Death of the Space Combat Sim?

What I would love to see is a new space sim along the lines of Freespace, with good multiplayer online support...but I will *NOT* touch a MMO type game with monthly fees.

Private multiplayer servers like Freelancer.

To those talking about the rebalance mod, you can find that at lancersreactor.com
Another good mod you can get there is Solarus. Latest update to that was about a week ago, and is an ongoing project. I believe Solarus used the rebalance mod as a base and went from there.
 
Bop said:
Maybe there is a possibility of a Serenity game seeing as it is recent and a damn good movie... get working publishers/devs!
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Haven't seen the movie, but I know from the show that:

1) The Serenity doesn't have guns

2) There doesn't seem to be a lot of space combat in the Firefly/Serenity universe.
 
I'll also add here, as I have before, that there's a little-known game called "Babylon 5: I've Found Her" that never finished development but does exist as a demo (at least, that's how I understand it). It's a GREAT space combat sim, but with a bit of a learning curve.

The physics are fairly realistic, so it's easy to overshoot your target by tens or hundreds of kilometers if you aren't careful. I once cruised almost 500 km past an asteroid I was doing practice runs on (goofing around) just trying to reverse the amount of inertia I'd built up. It took several minutes to get back :eek:
 
if they released a new X-Wing vs TIE Fighter game i would def pick it up. I used to love the old ones...
 
PopeKevinI said:
Haven't seen the movie, but I know from the show that:

1) The Serenity doesn't have guns

2) There doesn't seem to be a lot of space combat in the Firefly/Serenity universe.
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You should see the movie :p.

Space combat exists, and serenity has a type of turret on the top of the ship that Jayne uses in the movie for combat.

There's a fairly good sized space battle in the movie :).
 
Does anyone remember Frontier? It was the follow up to Elite, and allowed you to fly around in space, do battle, dock at Spacestations, fly down to and around planet's surfaces, fly back up to space. You had total freedom to do what you wanted. It was full of bugs which is what ultimately killed it. If this was redone properly today, and had multiplayer, it would be fantastic.
 
the more i think about it; the more badass a game like xwing vs tiefighter would be done with high end gfx now...

In space you have black, with stars and such as a backdrop for the majority of the game, with ships flying around that are small and tiny for the majority of the gameplay as you twist and dogfight with them


with modern tech; you could give massive detail to those tiny ships because thers very little landscape processing that needs to be done....

Couidl be frickin sweet methinks...
 
Worminater said:
In space you have black, with stars and such as a backdrop for the majority of the game, with ships flying around that are small and tiny for the majority of the gameplay as you twist and dogfight with them
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That's my biggest complaint about the majority of space combat games that have been produced lately. Space is not ultra-colorful like depicted in Freelancer. Space does not have electrical (or whatever) storms every 5k (SWG: Jump to Lightspeed). I would love to see another Freespace, or even a sequel to Freelancer, but for God's sake, DON'T SCREW WITH COLORFUL SPACE BACKGROUNDS! I want to fly through SPACE, not the inside of some demented artist's idea of what space should look like! Empty blackness with glittering stars everywhere!
 
Descent IV


"..I'd buy that for a dollar"




..or maybe even two ...or three ...or ....or..

I enjoyed Descent 3 ..I never finished the game and really dont know why .. :confused:
 
I never actually manged to get ahold of Descent 3, didn't have the system for it when it came out.

Never finished D1 or D2 either, I bought them as a compilation pack and my system fried before I could, then I moved, etc and so on....short of it is I never did get around to trying to reinstall them until recently, and my current system won't handle D1 at all. Too fast. Give you motion sickness in 10 seconds watching the way my ship bounces like mad in D1 now :p
 
I hope you're all aware that
1) Freespace 2 was opensourced, and
2) that due to a very unusual EULA, you're free to download a legal copy of the original game?

That doesn't mean that I don't want Freespace 3 like little else.
A new Elite, or a better Freelancer 2, or something else would be nice, but FS3 ... *sigh*.
 
Descent 4 would be such a hit now.. D3 was soooooooo fun in multiplayer, battling it out on the web through the tunnels. Now that there are so many online gamers it would surley be a thrill.

I really do miss the Space Combat sim genre. Freelancer was so very good it got my blood pumping again for a long gone genre. I do wish it had joystick support, but I can live without it. There is a thriving community of on-line freelancer teams out there at http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/ .
 
Stiler said:
You should see the movie :p.

Space combat exists, and serenity has a type of turret on the top of the ship that Jayne uses in the movie for combat.

There's a fairly good sized space battle in the movie :).
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They pulled the turret out from the wreckage in a certain place to mount it on the ship (not giving any more away so as not to spoil things).
 
HHunt said:
I hope you're all aware that
1) Freespace 2 was opensourced, and
2) that due to a very unusual EULA, you're free to download a legal copy of the original game?

That doesn't mean that I don't want Freespace 3 like little else.
A new Elite, or a better Freelancer 2, or something else would be nice, but FS3 ... *sigh*.
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Thank you for this post! I am downloading that tonight!
 
