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DC Vault 2

I reposted a new thread about possibly changing up the rules for how the Vault does things here: http://www.team-ninja.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=372989#post372989

Some had felt that the discussion was in the wrong area of the forums and would get more exposure if moved. Rusty didn't move it when requested, so I made a new post. Please take the time to jump in and give your $.02

Jathanis, sorry to here the issue still exists. I know Cosmology gets little feedback from the admins on issues. I've never gotten the feeling that they even really care. It's a shame really. :(
 
I'm almost of the mind that we should maybe stop supporting Cosmology. I like the science of what they are doing, but if they don't support their user base, then why should we continue supporting them? On a similar vein, I had plans of attempting (and probably failing) at developing a CUDA Cosmology app, but their source code is not available (that I can find, I'm not the brightest and may have missed it) and I've been unable to get in contact with any admin or anyone associated with the project for that matter.
 
Touch wood, my Intel quad has been stable on Cosmology which makes a change, though it's only been running for 2 days so far. That said, CPU usage has been only around 75%, looks like two of the Cosmology threads are running around 50-60% rather than 100%, not sure why and haven't had chance to take a good look at it yet.
Is Cosmology known to run better on Linux than Windows? Certainly seems a little faster on it even though the CPU is slightly slower than my main machine, although with the WUs varying in length it's hard to tell.

Edit: I agree with what's been said though, Cosmology's forums are pretty devoid of help & support, and there's very little or no presence from the site admins there.
 
Kai said:
I'm almost of the mind that we should maybe stop supporting Cosmology. I like the science of what they are doing, but if they don't support their user base, then why should we continue supporting them? On a similar vein, I had plans of attempting (and probably failing) at developing a CUDA Cosmology app, but their source code is not available (that I can find, I'm not the brightest and may have missed it) and I've been unable to get in contact with any admin or anyone associated with the project for that matter.
Click to expand...

Did you try going through Faik? http://www.cosmologyathome.org/show_user.php?userid=78183 He used to forward a bunch of things in the forums to the appropriate places. I doubt you get very far though. Their downloads issue has been going on for over 4 years now.

I would agree to stop support except that also means possibly losing position in the Vault. Possibly just not do another push there for a long while and just let people support as they get the urge. If I made a no support list, it would probably cut the Vault in half.... :eek:
 
Captain, I honestly don't know over there on if there is a difference. Not enough chatter/activity to get feedback and I haven't done any tests. Most of the time, they are about the same until you get into 64bit apps. Then you start to see Linux really shine. At least at WCG that was the case. You may even find Linux outperforming at projects that started with Linux support and then ported over to Windows, but that is just speculation.

It appears that it wont be long before we lose another spot at Muon1. That is worth 135.14 points. Probably about a month or so.
 
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I'm not sure how this Vault thing works. Is there a stats page for it? Remember, I've been running F@H for over a decade. This BOINC stuff is all new to me.
 
Were only #5? That's not very [H]ard. :(

So, I'm already helping since I'm running GPUGRID and WCG? I have to say, my GPUs are getting 98% of the points. WCG on my 2600K is like folding smp. A poor performer PPD wise.
 
Actually, for our size, #5 is actually pretty [H]ard - when we first became aware of the Vault, we were down in the teens, and with generally less than 10 regular Commandos, worked up to where we are today. Many of teams we passed had more members than us, but we still passed them by. Problem now is that the teams ahead of us actually have dozens or even hundreds of members, so we now need sheer power to move up further...
 
I have a thread about BOINC points, but I will sum it up. You can't really compare one BOINC projects points to another BOINC or non-BOINC project point systems. They all create their own. WCG is known for giving out low amounts. GPU's typically crank out a lot more work than CPU's, so even if there was fixed rate of points per work unit done, they would still out perform CPU's hands down. (In general) I think the only project that is running a GPU app that isn't all that beneficial right now is Asteroids. I honestly don't know if they can make it any better. Rosetta stated in the past that their would be no gain to their app even though it was possible to make one, but that was very early on in the game. They may have found new use, but I haven't kept up on the politics over there.

Here is the points comparison thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1798688

If you really look at it, 5th is pretty darn [H]ard. Look at the teams ahead of us and how many members they have. Compared to the number of members (active or not) they dwarf us, but our production is much higher per member than most teams.
 
