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Dear Network & Security...

just2cool said:
Look, I don't want to get involved in a flame war.

As someone who works with a very large global infrastructure, I will say this about Cisco. Are their products cheap? Not really. Bug free? Hell no. Every time we test them, there's usually some IOS feature that gets broken in a new release and it sets us back.

Why do I like them then? They've got great support. I found a major IOS bug a few weeks ago and reported it to them. They worked with me to find out why the crash happened. Whenever they contacted the developer for the feature in question, he released beta code to me THAT NIGHT which was compiled for 8 different hardware platforms. I tested it, it worked fine. Then, even though the timeslot for bug fixes was closed for the upcoming version of IOS, they worked hard to force the fix in there and they were successful. They did this because they knew I needed this fix immediately in an official release of IOS in order to implement it in our infrastructure.

Juniper... they just don't match it (yet). I do like their new product offerings though.
Click to expand...


I agree. We receive supreme support from cisco (we have a dedicated engineer we can work with at any time). but then again, i wasn't arguing their support, I was arguing their products.
 
just2cool said:
Look, I don't want to get involved in a flame war.

As someone who works with a very large global infrastructure, I will say this about Cisco. Are their products cheap? Not really. Bug free? Hell no. Every time we test them, there's usually some IOS feature that gets broken in a new release and it sets us back.

Why do I like them then? They've got great support. I found a major IOS bug a few weeks ago and reported it to them. They worked with me to find out why the crash happened. Whenever they contacted the developer for the feature in question, he released beta code to me THAT NIGHT which was compiled for 8 different hardware platforms. I tested it, it worked fine. Then, even though the timeslot for bug fixes was closed for the upcoming version of IOS, they worked hard to force the fix in there and they were successful. They did this because they knew I needed this fix immediately in an official release of IOS in order to implement it in our infrastructure.

Juniper... they just don't match it (yet). I do like their new product offerings though.
Click to expand...

Must be nice. Clearly large global companies get a different level of support. The last few times I needed Cisco support, I opened TAC cases and got the newbie engineer of the week. We usually end up figuring out stuff ourselves. I like their gear and use it, but their SMB support is not that great IMO. If we ever get into a situation where we have a problem we can't figure out, we usually end up bringing in a contract CCIE from our Cisco VAR.
 
It's pretty easy to hate the big company in the market; I think that everyone should keep in mind that Cisco has probably single handed advanced computer networking technologies more than any other company in existence. Yes they do make a lot of proprietary technologies, but these in turn help to develop open standards, and Cisco works with the IETF and other companies to develop industry standards.

To say that something sucks just because it is difficult to master is juvenile. I used to be completely overwhelmed by working with Cisco equipment, so I decided to start down the certification track ... and in the process have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge that helps me to quickly resolve networking problems that I would have never gotten if everything was accomplished by a web interface. Having to understand the OSI model and how data becomes packets and frames can seem like a waste of time, but becomes critical to troubleshooting and optimizing large networks.
 
I've designed/implemented/support networks using both Juniper and Cisco and Extreme. For switches, I prefer Extreme over Cisco, for phone I prefer Avaya over Cisco, and for firewall/router/vpn I prefer Juniper over Cisco. Does that mean they are bad? Not at all, you can't go wrong with any of them. It's all about what is the best solution for you and your company. Cisco is kinda like the Babe Ruth of networking, everyone is chasing them, they are the standard to reach for. No single player has broken all of Ruth's records by himself, but individual records have fallen to many people. One company may have a better switch than Cisco, but that may be all they make. If you want a router, you need to look elsewhere. Again - it's all about what is the best solution for you and your company.

I find Juniper/Extreme easier to manage than Cisco due to their simplified design and simpler version systems. That is purely my opinion based on my experiences. I've been part of user groups for both factions, and I find it best to have knowledge of all of them to be the best value to your employer.

Companies acquire other companies, and they acquire their networks as well - you might find yourself managing both Juniper and Cisco one day...
 
Extreme switches are nice but their support contracts are about the same as Cisco's, at least, under state contract pricing for government bodies in Texas where I work. This becomes problematic because management hasn't heard of Extreme but everyone knows who Cisco is so you sort of get into this brand name problem. It's the same line of reasoning as "nobody ever got fired for buying Intel". Well I don't think anyone ever got fired for buying Cisco either.

We used to have some Extreme switches at the core of our network, they were great switches. But we got coerced to go all Nortel a couple of years ago, they wanted all Nortel because they were bringing in Nortel IP phones. Nortel's switches have a horribly clumsy Web interface. But they perform pretty good.
 
SyTyJedi said:
I've designed/implemented/support networks using both Juniper and Cisco and Extreme. For switches, I prefer Extreme over Cisco, for phone I prefer Avaya over Cisco, and for firewall/router/vpn I prefer Juniper over Cisco. Does that mean they are bad? Not at all, you can't go wrong with any of them. It's all about what is the best solution for you and your company. Cisco is kinda like the Babe Ruth of networking, everyone is chasing them, they are the standard to reach for. No single player has broken all of Ruth's records by himself, but individual records have fallen to many people. One company may have a better switch than Cisco, but that may be all they make. If you want a router, you need to look elsewhere. Again - it's all about what is the best solution for you and your company.

I find Juniper/Extreme easier to manage than Cisco due to their simplified design and simpler version systems. That is purely my opinion based on my experiences. I've been part of user groups for both factions, and I find it best to have knowledge of all of them to be the best value to your employer.

Companies acquire other companies, and they acquire their networks as well - you might find yourself managing both Juniper and Cisco one day...
Click to expand...

I think I have found my clone. :)
 
For you folks using Extreme switches... any of you find the bug where they reboot after being up for some ~220 days in a row? Which is followed by another reboot somewhere in the 400 range if they don't trip at the 200 one.

.... good times.
 
IT here wants Avaya/Shoretel/NEC for IP telephony and Extreme Networks for the rest, but the only word upper management wants to hear is Cisco. We actually got swayed onto Extreme Network's stuff when we had a package addresses to them delivered to us by accident. Who knew they had an office a floor above us! Got to see a bunch of stuff in person without having to wait for vendors to show up and try to sell us stuff (which has been the case with the IP phones). We still haven't purchased anything to replace our current stuff though, so options are open.
 
Blue Fox said:
IT here wants Avaya/Shoretel/NEC for IP telephony and Extreme Networks for the rest, but the only word upper management wants to hear is Cisco. We actually got swayed onto Extreme Network's stuff when we had a package addresses to them delivered to us by accident. Who knew they had an office a floor above us! Got to see a bunch of stuff in person without having to wait for vendors to show up and try to sell us stuff (which has been the case with the IP phones). We still haven't purchased anything to replace our current stuff though, so options are open.
Click to expand...

I haven't used any extreme switches, but you may also want to look into brocade. they recently purchased foundry networks and have some decent switches. they tout very low latency and energy efficiency. I've only used some of their older switches, which have been fairly stable overall considering they should have been upgraded years ago and are probably not even supported any more. either way, just another option out there. (they are also much cheaper $$ than cisco).
 
Cisco is king today because it was king before Juniper and Extreme started. Cisco has been agile enough through acquisition and product development to adequately fend off the competition. Cisco also has a diverse lineup and can be a single vendor solution in many environments where other vendors cannot. Combine this with Cisco’s proficient and well established sales and engineering and you have a big company that is hard to knock off its thrown.
 
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