DDC Pump Questions

Epos7

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I'm working on sourcing parts for my first water cooled build (and first custom loop). For the reservoir, I ordered the following. It's specific to the NCASE M1 and comes without a pump.

IceManCooler Ncase DDC Reservoir ,Small Water Tank for Ncase M1 Cabinet V4 V5 V6,Support 8cm 9cm Fan Holes Mount ICE NC PR|Fluid DIY Cooling| - AliExpress

I need to source a DDC pump. Initially my understanding was all Laing DDC pumps are the same outside of the enclosure, so I ordered the cheapest PWM version I could find - Alphacool Laing 12V DDC-1T Plus PWM.

However now I'm not so sure I got it right. At minimum, it looks like I may need a pump top. I'm assuming I would remove the pump from the Alphacool enclosure and install it with the pump top on the reservoir linked above. I'm not entirely sure if this is the best approach, or if I should just order a different pump altogether.
 
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Youll be fine with that pump. Youll have to remove the stock top. Then mount the pump to the res. So the res will essentially become the pump top.
 
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Epos7

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Thanks!

Do the various housings that use the Liang pump make and difference to noise levels, or are they purely for aesthetics? Put another way, would the noise level of all Liang DDC pumps installed in the IceMan res be the same, or will some be quieter than others?
 

thesmokingman

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Thanks!

Do the various housings that use the Liang pump make and difference to noise levels, or are they purely for aesthetics? Put another way, would the noise level of all Liang DDC pumps installed in the IceMan res be the same, or will some be quieter than others?

The metal cases are for cooling, and its not a bad idea to use one. There's many different kinds of cases/housings like the bitspower one for ex. They can dampen some noise somewhat but that is really down to how decoupled the pump is. The iceman setup obviously will do the opposite and couple it to the res, however if you look closely at the iceman picks, you can see it is decoupled from the case with what looks like rubber bushings of some sort.
 

Epos7

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The metal cases are for cooling, and its not a bad idea to use one. There's many different kinds of cases/housings like the bitspower one for ex. They can dampen some noise somewhat but that is really down to how decoupled the pump is. The iceman setup obviously will do the opposite and couple it to the res, however if you look closely at the iceman picks, you can see it is decoupled from the case with what looks like rubber bushings of some sort.
Cool, thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

It sounds as though something like this would fit on the IceMan and offer better heat dissipation and possibly lower noise:

EK-DDC Heatsink Housing - Black – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)
 

Epos7

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A number of the heatsink/cases for DDC pumps are made of aluminum. They maybe be anodized, but would this be a little risky? My understanding was aluminum is best avoided as it doesn't always play nice with other metals.
 

thesmokingman

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A number of the heatsink/cases for DDC pumps are made of aluminum. They maybe be anodized, but would this be a little risky? My understanding was aluminum is best avoided as it doesn't always play nice with other metals.

Why do you think the housing touches the water??
 

Epos7

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I ordered the Bitspower DDC heatsink, and it looks like my IceMan res is somewhere in customs. Slowly coming together!
 

termite

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Also, you do not need a heatsink. They may help with longevity, especially if the pump is run constantly at higher rpms.

The issue with DDCs is that they do need ventilation and they are small so the can usually be tucked away where they may not get the ventilation they need. D5s on the other hand dump their heat into the loop, and is why the vast majority of the shrouds you find for them are pretty much just mounting points or decorative.

The second arguably bigger benefit of the ddc heatsinks is that they usually provide better attachment options, and can incorporate vibration dampening.
 

Epos7

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Also, you do not need a heatsink. They may help with longevity, especially if the pump is run constantly at higher rpms.

The issue with DDCs is that they do need ventilation and they are small so the can usually be tucked away where they may not get the ventilation they need. D5s on the other hand dump their heat into the loop, and is why the vast majority of the shrouds you find for them are pretty much just mounting points or decorative.

The second arguably bigger benefit of the ddc heatsinks is that they usually provide better attachment options, and can incorporate vibration dampening.

Thanks for the additional info! This DDC will be mounted on the back of the case, so airflow shouldn't be an issue. Mostly I'm hoping that it helps a bit with noise. My goal for this build is to keep it as quiet as possible.

Now that I have the Alphacool pump in hand, I can see which part the heatsink would replace. The stock case on the Alphacool has a pretty sharp pin sticking out the middle, so replacing that with the Bitspower heatsink may be a nice side benefit.
 

thesmokingman

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Thanks for the additional info! This DDC will be mounted on the back of the case, so airflow shouldn't be an issue. Mostly I'm hoping that it helps a bit with noise. My goal for this build is to keep it as quiet as possible.

Now that I have the Alphacool pump in hand, I can see which part the heatsink would replace. The stock case on the Alphacool has a pretty sharp pin sticking out the middle, so replacing that with the Bitspower heatsink may be a nice side benefit.