With only 6 more days of the month to go, we need to decide on the next push.

So, what is the general consensus? POGS probably has the most point potential of the BOINC projects, but there is a lot of activity there right now. We would need to get a strong lead to cushion against those we pass.

OGR or RC-5 could really use a push, but I haven't even messed with their clients yet. I think we would probably get more of the converts on board if we went with a bio/medical project. POEM would normally be a good candidate, but GPU will probably be sometime in Feb. possibly March. I would recommend letting the bugs get worked out before giving anyone a bad impression there. SIMAP on the other hand is estimating ~40 days of work left for this batch. That might be a strong choice for CPU. (most of our converts seem to be bringing CPU's and leaving the GPU's at FAH for now)
 
I have a computer somewhere in this house still running RC5 from some time ago, putting up about 200K points per month. OGR-27 was at 96% done back in November, and now they're saying a few more weeks and they're moving on to OGR-28: http://blogs.distributed.net/2014/01/22/09/28/bovine/ RC5-72 is only at 3% after several years, and lost its official sponsor, but is still running just for the fun of breaking the code. According to their server stats, there's a 100% chance of cracking the code at current rates in 239 years... However, I think when this one's done, it's done, and there likely won't be an RC-80.

I could go either way, as the dnet.com client is a simple command line program. It seems like this is also a project that all you VM gurus could have fun with. As I mentioned, it's been running in the background on one of my machines, but I'm not sure how much of a BOINC difference I've seen...

So I'm already up and running on POGS, have about 900K points on OGR, and just passed 2.5M on RC5 - I'm good either way. We could also look at a double push, POGS and one of the two dnet.com options...
 
Jathanis, perhaps you could make a guide on the clients for RC5-72 and OGR-28? I saw the OGR end info over at YoYo since they have the app for BOINC. It just sucks that there is overlap at the Vault. I would much rather just run it on BOINC, but to be fair to the non-BOINC'ers the dnet.com client should be supported. It just feels like double dipping points. Especially when YoYo has both of those project in its umbrella.
 
Yeah, I could throw a dnet.com guide together in the next few days - let me catch up on a blog and a survey thing I'm setting up for a non-profit group I work with, and I'll get right on it.

I know I've heard similar comments about double dipping between OGR and Yoyo, but I've yet to run the Yoyo version of OGR to see if my dnet.com account gets points, too...
 
I doubt your dent.com account gets credit. What I meant about double dipping is that we get Vault points for OGR and then we get more Vault points for YoYo running their wrapper for OGR (double points). We aslo do the same for Muon and YoYo.
 
Yes, but I read somewhere once that some groups somewhere running Yoyo were getting both Yoyo points AND OGR points, both for just the BOINC client. I honestly have no issue with the double dip aspect if you're required to run two separate clients... But I guess I can see where some people might!
 
I think if you do the work, you should get the credit, but that is limited to the project itself. Currently one project can get you theoretically twice the Vault points (you just switch between the clients). That is the double dipping that shouldn't happen. However, it is a problem that is only fixed by excluding the work others did by running a different client. It is one of the flaws of how the Vault is set up. Granted I don't see people specifically running YoYo just for OGR. It is just a theoretical/philosophical double dip dilemma. Since only a hand full of people actually post in their forums, it isn't something that is likely to ever see light of day. Last I checked, 39 people viewed my post about needing to potentially change the Vault rules and nobody responded with an opinion or even a +1 -1 statement. What volunteers probably don't realize is that active comments in their forums is what influences their decisions. It really is poorly ran over there.
 
We're about to get mowed hard by two teams in Milkyway, and it looks like we'll drop more places over the coming weeks/months as our next overtake opportunity is ~3 months away at our current rate.
 
Hopefully, within the next couple weeks I will have a 7970 up and running. This should help a little. I was going to have a 4870, but it isn't stable. Drivers keep crashing on it.
 
I just have too many critical issues with systems while also trying to transition my home farm lately. So, my numbers are all over the board and may not be focused very well for a bit. My latest build is currently running an AMD 4550, nVidia 210, nVidia 8400, and an nVidia 8400GS. Unfortunately, I may have a RAM compatibility issue and I need a better power supply so that I can get the correct cards in the box. That box will eventually have the 7970, 4550, 6750, (was going to have a 4870) and probably a 5450. The only card on that list that works with Milkyway is the 7970...

