a while, and had the balls to admit the truth before he was shut down. Everyone who has tested has the issue, A large number found the issue before they tested. Everyone who got a replacement found the same exact problem. The weight of evidence indicates the problems exist with all of the panels, not just a few.
The only difference with your panel is the owner who chooses to ignore it. Nothing wrong with that. Most people may be happy with some banding. But it doesn't change the fact that there is an electronics problem with this panel.
When I had my panel, I saw it on many web pages, not just test programs. Example:
http://www.tv.com/sci-fi/genre/10/summary.html
Tell me how is the blue gradient background on this page. Nice and smooth like on my CRT. I don't think so. Fine and dandy if it doesn't bother you, but this is a real issue with these monitors. All of the dell 2007 series, as far as I can tell.
There is a difference between, "not testing and not noticing" and your monitor actually being the only unaffected one. I would be willing to place a large bet that your monitor is no different than any of the others with this issue.
Perhaps a philosophical difference, but I test every new piece of equipment so I don't have issues later. I run prime95 when I set up new CPU or Memory. Make sure it runs at least overnight, so it doesn't crash 20 minutes into games (like it did for my buddy. I told him to run prime, it failed in 5 minutes).
I run visual tests on new monitors so I don't get banding in web pages or movies. Example:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/tesebas/fz30/dell2.jpg
And then have to wonder if I have a faulty player, a bad codec, etc.... I prefer to know upfront rather than discover issues later, especially when I am in the full refund period.
Snowdog said:
How did you find the panel info? There are 2 screens being used correct?
I can only see bluring on mine when i run the test. For daily use it has been great so far. I'll wait this one out to see what Dell does before i send it back in. Mine is a Mexico April 06.
Sucka said:
If you saw a comparison picture with an LCD that has no banding problem next to yours... you will notice. Trust me. I thought mine was oh so perfect like Joe Shmo above, but when I tested it next to a Viewsonic VX2025, it was obvious that the dell was crap.
Panel info:
Power off.
Hold down "menu" and "+" buttons.
Power on (keep holding "menu +" till power up done).
Wait until the connector info dissapears off screen (dvi connector/Dsub).
Press "-" button.
You now see the service menu with the panel info at the top.
Power off.
Hold down "menu" and "+" buttons.
Power on (keep holding "menu +" till power up done).
Wait until the connector info dissapears off screen (dvi connector/Dsub).
Press "-" button.
You now see the service menu with the panel info at the top.
ok banding IS there and many people have proved it and we have seen it all. BUT those banding examples were taken by cameras sitting extremely close to the monitors. I doubt that for normal usage, you would ever stick your eyes to the screen. also why would anyone bother ordering 2007fp/wfp when you've already knew that they have banding issues and complain how bad DELL are? find me a monitor which has all the features of 2007wfp/fp and is perfect from defects for the same price. i don't think there is any. so stop bitching.
steveng said:
Actually I would say it is quite hard to photograph and is more evident in person than in photos. I always getting a chuckle when people complain that other people shouldn't complain... Irony. Bitching seems mostly localized in threads that say Dell 2007 banding, so just ignore those if it bothers you so much. Or join in and bitch about people complaining. Whatever makes you happpy.
Complaining serves a usefull function as a warning to potential buyers and a common thread to investigate issues.
My view is Dell messed up the whole series with some bad components. Many people with the issue even have previous Dells older models that are much better. The 2407 vs 2405 comparison is particularly notable. With the 2407 having banding and very blurry text compared to the 2405.
Less known and obvious than the banding is that blurry text issue. Shown in my own comparison of my 2405 and 2007 several posts back Post Link but also in this image. Note the blur/shadow around the 2407 text versus the clean 2405 text.
http://simon.fearby.com/temp/ocau/reviews/2407_Test.jpg
You can also note the rainbow moire on the 2407 shots and absence on the 2405 shots. This doesn't appear except in photographs but is also a consistent behaviour with the new Dells indicating the pixels are jittering. Again I had the same thing photographing my 2007fp but not when photographing my 2405.