HHunt said:
I hope you're all aware that
1) Freespace 2 was opensourced, and
2) that due to a very unusual EULA, you're free to download a legal copy of the original game?

That doesn't mean that I don't want Freespace 3 like little else.
A new Elite, or a better Freelancer 2, or something else would be nice, but FS3 ... *sigh*.
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Intriquing. I never played FP2...does this require the original installation? Because I can't seem to install it :confused:
 
Nasty_Savage said:
Intriquing. I never played FP2...does this require the original installation? Because I can't seem to install it :confused:
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Read the How To, that they have. They tell you where you can download the original game, legally, for free.

You are in for a treat if you have never played the game before. It is, bar none, the best space combat sim I have every played.
 
Nasty_Savage said:
Intriquing. I never played FP2...does this require the original installation? Because I can't seem to install it :confused:
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Yes, it does. It's an overlay of sorts. However, read this. Note that it's perfectly legal. :)
 
I miss wing commander =( It was the first game i played on my first PC XD Wing Commander 2 and then STrike Commander (air plane though not space)
 
Digital Terror said:
That's my biggest complaint about the majority of space combat games that have been produced lately. Space is not ultra-colorful like depicted in Freelancer. Space does not have electrical (or whatever) storms every 5k (SWG: Jump to Lightspeed). I would love to see another Freespace, or even a sequel to Freelancer, but for God's sake, DON'T SCREW WITH COLORFUL SPACE BACKGROUNDS! I want to fly through SPACE, not the inside of some demented artist's idea of what space should look like! Empty blackness with glittering stars everywhere!
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You know, somehow they end up having every battle in the vicinity of a nebula lol.
 
mngl1200 said:
my solution was to reinstall Tachyon: The Fringe
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Can you get it to work with Win2k/XP? I love that game but I remember having trouble installing it after upgrading from 98se.

Bruce Campbell = lord and savior.
 
Spare-Flair said:
You know, somehow they end up having every battle in the vicinity of a nebula lol.
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Few reasons for that:

-Eye candy
-Visibility...ships that disappear against black space will stand out against a nebula
-Cheap way to introduce haze in space.

Let's face it...your average consumer isn't going to like realistic space combat. Space gives you no perspective, affords your enemies lots of ways to visually disappear, and combat can occur at any range with no atmosphere to interfere with balistics.

In real space, you could build a capital ship that looks just like a fighter, and it could be mistake for one visually because there is no frame of reference, no perspective to stop you from thinking otherwise. You'd be forced to rely heavily on sensors and instruments for navigation and tracking enemies, because the blackness of space would swallow a small craft if it didn't have a nearby star to illuminate it at the right angle. Energy weapons wouldn't disipate nearly as fast as typically portrayed, and some would have effective ranges of hundreds or thousands of km. Projectiles would go on forever...even missiles would stay on their last vector once they exhausted their fuel.
 
Nasty_Savage said:
Woo, in 12 hours when the download is complete I'll try it :rolleyes: (lol at 7KB /ps) :eek:
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I recently mailed those CDs to a poor guy on dialup. :D
(The bandwidth is nice, but the latency could be better.)
 
PopeKevinI said:
Projectiles would go on forever...even missiles would stay on their last vector once they exhausted their fuel.
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Hey these all make for some interesting friendly fire scenarios!

Personally I would love a space combat SIM with the technical depth of a game like Falcon 4.0. Many people would not find it as enjoyable, but given that combat would need to take place near orbit I could think it would be fun to add in space craft with no ability to enter a planets atmosphere. It would sure add an extra thing to think about.

The trick to make the physics managable would be to use real physics, but take the players imput and let the game make the players ship apply thrust and rotation as needed to create the result the player anticipated.

But this game would need a story to it. Perhaps some very minor and insignificant FPS elements. Maybe do like WC-1 where you go the barracks to save your game.
 
PopeKevinI said:
Few reasons for that:

-Eye candy
-Visibility...ships that disappear against black space will stand out against a nebula
-Cheap way to introduce haze in space.

Let's face it...your average consumer isn't going to like realistic space combat. Space gives you no perspective, affords your enemies lots of ways to visually disappear, and combat can occur at any range with no atmosphere to interfere with balistics.

In real space, you could build a capital ship that looks just like a fighter, and it could be mistake for one visually because there is no frame of reference, no perspective to stop you from thinking otherwise. You'd be forced to rely heavily on sensors and instruments for navigation and tracking enemies, because the blackness of space would swallow a small craft if it didn't have a nearby star to illuminate it at the right angle. Energy weapons wouldn't disipate nearly as fast as typically portrayed, and some would have effective ranges of hundreds or thousands of km. Projectiles would go on forever...even missiles would stay on their last vector once they exhausted their fuel.
Click to expand...

Thing is, if I remember right, the games that are held up as the epitome of all space shooter sims *DID* go with primarily all the action taking place in the deep black darkness of space. Freespace 1, Wing Commander (don't remember which one I played...limited budged back then, bleh), etc did not rely on super-colorful space backgrounds....and yet players had no problem with locating and destroying the enemy.