Then, I have to experiment with my i7 920 in the MSI Big Bang X-Power board. I have a few new ideas for getting multiple GPU's to work in it since it has 6 PCIe X16 slots in it. I've had varying troubles getting multiple cards and which cards to show up.

Then, I have another 24 core build I have to get up and going which also may require a few more parts that I don't currently have. That will open up 2 PCIe X16 slots that I need to fill. Those slots will be filled depending on what cards I have left after the above systems get finished and what systems I cycle out of the house....
 
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Well...we only have 2 days before the next push. So far there has been suggestions for:
POEM
POGS

POGS to me is the smarter choice for points since POEM will probably be a few more weeks or longer getting GPU work. (There will probably be a huge rush for those work units too).

Anybody else have a suggestion or a vote?
 
I just dropped both of my i2p systems onto POGS.
 
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POGS until POEM GPU is released and then switch to POEM? I don't want to lose spots on POEM once GPU is running and everyone jumps aboard.
 
That is up to you...but you can leave the CPU's on POGS and run the GPU's on POEM....Just change your default settings at POEM under your account to only accept GPU work units. Or you could write and app_config file...
 
Point-wise, you would probably do better at GPUGrid with nVidia cards. But this upcoming POEM GPU app hasn't been ran yet, so no one can tell until it launches. If it is OpenCL based again, most likely AMD outperform nVidia. That and if you return work quick to GPUGrid, they give a nice bonus.
 
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I dont think you need to worry about loosing posisition on Poem since [H] is currentley in the #1 spot for PPD seems there may be 2 or 3 F@H members playing in that pot :D
 
Unless you have the GPU's to keep up the #1 spot Granpa...that will still be a concern. Most POEM contributors rely on GPU's for their points. A lot don't waste time with the CPU work now that they have tasted the sweet life. POEM didn't have near the support it does now before the GPU app. I think a lot of people let their CPU's go to other projects while using the GPU's there. Even the ones that are heavily invested in POEM go mostly GPU's. So, time will tell...
 
Gilthanis said:
Unless you have the GPU's to keep up the #1 spot Granpa...that will still be a concern. Most POEM contributors rely on GPU's for their points. A lot don't waste time with the CPU work now that they have tasted the sweet life. POEM didn't have near the support it does now before the GPU app. I think a lot of people let their CPU's go to other projects while using the GPU's there. Even the ones that are heavily invested in POEM go mostly GPU's. So, time will tell...
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Well 3 - GTX680's are waiting for them to release the GPU WU's and I have 2 or 3 more GTX 580's I can throw into the mix if needed so should be able to do some damage there also :)
 
Grandpa_01 said:
Well 3 - GTX680's are waiting for them to release the GPU WU's and I have 2 or 3 more GTX 580's I can throw into the mix if needed so should be able to do some damage there also :)
Click to expand...

Now that is what I'm talking about. :eek:
 
I think we'll be able to maintain that spot then. Holy. Crap.

Edit: Non-profit details forthcoming, stay tuned!
 
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I think we'll need to have a quick once over for all the new GPU DCers on how to tweak the app_config.xml file to run multiple WUs on each card... I think my GTX680 was able to do 4 POEM at a time before the increase in production dropped of trying 5. And I want to say that was good for over 200K, so if the new WUs have the same point values, Grandpa's 3 680s should be worth at least 600K-700K ppd alone! :eek: Assuming they don't all disappear in a week then stay gone for a month or more.

And it looks like the current Seti@home beta WUs have been designed to run close to 100% GPU load - I ran a couple dozen by themselves, with the bulk finishing in 7:53 or 7:54... Running two at a time, five of the first eight finished in 15:21 - 15:40, or only a savings of 5-20 seconds. Two more minished in 15:01 and 15:05, so those were a bit better, and one was a fluke at 13 minutes! Not sure if it's really worth the trouble to mess with, so I'll leave it for know to get the small increase
 
You can have it if you want it. I think I wasted enough electricity trying to phone E.T.'s home. I only have a few devices ( I think my phones) that actually still visit there.
 
Well..I'm pretty well getting things switched to POGS and have Cosmology set to No New Tasks.
 
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