Noise? Keep the DC below 52% and make sure it's decoupled and you will barely know it's running. And you really want to monitor via water temp in which case the DC ramp will be a very small range but have a serious ramp.
 

Epos7

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Noise? Keep the DC below 52% and make sure it's decoupled and you will barely know it's running. And you really want to monitor via water temp in which case the DC ramp will be a very small range but have a serious ramp.
I do have a temperature sensor. It's a G1/4 plug style, so I was thinking about installing it in the reservoir drain port.
 

Epos7

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As it turns out my motherboard doesn't have a header for a temp sensor. Might put an end to my plants to control the loop via coolant temperature. After some research, it looks like my only option would be integrating a controller like the Aquacomputer aquaero 5 LT but it's not cheap, and doesn't support PWM.

edit - Corsair Commander PRO might work...
 
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termite

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As it turns out my motherboard doesn't have a header for a temp sensor. Might put an end to my plants to control the loop via coolant temperature. After some research, it looks like my only option would be integrating a controller like the Aquacomputer aquaero 5 LT but it's not cheap, and doesn't support PWM.

edit - Corsair Commander PRO might work...

Corsair commander pro does work. Not with the granular detail the Aquaero does. I use one, and it works perfect for my needs.

You can even set up different profiles for different programs. When I launch 3DMark for instance spins the pump up and fans up to about 75% right out the gate. While normal usage has a nice curve.

It will pick up any temp sensors on CPU/GPU/Mobo and can use those, and it comes with two probes and 4(?) jacks for additional probes. I use temps for coolant and ambient for monitoring purposes. But CPU and GPU die temps (or at least stated temps) to control the curves.

Not everyone likes iCUE but I have zero issues with it. It does have a bit of a learning curve.
 
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As it turns out my motherboard doesn't have a header for a temp sensor. Might put an end to my plants to control the loop via coolant temperature. After some research, it looks like my only option would be integrating a controller like the Aquacomputer aquaero 5 LT but it's not cheap, and doesn't support PWM.

edit - Corsair Commander PRO might work...
The 5LT is outdated - the newer version of what you want is the Quadro. Much smaller, less expensive, richer feature set. Absolutely a better buy than the Corsair Commander.
 
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Epos7

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Corsair commander pro does work. Not with the granular detail the Aquaero does. I use one, and it works perfect for my needs.

You can even set up different profiles for different programs. When I launch 3DMark for instance spins the pump up and fans up to about 75% right out the gate. While normal usage has a nice curve.

It will pick up any temp sensors on CPU/GPU/Mobo and can use those, and it comes with two probes and 4(?) jacks for additional probes. I use temps for coolant and ambient for monitoring purposes. But CPU and GPU die temps (or at least stated temps) to control the curves.

Not everyone likes iCUE but I have zero issues with it. It does have a bit of a learning curve.
Thanks for the info. I went ahead and ordered a Commander. Not a huge fan of iCue but I'm willing to give it another shot.
 

Epos7

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The 5LT is outdated - the newer version of what you want is the Quadro. Much smaller, less expensive, richer feature set. Absolutely a better buy than the Corsair Commander.
The Quadro looks perfect, but not in stock anywhere I can see. Its smaller size would be a big advantage over the Corsair.
 

Nobu

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There's also the AquaComputer Power Adjust 3, which has two outputs (30w ea.), temp and flow inputs, and usb interface. Description seems to indicate it can be used without an aquabus controller, but I'm not certain on that.
 

Epos7

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There's also the AquaComputer Power Adjust 3, which has two outputs (30w ea.), temp and flow inputs, and usb interface. Description seems to indicate it can be used without an aquabus controller, but I'm not certain on that.
Looks like no PWM on that one, either the standard or ultra version.
 
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thesmokingman

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As it turns out my motherboard doesn't have a header for a temp sensor. Might put an end to my plants to control the loop via coolant temperature. After some research, it looks like my only option would be integrating a controller like the Aquacomputer aquaero 5 LT but it's not cheap, and doesn't support PWM.

edit - Corsair Commander PRO might work...

In that case you can get by w/o water temp monitoring. All you have to do is keep in mind how quickly the cpu reacts to load changes so you add delays into the pump so that it doesn't react instantly. You don't need to get anything else unless you want, it's not a have to thing.
 
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Epos7

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In that case you can get by w/o water temp monitoring. All you have to do is keep in mind how quickly the cpu reacts to load changes so you add delays into the pump so that it doesn't react instantly. You don't need to get anything else unless you want, it's not a have to thing.

Unfortunately I haven't had much luck adding a delay to my CPU fans, and I think a pump would be similar. Ryzen seems to have kinda unpredictable temperature spikes, and even with fan lag set to the maximum they spin up to their max setting for brief periods when opening a program etc. My main goal watercooling is to keep things nice and quiet so temp sensor integration seems like the way to go.