Bottom line is evidence is that the new dells (2007 and 2407) have substandard imaging electronics that produce banding and pixel jitter/blur. Banding is easier to spot, and the blur is more difficult, and even more difficult on 2007 (smaller pixels) but it appears to be a prevalent issue as well, but you might not notice if you don't have near perfect vision and never saw a really stable jitter/blur free panel.
If we make no noise about it and just accept it, Dell has zero incentive to make the next batch any better. The more noise and more complaints the better IMO. The more likely the next batch will have this obvious defect removed.
I agree dell has good features for the price, but hey why not complain and try to get them to fix what is probably an issue with a 98 cent part, so it can also be free of this fundemental and obvious defect.
Earthworm48
n00b
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
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- 34
Does anyone know what Dell says in response whe people say they have these problems?
Snowdog said:
That's the attitude that consumers should show towards the products they buy. I think it was good to bring up this issue. Some people may not have problems, but some people will have problems. A warning and an investigation is fair game to all.
I totally agree with the last several posters. I own the previous models (2005 and 2405) and too me at least they have alot better screens than the new ones. In fact for the 2405 the difference is very very noticable. In fact with these new models dell totally lost my business. The only dell i am going to buy is the 3007 but if i cant get it on sale than im gong for the apple 30 incher. I love my apple 23 and the screen quality is unbelievable.
I just picked up my new 2007FP today, and have so far been very impressed, even after having seen this and other similar threads complaining about issues with the monitor. My previous monitor, a Viewsonic VP171b, had much poorer viewing angles, washed out blacks, and of course less desktop real estate
I had looked at the images posted in this thread as well as in the test program with my old monitor as well as my new one and couldn't tell what anyone was talking about... that was until I tried looking at them again through VGA connection instead of DVI... OH! Apparently my previous monitor has the exact same banding issues as my new one .
Color gradiant images and test programs aside, this monitor has been fantastic thus far, and I have not noticed any signs of banding aside from what was presented in this thread. I have played a couple games on it(CS:S and Oblivion), watched parts of several movies, and browsed through all of my usual websites, and have yet to find a real life situation where the banding was visible. YMMV of course, and obviously if you deal with photo editing or have some more professional use for your computer then you should certainly be wary.
Hopefully Dell can come up with a fix, but in the mean time I am still very pleased with my purchase.
I had looked at the images posted in this thread as well as in the test program with my old monitor as well as my new one and couldn't tell what anyone was talking about... that was until I tried looking at them again through VGA connection instead of DVI... OH! Apparently my previous monitor has the exact same banding issues as my new one
.Color gradiant images and test programs aside, this monitor has been fantastic thus far, and I have not noticed any signs of banding aside from what was presented in this thread. I have played a couple games on it(CS:S and Oblivion), watched parts of several movies, and browsed through all of my usual websites, and have yet to find a real life situation where the banding was visible. YMMV of course, and obviously if you deal with photo editing or have some more professional use for your computer then you should certainly be wary.
Hopefully Dell can come up with a fix, but in the mean time I am still very pleased with my purchase.
Check for blurry text as well. If it were only banding I might have kept mine. Though if you barely notice banding, then blurry text will probably be missed as well. This is not blurry like a bad CRT, but pixel bleed. When surrounding pixels should have zero bleed.
http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59944402.textComp.jpg (mine)
or
http://simon.fearby.com/temp/ocau/reviews/2407_Test.jpg (others)
http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59944402.textComp.jpg (mine)
or
http://simon.fearby.com/temp/ocau/reviews/2407_Test.jpg (others)
I plugged in the VGA cables and there is no banding issues... only with the DVI plug. I also get that terrible test bleeding crap. Isn't it like that because the pixels are smaller than the other models?
I havn't been able to sell my monitor and i've had it for a month now trying to get rid of it. I am stuck with an expensive paper weight. LoL
I havn't been able to sell my monitor and i've had it for a month now trying to get rid of it. I am stuck with an expensive paper weight. LoL
Borgschulze
2[H]4U
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No, they show an example of both.overdrive said:
Cliff Couser
[H]ard|Gawd
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- Dec 22, 2003
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US$350 at Newegg now..
I was about to pull th trigger on the 2007FWP....good thing I bumped into this thread.
I was about to pull th trigger on the 2007FWP....good thing I bumped into this thread.