The only reason for devs to bother with colorful backgrounds and such is exactly as stated. Eye Candy...that and perhaps Lazy Gamer who can't be bothered to learn enough piloting skill to shoot down enemies against a black, starry background.
 
Digital Terror said:
Thing is, if I remember right, the games that are held up as the epitome of all space shooter sims *DID* go with primarily all the action taking place in the deep black darkness of space. Freespace 1, Wing Commander (don't remember which one I played...limited budged back then, bleh), etc did not rely on super-colorful space backgrounds....and yet players had no problem with locating and destroying the enemy.

The only reason for devs to bother with colorful backgrounds and such is exactly as stated. Eye Candy...that and perhaps Lazy Gamer who can't be bothered to learn enough piloting skill to shoot down enemies against a black, starry background.
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Well that was because those games had wonderful VGA graphics or very early 3D graphics which had extremely limited shading or light levels which meant that any ship you were fighting was a stark colorful contrast to the background of space. IE: Wing Commander II introduced some shading depending on the angle you viewed other ships at, but that was just a sprite that was colored darker and the transition was a very bad frame change from sprite to sprite. Freespace 1 also basically had nothing more than early colored lighting and that still imbued a saturated contrasting color to the background of space.

With new realistic shaders and lighting, a vessel could probably disappear completely into the blackness of space if there wasn't a real lightsource in the map, like a bright sun, etc. reflecting off the ship's hull at the proper angle for you as the player to see.
 
Great, so that means I would actually have to regain some piloting skills that newer games (JTL, Freelancer, etc) have let rot! BRING on the challenge!

At the very least, include in any game an option to SHUT OFF all those annoying backgrounds, so that fighting in Space FEELS like fighting in Space!
 
I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware :p

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha)
 
yblocgerg said:
I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware :p

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha)
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So your sig is for amusement only also? I wish the answer was as simple as that. Then there'd at least be hope that with better black-level LCDs (although current gen isn't bad), and with SED displays that the space sims would return in droves :p
 
HHunt said:
I recently mailed those CDs to a poor guy on dialup. :D
(The bandwidth is nice, but the latency could be better.)
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Funny thing is, I am on cable and my downloads are just lightning quick they must be hosting from dial up :D I cancelled the download. I'll try again some other time ;)
 
yblocgerg said:
I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware :p

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha)
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you, yet at the same time point out that you couldn't be more wrong.

Viable = Possible

The industry has decided that space sims are no longer -profitable- due to a vast number of consumers choosing the wrong hardware. It has been known since the very beginning that flat panel monitors were not capable of displaying true black, yet consumers were more concerned about desk layout, weight of product, and were sometimes even swayed by taking into consideration that they might occaisonally need to move around their desktop pc's monitor.

I'm willing to bet that Doom3 didn't receive as much appriciation from the gamers, because the gamers made poor choices, and the industry suffered as a result. This may be a factor in game companies no longer making space sims, due to the recent popularity of game-destroying display equipment.

As far as your comment, "There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black...", yes, its possible, with CRT. Ask anybody who does CAD work, or any game enthusiast who refuses to give up what LCD cannot provide... blackness.
 
Nasty_Savage said:
Funny thing is, I am on cable and my downloads are just lightning quick they must be hosting from dial up :D I cancelled the download. I'll try again some other time ;)
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If you are talking about HotU, they have all downloads severely limited in bandwidth so that they can serve more people at the same time. Net effect is the same as if they were uploading on a 56k. Just start the download before you head to bed, and it'll be done by the time you get up :rolleyes:
 
Digital Terror said:
Great, so that means I would actually have to regain some piloting skills that newer games (JTL, Freelancer, etc) have let rot! BRING on the challenge!

At the very least, include in any game an option to SHUT OFF all those annoying backgrounds, so that fighting in Space FEELS like fighting in Space!
Click to expand...

I find myself once again pimping B5:IFH :D

The game forces you to navigate on instruments if you're a few km out, and most of the backgrounds are black with some distant nebulae.

I'm going to have to install the game again now, been thinking about it too much. Need to hurry and finish Doom 3...
 
I never had much of a problem with following targets on a black background in Freespace 1 and 2. Unless I was directly next to a fighter in a dog fight, or relatively close to a capital ship, I would only use the radar to fly and navigate...I had no issue finding my objectives even if I couldn't see them initially.
 
I also just installed and got Tie Fighter the collectors edition (DOS) working perfectly on Windows XP service pack 2...

Just get the program VDMSound, and install it after installing TIE FIGHTER, modify the VDM config file to unrem the line that adds CDROM support, then just right click on the TIEAUTO.EXE and choose "launch in VDMSound" and configure your sound to autodetect, it will detect the emulated sound card, and then launch the game.

VDM will use your current joystick in the control panel and make the DOS games use it etc...

Basicly it works perfectly on my Windows XP service pack 2 with my Microsoft ForceFeedback 2 joystick. perfect sound etc...

I tried DOSBox at first but the sound stuttered and it just didnt run good, VDMSound though BLEW MY MIND....
 
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