The more I read about iCue I don't want to use it. I had it installed for my Corsair headset and uninstalled it when I was trying to troubleshoot some instability issues. Haven't had any Windows power events since I uninstalled it.
 

thesmokingman

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Unfortunately I haven't had much luck adding a delay to my CPU fans, and I think a pump would be similar. Ryzen seems to have kinda unpredictable temperature spikes, and even with fan lag set to the maximum they spin up to their max setting for brief periods when opening a program etc. My main goal watercooling is to keep things nice and quiet so temp sensor integration seems like the way to go.

The more I read about iCue I don't want to use it. I had it installed for my Corsair headset and uninstalled it when I was trying to troubleshoot some instability issues. Haven't had any Windows power events since I uninstalled it.

You might not be doing it right. In fan and pump settings in the bios, there's a section for delays. I forget the exact wording but that's where you input said delays. The cpu can make power state changes in 1ms. You have to understand the difference between power state changes in relation to load variability versus you throwing an actual load onto the cpu. If you're running an app, that will be a long sustained load where the cpu will get up to temp and stay there for a while. It's not a transient power state change which is what bothers ppl so much. Thus set the delays to a few seconds and that will cover any transient changes and will mean that the pump and fans will only react if the temp change extends further than X seconds.
 

Epos7

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You might not be doing it right. In fan and pump settings in the bios, there's a section for delays. I forget the exact wording but that's where you input said delays. The cpu can make power state changes in 1ms. You have to understand the difference between power state changes in relation to load variability versus you throwing an actual load onto the cpu. If you're running an app, that will be a long sustained load where the cpu will get up to temp and stay there for a while. It's not a transient power state change which is what bothers ppl so much. Thus set the delays to a few seconds and that will cover any transient changes and will mean that the pump and fans will only react if the temp change extends further than X seconds.

It's possible I'm not using the right setting. My BIOS looks identical to this:

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14807/190904110713.jpg

I think temperature interval is the setting in question, but I haven't had much luck changing it. Best I've been able to to is tweak the curve so the fans spin a little slower across the board.
 

thesmokingman

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It's possible I'm not using the right setting. My BIOS looks identical to this:

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14807/190904110713.jpg

I think temperature interval is the setting in question, but I haven't had much luck changing it. Best I've been able to to is tweak the curve so the fans spin a little slower across the board.

You need to switch the fan control to PWM then the delays will be enabled. At normal it's controlled by voltage.
 

Epos7

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You need to switch the fan control to PWM then the delays will be enabled. At normal it's controlled by voltage.
Sorry, that was just an image grabbed from a review to show what options are available. I do have it set to PWM, although I think if auto worked correctly it would set to PWM mode when one is connected.
 

thesmokingman

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Sorry, that was just an image grabbed from a review to show what options are available. I do have it set to PWM, although I think if auto worked correctly it would set to PWM mode when one is connected.

I absolutely hate the gigabyte fan control, absolutely putrid but the delays do work. I had to do just that to tame a 3970x workstation rental that used an Aorus Xtreme.
 

Epos7

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I absolutely hate the gigabyte fan control, absolutely putrid but the delays do work. I had to do just that to tame a 3970x workstation rental that used an Aorus Xtreme.
I want to say I had better luck on an earlier BIOS, maybe I need to see if there's a new one available to try.

I've got that Commander on the way so I may end up using that as I do have a couple temperature sensors I'd like to use. If only they had better software.
 

Epos7

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Yeah, on second thought I don't want any part of iCue so I'll likely return the Commander Pro and just wait for the Quadros to be back in stock. In the mean time I have a few PWM splitters so I can set everything up with the motherboard BIOS and see if I can dial in the temperature based on CPU readings.
 

Epos7

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I managed to find an Octo at Overclockers UK, so I've got that on the way. It's a little overkill as the Quadro would have been perfect, but seems to be miles ahead of the Corsair in terms of software.
 

Epos7

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Is it normal for new pumps to have a little bit of water inside? Guessing it's just leftover from QA, hopefully I didn't get a used pump.
 

Epos7

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No, it should be dry...where did you buy it from?
Performance PCs. Here's a pic when I opened it up:

DSCF4886.jpg
 
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Either its new and been tested by ppcs for some reason or its a return. Ive bought alot of ddc pumps from alot of different suppliers and ive never had one come with water inside. Ive actually got a brand new laing ive never used and it definitely doesnt have any water inside.
If the board is dry it should work fine but I would have a hard time trusting it. I hate to say it but you should call ppcs and find out what the hell is up.
 

Nobu

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Could be condensation if it got really cold in shipping.
 
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